Am I the only one who finds Dave Ramsey annoying?

[funschooler5]

I looked at his budget planner on his website this week and laughed when the lowest sample salary was way higher than Dh's. We would love to have that lowest monthly income! And I laughed when I noticed that the monthly budget for the lowest salary only allowed $150 for utilities. I don't know anyone who pays only $150 on utilities! Does that mean we do without a phone or electricity or gas or water or ???

 

I know that I could have created a 7 day free trial account and plugged in my own numbers, but seriously, I do not want the hassle of canceling the account before they charge me for it. I would just like to see a realistic sample. I thought that his figures were offensive to those of us on low incomes.

 

I always wonder if Dave Ramsey would laugh at our homeschooling endeavor and tell me to go back to work, given our low income. We certainly share his ideas about staying out of debt and are doing a good job with that, but he might be shocked at how little we are able to save. During this season of our lives, homeschooling and being with our children is a higher priority than funding our retirement account. I don't think that we will regret this choice.

 

That said, I sometimes enjoy listening to him and filter his sometimes arrogant attitude from the good information.

 

 

Wow! Our power bill alone is more than $150. :glare:

[plansrme]

He admits that he tells people the same things over and over. He is very much the Saxon Math of financial advisors.

 

But, love him or hate him, his recommendations work. They are not the only path to financial security, certainly, but they do work. Many, many, many people are really stupid about money and life decisions that they don't think of as being about money but have significant financial ramifications (e.g., when to marry, whether to go to or go back to school, how many children to have) and need black-and-white rules to get on track. He is not shy about telling someone, "You cannot afford to go back to school now. You have a wife and four children and no income. You need a job and health insurance, not a degree in Ancient Near Eastern Religions."

 

I love Dave and wish he still came on during afternoon drive-time.

 

Terri

[rafiki]

.

[3MMommy]

I'm not a big fan. One of the things I find most annoying about him is his holier than thou attitude when doling out advice he did not live out. He got out of debt by filing for bankruptcy! He didn't seem to suffer much harm from it, yet he doesn't think anyone should follow in his path.

[dirty ethel rackham]

JFTR, I am not quibbling with his advice or anything. I am not watching him for advice. We do fine managing our money because our parents taught us not to live beyond our means. Dh and I took a money management class early in our marriage.

 

We are doing this course as a personal finance credit for my teen boys. I guess we will have to muddle through and I will have to continually pause it to interject and we will continue to roll our eyes at his patronizing, jingoistic presentation.

[plansrme]

I'm not a big fan. One of the things I find most annoying about him is his holier than thou attitude when doling out advice he did not live out. He got out of debt by filing for bankruptcy! He didn't seem to suffer much harm from it, yet he doesn't think anyone should follow in his path.

 

He says he repaid his creditors after the bankruptcy.

 

Terri

[Pink Fairy]

I think he bothers me for the same reason Dr. Laura bothers me. I agree with 90% of what they say, but the way they say it is just so obnoxious that I can't stand to listen.

[mamajag]

I think he's over the top, but he doesn't bother me. I find myself laughing at his DVDs. The only thing I've seen him say that might be taken as negative about his wife is that he does have a checking account with a sizable sum in it that she keeps. She has issues with how quickly they lost everything, and it is her safety net. I've always thought it was sweet that he was willing to do that in order for her to feel more comfortable and safe.

 

We don't have a ton of debt, but we've started using his ideas and are doing much better. It's nice to have it laid out and planned because neither of our parents are good with money and we had no foundation as far as financial knowledge. We aren't Dave disciples by any means, and we do a couple of things differently, but we've had people ask how we're doing so much better or how we're affording x, we will tell them about Dave. It's up to them to Google him if they are interested beyond that.

 

I can't stand Clark Howard and Suze Orman. They just grate my last nerve…

[Cindyg]

I don't like his style either, but I'm having trouble finding a financial curriculum/Christian based as well without him!!!! Anyone have some suggestions for a teen study???

