Singapore math myths

[Mommamia]

This article has me confused. Is this the Singapore math (primary Mathematics) that most people use? Edited October 8, 2012 by mom2littleboys

[Spy Car]

This article has me confused. Is this the Singapore math (primary Mathematics) that most people use?

 

When most people on this forum refer to "Singapore Math" they are referring to "Primary Mathematics." This "nick-name" does lead to some problems.

 

It is true than in the country of Singapore that Primary Mathematics (which was produced by the government's Ministry of Education) has been replaced with new programs from competing publishers. One of these, My Pals Are Here! has been adapted to the American market and renamed "Math in Focus."

 

Other new syllabus Singapore programs can be purchased from SGBox. There is debate over the old syllabus Primary Mathematics vs various new syllabus programs. SGbox does have a vested interest in the debate. I do not have an informed opinion of the new syllabus materials (as I ha e no first hand experience, but am a happy user of Primary Mathematics.

 

Bill

[boscopup]

The 2001 syllabus, yes. I don't think the new syllabus has a version marketed to homeschoolers yet. Math in Focus is available to us, but it has expensive teacher guides and is geared toward classroom use. The Primary Mathematics has Home Instructor Guides.

 

I hadn't heard people spouting many of those myths. I also doubt that elementary math has changed in the 21st century, so I'm not sure how the 2001 syllabus would be considered so outdated as to not be useable. I've seen plenty of US curricula come along that aren't any better than their predecessors. The new syllabus may or may not be better, but the old syllabus works great for plenty of homeschoolers, especially the Standards edition, which adds some topics that the US edition and 3rd edition didn't have. Other than those topics, I'd want to know what exactly the author of the article thinks is missing or antiquated from the old syllabus?

[Dmmetler]

I used the New Syllabus Primary Maths sold by SG Box after accidentally buying a lot on Ebay and my DD deciding she liked the NSPM books better-mostly, I think, because they were a little more "Singapory" and exotic. I would suggest supplementing for measurement and currency if you're using these in younger grades-my DD, having moved to the NSPM series at 3rd, ended up getting a crash course in NON-US currency conversions :), and now is very, very well versed in Metric.

 

Honestly, there's little difference other than those two topics and maybe a few things that were moved around for the US editions. I used the older CWP and IP books along with the NSPM books without trouble, and, starting at about 4A, bought the Primary Mathematics HIG because the NSPM teacher's editions were ridiculously expensive. I never have had any trouble aligning them, and in most cases, the topics are even in the same order.

Edited October 8, 2012 by dmmetler

[Crimson Wife]

Myth #8 is a common criticism of Singapore Math, and it is true that Asian schools separate out drill work from the conceptual work in the textbooks. Most HSers who use PM either add in the drill work themselves using other materials or else their kids don't need as much drill as the average student.

[Mommamia]

Thank you

[NittanyJen]

Wow. Their address of "Myth #5" is . . . just . . . wow. How not apropos of anything whatsoever. Moving on to "Myth #6" left me 'myth'-tefied. Was that an attempt at sarcasm on their part? Not to mention the snark of explaining that Singapore is a country:001_huh:

 

Moving along to myth#8 . . . geez . . . I know there are all different types of learners in the world, but they seemed like they were bragging about how hard it is for Singaporean kids to drill math through their thick skulls. I wonder what else those kids could learn if their parents and teachers gave them some credit?? Doing these books, PLUS outside tutoring PLUS extra worksheets, for the average and bright kids? We generally have to skip half or more of the problems in order to avoid going mad from overdoing it and doing unnecessary repetition from all the repetition in these books (and we use the US Edition, which from what I hear has less review than the Standards edition).

 

I could keep going, but with the kind of attitude displayed on that website, this is about the last company I am tempted to purchase anything from, ever. They seem to have a very, very condescending attitude at least toward their American customers.

[AEC]

I found this amusing....

 

"no longer contains the new and improved time-tested essence."

 

which is it...new and improved, or time-tested. You kind of cannot have both.

 

That's a pretty obnoxious website, honestly. What a snarky way to promote your product!

[kiwik]

Who has the author been hanging out with. No one we know. Anyone not know Singapore is a country?

