If you dislike Dave Ramsey's approach

[Joanne]

Why is it that so many DR followers are so reluctant to consider the possibility that maybe his approach and advice are not suited to everyone who has debt? :confused:

 

Clearly, his ideas and theories and suggestions have helped thousands. I'm all for that.

 

But not every financial or debt situation responds to cookie-cutter, formulaic intervention. And maybe his advice is not suited for some demographics.

 

That doesn't discount his whole ministry; it just says that his ideas may not work for everyone.

 

There is NO WAY I could have or could, even now, use his ideas for my situation. I know I am not the only one.

[Donna A.]

You had things that you could pawn! So many people do not even have that.

 

That's right. We've sold nearly everything but the kitchen sink. And we never had a lot of *nice* stuff to begin with.... practically everything we own was bought used or given to us. Unlike DR, who himself filed bankruptcy after getting in over his head because HE HAD A LOT OF NICE STUFF. He didn't hit rock bottom because of his income being too low. He hit rock bottom because he made a lot of money and spent it on a lot of toys. I don't know if he's ever had a low income. (Too low to support a homeschooling SAHM and three kids, I mean.) I would also like to know how much help he had from family, friends, people he knew (networking, other ways to make money, etc.).

 

I have some curriculum or books I *could* sell, but I've already sold a lot. And selling curriculum here and there doesn't pay the mortgage, anyway. It helps you buy a few groceries to hold you over 'til payday, but it won't get you out of debt. And eventually you run out of curriculum (or whatever) to sell. At some point you have to stop selling because you NEED the stuff, or will in the near future. Right now I'm regretting selling some stuff I sold a year ago because I needed the money so badly at that time, and I don't have any money to re-buy it now. :confused:

 

Sometimes, even if you DO have something you sell, it doesn't make any sense to sell it. One of the stupidest decisions we ever made was to sell dh's GOOD, reliable car that was paid for in order to get enough cash to start that coveted $1000 emergency fund that DR says will save your butt if you have an emergency. Well guess what. Less than three months later the EF was gone, the car was gone, and we still didn't have any extra income. :glare: Nothing left to sell that would net us another $1k EF, so now what? We had to rely on credit cards for the next emergency. We didn't have anybody we could go to for help in an emergency, and at approximately $35k income for a family of five, he made too much to get any kind of assistance.

 

Now dh is driving a beater that leaks oil, had to have new tires, and probably won't pass annual safety inspection in order to get new tags... which means more $$ out the window. We would've been better off to keep the good car and forget about the EF. :glare:

 

(A few years have passed since we sold the good car, and other decisions have been made. I'm just pointing out that sometimes selling stuff is NOT the answer, and using that as ONE example of how following DR's advice was a BAD decision in OUR situation. You can't paint with a broad brush and say "get another job" or "sell something" works for everybody.)

 

Bottom line is that DR's advice is for people who HAVE resources (like he did). By "resources" I mean either:

 

-- current income that's just being mismanaged (which was DR's scenario);

 

-- gov't assistance (if one even qualifies for it);

 

-- a way to earn extra income without neglecting your children (different families, different needs -- no grandparent/relative to step in, cost of child care, cost of transportation, meals, etc. involved in getting another job);

 

-- help/support from relatives or other people you know;

 

-- stuff to sell (that you don't actually need to keep);

 

-- cheaper place to move to that wouldn't triple your commuting costs (or put you in a lower COL place that decreases your income right along with the decreased COL)... Generally, the closer one moves to their work place, the higher the rent, particularly in a large metro area. If one moves farther out where the rent is cheaper, then one has increased transportation (and other) expenses. So all of that has to be taken into consideration.

 

If you don't have any resources to get started, then DR's advice won't work. Period.