 

MUS has a personal finance class. I've never used it; but I always meant to. Also BJUP has a consumer math class.

[Mama2Many4]

I've never listened to or read Dave Ramsey, but Suze Orman does irritate the heck out of me.

[PeacefulChaos]

:iagree: I see them as making money off the backs of the people who can least afford it. A person could easily spend $100 or better getting all the books and media needed to go through the program.

 

So no, I don't like DR on principle. We will be debt free in July without him.

:iagree::iagree: This is one of the MAJOR problems that I and some of my friends have with him. Need to get out of debt? Here, pay $100 for FPU! Want to use our online service? Here, pay ___!! It's ridiculous. Yeah, no wonder he's in such great financial shape. :rolleyes:

I think we may be one of the few couples at our church who aren't gaga over Dave. Everyone tells me we need to use his program . We manage our money very well and always have. Both our parents did a great job of teaching us about money.

 

I seem to notice my friends who love Dave have made some really poor money decisions. Buying houses they can't afford, new cars, etc. and now expect Dave to fix it so they can keep their life. They want to know who we manage on one income.....let's see no satellite tv, no dream vacations every year, no IPhones, no eating out every week.

 

Us, too. Our church in general LOVES him. They have done FPU a couple of times and stuff.

We actually did a finance class long before DR became so popular that gave us more than enough information - from someone who doesn't CHARGE us anything, who I actually KNOW is responsible and knows what he is doing, who has taken a business from being 'just making it' to doing awesome. He knows his financial stuff, for sure. I'm much more interested in what he has to say than DR.

I also agree with the PP who said something about what he has listed as incomes. When our church offered FPU a couple of years ago, some friends of ours tried to get us to go and I was like, Absolutely not! We were like, we've already done a class, and it doesn't need to be his. We know what we're doing - his 'financial advice' isn't going to make people start building houses more (which was the root of our financial struggles at the time). It angered me to no end that people assumed we were low on money because we were idiots with it, not because the construction business (we owned a construction company) had gone waaaay downhill. :glare: Honestly, it still p*sses me off... I've also seen the above - people who are supposedly doing 'so well' because of DR, but they have overspent on houses, vehicles, eating out - living above their means. Others are looking at what they have, knowing they've done DR, and assume that they are doing awesome financially, when it really isn't the case.

Maybe it isn't necessarily him so much - with the exception of charging for common sense - but this cult like following of his who thinks he knows all. :ack2:

[plansrme]

Those of you who find it objectionable that he charges for his products and services--why shouldn't he? Do you think he should run it as a charity? If so, why? Why is what he does different from any other service? You want it, you pay for it; you don't want it, don't pay for it.

 

Does it make you angry that your grocery store does not give away its groceries? The power company--should they give away electricity, and should I rail against them if they don't? I just do not get this disgust with his charging for his products.

 

Dave's position, as I understand it, is that people will take a course more seriously if they have paid $100 (or whatever) for it. If it is free, they are less likely to be committed to the program. That makes sense to me, as does "the laborer is worth of his hire."

 

Terri

[Moxie]

Those of you who find it objectionable that he charges for his products and services--why shouldn't he? Do you think he should run it as a charity? If so, why? Why is what he does different from any other service? You want it, you pay for it; you don't want it, don't pay for it.

 

Does it make you angry that your grocery store does not give away its groceries? The power company--should they give away electricity, and should I rail against them if they don't? I just do not get this disgust with his charging for his products.

 

Dave's position, as I understand it, is that people will take a course more seriously if they have paid $100 (or whatever) for it. If it is free, they are less likely to be committed to the program. That makes sense to me, as does "the laborer is worth of his hire."

 

Terri

 

On the DR forums, there is a section for FPU leaders. They will tell you story after story about people with financial issues that beg to go to FPU for free or a reduced price and then don't show up. You have to have some skin in the game!

