So what do you feel is required

[choirfarm]

Ok..now I am curious. What do you think constitutes a required education.. I never thought of physics as being required. I only thought that was for STEM majors.. I guess this is what I thought of as a minimum before a child goes to college:

 

4 years of English

 

Biology and maybe Chemistry.. though I wonder if you could use geology or astronomy.. 3 years of science is what I was thinking ( I only had 2 years in high school and non in college ( I placed out of Biology..don't ask me how)

 

3 years of math- to be honest I'm going to try and drag my middle one through teaching him through Alg II. I will then have him take College Alg and Trig at our local community college and call it good..

 

3 years of history ( That said, mine will all have 4 or more as that is a favorite subject around here.. but 3 would be my minimum)

 

Driver's ed and health

 

Financial education class of some kind

 

The rest will be tailored to the person. I never thought you HAD to take physics. They will have to teach themselves or maybe take it at the cc. My oldest taught the first level to himself. ( Dad was available for questions.) He'll take AP Physics online. I don't know if I can take my middle math adverse kid through physics... I just don't know...

[regentrude]

Ok..now I am curious. What do you think constitutes a required education.

 

I base my feeling of required education on the education I received myself in public school in Germany. For a university bound student, I would require:

four years of science (including physics, biology and chemistry), four years of math (through calculus), four years of history, four years of English, and four years of one foreign language.

I consider the four years of one language to be woefully inadequate, but realize that I am unable to give my children the language education I myself received (two foreign languages for 10 and 6 years, respectively).

In addition, music, art, financial education, health, current events...

 

My goal is to equip my children with the knowledge necessary to navigate the world. This means:

enough science to

 

• lead a healthy life, to understand the way the human body works, the way medications work, a thorough understanding of human reproduction.
  
• understand the function of everyday technology (microwaves, cars, computers) and evaluate its use
  
• understand how the world works (why does the Earth move around the sun? why does the moon not fall down? Why do things melt and evaporate? Why do chemical compounds form? What is electricity? )
  
• form an educated opinion on topics of public debate: global warming, stem cells.. to be educated voters
  

enough history to understand current events and politics, and to put works of literature and art into their context

enough literature to be familiar with the most important works of world literature, the important authors, to be able to read between the lines.

enough mathematics to be able to choose any major they would like to pursue without the need for remedial courses.

 

I realize that some students may not be capable of fulfilling these requirements; my kids happen to be capable, and that is what they will be required to learn, because it is the minimum a university bound student in my home country is required to master.

Edited January 29, 2012 by regentrude

[Mom22ns]

I think what is required depends on what your children are preparing for. I am preparing my kids for college. They both want to go and plan to go.

 

The local state college requires:

4 years of English

3 years of Math

3 years of Social Studies

3 years of Science

2 years of the same foreign language

Electives to total a minimum of 24 credits.

 

Other colleges we have checked have higher requirements. My kids will do 4 years of English, Math, Social Studies, and Science. They will have 3 years of foreign language and then electives to fit their own interests for a total of 28+ credits each. I hope some of those credits are dual enrollment credits from the local CC, but we can't start those until they are 16.

[Ester Maria]

The default "standard package" in my eyes is the education in vein of the best academic tradition of the place where you live and / or the culture you associate with. Having your own special interests is great, but I would always make sure that the child has the educational equivalent of the well-educated person of the epoch, place, and intellectual tradition they belong to (combined). So, that would mean both knowledge of modern technology and science and of Latin as an inheritance of the academic tradition, for example.

 

This is, of course, the *ideal* situation. Things woefully complicate if you belong to more than one culture, if you are mobile and move around, if your children lack intellectual capacities for such an education... but this is my default answer, understanding that for nearly every child there will be at least some minor adaptations involved.

 

Translated into the system of the US credits, the best *ideal* equivalent I can think of that would perhaps suit is:

 

4.0 credits in English language and literature;

4.0 credits in math, through calculus;

4.0 credits in science, covering all three of the fundamental high school science classes (biology, chemistry, physics) and a further one in-depth or an additional science course;

4.0 credits in classical languages and literatures (preferably an integrated study of Latin and Greek, although I can see how it would work to focus on each language for two years, or even to focus on one 3-3.5 credits and merely scratch the surface of the other one pro forma);

4.0 credits in the same modern foreign language, through literature;

4.0 credits encompassing history / Western civilization, however fleshed out, and government / economics.

