How do you get your child to understand the expense of college?

[Peggy in Ks]

We would like our dd to go to the community college for 2 years and then transfer to the university. She went to visit the university yesterday, talked to the students, and really felt what the atmosphere would be like there and really enjoyed it.

We arent' going to be able to help her pay for college unless it's minimal help with community college classes. I'm not sure how to phrase this...how can I make her comphrehend how much money she will have to pay back when she's done with school? Assuming she doens't get scholarships, which I'm doubting she will. She's an average student.

My parents wanted me to go to cc first, but I didn't take their advice and had big student loans to pay back.

Do we tell her she has to go to cc first, or do we let her make the choice?

Thanks

Peggy

[Hikin' Mama]

I don't yet have college aged kids, so my experience is nil. :)

 

I would get the fees for both schools, add everything up, then subtract whatever you will be able to give her. Show her in writing how much more it will cost her and what her payments will be when she is done. Have her research how much she will be able to make right out of college.

 

After that, I would let her make her own decision, especially if she will be paying for most of her own education. She will be an adult, albeit a young inexperienced one, but I think they need to be making their own decisions at this point, especially if they are paying for them. If I were paying, however, I would say, "Here's how much I'm going to spend. If you want more, you'll have to figure that out." And then I'd still let her make the decision.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Kim

[Chris in VA]

We are going thru this now, too. Ds will take a few college courses next year as a dual-enrolled student (homeschool and college), which we will pay for, so that will help a little, but we have very little saved to help with a 4 year school.

 

I think I am simply going to have him work up a "pretend budget" (there's gotta be a better word for that! lol) where he researches the job possiblities and salaries, the cost of living in several areas, and things like, insurance and car expenses. I want him to really get a handle on how much he will need to make in order to have enough $ to pay off loans and just live!

 

Teaching about compound interest and credit debt is important, too. I know Larry Burkett's organization has a few little books on Getting Your First Credit Card and Renting Your First Apartment. These will be helpful for ds to learn how to budget.

 

Sallie Mae has an excellent book I am reading now called How to Pay For College. If you go to their website, you can see the process of how they determine financial aid eligibility. They can show you how much you can expect in aid, and how much you will be expected to contribute. Just having those numbers can be a wake up call to both parents and child.

 

Also, are you doing everything you can to lessen the cost of college? You mentioned CC, which is a great way to save. Could she study for a CLEP exam or two? Can she choose in-state vs out-of-state or private college (although you should definitely not close the door on private colleges, as they can sometimes offer a lot of help financially)? Would she qualify for work-study, or be interested in a co-op college? Can she work now and save?

 

In the end, tho', it is a decision made as a family, but she will have to live with the consequences. You cannot stop her getting a loan. Pls keep us in the loop--I'd love to hear how you resolve this.

[Bev in B'ville]

My parents could not afford to send me to college at all. I struggled for a couple of years, working full-time, going to college at night every other quarter because that's all I could afford to do.

 

Then, I found out if I joined the Reserve (Army for me, but any branch will do), they would pay my tuition for me. So, for one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer I played army. They paid my tuition. Then I was still working fulltime, but able to take a full course load at night. I also took out a small loan to cover textbooks, but that loan was much more manageable.

 

One other tidbit I found out about later was when I got a job as a lab assistant to one of the professors. I not only got paid for doing it (minimum wage for 12 hours/week), but that job included tuition reimbursement as well.

 

So, your dd has several options available to her. She needs only to research it. Scholarships are not the only way to get tuition. Some corporations these days also offer course compensation. Have her do some legwork and research it for herself. If she's mature enough to attend college, then she's mature enough to deal with this herself. The fact that you're willing to pay for any college is something she should be eternally grateful for (and probably will be twenty years from now). :)

 

HTH.

Bev

[Anna]

::: :confused: how can I make her comphrehend how much money she will have to pay back when she's done with school? Assuming she doens't get scholarships, which I'm doubting she will. She's an average student.

My parents wanted me to go to cc first, but I didn't take their advice and had big student loans to pay back.

 

Do the math with her for both case scenarios-- student loans for 2yrs cc/2 yrs university vs. 4 years of univ. Explain to her how much she'd be paying back each month in both cases.

 

Btw------ Don't assume they'll be no scholarships. Academic ones aren't the only kind out there. Oldest dd received scholarship money for academic performance and even one scholarship for being Asian, go figure. Dd's doing it all at 4-yr univ with 3/4 scholarship, very little financial aid and her student loan is only $15,000., which her father and I think is small enough for her to be able to pay it back. There are many types of scholarships out there. If your big toe is shorter than your second toe you can get a scholarship (jk).. but you get my point. Do your homework.

 

::: :confused: Do we tell her she has to go to cc first, or do we let her make the choice?

