s/o waiter/waitress tips...rant

[Caroline]

At nicer restaurants we've been served wine by a wine steward.

 

That, too, and I am betting the waitress has to tip him/her.

[lillysmom216]

I'm going to take my MBA and my Sommelier Certification ( A three year process) to bed now and hope that I receive a gift bestowed upon me when I go to work tomorrow. As an aside, the control to not type what I truly want to has been provided to me, tuition free, by the esteemed school of Public Dealing.

So... with all the tips threads, I thought I would look up what I have always wondered about. I grew up hearing that you need to tip well b/c waiters don't get paid much, etc. However, my sister waitresses and makes a TON of money. I also knew people who quit teaching school b/c they made more $ waitressing than they did teaching!! Now, I've never been a waitress, so maybe I am mis-informed on how difficult of a job it is, but that just seems ridiculous to me. I just looked it up and here in CA, waiters get at least minimum wage plus tips - which usually means that they will earn $20-30/hr. And, many get benefits as well ... Is it just me, or does something not seem right? It's a profession which requires no further education, and yet we are "expected" to tip? ... Sorry, I have an issue with expected tips to begin with as I feel that tipping should be an added gift/bonus for a job well done, not just a social expectation. So to find out that they make that much $ kind of frustrates me. Am I the only one, or do I need to be slapped upside the head? I truly wish that restaurants and other establishments would simply include the pay for tips and products as a whole and that we didn't have to deal with tips at all...

 

(FYI, I own a high $ service oriented business- but would never even think about expecting tips - nor do I want my clients to do so. We do get tips, but I don't care one way or another if they tip or how much. I simply care that they like the product provided. I charge what I want to be paid. Seems simple to me.)

[butterflymommy]

I can completely empathize with not wanting to enter a situation without knowing what it will cost. I absolutely hate it when items are not clearly marked in a store, for instance. Or when a handyman gives a quote, but halfway into the job finds extras he hadn't noticed during the quote. :mad:

 

Yet I struggle to see the correlation with tipping servers. It's known/ accepted that tips are part of the restaurant process. If you don't like tipping servers, there are many other venues for eating out or obtaining prepared foods. We're way too frugal for restaurants and the tipping is part of why we avoid them. For us getting takeout is a big deal (and we drive to pick it up ourselves).

 

I also don't understand being annoyed that people with limited education are making good money... where I live the trash collectors can make six figure salaries with overtime. And I don't think they have an ivy league degree :D. But I would never begrudge them their salary.

[Happy]

Have you ever lived in a place where tipping is not the norm? The difference in level of service is massive.

 

 

 

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I have lived in Europe and found the non-tipping service to be EXCELLENT. In fact, I wish we had both the non-tipping and the quiet, professional service. I totally dislike the Chatty Cathy wait staff (men or women) who try to become your best buddy and hurry, hurry, hurry you through the meal. It's not about service, it's about the tip to them. Blech.

[Lisbeth]

I have never put this much thought into eating out. I have a headache now and have decided that we will never eat anywhere again that requires a tip. :lol:

 

This. Honestly, I like our homemade meals. My family doesn't need to tip me, the food is tried and true for us, I know the ingredients, service is efficient, better ingredients for less. A lot like homeschooling. ;)

 

If a server is worth more, then the employer should be paying that. Prices could reflect that. I would also prefer this. Tipping should be outright optional and I would prefer set prices that are higher.

[Hannah C.]

Hannah, we live very close (I say this in a non-creepy way!), so I know well how this area can support the food service industry. It really upsets me that your dh can't get full time. This area is like the Mecca of Overeaters Anonymous. Restaurants here are constantly busy, and I know a lot of them are making a ton of money, but they won't take care of their workers.

 

It's both a good and a bad thing. Bad, because he can't get insurance through his job. Good, because thanks to Obamacare and being under 26, he can be on his parents' insurance - which is probably better than the restaurant's insurance. :D Also, I should clarify - he works 30-39 (and occasionally 40+) hours a week. He just isn't classified as a full-time employee.

 

On a more serious note, it stinks that companies have basically full-time employees that don't get recognized as such. I saw that happen at the grocery store I worked at in high school, as well - people would be told to stop working on the clock at 39.5 hours. I don't know if they kept working off the clock or if they were sent home.

 

Ok, here's where tipping doesn't make a lot of sense to me:

 

A couple goes out to a casual place, get the veggie fajitas to share (it's a two-person platter), and drink water because they feel it's healthy. Bill comes to $15 plus tax. Server brings water, refills them, brings all the dishes that go along with fajitas, takes order, cleans up. Tip at 20% could be $3.

 

A couple goes to a fancy place, get steak dinners, and drink wine. The plates are $30 each and the wine is $40. Server does perhaps the same amount of work as at the fajita place, or probably somewhat less. Tip at 20% is $20. And what if they had ordered the $80 bottle of wine? Why would that be worth an extra $8 for the server? Did they really do anything extra to deserve it?