 

That would amount to 6 core classes required every year. Out of things classified as electives, I would mandate:

1.0 credit in art history (or possibly an integrated study of art and music history);

1.0 credit in philosophy.

 

These would possibly be done as cumulative credits - but perhaps as distinct courses too, no problem. That would make it a total of 26 mom-required credits, provided that one does not insist on a yearly religious education, which is otherwise duly inserted amongst those core requirements, making it 30 mom-required credits. There is still room for DC's special interests within such a scheme (especially if you operate with a six-day work week), and of course room for small adaptations while keeping the integrity of the overall plan.

 

That seems reasonable to me, with my bias. Preferably both classical languages and a foreign language are begun before high school.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Ester Maria

[Jane in NC]

Often expectations are determined by state requirements. That was our starting point but it seemed that many of my expectations were far more specific than "four years of English". Reading Shakespeare, Dante, and Melville was important to me although I realize that not everyone can agree to a group of authors that should be required for a person to be "educated".

 

The state in which I live requires applicants to the state university system to have four years of math. The handwriting is on the wall with this one, folks. If your state does not require it, the college to which your students apply may.

 

Important life skills include knowing how to read subway maps and negotiate airports and rail stations. Knowing how to use the Library of Congress classification system. Passing the "dinner party test", i.e. being a pleasure to have at a mixed age gathering. These expectations do not appear on the transcript but they are important as our kids find their way in the world.

 

I guess that I should add that I expected four years of Math, Science, English, History, and Latin. At the start of high school, I expected my son also to complete four years of French. He did two and a half years. But despite being a humanities type of kid, he had five credits in science. I also expected that he should do a larger research project in an area of interest before graduating.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jane in NC
more info

[Caitilin]

I base my feeling of required education on the education I received myself in public school in Germany. For a university bound student, I would require:

four years of science (including physics, biology and chemistry), four years of math (through calculus), four years of history, four years of English, and four years of one foreign language.

I consider the four years of one language to be woefully inadequate, but realize that I am unable to give my children the language education I myself received (two foreign languages for 10 and 6 years, respectively).

In addition, music, art, financial education, health, current events...

 

My goal is to equip my children with the knowledge necessary to navigate the world. This means:

enough science to

 

 

• lead a healthy life, to understand the way the human body works, the way medications work, a thorough understanding of human reproduction.

• understand the function of everyday technology (microwaves, cars, computers) and evaluate its use

• understand how the world works (why does the Earth move around the sun? why does the moon not fall down? Why do things melt and evaporate? Why do chemical compounds form? What is electricity? )

• form an educated opinion on topics of public debate: global warming, stem cells.. to be educated voters

 

enough history to understand current events and politics, and to put works of literature and art into their context

enough literature to be familiar with the most important works of world literature, the important authors, to be able to read between the lines.

enough mathematics to be able to choose any major they would like to pursue without the need for remedial courses.

 

I realize that some students may not be capable of fulfilling these requirements; my kids happen to be capable, and that is what they will be required to learn, because it is the minimum a university bound student in my home country is required to master.

 

This is basically what I am shooting for also, though I did not have the benefit of learning two foreign languages in way Regentrude did.

[SuperDad]

If your state does not require it, the college to which your students apply may.

 

Important life skills include knowing how to read subway maps and negotiate airports and rail stations. Knowing how to use the Library of Congress classification system. Passing the "dinner party test", i.e. being a pleasure to have at a mixed age gathering. These expectations do not appear on the transcript but they are important as our kids find their way in the world.

 

:iagree:, esp. with bolded.

 

 

My goal is to equip my children with the knowledge necessary to navigate the world. This means:

enough science to

 

 

• lead a healthy life, to understand the way the human body works, the way medications work, a thorough understanding of human reproduction.

• understand the function of everyday technology (microwaves, cars, computers) and evaluate its use

• understand how the world works (why does the Earth move around the sun? why does the moon not fall down? Why do things melt and evaporate? Why do chemical compounds form? What is electricity? )

• form an educated opinion on topics of public debate: global warming, stem cells.. to be educated voters

 

enough history to understand current events and politics, and to put works of literature and art into their context

enough literature to be familiar with the most important works of world literature, the important authors, to be able to read between the lines.

enough mathematics to be able to choose any major they would like to pursue without the need for remedial courses.

