FCAT Scores Disappoint in Florida PS

[Hockey Mom]

http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2012-05-14/FCAT-Scores-Too-Low

 

One solution is to lower the score used in the school's grading formula to a 3.5.

 

I guess I don't understand why that would even be on the table. If entire grades are unable to meet grade standards, why wouldn't the focus be more on learning the material instead of lowering the bar?

[Halcyon]

What's ridiculous is how much they study for the FCAT, how meaningless the scores really are, and how little students are actually learning. I have a close relative in 5th and she couldn't tell me what countries border the United States. She said Alaska and China. (Oh, and she aced her FCAT). I could give you other stories, but I won't.

[Hockey Mom]

What's ridiculous is how much they study for the FCAT, how meaningless the scores really are, and how little students are actually learning. I have a close relative in 5th and she couldn't tell me what countries border the United States. She said Alaska and China. (Oh, and she aced her FCAT). I could give you other stories, but I won't.

 

That was confusing to me as well. All I hear from my PS-teacher friends is how they have to teach that test. All I hear from my PS-parent friends is how all they learn is FCAT material. And yet, they fail the writing portion (significantly). The powers-that-be think a viable solution is to lower the standard? Makes no sense.

[Mommy22alyns]

http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2012-05-14/FCAT-Scores-Too-Low

 

 

 

I guess I don't understand why that would even be on the table. If entire grades are unable to meet grade standards, why wouldn't the focus be more on learning the material instead of lowering the bar?

 

Well, you would think so, but that's not the way society works these days. :glare:

[Joker]

They're talking about lowering the score because they had voted to change the grading criteria and raise the passing score starting this year. They're saying the effects of that were worse than they thought. We had letters sent home warning us that student scores might drop this year due to the new grading system.

 

That said, I think the whole test is ridiculous. This was my dds first year taking it (she's back in public school now) and she said it was super easy.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2012-05-14/FCAT-Scores-Too-Low

 

 

 

I guess I don't understand why that would even be on the table. If entire grades are unable to meet grade standards, why wouldn't the focus be more on learning the material instead of lowering the bar?

 

What does "grade for conventions" mean in English? I have an Ed degree and still don't know what that is supposed to imply.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Half of Florida 10th graders failed the reading portion.

 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/half-florida-high-school-students-fail-reading-test-232516894.html

 

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/may/18/half-florida-high-school-students-fail-fcat-test/

 

I keep hearing that the FCAT is strangely worded and so difficult the teachers probably couldn't pass it, either. Is that true? On the other hand, many say that it isn't hard at all, but everybody makes such a big stinking deal about it that the kids all have crippling test anxiety. Is that true?

 

I found some info on the 2010 test. I can't imagine any literate person being unable to comprehend these samples:

 

http://fcat.fldoe.org/pdf/sample/0910/reading/FL517300_10_Rdg_TB_WT_r2g.pdf

 

Mind-numbingly tedious and boring, but not too difficult, in my opinion, but I am no expert on standardized tests. Can anyone explain this situation?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The ed. commissioner is reminding people that these scores are actually up from last year's 48% pass rate.

 

http://stateimpact.npr.org/florida/2012/05/18/half-of-9th-and-10th-graders-failed-fcat-2-0-reading-but-commissioner-says-thats-an-improvement/

 

This article has some more facts and figures. Very eye-opening.

 

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Half-of-High-Schoolers-Fail-FCAT-Reading-Portion-152041645.html

[Truscifi]

Half of Florida 10th graders failed the reading portion.

 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/half-florida-high-school-students-fail-reading-test-232516894.html

 

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/may/18/half-florida-high-school-students-fail-fcat-test/

 

I keep hearing that the FCAT is strangely worded and so difficult the teachers probably couldn't pass it, either. Is that true? On the other hand, many say that it isn't hard at all, but everybody makes such a big stinking deal about it that the kids all have crippling test anxiety. Is that true?

 

I found some info on the 2010 test. I can't imagine any literate person being unable to comprehend these samples:

 

http://fcat.fldoe.org/pdf/sample/0910/reading/FL517300_10_Rdg_TB_WT_r2g.pdf

 

Mind-numbingly tedious and boring, but not too difficult, in my opinion, but I am no expert on standardized tests. Can anyone explain this situation?

 

I have only looked at portions of some of the elementary tests, not any of the higher grades. It isn't so much that they are not understandable, as the way they are worded makes it difficult to understand what they are looking for to meet the grading criteria. Or maybe it is that the grading criteria aren't well matched to the questions. And a lot of the elementary kids I worked with while tutoring did worry excessively about the test.

