AP's: Your idea or your child's

[Kirsten in MO]

Just wondering if all of moms with kids taking AP classes/courses, either at public school or online, are REQUIRING them or are they the student's choice?

My boys seem to show no initiative to take AP courses, so I guess I am trying to decide whether I should make them or not. My oldest only took one AP test, and that was because he was already doing the Sonlight British lit course (which is not an official AP course) which claims to prepare you for the AP, so I made him take the test. He scored a 4, so we were happy. Just talked to my neice (senior) over the holidays, and she took one AP her freshman year, two her junior year, and is taking four this year (her choice).

 

How can I stir up interest in my boys to try an AP class? Or, should I just make them?

 

Kirsten

[Home'scool]

I guess I *made* my kids. But the theme of "you need to take the hardest course possible" was one that I started in 9th grade because of the college aspirations.

 

Having AP's done just makes things soooo much easier; acceptance rates, scholarship money, tuition credit.

 

One college my daughter applied to is over $1000 a credit. If she can test out of some of the Intro classes because of her AP's it will save her time and MONEY.

[OLG]

My ds would 'never' have requested to do AP's! Yes, we were doing the most challenging curriculum and he could have taken tons of AP's but I only pushed for the first one (AP Biology) and then he took the test for one after taking an online AP course. After that, I backed off. I would skip them entirely going forward and do college credits instead next time around. College courses give grades which contribute to GPA (AP's don't contribute). Of course, we have no community colleges here just a university. I might reconsider if that were not the case. Bottom line: public school kids are taking AP's, I think, because they offer the more challenging courses and they are advised to do so to bring up the reputation of the school (ha!). I'd be surprised if many homeschooled kids request to do AP's on their own w/o outside influence.

[Kirsten in MO]

My ds would 'never' have requested to do AP's! Yes, we were doing the most challenging curriculum and he could have taken tons of AP's but I only pushed for the first one (AP Biology) and then he took the test for one after taking an online AP course. After that, I backed off. I would skip them entirely going forward and do college credits instead next time around. College courses give grades which contribute to GPA (AP's don't contribute). Of course, we have no community colleges here just a university. I might reconsider if that were not the case. Bottom line: public school kids are taking AP's, I think, because they offer the more challenging courses and they are advised to do so to bring up the reputation of the school (ha!). I'd be surprised if many homeschooled kids request to do AP's on their own w/o outside influence.

 

My oldest did his one AP as a junior, but because we too live in a university town (Universtiy of Central Missouri) he took 4 classes there his senior year -Calc I and II, Statistics, and Economics. That seemed more practical than any more APs, and because UCM is a four year universtiy, Auburn gave him credit for all them without any fuss. Maybe that is the better route for my other two as well?

 

It makes me feel better that other homeschool kids are not "begging" to do APs!!

__________________

[CAMom]

I leave it to my kids to decide. I guess I figure it's their life and their goals so their decision. I definitely give my advice and then leave it to them.

 

My oldest is super smart. Scored very high on the SAT and now goes to a selective college. He was not interested at all in AP classes. He flat out didn't want to put the work into it.

 

My dd is currently a sophomore and wants to take a boatload of AP classes. She's extraodinarily motivated and can handle the work. So, I'm helping her schedule them in.

 

I look at what the goals of each student and advise them from there.:)

[dirty ethel rackham]

I guess I *made* my kids. But the theme of "you need to take the hardest course possible" was one that I started in 9th grade because of the college aspirations.

 

Having AP's done just makes things soooo much easier; acceptance rates' date=' scholarship money, tuition credit.

.[/quote']

 

This was our goal as well. I knew my oldest was capable of high level work. I also knew that he needed outside deadlines and grading as well. We didn't do every AP possible because I knew that some were not a good fit for his interests/talents. We also took college classes at the local LAC, which has a reduced tuition program for talented high school students ($150/credit hour). This has helped him get the top scholarships at the schools he applied to. Also, having over 30 credit hours under his belt will help him get a double major or a minor to help earn top graduate school stipends.

[Sunshine State Sue]

My ds would 'never' have requested to do AP's!

I don't even think my son knows what AP classes are.

 

We are fortunate to be able to dual enroll at the CC for free in 10th-12th grade. When ds wanted to homeschool high school, attending CC starting in 10th grade was an agreement we made.