[Joanne]

That's right. We've sold nearly everything but the kitchen sink. And we never had a lot of *nice* stuff to begin with.... practically everything we own was bought used or given to us. Unlike DR, who himself filed bankruptcy after getting in over his head because HE HAD A LOT OF NICE STUFF. He didn't hit rock bottom because of his income being too low. He hit rock bottom because he made a lot of money and spent it on a lot of toys. I don't know if he's ever had a low income. (Too low to support a homeschooling SAHM and three kids, I mean.) I would also like to know how much help he had from family, friends, people he knew (networking, other ways to make money, etc.).

 

I have some curriculum or books I *could* sell, but I've already sold a lot. And selling curriculum here and there doesn't pay the mortgage, anyway. It helps you buy a few groceries to hold you over 'til payday, but it won't get you out of debt. And eventually you run out of curriculum (or whatever) to sell. At some point you have to stop selling because you NEED the stuff, or will in the near future. Right now I'm regretting selling some stuff I sold a year ago because I needed the money so badly at that time, and I don't have any money to re-buy it now. :confused:

 

Sometimes, even if you DO have something you sell, it doesn't make any sense to sell it. One of the stupidest decisions we ever made was to sell dh's GOOD, reliable car that was paid for in order to get enough cash to start that coveted $1000 emergency fund that DR says will save your butt if you have an emergency. Well guess what. Less than three months later the EF was gone, the car was gone, and we still didn't have any extra income. :glare: Nothing left to sell that would net us another $1k EF, so now what? We had to rely on credit cards for the next emergency. We didn't have anybody we could go to for help in an emergency, and at approximately $35k income for a family of five, he made too much to get any kind of assistance.

 

Now dh is driving a beater that leaks oil, had to have new tires, and probably won't pass annual safety inspection in order to get new tags... which means more $$ out the window. We would've been better off to keep the good car and forget about the EF. :glare:

 

(A few years have passed since we sold the good car, and other decisions have been made. I'm just pointing out that sometimes selling stuff is NOT the answer, and using that as ONE example of how following DR's advice was a BAD decision in OUR situation. You can't paint with a broad brush and say "get another job" or "sell something" works for everybody.)

 

Bottom line is that DR's advice is for people who HAVE resources (like he did). By "resources" I mean either:

 

-- current income that's just being mismanaged (which was DR's scenario);

 

-- gov't assistance (if one even qualifies for it);

 

-- a way to earn extra income without neglecting your children (different families, different needs -- no grandparent/relative to step in, cost of child care, cost of transportation, meals, etc. involved in getting another job);

 

-- help/support from relatives or other people you know;

 

-- stuff to sell (that you don't actually need to keep);

 

-- cheaper place to move to that wouldn't triple your commuting costs (or put you in a lower COL place that decreases your income right along with the decreased COL)... Generally, the closer one moves to their work place, the higher the rent, particularly in a large metro area. If one moves farther out where the rent is cheaper, then one has increased transportation (and other) expenses. So all of that has to be taken into consideration.

 

If you don't have any resources to get started, then DR's advice won't work. Period.

 

:grouphug::iagree::grouphug::iagree:

 

Thank you.

[mommaduck]

 

Bottom line is that DR's advice is for people who HAVE resources (like he did). By "resources" I mean either:

 

-- current income that's just being mismanaged (which was DR's scenario);

 

-- gov't assistance (if one even qualifies for it);

 

-- a way to earn extra income without neglecting your children (different families, different needs -- no grandparent/relative to step in, cost of child care, cost of transportation, meals, etc. involved in getting another job);

 

-- help/support from relatives or other people you know;

 

-- stuff to sell (that you don't actually need to keep);

 

-- cheaper place to move to that wouldn't triple your commuting costs (or put you in a lower COL place that decreases your income right along with the decreased COL)... Generally, the closer one moves to their work place, the higher the rent, particularly in a large metro area. If one moves farther out where the rent is cheaper, then one has increased transportation (and other) expenses. So all of that has to be taken into consideration.

 

If you don't have any resources to get started, then DR's advice won't work. Period.

Exactly! And I believe this is what many people still do not realise. They really believe that everyone some or all of these resources.