[EKS]

It sounds like a problem with the test (or the grading of the test), not the students or teachers.

[SailorMom]

DS15 went back to ps in 8th. He's taken the FCAT two years now. He thinks they are ridiculously easy - but horribly written.

I can see how some of the answers are very ambiguous in some of the reading.

That said - even badly written tests cannot account for how dismally the state is failing its students. Writing is hardly taught at all except in FCAT writing years (4th, 8th, 10th). how they think those kids can become proficient writers with hardly any writing instruction is beyond me....

It is really bad around here. What is worse, is that because of the low standards, people in my area think the schools are just fantastic!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

DS15 went back to ps in 8th. He's taken the FCAT two years now. He thinks they are ridiculously easy - but horribly written.

I can see how some of the answers are very ambiguous in some of the reading.

That said - even badly written tests cannot account for how dismally the state is failing its students. Writing is hardly taught at all except in FCAT writing years (4th, 8th, 10th). how they think those kids can become proficient writers with hardly any writing instruction is beyond me....

It is really bad around here. What is worse, is that because of the low standards, people in my area think the schools are just fantastic!

 

Well, that's what I'm wondering. It would seem that a rather clunky test would result in lowered scores but not show a failure rate of 50%.

 

Especially if some of the schools in the articles only had a 7 to 10% proficiency rate before the FCAT changes!

 

Trying to understand standardized testing from the outside is a jello-nailing experience, for sure. One gets the feeling that very little is as it seems.

[creekland]

I can't speak to Florida's test, but I can relay what goes on in our school - an underperforming school in PA...

 

What is taught in our classes is not up to grade level. Our kids don't know vocab words at grade level because many do not read on their own, books chosen to be read at school are at a lower level, and when they do read challenging excerpts, kids don't care a hoot about learning the more difficult words even if it means they don't understand the story.

 

So, since we're behind, we also have test study classes for those who haven't passed. We pass out reading passages, grammar practice, and/or vocab practice. Not only do our kids now know the words being tests, they often don't know the words given as choices. It's impossible to learn huge chunks of new vocab in a one hour time period. They might memorize the answers for a short period of time, but generally they don't even care to do that. Vocab, grammar, and even reading comprehension have to be developed over years - not caught up in a short prep class. It needs to be done by having challenging material (explained) from the beginning, but we don't do that as we want all kids reading the same books, so an 8th grade class will be reading a 4th - 6th grade level book or a popular book such as The Hunger Games (perhaps an interesting read, but not challenging vocab). Kids who read more challenging books on their own (there are a few) often do well.

 

With math, sure, we offer Alg 1 --> Calc and Stats, but the actual tests are so watered down that students don't actually see any difficult questions. Any difficult question assigned as homework gets "something" written down so they can get credit for doing their homework, but the kids don't actually try to think to get the problem correct. They skip it. Homework answers are handed out the next day and kids are supposed to check their homework, but few do more than glance over the pages. They don't care. They don't need to care. Math is done as a team (group of 3 or 4), so as long as one person sort of gets it, the rest are ok. Their copying skills are good. They do have individual tests, but again, the problems are so wickedly easy, all one needs to know is the bare basics - and most don't do well on those tests either. Fortunately, their homework and team test grades (+ participation grades) can bring them up to a decent grade. They'll pass our classes, but know VERY little.

 

Then they take the math test and the questions are so HARD... (so they think - I think they're fair - my homeschooled kids think they're easy). The teachers wonder how they will ever get enough kids up to a passing score. Remedial classes happen, and again, the kids get one topic (maybe two) per class, try to memorize it, might get it, then move on and forget it. They've already decided they're horrible at math and can't do it, so few put in much effort.

 

Science is our new one. The same thing is happening. Kids are not challenged in class with more than the basics, only have to learn for a test (then can forget), and when they are expected to remember things for the state test, they fail dismally. They also don't care to put forth more effort (which is why the classes are so basic to begin with). When I've had a chance to look at the science tests, I think they are fair. I know they are too challenging for our high school kids, but only because they haven't been prepared well.

 

Not only do our rank and file not know much, our college bound kids are hampered too. They consistently score below average on the SAT. Even our good kids seldom have a good national score. Those who do tend to do a LOT outside of school to help.

[Night Elf]

I found some info on the 2010 test. I can't imagine any literate person being unable to comprehend these samples:

 

http://fcat.fldoe.org/pdf/sample/0910/reading/FL517300_10_Rdg_TB_WT_r2g.pdf

 

Mind-numbingly tedious and boring, but not too difficult, in my opinion, but I am no expert on standardized tests. Can anyone explain this situation?