[Alice]

I don’t think it’s an article as much as an ad for a curriculum that they are selling.

[angela in ohio]

Umm, I have known more than one homeschooler to believe #6 (don't worry, I hid this face :001_huh: to be polite.)

 

Number 8 is an interesting point, though. I have known waaayyy too many people who just buy the Singapore text/workbook set (or one or the other only,) hand it to their child, and think they will have math geniuses. :glare: It is helpful to understand the background of a program and how it was designed to be used.

 

But I agree, the article reads like the articles in TOS magazine. It's just an ad for what they are selling.

[Crimson Wife]

Anyone not know Singapore is a country?

 

We are doing World Geography this year because my 10 y.o. was positive Argentina was one of the 50 states. :banghead:

[boscopup]

You mean Singapore isn't the 52nd state? (Canada being the 51st) :lol:

[southernm]

I found this amusing....

 

"no longer contains the new and improved time-tested essence."

 

 

which is it...new and improved, or time-tested. You kind of cannot have both.

That's a pretty obnoxious website, honestly. What a snarky way to promote your product!

 

I don’t think it’s an article as much as an ad for a curriculum that they are selling.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Spy Car]

LOL

 

Years ago some guy tried to argue with me that there were 52 states in the US. He was absolutely certain. (He was at least not from the US.)

 

Well, counting Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia. Perhaps he is from the future? ;) :D

 

Bill

[Mommamia]

Yes, understood it was an ad for their product,but wondered if the myths were true :001_smile:

[melmichigan]

My sons math tutor teaches in India and would like us to move to the New Syllabus Primary Mathematics if possible with the next set of books we purchase, so I guess it isn't just in Singapore that schools are moving beyond the Primary Mathematics Series. The only problem is that it is very expensive to ship the newer series to the US, while the Primary Mathematics series can be purchased directly in the US.

Edited October 9, 2012 by melmichigan

[tagglelim]

So I'm curious then. Is Math in Focus considered a branch off of one of the updated, newer Singapore programs?

[boscopup]

My sons math tutor teaches in India and would like us to move to the New Syllabus Primary Mathematics if possible with the next set of books we purchase, so I guess it isn't just in Singapore that schools are moving beyond the Primary Mathematics Series. The only problem is that it is very expensive to ship the newer series to the US, while the Primary Mathematics series can be purchased directly in the US.

 

Perhaps it's harder for her to get the old syllabus there? I can understand wanting to have the same texts as your student.

[Spy Car]

So I'm curious then. Is Math in Focus considered a branch off of one of the updated, newer Singapore programs?

 

Yes, it is the US version of My Pals Are Here!

 

Bill

[boscopup]

Yes, understood it was an ad for their product,but wondered if the myths were true :001_smile:

 

I'll go myth by myth as far as my understanding goes (can't speak for anyone else):

 

Myth #1 - I've never heard anyone try to say there was only one. I knew about the old vs. new syllabus and the different versions of the old syllabus and the new syllabus, etc. All that info is here on this forum in various threads.

 

Myth #2 - I've never heard this either. On this forum, when people refer to "Singapore Math", they are usually talking about "Primary Math", either US or Standards version. But it's easier to say, "I use Singapore" than "I use Singapore Primary Mathematics Standards Edition, old syllabus." :tongue_smilie: It's not that I don't know there are other versions. It's that everyone HERE is pretty much talking about PM when they say "Singapore", and if they are using Math in Focus, they'll say "MiF" instead of "Singapore".

 

Myth #3 - I've never heard this either, and I don't really see the big difference between old and new syllabus. :confused:

 

Myth #4 - I really never had any opinion or knowledge about which text made Singapore famous. I certainly have no problem with the old syllabus not being "the one".

