When they don't follow your plan--changing of expectations (long, but important)

[Adrienne_in_TX]

I don't post often, but do lurk quite a bit for opinions and info. I just thought I could share my situation and see if the corporate wisdom of the group might give me some insight or quell my concerns.

 

My dd, almost 17, was homeschooled until 5th grade and then went to PS. We withdrew her in October of her freshman year because the peer influences that she chose (or that chose her?) were causing her to make some VERY poor life choices (use your imagination). She was angry, sulking, and defiant about homeschooling; most of her freshman year was a loss. Then she had a major turnaround and was willing to work, but school has never really clicked for her and it was a struggle. She is intelligent, compassionate, well-spoken, mature, but just has trouble with traditional schoolwork. So we made progress, but stayed behind. However, we thought we had our sweet girl back and were willing to work through the school issues.

 

We let her get a job which she excelled at. It boosted her confidence. What we didn't know was that she was back on the slippery slope of bad choices and now instead of boys constantly after her, she had grown men pulling her this way and that. Thankfully, God kept her safe when we didn't know there was a problem, and he kept enough of her heart that she chose to go on an extended mission trip to a missions training school. She's been there for the past two months with my parents as her chaperones and has skyped with us several times with many tears, exposed her mistakes, and asked our forgiveness and help. She got lost for a while, but she is back and we believe it to be very genuine. She has cut ties with most of her friends here at home and has asked to live for the rest of the school year with my parents in another town. She even asked us to sell her car to raise money for another mission trip.

 

So here's the dilemma. At this point, she should be a junior; she has begun, but not finished any of her sophomore classes. She is a "just get school done so that I can live my life" kid who has no interest in traditional academics. Her desire is for Christian ministry, probably on the foreign mission field. The missionaries that she has just trained with see the potential in her, despite the challenges she has had (of which they are completely aware), and have offered her a 1-year internship at their mission base in Nicaragua after she turns 18 and finishes school. She has asked to study for and take her GED so that she can close this chapter of her life and move on. She could easily accomplish this by the end of the spring semester and then attend the community college next summer and fall. At that point, she will be 18 and wants to pursue the missions internship and continue with CC classes online working towards an Associate's Degree. 4-year college is not in her plans at all.

 

There seems to be such a stigma associated with the GED that I'm having trouble with "settling" for this for her. My concerns are not for myself, but for how she will perceive herself and how others will perceive her. I don't think the GED will be the ending point of her formal education, but that's hard to predict. I feel like we are at the point where she needs to find success in what drives her and let go of what doesn't even if it doesn't look like what is societally acceptable. Thoughts?

 

ETA: I forgot to mention that in addition to her personal/educational struggles, she has an older sister who is a National Merit Scholar on a full-ride who is currently studying abroad in Europe. We've always been careful not to make any judgments or comparisons between them, but this can't help her self-esteem. However, the younger, struggling daughter has more common sense, practical skills, and compassion for others in her little finger than older brilliant sis has in her whole body!

Edited October 23, 2011 by Adrienne_in_TX
Additional info

[AK_Mom4]

Well, do you see any benefit to her NOT getting her GED and just stopping schooling when she turns 18? My take on it is that having a GED is better than being 18 and having nothing to show for her years of schooling. It sounds like having the GED piece of paper will be helpful with what she plans to do with her life (at this point at least), so I would support her in her choices.

[Corraleno]

Are you sure she needs a GED to start at the CC? Most CCs don't require a GED or a HS diploma, the student just takes an assessment (like Accuplacer) and then enrolls in courses at the appropriate level. Can she study a bit for the Accuplacer (or whatever the CC uses) instead of the GED, and just start taking classes? Then when she's 18, if her work at CC is satisfactory to you, you can graduate her from your homeschool. That way she would have a high school diploma rather than a GED and if she's ever asked on a job application if she's a "HS graduate," she can honestly answer yes. That's what I would do, anyway.

 

Jackie

[plansrme]

This isn't going to be responsive to your question, but have you ever heard of this mission organization: http://amazima.org/?