 

What I found interesting is the Read, Think, Explain questions. They are marked as no longer being on the FCAT. They seem to require a simple paragraph. I've never seen a writing question in the reading section before, but I think it's a good idea. Were all the writing questions removed in favor of one giant essay?

 

I've never paid attention to the standardized tests here in Georgia since I homeschool, but I'm going to have to learn about the high school ones since dd14 will be starting school in the fall.

[Paz]

I'm in FL and what I've been hearing about the writing test this year is that they raised the criteria to grade more heavily on grammar and spelling.

[ErinE]

What's ridiculous is how much they study for the FCAT, how meaningless the scores really are, and how little students are actually learning. I have a close relative in 5th and she couldn't tell me what countries border the United States. She said Alaska and China. (Oh, and she aced her FCAT). I could give you other stories, but I won't.

 

Similar situations here, but I've also seen where the child is an okay student (mostly Bs, no Cs), but every time he has to take a standardized test he barely passes the reading (he always aces the math). According to his teachers, he thinks too hard about the question. He considers all the possibilities, drawing on his own experience to answer. And it causes him trouble because the tests want the student to be a repeater, not a thinker. The methodical consideration that is a valuable skill in real life is a detriment when he takes a standardized test.

 

I am good at taking standardized, multiple-choice tests, because I put blinders on. I consider nothing other than what the information given and what the test is specifically asking. It's how I paid for college, but once I started working, I found my critical thinking skills were hampered because I was so used to regurgitating information.

 

Plus, I have serious problems with a top-down dictum that "raises the bar" on all these students when it's obvious the bureaucracy hasn't prepared them adequately. The administrators identified problems with the state's education program so they opted to "fail" the kids rather than fix the system.

[Cosmos]

What does "grade for conventions" mean in English? I have an Ed degree and still don't know what that is supposed to imply.

 

"Conventions" refers to conforming to the rules of standard written English, i.e. spelling, punctuation, word usage, and grammar. Writing can be graded without consideration of conventions if the goal is to assess ideas and structure. In the old days, instead of "grade for conventions", you would hear, "Spelling counts."

[SailorMom]

I'm in FL and what I've been hearing about the writing test this year is that they raised the criteria to grade more heavily on grammar and spelling.

 

Yes - but even once they accounted for that, the passing rate was still only 47% (down from 81% last year, I think)

[Joker]

Yes - but even once they accounted for that, the passing rate was still only 47% (down from 81% last year, I think)

 

Once they lowered the passing score back down to a 3, the number of passing was just about where it was last year. They say they've given the teachers and students one more year to work on things before the new standards will now kick in.

[SailorMom]

Once they lowered the passing score back down to a 3, the number of passing was just about where it was last year. They say they've given the teachers and students one more year to work on things before the new standards will now kick in.

 

 

Ah - maybe I'm thinking of reading instead of writing? Or maybe that was just the local scores here in my neck of the woods....

[Joker]

Ah - maybe I'm thinking of reading instead of writing? Or maybe that was just the local scores here in my neck of the woods....

 

I thought most places thought the reading stayed the same. I know in my district the passing reading scores were all over 70%, but the district next to us was under 50%. I also think the state average was barely over 50% ~ which is all just sad.

[Dmmetler]

According to my FL teacher friend, they drastically changed what was considered "passing"-so that the SAME score that would have been passing last year was now failing, and some of the tests were just plain hard/weird compared to last year. My friend teaches a GT/High achieving 5th grade, and she said HER kids, who are only in her class because they're identified GT or have scored over the 90% on state testing in the previous year, were complaining about the test and how hard it was, and she has kids who test well and who aren't scared of tests (and for whom she does no formal test prep because they don't need it). She says that the school was basically like being on the set of the Walking Dead after testing was completed because the kids were so shell-shocked.

[Upward Journey]

According to my FL teacher friend, they drastically changed what was considered "passing"-so that the SAME score that would have been passing last year was now failing, and some of the tests were just plain hard/weird compared to last year. My friend teaches a GT/High achieving 5th grade, and she said HER kids, who are only in her class because they're identified GT or have scored over the 90% on state testing in the previous year, were complaining about the test and how hard it was, and she has kids who test well and who aren't scared of tests (and for whom she does no formal test prep because they don't need it). She says that the school was basically like being on the set of the Walking Dead after testing was completed because the kids were so shell-shocked.

 

 

Yes, this is what I heard as well. That they made the test harder and raised what was considered to be a passing score.