[Munchkins_mama]

 

 

 

Yes, it is perfectly LEGAL to walk away from most debts after the statute of limitations has expired. In my state that is 7 years from the last payment made. Some states are as little as 4 years. If your statute of limitations is 7 years, and you are 6.5 years in and then make a payment, you start the whole 7 years over again. You'll still get the occasional phone call, but just reply that the statute of limitations has expired on that debt and you are no longer legally liable for it. It should drop off your credit report at that time as well.

 

This doesn't apply to federal student loans fwiw.

 

 

WTH?? Really?? ( Am I getting sucked in to some weird troll-y kind of thing that everyone else knows better than to touch? Why is this not horrifying to everyone?)

[Impish]

You had things that you could pawn! So many people do not even have that.

:iagree:When I was a single mom, I had *nothing* that was worth *anything*. The one thing I did have, a diamond engagement ring, was gone for $50 when I didn't get child support payments one month. I had no electronics, no computer, no appliances, the only tv I had was a hulking floor model in a cabinet from the 60/70s era.

 

Other than my body, there was nothing to sell. And no, I didn't sell my body.

[mommaduck]

:iagree:When I was a single mom, I had *nothing* that was worth *anything*. The one thing I did have, a diamond engagement ring, was gone for $50 when I didn't get child support payments one month. I had no electronics, no computer, no appliances, the only tv I had was a hulking floor model in a cabinet from the 60/70s era.

 

Other than my body, there was nothing to sell. And no, I didn't sell my body.

We got $90 for four gold and diamond rings. My husband still regrets letting them go for that. But we were trying to pay a bill.

[lovinmomma]

Honestly, when ppl talk about 'trimming' the budget, ala Dave Ramsey, or any other financial guru, it can make my stomach churn.

 

I remember when I first picked up Dave Ramsey materials (for free, via airmiles bookstore gc) so excited to have that 'light go on' that would get us to FINALLY understand where we were going wrong.

 

Where we were going wrong was we were broke. There was no 'entertainment'. Clothing allowance? HA! Clothing allowance was when we shorted a utility bill to get a kid new shoes.

 

When you're robbing utility bills to buy the kids new shoes, or gas to get to work, there's no 'plan' in the universe that's going to fix that.

 

Now that we have a savings acct, we *do* have things to trim, we're going back to what Wolf calls 'deprevation diet' to make that savings stretch.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: I love it when people try to tell me how to make some "wiggle room" in my budget. Bahaha! Uhhh... It's called I can't even afford basic living expenses. lol There is no "savings". Get another job? Hmmm... so how does that makes sense when I will spend more $ paying for childcare than I will make doing said job? :confused: Now, the only thing that I can see with this is going back to school to get a higher paying job, BUT who is going to watch my kids while I do that and pay my bills while I do that. I even looked at getting my CNA... $700 that I DON'T have. I. Simply. Don't. Have. It. Public welfare should really look at enriching and coming along side families to help them come out of this dark hole instead. I would much rather have help getting to a higher paying job that would help me to not NEED others.

[lovinmomma]

:iagree:When I was a single mom, I had *nothing* that was worth *anything*. The one thing I did have, a diamond engagement ring, was gone for $50 when I didn't get child support payments one month. I had no electronics, no computer, no appliances, the only tv I had was a hulking floor model in a cabinet from the 60/70s era.

 

Other than my body, there was nothing to sell. And no, I didn't sell my body.

 

Yep. I've already sold everything. My computer is owned by my boss. Same with my phone. I sold my wedding ring, which, I did get a good amount of $ for but now that's gone. I've called CSE who knows how many times...too many... and have yet to even get 1!!! returned call. I even talked to a manager. Bleh.

[Scarlett]

Why is it that so many DR followers are so reluctant to consider the possibility that maybe his approach and advice are not suited to everyone who has debt? :confused:

 

Clearly, his ideas and theories and suggestions have helped thousands. I'm all for that.

 

But not every financial or debt situation responds to cookie-cutter, formulaic intervention. And maybe his advice is not suited for some demographics.