 

The young woman who founded it dropped out of college to do so, much to her parents' chagrin, or so it sounds. I thought it might be encouraging to you and your daughter to dig around on her site and learn more about her story.

 

Terri

[Jenn in CA]

I think taking the GED and going to CC sounds like a great plan. She has big plans and this is just a means to an end. Sounds great to me. I don't think GED would have any stigma, esp. if she goes on to the CC or even just the missions school afterwards. To me it sounds adventurous and confident.

[WTMCassandra]

I would be against GED and no plan.

 

However.

 

This is not that.

 

If she has found her passion, I think you would be wise to support it. If she has someone willing to give her a 1-yr mission internship, I would let her take it. If GED frees her up to take this path, then I think you should let her.

[Julieofsardis]

I agree with Jackie. Of course it would depend on your state laws. If the laws allow that's the route I would take.

[IsabelC]

If you believe that she has really thought it through and is serious about being a missionary, do all you can to support her on that path. It might turn out to be a fulfilling long term endeavor.

 

People are generally most successful with things they are passionate about and willing to work very hard for. If she continues her formal education now when she would really rather undertake the mission training, she may struggle to stay motivated, particularly since academics aren't her strongest point to start with. On the other hand, should she decide later in life that she really needs to go to college after all, she will be far more motivated to do the necessary courses then.

[Oakblossoms]

does your state offer anything for hs at the CC?

 

In our state, we can sign up at the local CC and they pay for a portion of it.

[creekland]

I'd go with her plan. It doesn't sound like a bad one at all to me.

 

It's a fallacy to think that every single student needs to follow the same plan or even similar plans. God has an individual plan for each. She can explain why she went the GED route and it makes sense. It shouldn't be a stigma at all. Studying for the GED ought to help catch her up on basics she missed.

 

There are people in my circle of friends who have "issues" in their past whether it be drug use, prison, dropping out of school, previous relationships or whatever. I don't think any less of them. I look at who they are now. Usually I have high respect due to what they did to change.

 

Five, ten, twenty (or whatever) years from now this whole thing will just be a story/testimony. No one (I'd respect) would look down upon her for a GED.

[MyThreeSons]

Are you sure she needs a GED to start at the CC? Most CCs don't require a GED or a HS diploma, the student just takes an assessment (like Accuplacer) and then enrolls in courses at the appropriate level.

 

I don't know that this is true of "most" CCs. I know our local CC doesn't operate on the "ability to benefit" model. One must have a HS diploma or GED in order to be admitted. In some states, though, once you're 18yo, you can be admitted regardless of educational standing.

[Murphy101]

If she wants to study for an associates, then I would let her test out of it. It will cost less than the GED and CC route and she will still get her associates and likely get it faster. There are many associates she could get via testing and some distance learning classes. And she wouldn't have to wait until she was 18 to do it.

[elegantlion]

Before taking the GED, I would make sure there was no other route available.

 

MY dh has a GED. While it never hindered his job prospects, he's self-employed, it did affect his esteem. His family is very academic, his mother has a PhD +, all his siblings have degrees and work within the fields of their degree. He very much feels like the "dumb one" in the family. BTW, he's 50, so it has had lingering issues.

 

I don't think a GED is wrong, but you are wise to consider how it might affect her emotionally down the road.

[emubird]

Back when I was in high school, a lot of kids were taking the GED as "insurance". I'm not quite sure what that meant. (They ended up with a high school diploma anyway.)

 

I don't think having the GED score in their background has ever hindered them. After all, they don't need to report it.

 

In any case, I suspect that there are plenty of colleges who would consider her, down the road, if she has a solid GED score and a lot of life experience with the mission work she plans to do. This will be even more true if she shows she can handle cc work. If she eventually takes the ACT or SAT to get into a 4 year college, the GED will count for very little at that point.

 

Some kids do kind of lose academic steam part way through high school. It can be really good for them to just go off and do something else for a bit -- volunteer or work.

