s/o Pertussis -- IF one is vaccinated.......

[MariannNOVA]

UPDATE: Allison has strep.

 

 

they can't get it, right?

 

No vaccination debates please - :001_smile:

 

Simply:

 

Hi!

 

How are you?

 

Yes or no.

 

TIA

 

:grouphug:

Edited August 19, 2011 by MariannNOVA

[Slartibartfast]

Here is a quote from the literature

 

After a properly spaced primary series of DTaP or Td/Tdap, approximately 95% of people will have protective levels of diphtheria antitoxin and 100% will have protective levels of tetanus antitoxin in their blood. However, antitoxin levels decrease with time so routine boosters with tetanus and diphtheria toxoids are recommended every 10 years. Estimates of acellular pertussis vaccine efficacy range from 80% to 85%—a level believed to be far more efficacious than the previously-used whole cell pertussis vaccine.

 

I am one of those that is more cautious about vaccines. However with pertussis I felt it was more dangerous and I did have my children vaccinated on schedule for that one.

[DusksAngel]

You could still get it, it just wouldn't be as bad as if your body had never "seen" it before

[MariannNOVA]

Here is a quote from the literature

 

 

 

I am one of those that is more cautious about vaccines. However with pertussis I felt it was more dangerous and I did have my children vaccinated on schedule for that one.

 

Thank you! I asked my daughter and she is as cautious as me and thankfully A and E have been vaccinated on schedule for that one as well.

 

Thank you again -- the info was quite helpful.:001_smile:

[MariannNOVA]

You could still get it, it just wouldn't be as bad as if your body had never "seen" it before

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

That is helpful too.

[laundrycrisis]

You can still get pertussis.

 

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/vaccination-is-steady-but-pertussis-is-surging/

[JFSinIL]

I have a fully vaccinated niece who caught it as a teenager. Actually, both teen girls in that family caught it.

[Perry]

they can't get it, right?

No vaccine is 100% effective, so yes, you can still get it. How effective the vaccine is depends on a number of things. Immunity wears off with time (both with the vaccine or if you have had the actual disease) and immunity can be gone after as little as 4 years after vaccination.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Perry

[Ginevra]

Yes. You could still get it. The vaccine makes it less likely and reduces the severity if you were to get it.

 

Pertussis is not thought to be "eliminatable" by vaccinations, even if compliance was near-total. Just makes it less likely. :001_smile:

[Jennifer in MI]

Yup. Sure can. We are STILL getting over it. It's been a terrible summer.

 

I saw your other post, Mariann, and it doesn't sound like your granddaughter has it. It doesn't come on quickly. The first couple of weeks are just a simple cough and maybe runny nose. And, the cough isn't croup from the start.

 

:grouphug: Either way, she'll be fine.

[GoVanGogh]

The doctors thought my DS had pertussis a few years ago, even though he was vaccinated against it. Our pediatrician said at that time that 1.) the vaccine is more to prevent the *spread* of the disease to those most vulnerable (elderly, pregnant, very young) and not as a preventative from actually *getting* it yourself and 2.) it is the least effective vaccine on the market.

[MariannNOVA]

Thank you all.

 

They are right now pullling into the peds office parking lot in NJ and will call me as soon as they are out.

 

Thank you all again!

[MariannNOVA]

Yup. Sure can. We are STILL getting over it. It's been a terrible summer.

 

I saw your other post, Mariann, and it doesn't sound like your granddaughter has it. It doesn't come on quickly. The first couple of weeks are just a simple cough and maybe runny nose. And, the cough isn't croup from the start.

 

:grouphug: Either way, she'll be fine.

 

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN??????

 

I was thinking of you specifically last night and wondering what in the world had happened to you!!!!!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Her cough is definitely croupy -- she has allergies.......from what you have written, it does not sound like this is what she has.

 

PM ME!!!!!!!!!:grouphug:

 

PS -- Every time the cabana boy brings a drink for you, I drink it so the ice won't water it down!;)

[....]