 

That doesn't discount his whole ministry; it just says that his ideas may not work for everyone.

 

There is NO WAY I could have or could, even now, use his ideas for my situation. I know I am not the only one.

 

Well, I am not a rabid DR follower AT ALL....and I don't think every situation can be solved by following his plan---NEITHER DOES HE. That is what I can't wrap my head around....the situations that are being described here can't be fixed by any 'financial plan', so why pick on DR as being unrealistic.

 

Sometimes, even if you DO have something you sell, it doesn't make any sense to sell it. One of the stupidest decisions we ever made was to sell dh's GOOD, reliable car that was paid for in order to get enough cash to start that coveted $1000 emergency fund that DR says will save your butt if you have an emergency. Well guess what. Less than three months later the EF was gone, the car was gone, and we still didn't have any extra income. :glare: Nothing left to sell that would net us another $1k EF, so now what? We had to rely on credit cards for the next emergency. We didn't have anybody we could go to for help in an emergency, and at approximately $35k income for a family of five, he made too much to get any kind of assistance.

 

Now dh is driving a beater that leaks oil, had to have new tires, and probably won't pass annual safety inspection in order to get new tags... which means more $$ out the window. We would've been better off to keep the good car and forget about the EF. :glare:

 

(A few years have passed since we sold the good car, and other decisions have been made. I'm just pointing out that sometimes selling stuff is NOT the answer, and using that as ONE example of how following DR's advice was a BAD decision in OUR situation. You can't paint with a broad brush and say "get another job" or "sell something" works for everybody.)

.

 

I have never heard DR recommend selling a paid for car (that was being used) in order to start the emergency fund. I believe you misunderstood his advice or got hung up on trying to start an emergency fund when you didn't have the means to do so.

 

This is why I keep talking on this thread....I feel like DR is getting 'blamed' for bad advice he never gave, or for desperate situations that a plan (his or any other) can't solve. I have even heard him tell a guy to file bancruptcy.

[Joanne]

:iagree:When I was a single mom, I had *nothing* that was worth *anything*. The one thing I did have, a diamond engagement ring, was gone for $50 when I didn't get child support payments one month. I had no electronics, no computer, no appliances, the only tv I had was a hulking floor model in a cabinet from the 60/70s era.

 

Other than my body, there was nothing to sell. And no, I didn't sell my body.

 

When I was a single mom, and then into my 2nd marriage, I sold:

 

All unused curriculum.

My vintage (not reproduction) Coca Cola collection.

My wedding ring/engagement ring

"real" jewelry

electronics

 

My DH sold his motorcycle

My DH sold his "anniversary" Harley Davidson leather coat

 

We used the funds for utilities and groceries.

 

If I had offers, I might have sold my body.

[Scarlett]

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

[Joanne]

WTH?? Really?? ( Am I getting sucked in to some weird troll-y kind of thing that everyone else knows better than to touch? Why is this not horrifying to everyone?)

 

No. You're not. Have you ever *experienced* an excess of $100K in medical bills? (And the accompanying life that goes with those type of bills?)

 

I am likely to default on a signficant number of them. I will *never* be able to repay them and have money for when I am not able to work anymore. I am 46 and broke. I can not pay my husband's medical bills. You can be sure that I am not going to pay ones that are older than 7 years.

[lovinmomma]

 

If I had offers, I might have sold my body.

 

:lol: I've thought after having been through this past couple of years that I can now see why some women **believe** that stripping is the only way. I don't agree, but I now have some sort of understanding on how they got to where they got...some of them. They want to put food in their babies bellies and they don't want to live in a homeless shelter.

[Scarlett]

No. You're not. Have you ever *experienced* an excess of $100K in medical bills? (And the accompanying life that goes with those type of bills?)

 

I am likely to default on a signficant number of them. I will *never* be able to repay them and have money for when I am not able to work anymore. I am 46 and broke. I can not pay my husband's medical bills. You can be sure that I am not going to pay ones that are older than 7 years.

 

:grouphug: And no one on the planet should expect you to! There is only so much one person can do.