 

Myth #5 - When a homeschooler says the PM series is "time tested", that means it's been used successfully by homeschoolers for a long time, and they have gone on successfully to higher math. I think that is a valid thing to look at. We haven't had access to "new syllabus" materials, though I am sure they are just fine. From PP's, it sounds like the two aren't that different, and I'd be happy using either one. The reason I use the old syllabus is because of its availability to me as a homeschooler in the US. As I said in a previous post, elementary arithmetic hasn't changed. 2+2 is still 4. 3/5 of 10 is still 6. 75% of 28 is still 21. None of that has changed. PM works great for a large number of homeschooled kids, especially with the HIGs available, and those kids go on to prealgebra, algebra, geometry, and beyond with a good foundation in math. So yes, it is "time tested" in the homeschool community. The new syllabus is not "time tested" in the homeschool community because it hasn't been available to us with supportive materials geared toward homeschoolers. If the author of this article wants us to buy the new syllabus, he needs to make some HIGs that are reasonably priced like the old syllabus ones are. ;)

 

Myth #6 - I've never heard anyone say that. Most people know there are different publishers, and the books themselves have the publisher names on them. I would certainly HOPE that most homeschoolers know that Singapore is a country. If they don't, perhaps they need to outsource geography. :tongue_smilie:

 

Myth #7 - I've known people to be confused about the different versions, but people actually using Singapore math typically know about this. And I find it funny that he says that Singapore needed to rewrite everything to face the new challenges of the 21st century. :lol: Again, elementary math has not changed in the last 10-20 years. :tongue_smilie:

 

Myth #8 - I think this is a valid myth. A lot of homeschoolers probably don't realize that Singaporeans are drilling, drilling, drilling. I have an above-average-in-math kid, so he hasn't needed extra drill. Singapore has been plenty of problems for him. But I can see other kids needing more problems, and that is exactly why there are EP, IP, and CWP books, plus the mental math sheets in the HIG. Not to mention the gazillion tests scheduled in the HIG (which many here don't use). I think if you used the HIG exactly as written with tests, EP, and mental math as written, it'd probably be enough problems for most kids. If you expect an average or below average kid to "get it" just doing the workbook problems... may not happen. Many kids will probably also need more drill work. Some math programs build that in, and some don't. If your kid needs drill, add it in. There are plenty of free resources for it.

 

Myth #9 - I've never heard anyone say this either. The only new syllabus we have to compare to is Math in Focus, and most have said it's comparable to the main PM textbook/workbook. The problem is that MiF doesn't have anything comparable to the IP and CWP books that PM has. Not every kid needs those books though.

[melmichigan]

Perhaps it's harder for her to get the old syllabus there? I can understand wanting to have the same texts as your student.

 

My understanding is that the majority of changes are bringing the introduction of topics lower in the sequence, the only exception being with level 1. She is expecting DS to have an understanding of something that hasn't been introduced yet in the 3rd edition standard edition, which is very frustrating for him. In the end we might end up using 3rd edition and just having her let us know what the sequence would be for new syllabus because I'm not sure that I am willing to pay that much to have the newer books shipped to me, especially when we are almost done with the series.

Edited October 9, 2012 by melmichigan

[Spy Car]

I'm just bugged that "myth" is being used as a synonym for "falsehood" on a Classical Education forum. Egads! :D

 

Don Quixote

[Spy Car]

Double post

[boscopup]

I'm just bugged that "myth" is being used as a synonym for "falsehood" on a Classical Education forum. Egads! :D

 

I was using "myth" in the context the article used it: a false collective belief (see dictionary.com), though I don't think most of those are truly "myths", because I don't think they are typical collective beliefs at all. ;)

 

Did you look at the comparison chart of old syllabus vs. new syllabus? That made me laugh: http://www.sgbox.com/newsingaporemaths.html

 

#11 makes me wonder if the guy has ever seen the old syllabus. My grade 4 SE had tessellations. And #15 and 16 are talking about the "old generation" and the "new generation", as if the "new generation" can't possibly learn math the same way as the kids 20 years earlier. :confused: Frankly, if the problem is that the new generation can't learn math without an iPad, I'd prefer to keep my kids learning like the old generation. :tongue_smilie:

[Mommamia]

I'm just bugged that "myth" is being used as a synonym for "falsehood" on a Classical Education forum. Egads! :D

 

Don Quixote

 

:glare:

[Dmmetler]

Mel-check EBay. While I've had SGbox bookmarked, I never actually had to buy through them-I could always find sellers within the USA for the books/workbooks. I must say, though, I'm just as glad my DD has picked Fred for her next step-much easier to come by!

[melmichigan]

Mel-check EBay. While I've had SGbox bookmarked, I never actually had to buy through them-I could always find sellers within the USA for the books/workbooks. I must say, though, I'm just as glad my DD has picked Fred for her next step-much easier to come by!