 

And it is possible that you could "graduate" her if you wished. If you look at where she stands academically, and where the average high school graduate stands, you might be surprised to find that she's on a par with them. In that case, I wouldn't worry about what credits she may not have completed. The important thing is whether she has the academic skills that make her ready for a job or college. Remember that a lot of high school kids take really easy classes, or have to do "remedial" work through most of high school. If your daughter is beyond those things and already ready for cc, then she truly might have finished the basic requirements and it would not be at all stretching the truth to say she has graduated. She just might not have done as much as you might have wished.

[mcconnellboys]

I say, let her take her GED and do the missions work. Something in the CC classes may spark her interest along the way, or something she learns from the mission work may spark a desire for an education in a particular area (public health, for instance).

 

She has the rest of her life to choose to go to college and get a degree (if she ever chooses that). Having a GED will not hamper her from getting into many colleges, especially with the experience she will have in the field of work prior to trying to get into a college.

 

Many schools increasingly look for that student who presents with a very different background. She will probably learn some foreign langauge (I'm guessing) through the mission work, as well, and that opens up further opportunities for her....

[Corraleno]

I don't know that this is true of "most" CCs. I know our local CC doesn't operate on the "ability to benefit" model. One must have a HS diploma or GED in order to be admitted. In some states, though, once you're 18yo, you can be admitted regardless of educational standing.

But they allow dual enrollment, don't they? The OP's DD could be enrolled as homeschooled HS student, who would just be doing all (or most) of her classes at the CC. The OP could also give her credit for her missions work and any preparation she's doing for the upcoming internship (Bible study, learning about the culture, etc.). Then she graduates with a homeschool HS diploma and a number of CC credits towards an AA.

 

I also agree with what Martha said about letting her try to test out of some courses by studying for CLEPs and/or doing some distance learning courses. Even if the local CC does not allow dual enrollment for some reason, she could take distance learning courses from other CCs. Many people who get a degree through CLEP/DANTES testing (e.g. using College Plus, the Instacert forum, etc.) take distance learning courses from CCs like Clovis — out-of-state tuition for two 3-credit courses is only $270 (for both).

 

I think there are lots of options here without having to "settle" for a GED.

 

Jackie

[beachmom]

They might have what you're looking for.

 

http://www.edanywhere.com/index.html

[Julie in MN]

There seems to be such a stigma associated with the GED that I'm having trouble with "settling" for this for her. My concerns are not for myself, but for how she will perceive herself and how others will perceive her. I don't think the GED will be the ending point of her formal education, but that's hard to predict. I feel like we are at the point where she needs to find success in what drives her and let go of what doesn't even if it doesn't look like what is societally acceptable. Thoughts?

 

I'm usually one who discourages a GED. My dh has one and it has been a source of embarrassment and discrimination for him.

 

However, if you have more advanced education, even just "some college," then usually the GED does not need to come up or you can steer around the issue. So a GED doesn't really matter much if she goes directly into higher ed.

 

And, not everyone does the ideal. I have a dd whom I never graduated at all, so that's even worse than a GED :tongue_smilie: But she has done okay with her life situation.

 

Julie

[jelbe5]

:grouphug:

 

We are looking at similar choices with our dd who does not have plans for 4 year college.

 

One suggestion a friend made to me was to have my dd study for the GED and if she passes a practice test or a test I design for her to award her a high school diploma from my homeschool. Is that an option?

 

Here, my dd does not necessarily need a GED to enter the CC so the other plan I am considering is to have her prepare for the placement test for the CC. If she tests well, she can begin to take college credit courses. If not, she takes a few remedial classes before beginning college credit classes

 

Lastly, have either of you considered CLEP? If she studies for and passes several CLEP exams she is awarded college credit, which will make her entrance to CC easier. She may also eventually decide to pursue a 4 year degree through a distance program such as Thomas Edison State College. Just something to consider. She sounds like a lovely, committed young woman with a passion for missions and I am confident she will do well!

[MyThreeSons]

But they allow dual enrollment, don't they? The OP's DD could be enrolled as homeschooled HS student, who would just be doing all (or most) of her classes at the CC.

