Could you give me advice on further therapy?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some of you know that one of our dogs, Libby, was hit by a car a week and a half ago. She has a spinal cord injury. She has made huge strides and has gone from literally hanging on to life, to being basically back to normal except for one major point: she has no use of her front right leg.

 

The muscles are totally flaccid on that side. I've done some physical therapy on that leg following instructions given to me by the vet. Today we tried to do water therapy in our tub but our tub is just too shallow. She is on prednisone for possible inflammation in the spinal cord that might be causing the paralysis. I was told that if there was no improvement in 3 weeks, that her paralysis would most likely be permanent. I'm feeling a bit stressed because we are halfway through the 3 weeks and I haven't seen any movement at all, though dd has said that she's seen some (I'm not sure if that is wishful thinking or not). I'm researching dog physical and aqua therapy right now (mainly using underwater treadmills). The costs range from $75 an hour to $95 an hour. I'm already trying to figure out how we're going to pay almost $4000 for her care immediately after the accident. Part of me wants to pay anything for a chance for her to be better. But part of me is just not sure if I should pay for this physical therapy when there has been no signs of movement at all. I am almost frozen with indecision on this and need some objective voices to help me figure this out.

[Chris in VA]

First, I'm so sorry about your dog!

I don't know what I'd do, actually.

 

Would maybe 5 times help? That would cost a lot, but not terribly much-- but maybe a jump-start would be helpful, and you could do other therapy at home?

[Starr]

Does the vet think therapy would help considering her condition?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Does the vet think therapy would help considering her condition?

 

There is a 3 in 5 chance that it could improve. We could not afford the $2000 MRI to see which of the 5 possible scenarios fits her particular injury.

[simka2]

I know that I do a lot of massage, stretching, and bending with the horses when they are injured.

 

Will they amputate the leg if it is deemed paralyzed?

I had a 3 legged dog (front left) growing up that I loved!!!! She lived a full and wonderful life. Interestingly, she was hit by a car as well right in front of me. I had left the front door open and she got out. I was devestated, but we became very close as a result.

 

:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Will they amputate the leg if it is deemed paralyzed?

 

I was told that they most likely would have to amputate the leg.

[Sun]

I have a friend who had a fairly severe spinal injury several years ago. It took her about a year to regain most of her function. The first few weeks post-injury were not at all representative of the function she ended up with. Some of her issues were from swelling, but the ones that took longer to heal were from damaged nerves. Perhaps it will be similar for your dog? I would expect most injuries to take more than a couple of weeks to heal.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have a friend who had a fairly severe spinal injury several years ago. It took her about a year to regain most of her function. The first few weeks post-injury were not at all representative of the function she ended up with. Some of her issues were from swelling, but the ones that took longer to heal were from damaged nerves. Perhaps it will be similar for your dog? I would expect most injuries to take more than a couple of weeks to heal.

 

That makes me feel better. I really, really hope that Libby does not have permanent paralysis. And I really, really hope that her leg will not have to be amputated. I feel so badly for her.

[AngieW in Texas]

You might try acupuncture. I was pretty surprised when the vet recommended it to us back in November after we'd had our dog in the office three times in one week. We just couldn't figure out what was wrong aside from pain and none of the meds they gave us made any difference.

 

There was at least a 50% improvement immediately after the 1st visit. After the 2nd visit she was at least 80% better. She was completely better after the 3rd visit.

[Liz CA]

That makes me feel better. I really, really hope that Libby does not have permanent paralysis. And I really, really hope that her leg will not have to be amputated. I feel so badly for her.

 

Jean, even if she does not regain use of her leg, why does it need to be amputated? Could you massage and exercise it yourself and wait what happens. Libby can learn to walk on three legs. It is awkward to watch but I have seen very happy dogs on three legs...

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean, even if she does not regain use of her leg, why does it need to be amputated? Could you massage and exercise it yourself and wait what happens. Libby can learn to walk on three legs. It is awkward to watch but I have seen very happy dogs on three legs...

 

Her leg hangs lower even now because the muscles are flaccid and aren't keeping the bones up higher. That means that the leg drags constantly. I guess it is very common because of that, for infection to set in, thus requiring the leg to be amputated.

 

Yes, I am massaging and exercising it. She walks on 3 legs now. She's now even hopping up a very short flight of stairs. She thinks she can do anything she could do before though and has almost fallen down the stairs twice, though we managed to lunge for her and grab her before she went head first. She also went galloping across our front lawn yesterday to say hi to our neighbor and I had to grab her before she went head first over our short retaining wall. In the past she would have just jumped down. Right now she would have landed on her head (she still lands on her head sometimes when she loses her balance just walking.)

Edited September 18, 2011 by Jean in Newcastle

[Liz CA]

Oh what a sweetie. She will in time learn to judge better as she learns to re-balance herself.

I can see now why they may have to at least shorten the leg. I imagine that would be a pretty penny in addition to the pretty penny you guys already paid.

There is still time though from what you wrote. Two weeks ago, you didn't know if Libby had permanent brain damage. God has brought Libby this far and even doctors don't know everything.