 

Thanks! I will keep checking ebay. I thought it would be easier once we got DS a tutor, now he's finished another book in a month. :glare: I'll need every penny I can at this rate. :lol:

[Crimson Wife]

MiF doesn't have anything comparable to the IP and CWP books that PM has. Not every kid needs those books though.

 

MiF actually does have an "enrichment" book that is analogous to IP in that it is designed to challenge bright students. However, at least at the 4th level, it is significantly easier than IP. It does appear more challenging than the regular MiF problems, but it is missing the really hard "take the challenge" problems that IP includes.

[stripe]

Yes, understood it was an ad for their product,but wondered if the myths were true :001_smile:

 

I don't think #9 is a myth or a truth. It's an opinion.

Myth 9: The New Singapore Math is inferior to the Old Singapore Math

 

Most of the rest are clarifications of what books are being referred to.

 

Myth 6: Singapore is the name of the company that manufactures the Singapore Math books

Well, they are published in the US by a company called "Singapore Math"

 

It's true, though, that Singapore has changed its curriculum away from what's in the old books.

 

But this page is basically an ad.

[Arcadia]

I am used to people thinking Singapore is in China. It is a red dot on the world's atlas so I do not equate not knowing Singapore is a country as being bad at world geography.

 

Myth #5 - ... If the author of this article wants us to buy the new syllabus, he needs to make some HIGs that are reasonably priced like the old syllabus ones are. ;)

 

I think it might be an issue of copyright for making reasonably priced HIG.

 

Mathematics textbooks at the primary level (Gr 1-6) has teachers guides which all primary school mathematics teachers are issued with.

The new syllabus math books would have their accompanying teacher's guides which are probably still copyrighted.

 

And #15 and 16 are talking about the "old generation" and the "new generation", as if the "new generation" can't possibly learn math the same way as the kids 20 years earlier. :confused: Frankly, if the problem is that the new generation can't learn math without an iPad, I'd prefer to keep my kids learning like the old generation. :tongue_smilie:

 

Calculators are now allowed in Singapore classrooms for primary school mathematics. Back in the 80's when primary mathematics curriculum was launched, we survived the primary six exit exams for mathematics without the use of a calculator. In fact dictionaries were not allowed for Language Arts and World Language in the 80's. Now it is allowed.

 

There is plenty of drill in Singapore for all subjects, not just mathematics. It is a way of life and is common in other asian countries too.

[boscopup]

Calculators are now allowed in Singapore classrooms for primary school mathematics.

 

Yep, I'd rather stick with the "old generation" methods. My kids can learn elementary math without a calculator. I don't particularly want my kids to have to pull out their phone to use the calculator when determining the 15% tip at a restaurant. :glare:

[Crimson Wife]

Yep, I'd rather stick with the "old generation" methods. My kids can learn elementary math without a calculator. I don't particularly want my kids to have to pull out their phone to use the calculator when determining the 15% tip at a restaurant. :glare:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Discovering Mathematics has some sections on how to use a calculator (presumably to fit in with the post-2001 syllabus) and I just skip those. This is one of my "mean mom" things :tongue_smilie:

[stripe]

As I recall, SGBOX has outrageously high shipping costs to the US.

[Spy Car]

The pros of Primary Mathematics (assuming it fits the teaching/learning style of parents and students) include:

 

1) It is pretty inexpensive

 

2) It has great support for home education with the relatively low-cost HIGs

 

3) There is a support forum moderated by the author of the HIGs to help answer questions

 

4) There is a large community of users on this forum for support

 

5) It is a proven program that promotes strong math skills

 

6) It is very easy to customize by adding supplimentary books

 

I'd be surprised if any of the new syllabus programs were "bad." I'm sure they are all worthy options, but none has all the real-world advantages of Primary Mathematics at this juncture.

 

Bill

[melmichigan]

 

I think it might be an issue of copyright for making reasonably priced HIG.

 

 

The new syllabus math books would have their accompanying teacher's guides which are probably still under coyright.

 

This was what I was told in an email response to the question, TE's currently cannot be sold without a Singapore teaching license because of copyright.