 

:iagree:

And:

Enough composition and language arts to be able to communicate clearly and efficiently.

Enough vocational/life skills to get along in the world.

Enough foreign language to communicate clearly with a larger variety of people than if there had been no foreign language studied.

Edited January 30, 2012 by SuperDad

[elegantlion]

My ds would throw biology out the window if I let him. He has a physically negative reaction to the subject, but I'm still going to require it. he would take 4 years of physics if he could.

 

I certainly wouldn't base ds's education off of my education, I did not plan college and slacked except in art, history, and Spanish. I also feel like it's my job to expose ds to certain subjects, because he doesn't know enough about them to fully decide if he likes them or not.

 

 

I'm setting my requirements to a higher level. I also believe as homeschoolers we can adjust the depth of a study to our children's ability. Not everyone has to do AP level study of a subject. I'm sure we will have a few classes that wind up getting done just to check a box. My current plan is to use a college level physics book, because ds will apply more effort, and use a custom modified biology (still planning) that will keep him interested and not overwhelmed.

 

That being said I'm probably going to require

 

English - 4

Math - 4

History/Social Studies - 4

Science - 4

Latin - 2

Japanese - 2 or 3

Fine Arts - 1

Introduction to Philosophy - .5 or 1

personal finance (state required, good idea) - .5

PE - 1 (probably done over the summers) - 1

Electives - ?

[Julie in MN]

I homeschool so that my kids can go to *my* school. I basically expect that every year will include:

 

English

Math

Science

Social Studies

Bible

Foreign Language

Pursuit of additional interests either passively (electives, lessons, etc.) or actively (sports, music, service, etc.)

 

But I am open to switching almost anything out, both in *what* we do and *how* we do it.

 

Julie

[chepyl]

4 years of science does not have to include physics. I did physical science, biology, chemistry, and anatomy and physiology. Geology or astronomy would fulfill the requirement. My high school offered astronomy, physics, adv chem, and adv bio as 4th year sciences.

 

Math does not have to include calculus either. Some kids did adv mathematical functions. Alg 1, geometry, Alg 2, and trig would also work.

 

It depends on the child's abilities, interests, and goals.

[choirfarm]

You guys REALLY expect a kid to take calculus??? How in the world can I do calculus with a kid who has a problem that says what figure is made by three noncollinear points? He wrote down line AB. :confused::confused: I told him to sit down and write down three noncolinear points. He did so. I then asked him to look at what it looked like... Oh.. a triangle.. Yes, son.. I mean seriously. This is what I go through every single day, he just writes down answers without THINKING.. :banghead::banghead::banghead: He gets C's and when I go back through things with him I can draw out the answers. But it is a painful process.... I never took Calculus.. I'm not sure how we are going to make it through Geometry.. The college has never called me back about tutors...

 

I should have put foreign language on my list. Also, for me music is a must though I see it might not be on everyone's list. They must play an instrument until they graduate. Basic music theory is a must. But that is for my family...

 

Yes, I am looking at college requirements and doing that, but I just wondered. I realize some of this comes form outside US models... I'm doing well giving my oldest the good education, but he just learns naturally on his own. My middle one does not and if I push, it ruins our relationship.. That said, in a conversation yesterday he finally realized that by taking things at cc, he won't have to take them in college (yes, I know it depends on major..he will not be a STEM major- see above). He got excited about that.. I'm not sure why he thought he was going to cc- because I can't teach Spanish I guess, which is true, but college credit is another big part of it.

[Jane in NC]

You guys REALLY expect a kid to take calculus???

 

As unrealistic as it was for my kiddo who dislikes math on general principle (his parents having graduate degrees in the subject), I feel that being introduced to Calculus is equivalent to reading Shakespeare. This is part of the Great Conversation which I do not think is confined to history, literature and philosophy.

 

That said, I had the advantage of having taught the Calculus sequence previously. This would be a subject that I might have outsourced otherwise.