[Joanne]

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

 

I don't know how your mom did it. But it's probably not comparible to today in any valid way.

[lovinmomma]

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

 

That's a very good question seeing as how that is less than what 1 semester of college would cost now and that isn't even including your monthly bills.

 

P.s. I actually like Dave Ramsey. I just can't use his advice right now. Right now it's just about survival. :)

[momma2three]

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

 

Housing and college costs were SIGNIFICANTLY less compared to incomes, even relatively low incomes. It was very possible to work your way through a dress program back then.

[Scarlett]

I don't know how your mom did it. But it's probably not comparible to today in any valid way.

 

Well, it was hard I can tell you that. But we never went without food, we never had a utility shut off ever...and she had no family to help either. We did have a loving congregation but none of them were well off either so it isn't like they were supporting us financially. I can still remember that notebook with the bills for the month listed down the page. It is how I still pay my own bills.

 

She had overwhelming medical bills too....Not as significant as yours, but a lot...she had cancer when she was 30 and what insurance didn't pay may as well been a million because she couldn't pay it...she DID pay it off $25 a month for YEARS...

 

I KNOW there are situations that are beyond solving....but for instance my brother....he is on disability and I know what his bills are. I know what he spends money on.....and so when he tells me how rough a time he is having....I give him a DR book. And then when he tells me 'oh that is for people who have money already.' but he hasn't actually READ it or tried to apply the steps.

 

I am rambling now and probably insulting a whole bunch more people so I will shut up.

[Impish]

 

If I had offers, I might have sold my body.

It wasn't the illegality that stopped me. It was the inherent danger, and what could happen to my kids if I was attacked/arrested/went missing.

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

I have no idea. Honestly.

 

I went back to college as a single mom. Student loans.

 

Even still, working and paying for child care was a terrifying experience. I could barely afford the child care, but if I lost my sitter, we'd be totally hooped. Even when Wolf and I were first married, and I was working, my sitter made more money than I did. Literally. She would get $300 of my pay, I'd get $200 left over.

 

It's a truly nauseating experience.

[Munchkins_mama]

No. You're not. Have you ever *experienced* an excess of $100K in medical bills? (And the accompanying life that goes with those type of bills?)

 

I am likely to default on a signficant number of them. I will *never* be able to repay them and have money for when I am not able to work anymore. I am 46 and broke. I can not pay my husband's medical bills. You can be sure that I am not going to pay ones that are older than 7 years.

 

Joann, I have not experienced that. We have been incredibly fortunate to have a good income and not a lot of debts. What is killing me is that you can wipe out credit card debt too? Where is the accountability? That tells me that I could go finance whatever I wanted, and if I avoid the collectors long enough, then I own my stuff free and clear without every having to pay it. :confused:

 

I'm sure there are many instances where it is needed to wipe out massive medical debt ( and I thank God every day that we are healthy!) I know the rate of medical bankruptcy is through the roof. I'm not really talking about medical here.

[lovinmomma]

It wasn't the illegality that stopped me. It was the inherent danger, and what could happen to my kids if I was attacked/arrested/went missing.

 

I have no idea. Honestly.

 

I went back to college as a single mom. Student loans.

 

Even still, working and paying for child care was a terrifying experience. I could barely afford the child care, but if I lost my sitter, we'd be totally hooped. Even when Wolf and I were first married, and I was working, my sitter made more money than I did. Literally. She would get $300 of my pay, I'd get $200 left over.

 

It's a truly nauseating experience.

 

Gah! I understand. :grouphug: I'm glad to know you came out on the other side of it. :)

[Joanne]

Joann, I have not experienced that. We have been incredibly fortunate to have a good income and not a lot of debts. What is killing me is that you can wipe out credit card debt too? Where is the accountability? That tells me that I could go finance whatever I wanted, and if I avoid the collectors long enough, then I own my stuff free and clear without every having to pay it. :confused:

 

I'm sure there are many instances where it is needed to wipe out massive medical debt ( and I thank God every day that we are healthy!) I know the rate of medical bankruptcy is through the roof. I'm not really talking about medical here.