[PeacefulChaos]

Those of you who find it objectionable that he charges for his products and services--why shouldn't he? Do you think he should run it as a charity? If so, why? Why is what he does different from any other service? You want it, you pay for it; you don't want it, don't pay for it.

 

Does it make you angry that your grocery store does not give away its groceries? The power company--should they give away electricity, and should I rail against them if they don't? I just do not get this disgust with his charging for his products.

 

Dave's position, as I understand it, is that people will take a course more seriously if they have paid $100 (or whatever) for it. If it is free, they are less likely to be committed to the program. That makes sense to me, as does "the laborer is worth of his hire."

 

Terri

 

It doesn't make me 'angry' that he charges for his services.

But the grocery store/power company thing isn't the same at all - they aren't doing what they do in order to help people 'achieve financial freedom'. DR is supposedly 'helping' people with money problems - the idea is that they don't have money to begin with, so he charges them to help them? I just think it's dumb.

I find it much more annoying that everything he says is common sense. He's charging people for common sense. :001_huh:

[Moxie]

It doesn't make me 'angry' that he charges for his services.

But the grocery store/power company thing isn't the same at all - they aren't doing what they do in order to help people 'achieve financial freedom'. DR is supposedly 'helping' people with money problems - the idea is that they don't have money to begin with, so he charges them to help them? I just think it's dumb.

I find it much more annoying that everything he says is common sense. He's charging people for common sense. :001_huh:

 

So then your problem shouldn't be with DR but with the fact that we have gotten so far away from common sense being common.

[PeacefulChaos]

So then your problem shouldn't be with DR but with the fact that we have gotten so far away from common sense being common.

 

That is a big part of it, yes. I said that already - that my problem isn't with him so much, probably, but with the cult that follows him and assumes he knows everything and can fix everything (who also, clearly, have no common sense). He is, in fact, just a man, who makes money on something that no one should be capable of making money on.

[GailV]

I've only heard DR once, but I immediately thought of Franny and Zooey ... the line where they remember that Seymore told Franny to "be funny for the fat lady" and Zooey to shine his shoes for a radio show, because of the fat lady. DR is common sense finance for Seymore's Fat Lady.

 

(Before you leap all over a perceived insult, please read Franny and Zooey AND Raise High the Roofbeam, Carpenters first. ;))

 

*the dogs

 

Oh, wow, I LOVED Franny and Zooey, and Raise High the Roofbeam! How cool that you brought them up!

[plansrme]

It doesn't make me 'angry' that he charges for his services.

But the grocery store/power company thing isn't the same at all - they aren't doing what they do in order to help people 'achieve financial freedom'. DR is supposedly 'helping' people with money problems - the idea is that they don't have money to begin with, so he charges them to help them? I just think it's dumb.

I find it much more annoying that everything he says is common sense. He's charging people for common sense. :001_huh:

 

So should all books on financial planning, all budgeting software, all banking services, all investment advice, be free? Where do you draw the line? At people whose advice you don't think you need? Well, then, that isn't really your objection, was it? You say he shouldn't charge for his advice because it is all about financial freedom, but it sounds as if the real reason is that you don't like him. Fine, don't like him or his product, but don't pretend that it is because of a moral objection.

 

Terri

[Marylou]

I could be wrong, (not a FPUer), but once you pay the $100 it's for as long as you live, right? I don't know any other financial planner that will give that deal.

 

I think DR tries to be too hip and funny. He does grate against many folks b/c of it.

 

I really like Chuck Bentley. Mary Hunt is another good one (way to go Audrey!)

[Susann]

One can do the TMM simply by borrowing the book from the library and listening to his free podcasts like we did.

 

It's because of Dave that we were able to survive dh being laid off for 9 months. Unemployment compensation didn't even cover our COBRA.

:iagree: Exactly what we did. DH lost his job last year-which happened to be dd#1 first year of college, dd#2 year of major medical expenses & my year of heart issues. Love him or hate him DR saved our family and marriage and I thank God for that!