I had pertussis about 2 or 3 years ago. I was vaccinated for it already. I had every vaccine under the sun (I was in the military). I still caught it. It wouldn't go away without an antibiotic. It was traveling around our ps system at the time (my kids were in ps) and a bunch of people had it. The doctor said that there is a theory that the vaccines in the late 70s/80s weren't effective or that the vaccine wore off. :confused:

 

I hope everything turns out alright!!

[Pamela H in Texas]

One issue is that it only lasts so long (supposedly about 10 years). I got whooping cough when my kids were little, possibly due to dd getting 4yr old shots? I had had the shot at 14. My daughter turned 4 a couple months before I turned 23.

[Mosaicmind]

I personally do not know but my pediatrician would tell you that ANY vaccine is not 100% effective in every person who gets it.

[Perry]

Yup. Sure can. We are STILL getting over it. It's been a terrible summer.

 

I saw your other post, Mariann, and it doesn't sound like your granddaughter has it. It doesn't come on quickly. The first couple of weeks are just a simple cough and maybe runny nose. And, the cough isn't croup from the start.

 

.

:iagree:

 

Also, you don't usually have a fever with pertussis.

[Jennifer in MI]

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN??????

 

I was thinking of you specifically last night and wondering what in the world had happened to you!!!!!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Her cough is definitely croupy -- she has allergies.......from what you have written, it does not sound like this is what she has.

 

PM ME!!!!!!!!!:grouphug:

 

PS -- Every time the cabana boy brings a drink for you, I drink it so the ice won't water it down!;)

 

We've been recovering from WC!!!! There were about 6 - 8 weeks where I was up most of the night with one child or another. When they weren't coughing, I was up waiting for one of them to start. It was horrible.

 

Thanks so much for making that sacrifice for me - you know- drinking my drinks before they have a chance to get watered down. You really find out who your true friends are in times of crisis!! :lol:

[Alice]

No vaccine is 100% effective. Also pertussis immunity from the vaccine does wane over time, that's why the recommendation now for older kids and adults to get a pertussis booster. Here in VA it's before 6th grade or if you are older and haven't yet gotten the booster.

[myfunnybunch]

Hi!

 

How are you?

 

You can get pertussis even if vaccinated. This according to our pediatrician a few years ago when there was an outbreak in our community. But for those who were vaccinated, it was less severe.

 

Cat

[Carol in Cal.]

I know someone who got pertussis though vaccinated. He didn't have a life-threatening case, but it seemed to weaken his lungs and he coughed kind of routinely for years. He was a homeschooler, and lots of his friends were not vaccinated. He got it when he was nine or so, and is now 14, and still is more susceptible to coughs than he was before.

[Imprimis]

Yes, they can still get it. My teen had it last fall, and there is a good reason it's called the 100 days cough. :glare:

 

She dealt with it from October until mid-December. She was put on antibiotics, but they helped very little.

 

She had the full schedule of shots for pertussis, but had not had the booster.

 

The kicker? My son and youngest daughter never had the full series of DTaP, and they did NOT contract it.

 

I was told by the physician that rates of Pertussis infection were climbing among teens in the last few years.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Imprimis

[Mandowife]

I had it last summer, for about 3 months!! None of my family members caught it. All my kids have had the vaccine, but I know that doesn't always protect.

 

Different disease, but my oldest ds had a really, really bad case of chicken pox when he was 2. I mean he was covered. EVERYWHERE. He got them again when he was four. So we decided to vaccinate with the other children...2nd dd had vaccine, and then a couple of years later got the chicken pox. The last three didn't get that particular vaccine.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Mandowife

[DianeW88]

Yes, you definitely can, because vaccination is successful because of "herd immunity". Not everyone will become 100% immune to what they have been vaccinated for, but if enough people around you are....you still won't come down with the illness. When immunity levels in a community drop and more people develop the disease, then those who's vaccines didn't "take" completely can develop it as well.

 

Adults whose immunity is waning are prime examples, because children aren't being vaccinated in the numbers they have been in the past. An adult can easily contract it and spread it to kids around them.