 

If she's paying her way, it needs to be her choice but if Mom and Dad are paying, you have more say. Either way she needs help deciding. I am not of the opinion like most colleges tell us that "your kids are adults now". Excuse me???? When my kids are totally supporting themselves, THEN they are adults. As long as Mom and Dad are still putting out money and advice to help them through college, they're still kids trying to become adults.

 

Your dd needs to live with the choices made for the finance of her college. Work with her to find a doable plan to pay for college. Others may disagree with me but I don't think a 17-19yo has enough knowledge to figure all that out on their own. If you and dh can't pay anything, then let her know, don't pay anything and don't feel guilty about it. If you and dd have a 4-yr univ picked out but you clearly know that she can't afford to study there for 4 yrs, just show her the numbers on paper and explain it to her. Don't let her sign up for 4-yr univ and then you and dh feel obligated to pick up the tab because she can't afford it. That's where you point her to cc for her first 2 years.

 

My oldest.. 2nd semester univ... had to choose between larger state univ with full tuition and smaller private Catholic college with 3/4 tuition. We knew she'd thrive best in smaller college. We did the math with her and saw that private college would mean less money "out of pocket" for her because we're 10 minutes from private school which allowed her to live home and do 10 minute commute. Large state school across town would have involved transportation for commute OR..... she would be paying room and board herself for dorm living. A no-brainer... she/we chose the private school.

 

Our 11th grade dd may have to go the cc route for her first 2 years. She's recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She has learning challenges. This yr and next, we have her taking a minimum of 2 cc courses per semester (fall, spring & summer) so by the time she goes cc full-time in Sept. 2009, she'll have at least 12 college courses behind her. This slow and easy plan works best for her at this time and will be easier on her finances. Last month she payed from her own money, cc tuition and books.

 

In other words------ With our situation, dh and I are limited in how much we can help our kids through college. We help where we can with advice and other things but they "own their education" so they have to work their way through. That's life for us! Oldest dd has to work 15 hrs/week on private school campus to pay her portion of tuition. Her dad and I only help out here and there... buying her clothing (only on sale or at Salvation Army), doctor bills, insurance, free room and board, free transportation, etc.

 

Financing college is a good time for kids to learn how to take charge of their life but don't just throw them out there and say, "There you go kiddo, you're an adult now so figure it out!" Help them through the process. Don't force them to make those decisions all alone or they may end up doing the wrong thing out of ignorance and will regret it for years and will be bitter later on that Mom and Dad didn't help guide them through the process when they needed that help.

 

OK, I'll stop. This is probably more than you really wanted to know.:D

[PariSarah]

I think I'll pull out my very first budget. I have it somewhere in the attic. If I remember correctly, it went:

 

$75/month rent (we lived in my g'dad's condo--only thing we could afford)

$100/month insurance (medical AND auto)

$75/month gas

$75/month groceries

$25/month dining out

$475/month student loans

 

Student loans were our biggest line item for three years, until parents' gifts helped us get the rest of them cleared away. I can't see how we would have been able to make it if we didn't have 1) nearly-free housing; 2) already-paid-for cars; and 3) a strong desire to be financially disciplined. Yeah, #3 I can pat myself on the back for, but the other two were sheer gift--gifts your dd might not be able to count on.

 

I like Chris in VA's ideas, too--a little research can be very sobering. Ask the financial aid director about the average indebtedness of graduates. She'll get a vague answer at first; have her press for a figure, preferably one that's in writing and published.

 

But in the end, unless she's looking at a big-name university where she would wind up with $80K in student loans, I'd lean toward letting her choose. Loans for an in-state school, esp. if she can live at home for a couple years (maybe insist that she do that?) will be big and a pain, but it won't kill her. And her job for the next six months is to come up with ways to earn money, reduce tuition and expenses, and generally convince you that she'll be able to provide for herself for the first two years after graduation.

[Nan in Mass]

I would guess lots of us. The benefits of college, just like the finances involved, are one those things that you often don't grasp until you are older. If you do manage to get a child to understand the financial burden they are taking on, then you run the risk that they will refuse to go to college. This happened to us. Another thing that we are finding is that many of my oldest's friends have tried CC and quit, whereas I think if they had been in dorms at the university, with all that educational momentum around them, they wouldn't have quit. I think it is easy to underestimate the difficulties of going to CC as the first two years of college. Studying in the dorms may be hard, but at least everyone around is supposed to be studying and some of them are. Studying from home may actually be harder. The opportunities to study with friends are less. The distractions are great. So are the family obligations. My husband and I have discussed extensively why these bright young people, with college educated parents, have quit CC and are now totally at loose ends. Some of them will probably be ok because their parents have enough money that after a year or two they will pick them up and stick them in the state university, but I really worry about some of them. I think CC is a GREAT opportunity for homeschoolers, for those who can't afford college any other way, for those who only want two years of college, for those who want a vocational degree of some sort, or for those who really can't manage school any other way, but I would be careful about assuming it is the same thing as living at a college and devoting all your time and energy to that.