[PeacefulChaos]

So should all books on financial planning, all budgeting software, all banking services, all investment advice, be free? Where do you draw the line? At people whose advice you don't think you need? Well, then, that isn't really your objection, was it? You say he shouldn't charge for his advice because it is all about financial freedom, but it sounds as if the real reason is that you don't like him. Fine, don't like him or his product, but don't pretend that it is because of a moral objection.

 

Terri

 

:rolleyes:

Whatever. I don't like him. I don't like him because people love him and put him on a pedestal and think he knows everything.

HE doesn't save anyone, he isn't a miracle worker. He's just a MAN. We won't go into my personal feelings on why I don't even necessarily think it is our 'right' to be wealthy.

Obviously, no one is reading what I'm actually saying, and I really don't care but find it all annoying. Why do you care what I think of someone who is NO different and NO better than anyone else? For pity's sake... :rolleyes:

[Joanne]

It doesn't make me 'angry' that he charges for his services.

But the grocery store/power company thing isn't the same at all - they aren't doing what they do in order to help people 'achieve financial freedom'. DR is supposedly 'helping' people with money problems - the idea is that they don't have money to begin with, so he charges them to help them? I just think it's dumb.

I find it much more annoying that everything he says is common sense. He's charging people for common sense. :001_huh:

 

I don't understand this perspective at all.

 

People who drink to excess and have an problem with alcohol should stop drinking. That's common sense. But many hundreds of thousands of them need help.

 

Diabetics should reduce carbs, but many need monitoring.

 

Parents should know how to parent from a common sense perspective - but many need help.

 

People should know how to clean house, budget, work out at a gym. Common sense.

 

I don't see one single thing wrong with people paying for information they (for whatever reason) lack.

 

Because people got into debt, Dave should offer his program and plan at a reduced rate or free? His books are routinely available at thrift stores for $.25 and his site sells them for $10 each several times a year.

[Joanne]

I did read his "Total Money Makeover" out of curiosity - it is a quick read, alot of repetition of his central idea. But that's how he drills the ideas in your head I guess. Sure he has some good ideas, but nothing new it under the sun. Plus what works for some, doesn't for others.

 

I tend to turn away from "motivational" speakers like him. For some this is encouraging and is the push they need to get going in what area they are needing help in. For me I find it too much.

 

I enjoyed Larry Burkett. I really like his mild-mannered approach and his sold thoughts on finances. He seemed very sincere and not at all condescending (not that I'm pointing a finder at DR!).

 

FWIW, I don't put DR in the motivational speaker category at all.

[Joanne]

I think we may be one of the few couples at our church who aren't gaga over Dave. Everyone tells me we need to use his program . We manage our money very well and always have. Both our parents did a great job of teaching us about money.

 

I seem to notice my friends who love Dave have made some really poor money decisions. Buying houses they can't afford, new cars, etc. and now expect Dave to fix it so they can keep their life. They want to know who we manage on one income.....let's see no satellite tv, no dream vacations every year, no IPhones, no eating out every week.

 

:confused:

 

So, if your friends who made bad decisions are now seeking information they did not have before, why does it bother you that they'd get it?

[WishboneDawn]

Those of you who find it objectionable that he charges for his products and services--why shouldn't he? Do you think he should run it as a charity? If so, why? Why is what he does different from any other service? You want it, you pay for it; you don't want it, don't pay for it.

 

Does it make you angry that your grocery store does not give away its groceries? The power company--should they give away electricity, and should I rail against them if they don't? I just do not get this disgust with his charging for his products.

 

Dave's position, as I understand it, is that people will take a course more seriously if they have paid $100 (or whatever) for it. If it is free, they are less likely to be committed to the program. That makes sense to me, as does "the laborer is worth of his hire."

 

Terri

 

I think the thing that gets under people's skin with DR is that it's wrapped up in the cloak of a Christian ministry.

 

Much of modern Christianity seems increasingly to be about marketing a product.