 

That said, the CC doesn't really have much in the way of history besides US. I plan on having ds take AP history via PA Hs'ers in 11th and 12th. Frankly, if I could find an online asynchronous secular non-AP history course, I don't know that I'd consider AP. Not asking for much, am I?

 

At our local high school, the AP test scores are nothing to be proud of. Just because schools offer them and students take them, doesn't mean that they do well on them.

[Trilliums]

We have only recently talked about AP classes. DS #1 dual enrolls at the local public school (9th grader) and the topic came up when we were going over the science classes offered. Currently he plans to eventually take AP Chem and AP Physics at the high school because they are subjects that interest him.

 

Any suggestions for good online secular courses in AP World History? I am beginning to think that sounds like a great solution to his Social Studies next year! Pretty sure he would agree to take it.

 

My younger son would be more hesitant to take AP classes, but would generally go along with whatever DH and I urge him to do.

 

ETA: PA Homeschoolers! Thanks

Edited December 30, 2011 by Trilliums

[creekland]

It's kind of a joint decision here and we don't do many of them. With my middle son I wish I had suggested a couple more, but not having many hasn't seemed to hurt him in the long run.

 

Youngest might do one or two his junior year. We'll see.

[Muttichen]

We require our kids to have National AP Scholar (eight tests with fours or fives on all of them) by the end of junior year. Several of my older children complained about this early on, but changed their minds when it was time to apply for college and they decided they wanted to try for Ivies. My husband and I think we should give our kids an education that keeps all of the doors open for them and that has worked well. If we left it up to the kids, by the time they got motivated it would be too late to be competitive for the highly selective schools. Some of my kids have taken more APs beyond what we require, and that has been their choice.

[flyingiguana]

If you had the choice, college classes are likely a better option than AP.

 

But plenty of kids get into college without either one.

 

I didn't push AP tests all that much for my first daughter. She wanted to take the AP US History test because all her friends were. She wanted to prove she could do it too. But the credit hasn't done her any good at all. I pushed her to take the AP Calc test as it then allowed her take college physics while she was still in high school. This put her a year ahead in her major, which will allow her to do a second major if she wants. She wasn't happy about the calc test, but she did see the utility of it.

 

AP isn't all that the College Board says it is. There are getting to be more colleges that don't take them for credit, and lots of professors don't have a very high opinion of them. I keep hearing stories from professors about kids who placed out of one class or another based on a good AP score, who turned out not to really have the background to do the work in later classes.

 

They seem to work best as nonmajors credit. But even then, they may not do the student much good in terms of getting out of taking classes (and therefore paying less).

 

I'm planning on pushing my 2nd daughter to take the AP Calc test, because it does seem that that translates into something. But we're not going to bother with things like biology and history. We haven't decided about chemistry yet. For the school she's looking most seriously at, she'd have to get a 5 on the test to get a full year of credit. If she gets a 4, she'd get a semester of credit, and then have to take the 2nd semester of chemistry. This strikes me as just asking for trouble.

 

For admissions to highly selective schools, AP might be useful, but my impression is that actual college courses are more meaningful to admissions. Also, while a couple AP tests might be a nice thing to add to an admissions package, more than that probably doesn't tell the college anything extra.

 

Also, I wouldn't require a kid to take an AP test if they weren't at least somewhat on board with the idea. If it's not their thing, they won't study, and there's no sense paying all that money for a crummy score and a deflated ego.

 

But my kids long ago decided they weren't going to apply to Ivy League schools. They know too many kids who have gone that route. Those who were admitted and went weren't always, well, the sharpest knives in the drawer.

[Kirsten in MO]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond to my post. It is always interesting to see the various perspectives on these things. I guess I am thinking that colleges sort of expect the "serious" students to take AP's, and that if a kid graduates with none, then, well, he/she must not be a high achiever. My only experience is with the one my oldest son did at home, but I would assume that an AP course taken online or at ps would be beneficial just for the rigour that it provides? Good practice for college rigour? I don't know; it just seems so ordinary to take just "regular" high school courses. Nothing stands out with that anymore...