 

Is it the end of world if your student does not study Calculus? Probably not. Nor is it the end of the world if your student does not study a foreign language, biology, or chemistry. But at some point we all draw our lines in the sand for what we believe creates an Educated Mind. I like the fact that you include music. My son had seven or eight years of piano lessons and then declared it to be enough. He has taken two music classes in college--clearly he has an appreciation of music that I am glad we helped cultivate.

 

The other thing that you have to remember about teenage minds is that they are in a state of flux. My son struggled with trigonometry. When he returned to the subject in his precalculus course, he blew through it and wondered aloud why it had been so difficult for him the year before. This was the same kid who finally understood math and then forgot every Latin ending he had known in previous years. The kid who was so dense that the metaphor of poetry could never penetrate his literal brain--later to be the only student in his CC composition class (dual enrollment) who could explain a Dickinson poem.

 

The beauty of homeschooling is that we can adapt our program to our student's interests and their development. And perhaps we need to regroup and occasionally redraw our lines in the sand. After all, there are only a finite number of hours in the day. So much to learn...

[Mom22ns]

You guys REALLY expect a kid to take calculus???

 

No, I wouldn't expect that child to take calculus. But then, I wouldn't have started him in Algebra until 9th so he could have had four years of math without it. The majority of the degree programs at our state university don't require calculus, so why should he take it in high school?

 

There are other math choices besides Calculus. What about Statistics for example? I had to have it as a science major. Dh had to have it for his business minor. It doesn't require calc, but is widely required in college.

 

ETA, ok choirfarm, I would require you son to take Calc. I just saw in another thread where he wants to be a CS major. Dh had 3 semesters of calc in his CS degree. If he can't learn calc, he needs to switch degrees. There are other options in computers that are less math intense.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Momto2Ns

[choirfarm]

No, I wouldn't expect that child to take c

 

ETA, ok choirfarm, I would require you son to take Calc. I just saw in another thread where he wants to be a CS major. Dh had 3 semesters of calc in his CS degree. If he can't learn calc, he needs to switch degrees. There are other options in computers that are less math intense.

 

Different child!!! Oldest is the computer science kid. He has self-taught math using Chalkdust . He is currently making an A doing PRe-calc. He took AP Statistics last year as a 10th grader and made a 5 on the exam...

 

I'm sorry, but I can't see my middle child ( who is on his 3rd Geometry program!!!!) even taking AP Stats... I cannot get him to concentrate on math.... And regenetude and ester are saying that EVERY child should have calculus.... The middle child is the one who drew a line for a triangle...

[Kim in SouthGa]

I say look at what the colleges require. I made a chart comparing a few colleges (from local 2 year to state university to ivy) and have tried to meet the highest standard...which did not require Calculus, by the way.

Here's what Harvard has to say about it:

If you are well-versed in algebra, functions, and graphing, secondary school calculus will enable you to take more advanced introductory courses in mathematics, physics, and chemistry in college. But do not rush into calculus. It may surprise you to know that success in first-year quantitative courses at college is determined more by the strength of your proficiency in algebra, functions, and graphing than by whether or not you have studied calculus in secondary school. Courses in the natural and social sciences often depend more on a real understanding of the behavior of different kinds of functions than on the ability to use calculus.

In the last analysis, however, it is not what courses you have taken, but how much you have thought about mathematics, that counts. More important than the knowledge of a specific mathematical topic, is the willingness to tackle new problems. http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/preparing/index.html

 

 

Harvard does want Physics however. Not that we would apply to Harvard. Georgetown, Patrick Henry, and others I've looked at require neither Calculus or Physics.

[FaithManor]

As unrealistic as it was for my kiddo who dislikes math on general principle (his parents having graduate degrees in the subject), I feel that being introduced to Calculus is equivalent to reading Shakespeare. This is part of the Great Conversation which I do not think is confined to history, literature and philosophy.

 

.......

The beauty of homeschooling is that we can adapt our program to our student's interests and their development. And perhaps we need to regroup and occasionally redraw our lines in the sand. After all, there are only a finite number of hours in the day. So much to learn...

 

 

I completely agree about that brain in flux. I've seen it SOOOO much just this year with my 14 year old.

 

As for science, I spend too much time with people who are completely lead astray by junk science...they wouldn't know a good study from an atrociously designed one if it jumped out and bit them on the nose. We live in the scientific age and have a scientifically iliterate society. It's coming back to haunt this country.