[plansrme]

:rolleyes:

Whatever. I don't like him. I don't like him because people love him and put him on a pedestal and think he knows everything.

HE doesn't save anyone, he isn't a miracle worker. He's just a MAN. We won't go into my personal feelings on why I don't even necessarily think it is our 'right' to be wealthy.

Obviously, no one is reading what I'm actually saying, and I really don't care but find it all annoying. Why do you care what I think of someone who is NO different and NO better than anyone else? For pity's sake... :rolleyes:

 

No, I am reading what you are saying, but your rationale just keeps changing. It seems that your dislike has boiled down to the facts that he is rich, and people love him. What if I got on this board and said I do not like poor non-Christians? That I only want to associate with rich Christians? Why is it okay to dislike him because he is rich, popular and Christian?

 

I am still puzzled.

 

Terri

[PeacefulChaos]

I can't stand him, to be perfectly honest.

There, I said it.

There are several people at our church who LOVE him. Like he is THE finance guru (our pastor actually looks exactly like him, which is quite humorous sometimes, but has nothing to do with present conversation lol) of the world and he has ALL the wisdom in the world and if you just do what it says in his book you will ALL be in financial heaven!!!!!!!!

Ugh. This following disgusts me.

Ah, how refreshing...

 

This is one of the MAJOR problems that I and some of my friends have with him. Need to get out of debt? Here, pay $100 for FPU! Want to use our online service? Here, pay ___!! It's ridiculous. Yeah, no wonder he's in such great financial shape. :rolleyes:

 

 

Us, too. Our church in general LOVES him. They have done FPU a couple of times and stuff.

We actually did a finance class long before DR became so popular that gave us more than enough information - from someone who doesn't CHARGE us anything, who I actually KNOW is responsible and knows what he is doing, who has taken a business from being 'just making it' to doing awesome. He knows his financial stuff, for sure. I'm much more interested in what he has to say than DR.

I also agree with the PP who said something about what he has listed as incomes. When our church offered FPU a couple of years ago, some friends of ours tried to get us to go and I was like, Absolutely not! We were like, we've already done a class, and it doesn't need to be his. We know what we're doing - his 'financial advice' isn't going to make people start building houses more (which was the root of our financial struggles at the time). It angered me to no end that people assumed we were low on money because we were idiots with it, not because the construction business (we owned a construction company) had gone waaaay downhill. :glare: Honestly, it still p*sses me off... I've also seen the above - people who are supposedly doing 'so well' because of DR, but they have overspent on houses, vehicles, eating out - living above their means. Others are looking at what they have, knowing they've done DR, and assume that they are doing awesome financially, when it really isn't the case.

Maybe it isn't necessarily him so much - with the exception of charging for common sense - but this cult like following of his who thinks he knows all. :ack2:

 

It doesn't make me 'angry' that he charges for his services.

But the grocery store/power company thing isn't the same at all - they aren't doing what they do in order to help people 'achieve financial freedom'. DR is supposedly 'helping' people with money problems - the idea is that they don't have money to begin with, so he charges them to help them? I just think it's dumb.

I find it much more annoying that everything he says is common sense. He's charging people for common sense. :001_huh:

 

That is a big part of it, yes. I said that already - that my problem isn't with him so much, probably, but with the cult that follows him and assumes he knows everything and can fix everything (who also, clearly, have no common sense). He is, in fact, just a man, who makes money on something that no one should be capable of making money on.

 

Whatever. I don't like him. I don't like him because people love him and put him on a pedestal and think he knows everything.

HE doesn't save anyone, he isn't a miracle worker. He's just a MAN. We won't go into my personal feelings on why I don't even necessarily think it is our 'right' to be wealthy.