 

Just something to think about. ;) As if you didn't have enough other things...

-Nan

[Chris in VA]

I do agree with you, Nan. We are facing the prospect that we may have to accept that Ds will not go the 4 year, dorm-living route. Both hubby and I had wonderful experiences at college (for the most part), but ds may go to FullSail, an immersion film-making school in Orlando, w/o dorm life (but he would end up with a Bachelor's, just in a shorter time b/c it's so intense). There is something huge to be said about being surrounded with students in the same boat. Of course, there's also alot of yucky stuff in the dorms, and I'm certainly not discounting that. (Happens in apts, too.) But I absolutely agree that there is "educational momentum" at a university, and that should be a consideration. Good pt.

[Jane in NC]

When I was a junior in high school, I received the opportunity to skip my senior year and attend a private, liberal arts college where my education was almost completely funded by scholarships and grants. My only loan was for $500 my freshman year. Tuition-wise, it would have been more expensive to have attended CC!

 

Thus I sing the praises of private colleges. (And thus, in continued gratitude, I send the college a handsome check annually!)

 

In grad school, I worked as a teaching assistant. It was a life of poverty but I had no debt until I accrued some medical related expenses. To pay, I took out a student loan, minimal by most standards.

 

Opportunities abound but students must be looking for them.

 

Jane

[Happy]

Go to http://www.collegeboard.com

Start comparing colleges. Part of the information you look for is the cost per year (or semester) Now add up what a four year degree would cost with projected living expenses (dorm, etc.) Compare several colleges, both private and state.

Then look for the same info for the community college. Estimate living expenses saved while living at home.

 

The comparison staggered my youngest son. He is very into Dave Ramsey at the moment and could not imagine going to a private Christian college that would cost nearly 80,000-100,000 for 4 years. A state school would be 1/3 of that. And less if he goes two years to CC.

 

Our oldest son failed miserably at college. We've already told our youngest he has to prove he can and WILL do college level work before he moves into a dorm. He will take CC classes next year as a dual enrollment student. Then at least one year at home going to the CC before moving on. Because our oldest did so poorly, didn't finish a degree, and is saddled with school debt he can't pay, our younger sees the wisdom in watching your pennies while getting an education.

[Jan P.]

My ds is going to the Sumter, SC branch of The University of SC due to the fact that dh and I can't afford to send him anywhere else at the moment. DS is able to live at home, and a church friend was able to help him get a job at the computer lab so he can study during his work hours. We do not want him to have to pay back student loans after finishing school. Both my dh and I did not have loans to pay off, and so we were free to travel and experience a debt free single hood before getting married. I do not think my ds has distractions at home to keep him from studying. It is rather quiet here unless he distracts himself with the computer. But he would have that problem no matter where he lived. OF course ds thinks about going to the main campus, but it would be way more expensive, larger class sizes, professors only interested in tenure than teaching, and either a long commute or having to make rent payments. For now his college is almost free since he is on a state scholarship, and his room/board is free too.

 

FWIW,

[JFSinIL]

I was a "C" student in high school. My first ever scholarship was from the local newspaper - it was a stipend of enough to cover a year's textbooks at the local cc...and ONLY for a "C" student!!! I was embarrassed, but I took it.

[Kathy in MD]

I think I am simply going to have him work up a "pretend budget" (there's gotta be a better word for that! lol)

 

 

The term's "pro-forma" budget.

[mcconnellboys]

Add up what a variety of schools will cost for four years and tell her that some don't even graduate within four years. Compare that amount of debt to the cost of various houses in your area, to cars, and other big ticket items. Talk about how long it would take to earn that amount of money based on various salary ranges. Talk about the amount of interest that will get added on to that amount as it's being paid off, over time.

 

It's like having a mortgage when you get out of school - BEFORE you even buy a house!

 

We've been running through these scenarios with our older son, too.

 

We've also been showing him what sorts of scholarships students can expect with certain GPA's, etc. and how much (or little) this will actually deduct from the total costs of various colleges. So it may sound good to "get a scholarship", but for some schools, the amount is so little compared to the cost of the school, that you're still hugely in debt when you get out.

 

Regena

[Carol in Cal.]

Is your CC really transferrable? Here in CA, in theory you can complete the first two years of UC classes at CC, but in practice this rarely works out. For one thing, credit tends not to be transferable. If you take physics, for instance, at the CC level, you might be considered to have only completed the easy physics for biology majors, not the difficult physics for science and engineering majors. And, making matters worse, when you retake physics when you get to the university, you don't get full credit for it because you have already taken some of it. But you still have to take the entire class. And it delays you from taking other requirements at the university.