 

So why the huge difference? Does one deserve it more than the other, just because they found a job at a fancier restaurant? People should be able to use their discretion.

 

Another difference that no one has mentioned is that the waiter is probably getting taxed on the presumed % tip of the bill, regardless of whether or not you pay that tip.

 

What if it were a couple and the bill was $150? Maybe they would normally tip 20% on their usual $50 bill, but this is just too much for them so they will simply tip $20 and call it good? It has nothing to do with numbers of people and everything to do with individuals and how they tip, well or poorly. But some want to look at my family and assume that we won't tip well because other groups don't? If we were a family of 7, that would be fine. But wow, add on that extra kid and now all of a sudden, we might not be responsible enough to tip on the whole bill because other people might not.

 

I'm sorry. Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to me in terms of mixed groups, as I have stated over and over, but it doesn't make sense to me when it is a family - parents with their children. It can be explained 18 different ways, but at the end, it is the same - large group (regardless of make up) can't be trusted to tip appropriately. Therefore, family of 8 can't be trusted to tip appropriately.

 

As the wife of a waiter, and the oldest of 10 children, I honestly do not believe that this policy was intended to be discriminatory towards large families or to you in particular. As others have already said, it may even be an automatic thing in the system - party of 8, gratuity added, done.

 

Large parties (NOT talking about 8 people here, just a general statement) require a lot more effort on the part of the waiter. That's a lot of drinks to keep track of, a lot of orders, a lot of people wanting things, a lot of STUFF to keep track of. Plus, the large party is taking up several tables and a lot of the waiter's time and attention. If he's taking an order, and someone else is sat in his section and has to wait 5 minutes for him to be done and get to them, they may well decide they haven't received proper service and dock his tip. Large parties stay for longer periods of time, typically, which means fewer tables for that waiter. Cleanup will be a lot more intense, as well. It's a large investment on the waiter's part (and for those to whom the waiter may be required to tip out). Adding a gratuity is a way to protect the waiter from expending all this time and energy, only to be greeted with an insulting tip. Restaurants have to set a cut-off for when this gratuity will be added. Some choose 8. That's all it is. The reason they don't do it for smaller parties is because smaller parties typically do not do all the above.

[cindergretta]

In the instance when it happened to us, the manager (probably lying again) said it isn't added on in the system, that the server has to go to a supervisor and have it added on.

 

And what you posted isn't any different than what anyone else posted. It is the same basic premise, the same basic idea. And I still disagree with it, wholly. And find it silly to boot, as it is apparently not enforceable and invokes irritation and lower tips from those upon whom it is imposed. If it isn't enforceable, and tips are still legally optional, adding it on seems like a bad idea. It isn't protecting the server from a bad tip, since it doesn't have to be paid and folks in this thread who disagree with it have all said they pay it, and it is less than what they would leave if left on their own to decide. And that includes dh and me. So, from a customer service stand point, it seems like a lousy idea.

[Hannah C.]

In the instance when it happened to us, the manager (probably lying again) said it isn't added on in the system, that the server has to go to a supervisor and have it added on.

 

And what you posted isn't any different than what anyone else posted. It is the same basic premise, the same basic idea. And I still disagree with it, wholly. And find it silly to boot, as it is apparently not enforceable and invokes irritation and lower tips from those upon whom it is imposed. If it isn't enforceable, and tips are still legally optional, adding it on seems like a bad idea. It isn't protecting the server from a bad tip, since it doesn't have to be paid and folks in this thread who disagree with it have all said they pay it, and it is less than what they would leave if left on their own to decide. And that includes dh and me. So, from a customer service stand point, it seems like a lousy idea.

 

I hope the manager wouldn't lie about that. I'm not familiar with restaurant systems either way.

 

I suppose adding a tip to the bill must work in some cases, otherwise most restaurants wouldn't have that provision in their menus. Perhaps they figure that those who are offended and give less balance out those who wouldn't give the proper amount? I don't know. I do understand how it can be found offensive. :grouphug:

 

I've never been the person paying for such a large group, but if I was and a gratuity was added, I would bump it up to whatever I was planning on tipping regardless. I'm not going to penalize the waiter for a restaurant policy. I'm not offended that others choose to give only the required gratuity however.

[extendedforecast]

OP, since you always tip 20% or more, maybe it would be better to choose not to see the mandatory gratuity as an insult to your large family, but as a discount since the gratuity is less than the amount that you regularly tip. Yay, you save 2%!!