Obviously, no one is reading what I'm actually saying, and I really don't care but find it all annoying. Why do you care what I think of someone who is NO different and NO better than anyone else? For pity's sake... :rolleyes:

 

Not to be argumentative, but that looks like the same reason to me. :)

And that is the primary one. The charging for common sense is something that bothers a good friend more than me. I think a PP stated it correctly, though, why I find it so offensive - he puts it all under the guise of a 'Christian' thing. I'm just not a big fan of a 'Christian financial ministry' that charges people so much. If he really cared about helping people (which is, IMO, what a ministry IS), I would think he would just do that, without charging so much.

It's entirely possible I just think VERY differently from him. I do know some people who believe what others have said, that if people don't pay for it they won't take it seriously (or, similarly, they won't think it's worth it/won't come/etc). I have a little bit of an issue with that, because I don't think that is necessarily the case in every situation. And Idk why it should matter if people don't pay and then choose not to take it seriously - the only people suffering from that decision is themselves. (totally incorrect grammar, sorry. Please don't discuss and correct here. :tongue_smilie: ) To me, it's just like handing out free diapers to moms in need - even if the same woman sends her mom, her grandma, her uncle, her sister in law, etc back to get more free diapers for her - which is seen by some as abusing what we're there to bless them with - that really isn't my problem. It's only up to me what I do, not what people choose to do with what I give them. Does that make any sense at all? I know it's a far cry between financial advice and diapers, but I'm just trying to explain the correlation to me - I just don't agree with the concept that in order for it to be considered 'worth it', we (as Christians) should charge people something.

Maybe for some, the methods have worked. But I don't doubt they could have learned it all without his help. I feel like he's abusing the influence that he has by all these specialized products and such. Maybe it is just the state of the world now, idk. And TBH, I haven't personally known anyone who has done his stuff who is actually IN as great shape financially as they pretend they are, 'all because of DR'. :rolleyes:

Idk. I just don't care for him for a multitude of reasons, which are summed up in the all of the above posts.

I do apologize for my tone in the last post I quoted above, though.

[Marylou]

Much of modern Christianity seems increasingly to be about marketing a product.

 

Sadly true.

[Kari C in SC]

We are halfway through the Foundations of Personal Finance with my teen boys. I can't stand the way he talks about his wife. I can't stand his generalizations. I can't stand his patronizing attitude. I know there is a lot of good information in there, but his delivery is bugging me. He generalizes way too much and paints everyone with the same brush. No, Dave, I am not a stupid idiot and don't need him telling me how stupid I am because I may disagree with him on a few points. My boys, who have never expressed much interest in financial matters, are amazed at how stupid the teens are who appear in the DVDs.

 

Okay, rant over!

 

:iagree:

[Lily_Grace]

It doesn't make me 'angry' that he charges for his services.

But the grocery store/power company thing isn't the same at all - they aren't doing what they do in order to help people 'achieve financial freedom'. DR is supposedly 'helping' people with money problems - the idea is that they don't have money to begin with, so he charges them to help them? I just think it's dumb.

I find it much more annoying that everything he says is common sense. He's charging people for common sense. :001_huh:

 

And he'll tell you that it's common sense, and that he doesn't have the corner on the market for it. He'll tell you to check out his book from the library. His reps have given away products for free with the promise that they're shared with those who need it.

 

I don't agree with everything Dave says or how he says it, BUT, his words are a lot more palatable than other writers out there. I read Debt Free For Life and the author spent the first half the book promoting his "debt tools" available online for a fee and the second half talking about debt consolidation agencies, bankruptcies, and letting old debt fall off the 7 year mark. It smacked as being highly unethical.

 

DR helped us get out of debt. The $.25 book I got at the thrift store gave us a game plan. The interwebz gave me a support group. I don't have to buy pretty little envelopes or special budgeting tools. That's a choice - not a necessity.

 

BTW, a lot of the people who gravitate to DR aren't the ones who don't have money to begin with. They have an income. The TMMO is about learning to put that money toward necessities and choosing what to do with the surplus. If they choose to put money towards getting their finances right that's a choice they can feel better about than buying something that will be forgotten in a week.