 

I personally tend to not have as much empathy OR sympathy on CC debt to that degree and length. I am less inclined to assume it was consumerism than I used to be, though, having changed my assumption-meter due to lived experience.

[LittleIzumi]

When we had two incomes, we did the debt snowball. Now hubby is working full-time and in school full-time, and I wouldn't make more than $50 over childcare costs if I tried to work at the same time--and after the beautiful baby-to-be comes, I would be paying to work! Now we're back to the "what clothing allowance?!" group until he finishes school, and that's just how it has to be. Nothing he says will really help us where we are at the moment. I feel blessed that we are at least on a track out hopefully with the degrees, and for now I'm going to pull out my Tightwad Gazette again, lol.

[stansclan89]

No. You're not. Have you ever *experienced* an excess of $100K in medical bills? (And the accompanying life that goes with those type of bills?)

 

I am likely to default on a signficant number of them. I will *never* be able to repay them and have money for when I am not able to work anymore. I am 46 and broke. I can not pay my husband's medical bills. You can be sure that I am not going to pay ones that are older than 7 years.

 

This is what medical bankruptcy was made for.

[PineFarmMom]

I think he is totally unrealistic in recommending spending no more than 1.5x salary for housing these days. Yeah, I'd kind of prefer living in a neighborhood where I don't have to worry about getting accidentally hit in a drive-by shooting :glare:

 

:lol: This!!

 

And I agree with the fact that he is unrealistic. We are doing the teen program for this school year, so we shall see. I just think there is more to life than beans and rice and rice and beans, especially when there are years with my children who have lives and opportunities that can never come again. I can't put them on pause until we have everything lined up correctly.

[TravelingChris]

I just tried his online budget. He doesn't like how much we pay for utilities. I don't either but don't see a way to get it less. When we moved in here last year, our water, electric, gas, trash and sewer were around 400-500 each month. They did increases and now it is in the high 600 to 700's. Then I added cell phones, our bundled phone, internet and cable and we get about 10% of our income. On the other hand, we pay only about 20% of our income for housing and much less than 10% for transportation. He also doesn;t like having money left over- out of your budget- I do. I never know when we anyone needs something or other = school expenses, car repair, etc.

[I.Dup.]

DP

Edited October 1, 2012 by blessedwinter

[I.Dup.]

Joann, I have not experienced that. We have been incredibly fortunate to have a good income and not a lot of debts. What is killing me is that you can wipe out credit card debt too? Where is the accountability? That tells me that I could go finance whatever I wanted, and if I avoid the collectors long enough, then I own my stuff free and clear without every having to pay it. :confused:

 

I'm sure there are many instances where it is needed to wipe out massive medical debt ( and I thank God every day that we are healthy!) I know the rate of medical bankruptcy is through the roof. I'm not really talking about medical here.

 

The above quote about not paying for 7 years was not horrifying to me because I know the process. It is not "free and clear" as you reference. We had to foreclose about 6 years ago now, when dh lost his job. It has been a nightmare ever since, because of what it did to our credit. We were lucky to find a place to give us a car loan, and we have had to rent ever since, and most likely will for the next couple years. That is 10 years of our life we have had to pay for that. But you can bet we're not going to start making payments on a house across the country that someone else lives in now. :confused:

[Donna A.]

Well, I am not a rabid DR follower AT ALL....and I don't think every situation can be solved by following his plan---NEITHER DOES HE. That is what I can't wrap my head around....the situations that are being described here can't be fixed by any 'financial plan', so why pick on DR as being unrealistic.

 

Because that was the topic of the thread. :D The OP asked specifically "If you dislike DR's approach.... and WHY." We're trying to explain why. ;)

 

 

I have never heard DR recommend selling a paid for car (that was being used) in order to start the emergency fund. I believe you misunderstood his advice or got hung up on trying to start an emergency fund when you didn't have the means to do so.