 

Around here, students are only permitted to take at most two courses per semester on a dual enrollment basis. This is true of the two community colleges, one two-year private college and a four-year private college, all of which are attended by homeschoolers I know. Some students take classes at two different schools to get around the rule.

 

I'm just trying to point out that what's true for some folks won't necessarily be true everywhere.

[tex-mex]

I think taking the GED and going to CC sounds like a great plan. She has big plans and this is just a means to an end. Sounds great to me. I don't think GED would have any stigma, esp. if she goes on to the CC or even just the missions school afterwards. To me it sounds adventurous and confident.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

She is almost an adult.

 

Not everything she chooses in her path to adulthood you will agree with. I think let her get the GED and bless her in whatever ministry or college down the road she wants to do. It is her decision. Be at peace.

[Adrienne_in_TX]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond with your ideas.:001_smile:

 

Our CC does have dual enrollment, but you have to be a completed sophomore and can only take 1 course in the summer and 2 in the regular semester. She is a year behind, so she will complete 10th in the Spring. If we chose to finish high school this route, it would take 1 1/2 to 2 years and she is anxious to do the internship sooner.

 

She must be finished with high school (either diploma or GED) and 18 (Dec. 2012) for the internship and does not want to wait any longer than necessary to start on that. That is the passion that is driving her and the GED will get her there faster.

 

Because she is not terribly strong academically, and has high test anxiety, and mild learning issues, CLEP would probably push her over the edge. The GED and Accuplacer for CC will do enough of that. I'm not sure how ready she is for CC, but if it's her idea I suspect that she will commit and excel. She has friends taking classes at the CC, and, frankly, it's not any harder than high school. In fact many of my daughters' friends who "succeeded" in PS have had to start out in non-credit, remedial math and english at both the CC and 4-year universities.

 

I hesitate to just graduate her myself at this point because the transcript would not back that up in credits.

 

I wonder if she could take the GED, do some CC classes, serve the internship and then I could issue a diploma as if the CC classes had been dual enrollment? They would not technically be considered that by the CC, but could be by me for purposes of her HS transcript? I'll have to check on that.

 

Again, thank you so much for listening ears and willing spirits. My husband and mother are both encouraging me to let her follow her plan. It could be that the best plan is the one that she feels good about and will actually do. I'm just so thankful that God kept her heart and rescued her from a bad situation before too much damage was done. Her missionary mentor is a former heroine addict (decades ago) who dropped out in the 10th grade. He has since gone on to completely turn his life around, and has earned a Doctorate in Divinity and started an international missions organization. So, there is much hope!

[jelbe5]

I think your plan sounds great. Thank you for sharing and for the advice. This post has helped me feel more hopeful in dealing with my oldest dd.

[Hope in God]

I think it is great to let her follow her dreams.

 

As parents, letting go of our plans for our children's lives is not easy but it seems to me that our kids need to have the oppurtunity to excel in the area that they are gifted. Your accademic daughter was able to excel in her gifting and I think your other daughter's spiritual giftings are no less marvelous! I doubt that your daughter will look back and regret getting her GED instead of graduating because if she is able to fulfill her dreams and pursue her passions she will be happy.

 

On a side note, I hated high school and would have done anything to have shortened the time.;)

[Teachin'Mine]

Are you sure she needs a GED to start at the CC? Most CCs don't require a GED or a HS diploma, the student just takes an assessment (like Accuplacer) and then enrolls in courses at the appropriate level. Can she study a bit for the Accuplacer (or whatever the CC uses) instead of the GED, and just start taking classes? Then when she's 18, if her work at CC is satisfactory to you, you can graduate her from your homeschool. That way she would have a high school diploma rather than a GED and if she's ever asked on a job application if she's a "HS graduate," she can honestly answer yes. That's what I would do, anyway.