[Lolly]

I'm fairly hard when it comes to pets. To be quite honest, I probably would not have saved her at the $4000 right after the accident. With a 60% chance of improvement and over $2000 fees to even begin (MRI), there is no way I would proceed with water therapy. I would continue to massage the leg and work it the best that I could at home. I would also be saving for the amputation (which I would have no problems doing). Dogs do remarkably well with amputations. I would not hesitate to pay it because I feel that it is a definite end/solution to a problem that isn't going to get any deeper.

[EthiopianFood]

If she doesn't improve, be sure to do some research as to whether or not the amputation is actually necessaray. I would think a specially made sock would protect the skin and prevent infection, and be much less invasive than surgically removing the leg. I have a cat whose back legs are both paralyzed, and she gets around just fine by scooting (although she is indoors only). Be very grateful you are getting such appropriate help from your vet. I was never advised to do any massage or anything else, and wasn't even told how to know if we were to start expressing her bladder. If recovery had been possible, that possibility was eliminated for her. :( The only "consolation" I have is that her tail still drags, so I know there was permanent damage, regardless of lack of treatment. It's all sad for us, but they really do very well, and are very adaptable.

[Heather in AL]

It's been a week and a half and Libby's cognitive state seems normal. She has gotten 'back to normal' but for one thing... all in a mere week and a half. You asked for opinions, so here is mine.

 

If this was our pet and we had already paid $4000, we would give the water therapy a shot. If, as you said in a later post, she has a 3 in 5 chance of improvement with the therapy, in our eyes it would be worth it~~ we would figure out a way to pay for it. Do you have any guesses as to how many visits to the water therapy place she would need before improvement would be noticed? I'm wondering if the fact that she is 'three legging it' now isn't hampering the improvement of the other leg and once water therapy begins, you'll notice a large jump in muscle control.

 

Also, is there some way to put a brace on the leg to assist/encourage her to try to walk on it? Is sounds like she just isn't using it, therefore no improvement.

 

Anyway, since you have already spent to much, for us it would come to what's another xx amount if there is such a good change on getting her back to, or at least near to, her old self? Had your total thus far been, oh, $4000 and the water therapy was estimated to run $3000 or so, maybe my answer might be different, but since you have spent a big chunk so far, and with terrific results, maybe a smaller chunk would be worth it to continue. Would you have been willing to spend, say, $5000 at the vet had Libby been able to come home back to normal? If so, then, go for the water therapy before doing something permanent.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: to you. It's so hard to know what to do.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If she doesn't improve, be sure to do some research as to whether or not the amputation is actually necessaray. I would think a specially made sock would protect the skin and prevent infection, and be much less invasive than surgically removing the leg. I have a cat whose back legs are both paralyzed, and she gets around just fine by scooting (although she is indoors only). Be very grateful you are getting such appropriate help from your vet. I was never advised to do any massage or anything else, and wasn't even told how to know if we were to start expressing her bladder. If recovery had been possible, that possibility was eliminated for her. :( The only "consolation" I have is that her tail still drags, so I know there was permanent damage, regardless of lack of treatment. It's all sad for us, but they really do very well, and are very adaptable.

 

I'm sorry about your kitty. The vets have been very helpful on advice for home treatment but I've also been rather pushy in asking for it;) It actually takes me back to my days in special ed with severely disabled kids when I work with Libby. . . Yesterday I got these "paw-tectors" at Petco. They are velcro adjustable and help a bit with the dragging.

[ktgrok]

Jean, even if she does not regain use of her leg, why does it need to be amputated? Could you massage and exercise it yourself and wait what happens. Libby can learn to walk on three legs. It is awkward to watch but I have seen very happy dogs on three legs...

 

It would throw off her balance, and if she has no feeling in it she could injure it very easily. She would be much more comfortable with it amuptated.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Also, is there some way to put a brace on the leg to assist/encourage her to try to walk on it? Is sounds like she just isn't using it, therefore no improvement.

 

Anyway, since you have already spent to much, for us it would come to what's another xx amount if there is such a good change on getting her back to, or at least near to, her old self? Had your total thus far been, oh, $4000 and the water therapy was estimated to run $3000 or so, maybe my answer might be different, but since you have spent a big chunk so far, and with terrific results, maybe a smaller chunk would be worth it to continue. Would you have been willing to spend, say, $5000 at the vet had Libby been able to come home back to normal? If so, then, go for the water therapy before doing something permanent.

 

Very good questions that I don't know the answer to. Yesterday and the day before I was googling local water therapy places. But websites only tell you so much. Tomorrow I start actually calling them to ask.

 

The brace question is one that dd9 asked me and I blew her off:001_huh: Now that you ask it, I realize that I shouldn't have done so! I will ask the vet.

[ktgrok]

A good idea for therapy is to call around and see if any vets have laser therapy. The are sometimes called therapeutic lasers or cold lasers. They stimulate healing, and help bring down inflammation. Not cheap, but possibly better than water therapy at this point. The hydro therapy would be to help her build up the muscle, but if she has no feeling/nerves working there the hydro won't do much. The laser would help to take down the swelling on the spine, to get the nerves working. Does that make sense?