[RahRah]

No vaccine is 100% effective, so yes, you can still get it. How effective the vaccine is depends on a number of things. Immunity wears off with time (both with the vaccine or if you have had the actual disease) and immunity can be gone after as little as 4 years after vaccination.

 

And in some, some vaccines never take.....I've had the rubella shot five times now and still test negative - when DS was born and they wanted to give me another, I asked - why do you think the sixth time will be the charm when the previous five haven't worked? They agreed and didn't give me another.

 

I also had a full HepB series when I traveled to India - I have tested negative (not immune) every single time I've been tested since - and I'm the only one out of the whole family who was also traveling that it didn't work for immunity, so it wasn't the lot, it was me. Doc suggested I try the booster - I did - nope, still negative, no titers, no immunity, big fat negative.

[Jennifer in MI]

Yes, they can still get it. My teen had it last fall, and there is a good reason it's called the 100 days cough. :glare:

 

She dealt with it from October until mid-December. She was put on antibiotics, but they helped very little.

 

She had the full schedule of shots for pertussis, but had not had the booster.

 

The kicker? My son and youngest daughter never had the full series of DTaP, and they did NOT contract it.

 

I was told by the physician that rates of Pertussis infection was climbing among teens in the last few years.

 

Yup! My 11 yo is still coughing - but now it's usually only once/day and it's not at all scary. He's been coughing since the beginning of June. My dd is still coughing maybe 2 - 3x/day. At least one is scary still. She's been coughing since a week after my 11yo. My 15 yo had it too, but his wasn't as bad.

 

Oh - and the antibiotics aren't to help the person with WC. That is to help stop the spread of the disease. We had them too. After a 5 day course, the kids weren't contagious.

[mommymilkies]

Yes, they can. My dh, and two of my dc who were vaxed for it caught it. My dd who only had one of the shots in the series had the mildest case (she was also breastfeeding and 2 yo). Sorry for the overkill down below. I like reading medical journals. ;)

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no3_supp/mooi.htm

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccines-and-Diseases/Whooping-Cough.aspx

 

Herd immunity? We have it for pertussis according to research. The effectiveness of the vaccine, though, is not very good.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/coverage.pdf

" It is 59-89% effective in preventing pertussis"

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/pertussis-whooping-cough

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16940847

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2431/7/21

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/104/4/997.extract

http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Abstract/2005/05001/Duration_of_Immunity_Against_Pertussis_After.11.aspx

 

It does not prevent transmission so much as severity of disease.

 

"The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection. Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of infection."

The reason is the P portion of DTaP and Tdap doesn't induce bactericidal activity in vaccinated individuals. So vaccinating someone doesn't make them clear the bacteria from their lungs.

 

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/12/7175'>http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/12/7175'>http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/12/7175'>http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/12/7175

 

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152'>http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152'>http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152'>http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/12/7175

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/104/6/1381.extract

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/06/03/rspb.2010.0994.full (this one runs contrary to the other studies)

 

"...all pertussis vaccines tend to modify duration and severity of disease rather than completely preventing illness."

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152

 

"Additionally, the CGH data revealed that the genome size of B. pertussis strains has decreased progressively over a period of 60 years. Our results show that B. pertussis is dynamic and is continuously evolving. This process seems to be influenced by adaptive evolution."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834637/?tool=pubmed

 

"There are currently no data which demonstrate a reduction of transmission of pertussis after immunisation with BOOSTRIX. However, it could be expected that immunisation of immediate close contacts of newborn infants, such as parents, grandparents and healthcare workers, would reduce exposure of pertussis to infants not yet adequately protected through immunisation."

http://www.gsk.com.au/resources.ashx/vaccineproductschilddataproinfo/266/FileName/068A98C43F9D0A52459947CA006BCA86/Boostrix_(Preservative_free)_PI_Version_3.0.pdf

 

"Of particular interest is the lack of a significant ACT antibody response in children for whom the DTP or DTaP vaccines failed. This induced tolerance is intriguing and may be due to the phenomenon called “original antigenic sin†[22]. In this phenomenon, a child responds at initial exposure to all presented epitopes of the infecting agent or vaccine. With repeated exposure when older, the child responds preferentially to those epitopes shared with the original infecting agent or vaccine and can be expected to have responses to new epitopes of the infecting agent that are less marked than normal."