 

Science, like mathematics, like grammar, like literary studies, etc. when taught properly, teaches a systematic thought proces....logic.

 

It doesn't matter what my children may want to declare for a major, they will have a minimum of four years science and it begins with biology. We consider physical science to be a middle school level class. Additionally, the curriculum must actually teach science and not just vocabulary to be memorized for the test and summarily forgotten. There are A LOT of science "curriculums" on the market that are not designed to have to retain information from one unit to the next, from one discipline to the next, in order to continue the progression. They are nothing more than vocabulary programs disguised as science "curriculum". So we are pretty choosey here!

 

Additionally, formal logic is a part of our high school core.

 

Because our kids are headed for STEM careers (they would still have to do four years of science and would always include biology with either chem and advanced chem or chem and physics with advanced physics, or both chems and anatomy/physiology, even if they weren't), we specialize in science here which means that electives tend to be in science. We use MIT Opencourseware for filling out their science electives. MIT Opencourseware wasn't around when dd was in high school which means we self-designed her science electives using college texts...it was very time consuming to write her course syllabi, but definitely worth it.

 

Our children are required to have a minimum of one year of fine arts predicated by lessons on an instrument during their elementary/middle years, but generally have more than that....if it's high school music, that's pretty easy for me! My oldest boy is all about art and art history...that has been tougher. I've found an artist to tutor him in pure art, but that person is not interested in teaching art history. So, I've had to take that on myself....it stretches me and I've had to do a huge amount of studying. However, that hasn't been a bad thing at all; it has been time consuming.

 

Foreign language as been tougher. Ideally, I'd like them to have four years of one modern foreign language. But, because my children are all headed for STEM, Latin forms the backbone of our high school language program. It gets the emphasis. Given the number of rigorous science electives my children choose, it makes it difficult to rigorously study a modern foreign language too. Additionally, our oldest boy is headed for a career in anthropology/archaeology - admittedly science but "soft" science - and as a result feels strongly about learning ancient languages. He simply cannot work in three years of high school Latin, 2-3 years of Ancient Greek, and studying Egyptian/ reading and writing hieroglyphics, a summary introduction to ancient Arabic including self-studying Summarian Cuineform and then still manage three or four years of a modern language. There is only so much time in a day and only so much pressure in one subject area that is reasonable to put on a teenager. Thankfully, I've contacted all of the uni's he's serious about, and all of them are thrilled with the Latin and Greek. Phew! He'd be heart broken if I had to remove one of his ancient languages in order to pursue a modern.

 

Again, foreign language is going to be another problem for the next ds. His passion is Icelandic...he wants to be able to read and translate the Volsung Sagas. I can only find two years of high school level Icelandic online and it is not through a college or university. After that, the best we can do his find an internet tutor living in Iceland and I have no idea what to expect in terms of academic rigorousness. He'll fill in his other two years of foreign language with Danish since that is his other passion due to dh's family history. It's not ideal...three years of Latin, two years of Icelandic, two years of Danish. However, I refuse to budge on the Latin - it has served dd amazingly well as a chem/pre-med/paramedic student...I've personally witnessed the value to STEM majors. With eight credits of science on the horizon, math through calculus 1, the Great Books Study, competitive rocketry and robotics teams...we just cannot embrace four years of Danish.

 

Ultimately, I feel that in high school, it's important to get those minimum 16 credits in the core and pursue those as far as you can go with each individual student...the core forms the basis for ALL majors in college. Beyond that, I think it is really important that a student find their academic passion, their drive, the thing that "lights their world" and that their curriculum path be designed to help them pursue that passion. I really believe that students are well served to be allowed some specialization at this stage in their development.

 

Well educated, no matter how many of which subject one chooses, must ultimately must mean - at least in my not so humble opinion - that the student is challenged to think about, dwell on, and write about the Great Debate...the ideas that shape civilizations, cultures, governments, and ideologies. Whatever path one chooses, this should be the end goal...a logical, thinking, mature individual who enthusiastically embraces that ultimate discussion of the ideas that shape our world and affect our lives. Unfortunately, our culture is sadly lacking in this kind of education....hence, very likely why all of us on this board are wrestling with the grueling task of homeschooling for high school! :D

 

Faith

[Melissa B]

One of the best things about homeschooling is being able to customize a child's educational program. I think 4 years of math is wise for a college bound student, but it doesn't have to involve any calculus. My dd 12 struggles a great deal in math. She currently wants to major in music in college. So I currently have this math plan for her.