[Jean in Newcastle]

A good idea for therapy is to call around and see if any vets have laser therapy. The are sometimes called therapeutic lasers or cold lasers. They stimulate healing, and help bring down inflammation. Not cheap, but possibly better than water therapy at this point. The hydro therapy would be to help her build up the muscle, but if she has no feeling/nerves working there the hydro won't do much. The laser would help to take down the swelling on the spine, to get the nerves working. Does that make sense?

 

I haven't seen any mention of laser therapy in my googling. Off to do more!:auto:

 

The vets did recommend the water therapy though, with the statement that sometimes it triggers something in the dog's brain to use that limb for swimming when they won't use it for walking. I'm assuming that means that the pathways are all there and intact but the dog just doesn't know that he can use them or something.

[celticmom]

Another thought is to take Libby to hydrotherapy a few times and stay and observe and ask lots of questions. The prices you mentioned are higher than what we paid but we are in a part of the country with generally low overhead expenses. After you see what is involved with hydrotherapy you could set up a kids pool at the right depth and walk her around it(you outside, her in the water). The place we took our dog used the kiddie pool technique before they got their underwater treadmill. The only thing that could be challenging is keeping the water warm. A black tarp in the bottom of the pool would more that do it in this area if the pool was in the sun(actually it would probably get dangerously hot). One advantage of doing therapy at home is that you could use your other dog as an assistant especially if Libby will try harder to keep up with him than she would on her own.

 

I would not make any decisions extremely quickly, our dog's initial progress was very slow and none of the vets held out much hope for anything more than total permanent paralysis of his back end. Now he walks, not perfectly but he does walk and even wags his tail now(that took years).

Edited September 18, 2011 by celticmom

[elfgivas]

Another thought is to take Libby to hydrotherapy a few times and stay and observe and ask lots of questions. The prices you mentioned are higher than what we paid but we are in a part of the country with generally low overhead expenses. After you see what is involved with hydrotherapy you could set up a kids pool at the right depth and walk her around it(you outside, her in the water). The place we took our dog used the kiddie pool technique before they got their underwater treadmill. The only thing that could be challenging is keeping the water warm. A black tarp in the bottom of the pool would more that do it in this area if the pool was in the sun(actually it would probably get dangerously hot). One advantage of doing therapy at home is that you could use your other dog as an assistant especially if Libby will try harder to keep up with him than she would on her own.

 

I would not make any decisions extremely quickly, our dog's initial progress was very slow and none of the vet's held out much hope for anything more than total permanent paralysis of his back end. Now he walks, not perfectly but he does walk and even wags his tail now(that took years).

 

this sounds like a good and practical idea! for the first time in all of this, i am much more hopeful!

 

:grouphug:

ann

[plansrme]

The vets did recommend the water therapy though, with the statement that sometimes it triggers something in the dog's brain to use that limb for swimming when they won't use it for walking. I'm assuming that means that the pathways are all there and intact but the dog just doesn't know that he can use them or something.

 

Can you just find someone with a pool? You could go in with her, put a sling around her belly, maybe, and see what she does?

 

Terri

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can you just find someone with a pool? You could go in with her, put a sling around her belly, maybe, and see what she does?

 

Terri

 

I asked one person I knew with a pool. They were scandalized that it would involve a dog getting in the water. Oh well.

 

 

Libby's good front paw is now bleeding because of the extra pressure on it. Perhaps I need to put a paw protector on it too.

[celticmom]

We had a few problems with injuries to our dog's paralyzed feet at first but we have not had that problem for a long time. Even when he is "lazy" and drags his back legs instead of walking they seem to have toughened up or something. He may have more feeling also because he does not drag himself over extremely rough terrain or in cold weather.

[celticmom]

They were scandalized that it would involve a dog getting in the water. Oh well.

 

 

I guess that they would really freak about our dogs that sleep in the bed with us. That is just ridiculous.

[celticmom]

I have been meaning to ask, have they done a deep pain test on Libby's paralyzed leg? That is fairly simple and might give you more information.

[Old Dominion Heather]

:grouphug:I sent you a PM. You're a good pet owner, Jean.

[EthiopianFood]

I'm sorry about your kitty. The vets have been very helpful on advice for home treatment but I've also been rather pushy in asking for it;) It actually takes me back to my days in special ed with severely disabled kids when I work with Libby. . . Yesterday I got these "paw-tectors" at Petco. They are velcro adjustable and help a bit with the dragging.

 

Yeah, our vet gave us just enough information that I didn't think there WAS anything else that could be done. :( It was only in finding online support groups that I realized I had gotten bad information. Money was an issue for us, and I was under the impression that it was either nothing or thousands of dollars that we didn't have. If I had just listened to the vet, we would have put her down. :glare: Needless to say, I won't see that vet again under any circumstances. :glare:

 

I'm wondering if there is a sling of some sort out there. I know they sell little mats that go around their waist and under their legs/rears for those who have to drag around. There really is a niche for this sort of thing, as I'm sure you can imagine.

[ktgrok]

info on cold lasers: http://www.vomtech.com/vetcoldlaser.html

 

I also would advise acupuncture if you can work it into the budget. I've seen great results with both.