He says to do whatever you gotta' do, even if it means selling something. He also says to do with it "gazelle intensity".

[Mrs Mungo]

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

 

I put myself through college 20 years ago. Minimum wage was $3.35/hour. I around worked 50 hours/week (two jobs). So, I made around $650/month. My first semester of college cost around $800 for 12 credit hours and about $100 or so in books. Minimum wage now is $7.25/hour. So, you'd make roughly $1,450/month working 50 hours, a bit more than double twenty years ago. A semester of in-state tuition with at my alma mater, on the other hand? Is estimated at costing almost $10k, that's without room and board (which, is now required for college freshmen). That is *over ten times* as much. Plus, it's harder to qualify for help than it was then.

 

That's what's different now.

[elegantlion]

Well, it was hard I can tell you that. But we never went without food, we never had a utility shut off ever...and she had no family to help either. We did have a loving congregation but none of them were well off either so it isn't like they were supporting us financially. I can still remember that notebook with the bills for the month listed down the page. It is how I still pay my own bills.

 

She had overwhelming medical bills too....Not as significant as yours, but a lot...she had cancer when she was 30 and what insurance didn't pay may as well been a million because she couldn't pay it...she DID pay it off $25 a month for YEARS...

 

I KNOW there are situations that are beyond solving....but for instance my brother....he is on disability and I know what his bills are. I know what he spends money on.....and so when he tells me how rough a time he is having....I give him a DR book. And then when he tells me 'oh that is for people who have money already.' but he hasn't actually READ it or tried to apply the steps.

 

I am rambling now and probably insulting a whole bunch more people so I will shut up.

 

30 years ago I think more companies dealt compassionately with hardships. Having had to call more than one utility company to defer payment, I can say those with a more old-fashioned feel are much easier to deal with.

 

Our large gas company, which covers a huge metropolitan area, is a pain the butt. They are crass, unsympathetic, argumentative, and hopelessly devoid of any human emotion. We have our gas turned off in the summer, just so we don't have to deal with them.

 

30 years ago housing and utilities and school costs were not as a huge percentage of overall expenses as they are today. 30 years ago things were built to last, not to be replaced. How many of us grew up with washer and dryers and kitchen appliances that were years old? Now quality is not part of the new appliance. They are built to last a certain time and that's it. Our washer/dryer was an original Whirlpool Duet. We've had them for over 12 years with no issue. A repairman my parents talked to said they were built with German circuitry. The newer models were built with lesser quality parts and he wouldn't even recommend them.

 

Food is more expensive, there is less sense of community in most places. Food banks are stretched to the max, people are qualifying for government aid even with full time jobs.

 

I know what my dad's salary was when we were kids. I don't know how we made it on so little and had a decent middle class suburban life.

[Lovedtodeath]

Exactly! And I believe this is what many people still do not realise. They really believe that everyone some or all of these resources.

YES. this.

[Jerico]

I like a lot of dave ramsey's stuff but there is a lot I don't like about it. I kinda do the parts I like :) I have heard good things about crown financial but haven't used it.

[Jerico]

It does seem like a lot has changed. My husband's grandmother got really burned when she was a little girl. Her parents paid off the medical bills until she was 18 years old! Why can't places now allow people to take longer to pay it off? We have a bit of medical debt- after every birth, surgery, and ER visit. I always call and get on the payment plan. Right now the baby will be over 2 by the time we pay off the hospital bill from his birth.

[Lovedtodeath]

I personally tend to not have as much empathy OR sympathy on CC debt to that degree and length. I am less inclined to assume it was consumerism than I used to be, though, having changed my assumption-meter due to lived experience.

We have used credit cards to pay for medicine, doctor's visits, groceries and gas... so yeah

[Leonana]

Joann, I have not experienced that. We have been incredibly fortunate to have a good income and not a lot of debts. What is killing me is that you can wipe out credit card debt too? Where is the accountability? That tells me that I could go finance whatever I wanted, and if I avoid the collectors long enough, then I own my stuff free and clear without every having to pay it. :confused:

 

I'm sure there are many instances where it is needed to wipe out massive medical debt ( and I thank God every day that we are healthy!) I know the rate of medical bankruptcy is through the roof. I'm not really talking about medical here.