 

Another thing I feel compelled to point out is that these policies come into existence for a reason. There must be a high percentage of large parties who do not tip appropriately for such a policy to come into place. Sure, your family may be the exception, but the other 8+ parties who undertipped the hard-working servers ruined it for the rest of us. A restaurant we used to frequent started charging for water cups because they were losing money to people who would ask for a free cup for water, only to fill it with soda. We chose not to go there anymore because we can't justify the expense of paying an extra $12 ($2x6 cups) for water. (we don't drink soda, and this restaurant only offers soda)

 

Finally, while a server job does not require a college education, it does require a higher skill set. I tried to wait tables, and I failed. I was too weak and uncoordinated to carry the trays, I couldn't go the whole shift without needing a snack break (hypoglycemia), I found that dealing with people non-stop was not for me, etc. I could go on and on. I would get home exhausted physically and mentally. My husband, on the other hand was very successful at it. He worked very hard for every penny me made, and he sacrificed evenings, weekends and some holidays to support us at that time (we were newly married and had a baby) so that I could stay home with our daughter. I'm happy for the servers in your state. I hope they continue to make decent wages, though I know that not all restaurants are equal.

[ChristyB in TN]

In the instance when it happened to us, the manager (probably lying again) said it isn't added on in the system, that the server has to go to a supervisor and have it added on.

 

And what you posted isn't any different than what anyone else posted. It is the same basic premise, the same basic idea. And I still disagree with it, wholly. And find it silly to boot, as it is apparently not enforceable and invokes irritation and lower tips from those upon whom it is imposed. If it isn't enforceable, and tips are still legally optional, adding it on seems like a bad idea. It isn't protecting the server from a bad tip, since it doesn't have to be paid and folks in this thread who disagree with it have all said they pay it, and it is less than what they would leave if left on their own to decide. And that includes dh and me. So, from a customer service stand point, it seems like a lousy idea.

 

I haven't read all the posts, who the heck could? This one is LOOOOOONG! I haven't waited tables in years but I remember that large families tended to tip a few dollars instead of a percentage of the check. The fact that the waiter followed the normal working protocol of the restaurant and wasn't supported by his manager was pretty sad. However, if I owned that restaurant I would have supported the manager who called you and got your business back, I'm sure. I totally understand your frustrations, I hate that policy, too. I dislike having to look at the check so closely so I don't accidentally tip when the tip has been added, which I've done. :tongue_smilie:

I remember working my butt off and just hoping a family would do the right thing. It is so frustrating when they don't. I had usually pulled together a few tables for them to sit together and therefore had lost the opportunity to wait on smaller, most likely larger tipping tables. We used to tip the hostess extra not to sit families or people leaving church on Sunday because they were usually irritable and non tippers! I always felt it was the fact that they were wearing pantyhose and had probably been forced to sit for too long before they got to me, but that's just me... I made a little over 2 and hour and had to tip every other blasted person in the place. Also, I was paid that 2 and hour for an hour or so after I was seated any tables at all so I could clean and set up for the following shift. Often I had to show up at least an hour before I was seated any tipping tables to attend a goof ball meeting where we discussed the menu or rule infractions.

I recommend the book "Nickel and Dimed" because it is an eye opener. The restaurant industry isn't perfect, we all wish things cost less than they do. NOT tipping the staff and having a set price for everything wouldn't make anything less expensive but it would save you the trouble of having to make a decision at the end of a meal. Not worth the effort of complaining, in my opinion.

Also, because I'm up too early and it isn't time to go to work yet, consider the fact that we are always selling ourselves. What we tip, the time we take everyday to complain, the effort we put in to negativity and the way we present ourselves to people we may never see again...all this goes in to WHO WE ARE, our brand. We must always sell ourselves to the people around us. It costs a little but if you tip someone the appropriate amount you have good energy all day and so does that person. When you come back in to the restaurant, they will remember and you will have a friend.

[Joanne]

I guess I could be considered "highly educated" now. I don't understand the thought that people with lesser education should make "x" amount and decent hourly rates limited to "x" people.

 

Wait staff rarely work 8 hour shifts or 5 days a week.

 

If being wait staff was long term profitable and rewarding, there would be more people who are professional wait staff. Instead, it tends to be teens, young adults, and people in career transition or there life dictates a job with minimal education or they need supplemental income.

[Joanne]

Ok, here's where tipping doesn't make a lot of sense to me:

 

A couple goes out to a casual place, get the veggie fajitas to share (it's a two-person platter), and drink water because they feel it's healthy. Bill comes to $15 plus tax. Server brings water, refills them, brings all the dishes that go along with fajitas, takes order, cleans up. Tip at 20% could be $3.

 

A couple goes to a fancy place, get steak dinners, and drink wine. The plates are $30 each and the wine is $40. Server does perhaps the same amount of work as at the fajita place, or probably somewhat less. Tip at 20% is $20. And what if they had ordered the $80 bottle of wine? Why would that be worth an extra $8 for the server? Did they really do anything extra to deserve it?

 

So why the huge difference? Does one deserve it more than the other, just because they found a job at a fancier restaurant? People should be able to use their discretion.