 

9th - Algebra I

10th - Algebra II or Geometry (or a semester of both)

11th - Intro to Algebra and College Algebra (CC)

12th - Math for Liberal Studies I and II (CC)

 

Plus four credits of Music Theory.

 

She can always take more math in college if it becomes more interesting to her.

[choirfarm]

I wish I had had 4 years of music theory!!!! I dropped calculus my senior year since I knew I was going to be a music major. All I needed was College Algebra in college and it was EASY!!! I was not prepared for theory.. Everyone told me I knew all that I needed to know... I knew more than anyone in my high school and then flunked the entrance exam..... I'm starting my daughter on theory NOW in 4th grade!!!

 

One of the best things about homeschooling is being able to customize a child's educational program. I think 4 years of math is wise for a college bound student, but it doesn't have to involve any calculus. My dd 12 struggles a great deal in math. She currently wants to major in music in college. So I currently have this math plan for her.

 

9th - Algebra I

10th - Algebra II or Geometry (or a semester of both)

11th - Intro to Algebra and College Algebra (CC)

12th - Math for Liberal Studies I and II (CC)

 

Plus four credits of Music Theory.

 

She can always take more math in college if it becomes more interesting to her.

[FaithManor]

I wish I had had 4 years of music theory!!!! I dropped calculus my senior year since I knew I was going to be a music major. All I needed was College Algebra in college and it was EASY!!! I was not prepared for theory.. Everyone told me I knew all that I needed to know... I knew more than anyone in my high school and then flunked the entrance exam..... I'm starting my daughter on theory NOW in 4th grade!!!

 

 

Music theory and aural harmony is the ultimate weeder freshman class. In my class hour, we began the semester with 32 declared music majors. At the end of the first semester, we had 13 still in for the second semester. Beginning sophomore year theory, that number was down to nine. It is a very heady class. I am ever so thankful that my high school piano teacher made me study theory rigorously. I was very prepared, most of the others though fantastic musicians, were 100% UNDERprepared.

 

I don't blame you for starting early.

 

Faith

[Tokyomarie]

The beauty of homeschooling is that we can adapt our program to our student's interests and their development. And perhaps we need to regroup and occasionally redraw our lines in the sand. After all, there are only a finite number of hours in the day. So much to learn...

:iagree:

 

In principle, I am of the opinion that a student should study English, math, science, social sciences, foreign language, and Bible all four years of high school. We come from a very academic family, so my ideal was that our students would do math through calculus. Science would include bio, chem, and physics plus one additional science.

 

In reality, my oldest managed the the kind of program that regentrude & Ester Maria talk about. She did calculus and added statistics, too. She did the three sciences plus 2 semesters of college freshman bio.

 

My next child is 2E and is stronger in the arts. Math & science just didn't click for her in high school. We kept plugging away but she only got through Algebra II. She did bio, chem, and 2 one semester non-traditional elective sciences. You know what? She went to a state university on a full tuition scholarship and studied music. She was extremely successful in her college studies & graduated last May. For this student it work out just fine. Her brain has matured, and if she were to want to tackle more math & science today, I think she could do it, but she wasn't ready in high school to go as far as quickly as her sister did.

 

My third child is dyslexic. Because of various issues in his development, we made the decision to have him go to school after 10th grade to finish high school. I've had to let go of some of my classical-ish ideals for his education. In his program, if all goes well for him, he'll do as many as 3 semesters of community college calculus before he graduates from high school. He'll probably also have his sciences and some computer science courses. OTOH, foreign language will probably go by the wayside because traditional classroom instruction will not likely be successful due to his dyslexia. And, I have to let go of my ideals for his humanities instruction because of letting go of homeschooling. Oh, and forget formal Bible for the last two years since it is a public school.