 

My own thoughts are that since there is a university in my town, the best way to get your feet wet, so to speak, is to take a class or two in the senior year and see how it goes. It worked well for my oldest, but each of my boys is so different...my middle son has no clue what he wants to do, so he will probably be going to our local university anyway and living at home to save money. He's taken one ACT and scored a 26, not stellar but not bad either. He wants to take it at least once more, but would need to get at least a 30 to get really good money. My youngest wants to go to Universtiy of Oklahoma for meterology, so I am thinking he needs some AP's or something to help his transcript look reasonably competitive. But, the academic enthusiasm is just not there, at least not yet. However, according to several of the responses, AP's were expected, and the kids survived...

 

So much to ponder, so little time! :001_smile:

 

~Kirsten

[Joan in GE]

When we first started doing AP's I was pushing them. By the end, my son wanted to do them. They are also required over here for university entry though.

 

We don't have any option of doing CC courses here - they would be better if they are of a good quality.

 

Even if they weren't required, if we didn't have a CC option, I would have wanted my ds to do them as

 

1. he likes to take tests and is motivated to study for them and will therefore learn more (hopefully)

 

2. I do much more work on the course and so think that he gets a better education.:)

 

For my dd, I'm not so sure...but then again, when ds was in 8th grade, I hadn't imagined how he would mature in the next 3 years.

 

Joan

[memphispeg]

Dd took the AP route last year but, tests rather horribly. We abandoned the idea this year but, I have used many of the testing and review materials as guides for tests and curricula. The essay portions of the tests have proven especially valuable as homework and project bases. She is more relaxed and enjoys learning the material without the onus of a "test" of such great proportions hanging over her head. I like the essay portions of the tests v. much. Dd has done some great writing using them.

Eldest dd went to ps. All the "cool kids" were loaded up w/AP classes. She did well on the tests/subjects that interested her and just ok in the rest. She enjoys the product/project-based learning that her SLAC offers. Her transcript was an impressive-looking one by the end of high school. This may have helped her acceptance/financial aid at the competitive schools she applied to.

[creekland]

I guess I am thinking that colleges sort of expect the "serious" students to take AP's, and that if a kid graduates with none, then, well, he/she must not be a high achiever.

 

~Kirsten

 

At a couple of group info sessions we've attended prospects asked if having AP courses would help their application. They were told no, but the reason (in both cases) was rather telling... "No, because EVERYBODY has them." One was a private school and the other was a state school respected for STEM majors.

 

Personally, I know not everybody has them as students in our school don't even have that option, but then again, students at our school seldom fare well when applying to upper level colleges. They do fine at lower level colleges.

 

Adcoms and professors have told me they prefer to see AP to CC classes as CC classes are too variable to trust the content. With an AP score (not just class) they have an idea of what was covered since it's standardized. The vast majority in a major will tell one not to skip any classes (via AP or CC), but the classes are decent for testing out of classes outside the major - freeing up credits for other classes. Many schools will have their own placement tests for math and languages to assist with getting into the right class. They don't tend to have them for some of the other AP courses.

[TiaTia]

DD is very excited about taking the AP US History exam this spring, and has been making plans to take others in her next 3 years of high school. She likes challenges and is motivated by having choices. Boy-oh-boy, it's going to get ugly when she realizes she can attend only one college at a time.

[katilac]

We start high school next year. I will require them to take classes at the level they can perform - AP or not, no one gets to take an easier class just because they are not interested or self-motivated. Not testing well, or not wanting to skip certain classes, are not valid either, because you can take an AP class and either not take the test or not use the results to skip a class.

 

I would discuss various classes and choices with my kids, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to "stir up interest" in AP or other honors courses. Think about it - sure, some teens are competitive and self-motivated, but can we really expect most of them to say oh, yes, please, let's schedule the hardest classes possible, and the more work, the better!

 

Yes, I know some teens will indeed say that. I have one of them myself. I also have another who is just as capable, but who would never volunteer for "extra" work! But I don't think 13-yr-olds should be given free reign to make such long-term decisions. They may feel very differently at 17, but they can't go back and take those harder courses at that time.

[Barbara H]

We did a mix of AP and college courses. They met different needs but both valid ones. I wouldn't dismiss the value of APs for many students. At many schools, including some high selective ones, they can give students quite a lot of credit. And, of course they are a good way to show outside validation of the transcript. For just an AP bio score our state flagship granted credits worth about $4,000. We had about a $150 investment ($86 for the test and the remainder for used textbook, and virtual labs).