 

Jackie

 

That's what I would do too. You must be feeling so grateful and proud of your daughter. :001_smile:

[laughing lioness]

I think taking the GED and going to CC sounds like a great plan. She has big plans and this is just a means to an end. Sounds great to me. I don't think GED would have any stigma, esp. if she goes on to the CC or even just the missions school afterwards. To me it sounds adventurous and confident.

 

:iagree:Ayup.

My dd21 was required to take the GED to get in to Beauty School. The deal is, there is stigma attached to everything (including Merit Scholarship winners -kwim?). My dd got a LOT of flack from extended fam about her choice, being told that only "white trash" go to beauty school, etc. This girl does not want to go into debt for school, was not ready to move away for school and LOVES "ministering" to people through this vocation. All of that to say, I think it sounds like a fabulous idea. She's focused, she's away from influences that can ruin her,she has a plan.

[LuvingLife]

:iagree:Ayup.

My dd21 was required to take the GED to get in to Beauty School. The deal is, there is stigma attached to everything (including Merit Scholarship winners -kwim?). My dd got a LOT of flack from extended fam about her choice, being told that only "white trash" go to beauty school, etc. This girl does not want to go into debt for school, was not ready to move away for school and LOVES "ministering" to people through this vocation. All of that to say, I think it sounds like a fabulous idea. She's focused, she's away from influences that can ruin her,she has a plan.

 

:iagree: so much with your daughter's idea! If she has found her passion then let her go for it. I too believe I have found my passion and I am also going to be taking classes at my local CC once I graduate to become a nurse. With my nursing degree, I plan on traveling to third world countries ministering to those who are lost and also keeping them healthy all at the same time.

 

So I say let her for it! Passion is what drives you on!!:)

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

About 15 years ago I knew a young lady that was a straight A student. She could have gotten a scholarship to anywhere. She just wanted out of school. She took the GED, worked full time (retail I think?? ), and had just gotten married when we moved away. A few years ago I heard she was still very happy with her life.

 

We don't all have to go to college, have a super great career, or make tons of money. Many people do those things are are not happy.

 

It sounds as if your dd has a plan for something that will make her happy.

:D

 

Pam

 

Oh yes....and I know of several young folks that decided to go back to college in the late 20s. You can get into college with a GED.

[MyThreeSons]

On a side note, I hated high school and would have done anything to have shortened the time.;)

 

Back in the dark ages when I was in high school, I had a brilliant friend who absolutely hated jumping thru the hoops of doing homework assignments and such. He was practically flunking out of high school. He took the GED and aced it, then promptly talked his way into a job at NASA. He started off as a gofer, but worked his way into a technical position within a few years.

 

The GED was the right thing for him.

[Adrienne_in_TX]

Thank you all so much for the help and encouragement. I will post when we have reached a decision and let you know how it's going.

 

Somebody should have warned me when she climbed out of the crib at 15 months that we were in for a ride!!:D She's done everything sooner than my plan, so I guess she's going out into the "real world" sooner than I planned as well.

 

She's very much like my younger sister who was a handful and didn't conform at all. When she got out on her own and became independent, she rocked at life and is now quite accomplished. Had to do it her way though.

 

Adrienne

[AnitaMcC]

Back in the dark ages when I was in high school, I had a brilliant friend who absolutely hated jumping thru the hoops of doing homework assignments and such. He was practically flunking out of high school. He took the GED and aced it, then promptly talked his way into a job at NASA. He started off as a gofer, but worked his way into a technical position within a few years.

 

The GED was the right thing for him.

 

I am thinking this is the route for my Ds#1. He was able to enroll full time freshman college courses when he was a freshman in high school based on his test scores. But he does not want to do a bunch of courses that has nothing to do with his career choice (computers).

 

So I am thinking that he will just take his GED and go into a trade school. He just wants to work and he isn't interested in formal education.

 

We homeschooled him for 9th and 10th grades. Now (11th grade) he is doing cyber school but he is failing all of his classes. He does well on the tests, but he isn't getting the "busy work" done. Not sure what route we will go from here. We are in PA now and I don't know if I can just let him "quit" high school and let him take the GED.

Edited October 28, 2011 by AnitaMcC