 

My younger two children's programs have had to be tailored more to their needs, rather than to my ideals. I still have high goals but due to their developmental patterns, I've had to adjust my idea of what is realistic.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Tokyomarie

[Mom22ns]

Different child!!! Oldest is the computer science kid. He has self-taught math using Chalkdust . He is currently making an A doing PRe-calc. He took AP Statistics last year as a 10th grader and made a 5 on the exam...

 

I'm sorry, but I can't see my middle child ( who is on his 3rd Geometry program!!!!) even taking AP Stats... I cannot get him to concentrate on math.... And regenetude and ester are saying that EVERY child should have calculus.... The middle child is the one who drew a line for a triangle...

 

Whew! Then just because some people think everyone in the world needs calculus in high school, doesn't make it true. Don't be afraid to make your son's education fit him. Don't try to make it AP statistics. Just make it statistics. It can prepare him in case he needs to take a college level stats class some day. It doesn't have to be the level of a college stats class. If the colleges he is interested in don't require a fourth year of math, he doesn't have to do it at all.

 

I realize that WTM is about a rigorous liberal arts education, but that doesn't look the same for every person. My oldest has multiple disabilities. He is also 2E so he is very bright, but I definitely tailor his education to fit him. If I couldn't do that, I might as well stick him in our good local public schools. Don't be intimidated by what some do. You determine your own homeschool and follow your children on that. Even SWB has said that you SHOULD tailor high school to your children's interest. She has said she isn't doing four years of all the core subjects with her ds. A great education doesn't look the same for everyone.

[MBM]

Regarding math and science, my son's high school requires a minimum of two years of science: one year of biology and another of physical science -- environmental geoscience, chemistry, physics or an integrated science course.

Most kids take four years of lab science (physics, chemistry, biology). Some take five or six years because at this school, many of the AP science courses must be taken after the non-AP courses. So, in order to take AP Physics, a student must take non-AP physics first. Many kids will take AP courses during the summer that align with what they just studied during the school year, or they will take the non-AP course in summer and then the AP course during the school year.

All students must take four years of math but the tracks vary. At a minimum, a student will take 1) Algebra 1, 2) Plane Geometry, 3) Algebra 2, and 4) College Algebra and Probability/Statistics. At the other end, the school offers AP Stats and Mulivariable Calculus/Linear Algebra. The computer science courses are considered math enrichment and cannot take the place of math courses.

[beaners]

I feel that being introduced to Calculus is equivalent to reading Shakespeare. This is part of the Great Conversation which I do not think is confined to history, literature and philosophy.

 

Would you mind if I printed this out and stuck it on my refrigerator? I love this.

[Jane in NC]

Would you mind if I printed this out and stuck it on my refrigerator? I love this.

 

:D When my son was in high school, he would have thought that lines like this belonged in the trash can. Now that he is older and wiser (a sophomore in college), he has thanked me for prodding him through Calculus. But that is only because he has fulfilled a quantitative requirement at college.

[Night Elf]

I'm afraid I'm not as saavy as some of the well educated posters on this board. Our high school program has a set of requirements in which to graduate and it is nearly the same as what our colleges want to see. Our university system even clearly states what classes within each subject. For example, in Science, of the 3 required classes, one must be a lab course in Biology and one must be a lab course in physical science. The 3rd class is left up to the student. In Math, of the 4 required classes, they expect Algebra 1, 2 and Geometry. The 4th class is left up to the student. So while there is room for these upper courses such as Physics and Calculus, they aren't required to be admitted into college. I'm happy with that because I would completely disagree with preventing a student from going to college because some high school courses are too complex for one's studying. I'm a senior in college and I still would not be able to handle those two classes.

 

In college, once the general education requirements have been met by all students, the rest of the classes are dictated by major. I don't see why high school should be different from that really. There are so many classes that a student can take and since it's impossible to take all of them, it only makes sense to take the ones that are of interest and especially ones that can help towards a goal. For example, my dd13 is taking a Psychology course that will count as an elective. She wants to be a psychologist and she needed to be exposed to some basic theories to see if her interest held up. She's going to take Sociology next. However, my ds15 will not be taking either of those. His plan includes other classes.

 

My goal is to get my kids into a state college. We're obviously not headed to the Ivy walls, which I guess would expect higher level academics. Our family is more along the lines of the Average Joe set. There is nothing shameful in that.

[SailorMom]

DS will be starting high school in the Fall, and I'm still thinking our options through...