 

Training and resume. Seriously, the finer eating establishments rarely higher first time wait persons. You do have to work your way up from the fajita place to a more formal establishment.

[Joanne]

On the "large party" automatically added tip:

 

From a functional standpoint, large parties take more work than several smaller tables. It's more difficult to take the orders, cook and process the food, deliver the food and keep up with other wait-related activities. Having a large party limits the wait staff from adequately serving other tables, so good establishments tend to reduce the other tables for that staff when a large party is present. Reducing tables = reducing pay. The automatic tip is to ensue adquate pay under that context.

[extendedforecast]

Training and resume. Seriously, the finer eating establishments rarely higher first time wait persons. You do have to work your way up from the fajita place to a more formal establishment.

 

This is true. DH had to provide a resume with referencesy to apply at fine dining restaurants. Several times, he was told to get more experience and re-apply.

[extendedforecast]

On the "large party" automatically added tip:

 

From a functional standpoint, large parties take more work than several smaller tables. It's more difficult to take the orders, cook and process the food, deliver the food and keep up with other wait-related activities. Having a large party limits the wait staff from adequately serving other tables, so good establishments tend to reduce the other tables for that staff when a large party is present. Reducing tables = reducing pay. The automatic tip is to ensue adquate pay under that context.

 

:iagree: In my earlier post, I didn't even go there with this information because the OP (I think) remained convinced that the 8+ gratuity policy assumed that large families were lousy tippers, despite this information being mentioned several times throughout the thread.

[extendedforecast]

I guess I could be considered "highly educated" now. I don't understand the thought that people with lesser education should make "x" amount and decent hourly rates limited to "x" people.

 

Wait staff rarely work 8 hour shifts or 5 days a week.

 

If being wait staff was long term profitable and rewarding, there would be more people who are professional wait staff. Instead, it tends to be teens, young adults, and people in career transition or there life dictates a job with minimal education or they need supplemental income.

 

:iagree: with the bolded especially.

[Sun]

:iagree: In my earlier post, I didn't even go there with this information because the OP (I think) remained convinced that the 8+ gratuity policy assumed that large families were lousy tippers, despite this information being mentioned several times throughout the thread.

 

I think everyone has forgotten that the OP was complaining about tipping in general. It was someone else (Cindergreta?) who was complaining about the automatic gratuity charge being applied to large families.

[angela in ohio]

On the "large party" automatically added tip:

 

From a functional standpoint, large parties take more work than several smaller tables. It's more difficult to take the orders, cook and process the food, deliver the food and keep up with other wait-related activities. Having a large party limits the wait staff from adequately serving other tables, so good establishments tend to reduce the other tables for that staff when a large party is present. Reducing tables = reducing pay. The automatic tip is to ensue adquate pay under that context.

 

Yep. And they tend to stay longer, which means fewer table turnovers.

[mommymilkies]

I try to tip really well. If I had a good server, they get good money. If I had poor service, they get very little or nothing. We recently had a TERRIBLE experience at a restaurant (chain) where we waited over an hour and a half for our food (this was not a "nice" restaurant, btw), were given the wrong food and told to deal with it until I made a fuss (pancakes when we are gf for Celiacs!!!!!), etc. We did not tip. We were so angry by the time we left that my very non-confrontational dh actually contacted district and complained formally.

[elegantlion]

I try to tip really well. If I had a good server, they get good money. If I had poor service, they get very little or nothing. We recently had a TERRIBLE experience at a restaurant (chain) where we waited over an hour and a half for our food (this was not a "nice" restaurant, btw), were given the wrong food and told to deal with it until I made a fuss (pancakes when we are gf for Celiacs!!!!!), etc. We did not tip. We were so angry by the time we left that my very non-confrontational dh actually contacted district and complained formally.

 

:svengo: I hope you get at least a free meal out of it.

 

We once went to IHOP and waited and waited for our food. The server was busy with a problem customer who thought it was just fun to send her food back at least four times. You could tell she was out with her girlfriends and trying to be, I don't know, acting all special or something. Girl, you're at IHOP!

 

So I was trying to explain to ds how the server was being gracious to her (we were sitting right next to them) and me trying placate this hungry child. He looks at the placemat on the table. Their motto was come hungry, leave happy or something like that. With his crayons he crossed out the happy part and wrote hungry: come hungry, leave hungry.

[Tree House Academy]

As a waitress in 1999, I made $2.30 per hour plus tips. So did the people who were much older than me. If it weren't for tips, the job wouldn't have been worth going to each day.

 

As forit being hard work...it wasn't mentally challenging, but definitely labor intensive. I weighed 105 pounds when I worked in a restaurant and couldn't have gained weight if I wanted to. I ran my tail off to please the picky, cruel, and often ungrateful public. That in itself made it a sucky job!