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/502.full'>http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/502.full'>http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/502.full'>http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/502.full

 

"Here, we ask how aP vaccination affects competitive interactions between Bordetella species within co-infected rodent hosts and thus the aP-driven strength and direction of in-host selection. We show that aP vaccination helped clear B. pertussis but resulted in an approximately 40-fold increase in B. parapertussis lung colony-forming units (CFUs). Such vaccine-mediated facilitation of B. parapertussis did not arise as a result of competitive release; B. parapertussis CFUs were higher in aP-relative to sham-vaccinated hosts regardless of whether infections were single or mixed. Further, we show that aP vaccination impedes host immunity against B. parapertussis—measured as reduced lung inflammatory and neutrophil responses. Thus, we conclude that aP vaccination interferes with the optimal clearance of B. parapertussis and enhances the performance of this pathogen. Our data raise the possibility that widespread aP vaccination can create hosts more susceptible to B. parapertussis infection."

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/502.full

 

 

"Pertussis is considered an endemic disease, characterized by an epidemic every 2–5 years. This rate of exacerbations has not changed, even after the introduction of mass vaccination – a fact that indicates the efficacy of the vaccine in preventing the disease but not the transmission of the causative agent (B. pertussis) within the population [19]."

http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar06may-2.pdf

 

"Case definition has been particularly problematic in all of the recent DTaP vaccine efficacy trials. For uniform comparative purposes a case definition was suggested by a WHO expert committee.39 This definition required 21 days of paroxysmal cough plus laboratory confirmation of pertussis in the subject or household contact. There are 2 problems with this definition. The first is that a substantial number of B pertussis infections in unvaccinated children are mild and would not meet the case definition. The second is that all pertussis vaccines tend to modify duration and severity of disease rather than completely preventing illness.18,2326-29,35,36,40 Therefore, the WHO definition has made all vaccines look better than they are and it has tended to obscure differences between vaccines."

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/6/1381

[mommymilkies]

Yes, you definitely can, because vaccination is successful because of "herd immunity". Not everyone will become 100% immune to what they have been vaccinated for, but if enough people around you are....you still won't come down with the illness. When immunity levels in a community drop and more people develop the disease, then those who's vaccines didn't "take" completely can develop it as well.

 

Adults whose immunity is waning are prime examples, because children aren't being vaccinated in the numbers they have been in the past. An adult can easily contract it and spread it to kids around them.

 

This is not true at all. See my post above for the government chart of vaccination rates. They are the highest they have ever been, actually, and pertussis is an endemic disease.

 

"Pertussis is considered an endemic disease, characterized by an epidemic every 2–5 years. This rate of exacerbations has not changed, even after the introduction of mass vaccination – a fact that indicates the efficacy of the vaccine in preventing the disease but not the transmission of the causative agent (B. pertussis) within the population [19]."

http://www.ima.org.il/imaj/ar06may-2.pdf

[twoforjoy]

One issue is that it only lasts so long (supposedly about 10 years). I got whooping cough when my kids were little, possibly due to dd getting 4yr old shots? I had had the shot at 14. My daughter turned 4 a couple months before I turned 23.

 

I was re-vaccinated in the hospital after I delivered my son. I think they told me that, if I hadn't had a Tdap shot as an adult, they recommended I get it.

[Twilight Woods]

Thank you! I asked my daughter and she is as cautious as me and thankfully A and E have been vaccinated on schedule for that one as well.

 

Thank you again -- the info was quite helpful.:001_smile:

 

I work in a hospital and I was exposed to pertussis a couple weeks ago. I was put on an antibiotic b/c I have not gotten a booster. I called about my children and was told they would be fine b/c of the shots they received.

 

 

HTH.

[abbeyej]

I know several people who have had pertussis in the last few years, including vaccinated children and adults. The likelihood of getting it goes way down, but it's still possible. (All of the people I know who've had it have recovered and are healthy now -- but passing it on to vulnerable people is a real concern.)