 

Also, the CC's don't offer as many sections of these required classes, and they cancel them if there is not a certain threshold of enrollment, which is pretty common. So it's impossible to know until a few weeks into each semester whether or not your classes will actually be held. And if they are not, it is difficult to move into another class instead.

 

Bottom line, for a 'requirement-dense' major like engineering or computer science, it is not uncommon to take classes for 3 years instead of 2 at the CC, and then to take classes for 3 years instead of 2 at the university as well.

 

So I would investigate transferability from the university's perspective, not based on what the CC says, and also make sure to check on the transferability in the specific major that your child is interested in.

 

And, if your child is going into a field that pays quite well, I would go ahead and send him straight to the university. The two years of pay that he'll be ahead from graduating on time might just make up for all the extra expense of the loans.

[NancyL]

Yes I agree that if you make the "hoops" too hard for the student you may scare them away from going to college. My daughter's friends that went to CC as part of HS initially were thrilled to be there instead of Homeschooling, but few managed to make the transition to 4 year college. (and these were incredibly smart kids) They got sidetracked with jobs, boyfriends, and then lost momentum. They got old enough that the parents expected them to pay their own way, and they aren't in school. (it kind of makes me sad to see the wasted talent) I had another friend who had a roomate in college who was a CC transfer with straight A's. She said she had no concept of how to study because the CC was too easy. She was dropped into the junior level classes and was flunking. Luckily her friends sat down with her and went over some study skills to help. I know its very hard to imagine, but kids can be sidetracked easily from college. My husband said, even when one of his room mates dropped out and went to work, it was hard for all of them, because he started wanting to do more social things, and turned the TV on all the time. He said that showed him you really have to have a minimum of distractions to be able to concentrate on college. It is a short, but critical era of your life. You can never revisit those years if you waste them.

[Laura Corin]

If you do manage to get a child to understand the financial burden they are taking on, then you run the risk that they will refuse to go to college.

 

Calvin is risk-averse, and I could imagine him just saying he won't go to college.

 

As we have the choice of countries, we have told him that we will support him during term time to go to any British university (USD 6000 a year in fees for three years, at current prices) but he needs to work in the holidays. If he wants to go to a US university, he needs to qualify for scholarships.

 

Laura

[Plaid Dad]

I'm not sure if this will help, but you can tell her that it's not uncommon now for students to need 25 years to pay off their loans, particularly if they don't get a high-paying job right out of school - and many don't. Unless our financial picture changes dramatically, we will still be paying off dw's loans when our own dd is out of college. :( I've known young couples with bachelor's degrees who started out married life with collective student loan debt of almost $200,000 - and that's just the principal, not the 25 years' worth of interest they'll be paying. This is a crushing amount of debt.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

I think I am simply going to have him work up a "pretend budget" (there's gotta be a better word for that! lol)

 

"Proposed Life Map"

 

:)

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

The term's "pro-forma" budget.

 

I should have read yours first. ;)

[Susan in IL]

My aunt and uncle had a deal with all 5 of their kids. They would not pay for the first 2 years of college, even though they had plenty of money to be able to pay every dime. If the kids wanted to go, they had to fund those 2 years themselves, either with loans, scholarships, jobs, etc. They believed that if the kids paid for it themselves, it would motivate them to do well. If they did, then my aunt and uncle would pay for the last 2 years at ANY college they wanted to go.

 

All of but the oldest one went away to college (one even went to a very expensive private LAC) straight from high school, paying their own way and my aunt and uncle kept their part of the bargain. The oldest graduated from the local CC but never transfered to a 4 year school.

 

A variation of this might work for you or others here.

[Gwen in VA]

I would like to echo an earlier post -- do NOT assume that there will be no merit or financial aid.

 

Merit aid story from the trenches -- our oldest is going to a school that costs approximately $50,000 per year. Thanks to extensive merit aid, last year we paid only a few thousand. (No loans involved).

 

Financial aid -- Some schools are VERY different from others. One school may say that you have to pay X; another school will say that you have to pay 2X or even 3X. Private schools can be VERY good with financial aid. Before dd applies, you need to be clear that if the fin aid package is not acceptable, she won't go -- but then encourage her to apply. (Investigate average student indebtedness on college confidential and US News & World Report to get an idea of how much schools vary with their fin aid programs!)

 

One last thought -- student loans may not be the worst thing. We wouldn't let dd take loans -- she wants to go into art conservation, which obviously pays next to nothing. But ds1 wants to go into economics, which has a rosier future in terms of earnings, so we won't mind if he graduates with some debt. (We are NOT talking down payment - sized loans here -- but some debt is not the end of the world.)

[Nestof3]

We haven't had to do this because our 17 year old has worked with Dad for years saving up money which may be used on college. He knows how hard he worked and he knows how much will be required. He's all for whichever route is most economical.