 

Here is what I think will be what we end up with (keeping in mind he wants to be a vet):

 

4 years of lab sciences

An additional 2 years of non-lab science

4 years of English, composition, poetry, literature, etc.

2 years of a foreign language, minimum

4 years of history

1/2 year economics, 1/2 year government

Some sort of phys ed mixed in there (still working on that....)

4 years of math - in 9th he'll be in geometry, we'll go from there

2 years of some sort of liberal arts (music, art, drama, etc.)

Electives to fill in the gaps

[EKS]

A kid getting a high school diploma from me would be required to take:

 

4 years of English

4 years of math

4 years of history/social science

4 years of science including biology, chemistry, and physics

4 years of a foreign language

And at least 4 more credits

[MBM]

What are the pros and cons of taking the AP course over the summer after the reg ed course and waiting to take the exam vs doing the extra for the AP course while taking the reg ed course taking the exam that May? I'm looking at the latter, as reg ed chem is extremely easy here, so ds would have the time.

 

I'm not 100% sure of the advantages, but I think it's offered for kids who want to take a lot of science in high school. Some of the kids who do Science Olympiad could probably handle it and then sit for the exam later in the year, so I suppose it's for really motivated kids with a good memory. Then during the regular school year, they could take a different science course. (The high school here offers a lot of difference science courses.)

Most kids will take the non-AP course and follow it up with the AP course during the school year. My son is probably only going to take AP Physics in his senior year, but he won't need to take it during summer.

I believe Northwestern U offers something similiar to high schoolers in their Accelerated Summer Option, which is a 9-week course taken in summer that would normally be taught during a school year. From what I've heard about those classes, students largely teach themselves with very little teacher guidance.

[Jenny in Florida]

My son will be required to keep making progress.

 

He's forging his own path, though. For one thing, he wants to finish high school in three years. But he also wants to keep open the possibility of going to a selective university. He has said for several years that he is headed for a liberal arts degree but has just recently suggested he might want to do something techy. He is bringing a few credits into his high school years, because he has done some high school classes online already. So, his plan currently looks something like this:

 

Four years of English -

- 1 regular credit this year

- 1 regular credit next year

- Additional .5 credit next year

- 1 regular credit year 3

- Additional .5 credit year 3

 

Four years of math -

- 1 credit this year

- 1 credit this summer/first semester of next year (algebra II)

- 1 credit second semester of next year/next summer (precalc)

- 1 credit year 3 (calculus)

(He took algebra I, geometry and a math elective in middle school.)

 

Four years of science, including two or three labs -

- 1 credit carried over from 8th grade (technically with labs, but pretty light)

- 1 credit this year (with labs)

- 1 credit next year (chemistry, with labs)

- 1 credit year 3 (probably physics, with labs)

 

Three years of social science -

- 1 credit World History this year

- 1 credit next year (not yet decided)

- 1 credit year 3 (probably American Government/Economics)

 

Two years of foreign language

- Spanish 1 this year

- Spanish 2 next year

 

Finishing in three years will have him graduating at 16 and being "done" a year before his local friends. I'm strongly encouraging him to plan on doing a year at the local community college, probably working on a certificate program in a field that interests him. Since that program doesn't require a full two semesters, that would also give him a chance to fill in any prerequisites he might be missing before applying to his chosen four-year university.

 

This one has big dreams but not a lot of follow-though capability at the moment. I figure, at some point, if he's serious about the big stuff, motivation will kick in and he'll get focused. Otherwise, he'll at least have a basic, solid foundation just doing what I give him.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Jenny in Florida

[MamaT]

These are my requirements for graduating:

 

4 credits of English/Composition

4 credits of History

4 credits of Math (I have only had one child complete Calculus at home, and one more that will probably do so. The others went through Pre-Calc).

4 credits of History

4 credits of Science with labs (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, one more of their choice)

2 credits of Latin

2 credits of a modern language

1 credit of Formal Logic

1 credit of Art/Music History

1 credit of Religious Studies

.5 credit of Government

.5 credit of Economics/Personal Finance

.5 credit of Philosophy

 

Electives they choose.

 

Other requirements are a list of life skills that do not count towards credits. Things like changing a tire, regular car maintenance, basic cooking, etc.