 

I believe the number one reason for bankruptcy in the U.S. is for medical bills.

 

We didn't pay on our unsecured debt for a few months, because dh was out of work. I don't know how someone can go seven years without paying, because most cc companies will file a judgment and garnish your wages.

 

When dh started working again, he made enough money for us to pay it off. It had gone to collections, so we settled, and paid a little less than we owed. It was about $10,000 total. Not huge, but when you have no extra money, it might as well be a million.

 

However, I don't know that you get away scot free. It ruins your credit. I hear stories of my friends re-financing their homes at really low rates, however we cannot do that. Even though my dh wasn't working due to the actions of the banks and Wall Street. :rolleyes:

[Wheres Toto]

I have a sincere question....how did my mom raise two kids with no help (financial or otherwise) from our dad, go back to college and get her teaching degree and come out of college with only about 1200 in debt? (granted that was 30 years ago, but even then it wasn't much debt).

 

People here are acting like it is impossible....like no one can understand. I really wonder what made her situation doable....

 

My mother raised two kids without even a high school diploma, gradually got her GED, then a few college courses. How she did it?

 

Welfare, foodstamps and other public assistance. There was a program in the 70's that allowed welfare recipients to work for their GED and take training programs. It was a big program but I don't remember what it was called. It's gone now.

No car or total junker that was unsafe to drive so was only used when absolutely essential (I remember an old VW bug that smelled like pot and was missing most of the floor). We lived close enough to walk to grocery stores, etc. and she walked/bussed to work.

She had a crap job that never allowed her to take off if one of us were sick, with bosses who took advantage of the fact that she needed the job.

We lived in an apartment complex that allowed her to pay the rent in two payments (one on time, and one 2 weeks later). Utilities were included but we usually didn't have heat to the point of ice forming in the toilet in winter.

We were alone after school and in the summer from a fairly young age.

We spent weekends with my paternal grandparents and I know my mother was very very grateful for them. We also took any vacations with them.

I never went on vacation with my mother as a child, never went out to eat, never had 5 cents for the gumball machine. I saw one movie with her my entire childhood.

We didn't have tv until I was a teenager and then it was black and white (and I'm not that old).

She stretched every bit of food as much as possible and was a whiz at making things last.

 

Many of the things she did wouldn't work for every one (she was relatively young, healthy, and lucky), and many of them wouldn't be available these days at all.

[Joanne]

My mother raised two kids without even a high school diploma, gradually got her GED, then a few college courses. How she did it?

 

Welfare, foodstamps and other public assistance. There was a program in the 70's that allowed welfare recipients to work for their GED and take training programs. It was a big program but I don't remember what it was called. It's gone now.

No car or total junker that was unsafe to drive so was only used when absolutely essential (I remember an old VW bug that smelled like pot and was missing most of the floor). We lived close enough to walk to grocery stores, etc. and she walked/bussed to work.

She had a crap job that never allowed her to take off if one of us were sick, with bosses who took advantage of the fact that she needed the job.

We lived in an apartment complex that allowed her to pay the rent in two payments (one on time, and one 2 weeks later). Utilities were included but we usually didn't have heat to the point of ice forming in the toilet in winter.

We were alone after school and in the summer from a fairly young age.

We spent weekends with my paternal grandparents and I know my mother was very very grateful for them. We also took any vacations with them.

I never went on vacation with my mother as a child, never went out to eat, never had 5 cents for the gumball machine. I saw one movie with her my entire childhood.

We didn't have tv until I was a teenager and then it was black and white (and I'm not that old).

She stretched every bit of food as much as possible and was a whiz at making things last.

 

Many of the things she did wouldn't work for every one (she was relatively young, healthy, and lucky), and many of them wouldn't be available these days at all.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: