Principled purchasing - Aelwydd and others?

[Ginevra]

I'm wondering how many people buy products and food with principles in mind - principles that have to do with the seller/grower/producer of the goods. This stems from a rabbit trail my brain is on partly because of a post of Aelwydd's and partly because of a recent sermon at church. (The pastor was talking about fair-trade coffee.)

 

How much attention do you pay to fair-trade, local buying, humane animal practices or other similar quality-of-life considerations? Have you ever bought a piece of clothing (or considered it), but wondered how it was possible for this dress to be $9.15? Have you ever thought about buying a particular food or bit of produce until you noted that it was grown 5,000 miles away? Do you seek out products that do not test on animals or in some other fashion abuse animals? How frequently are you willing to pay more for a product because of principles upheld by the product? (I don't mean organic or benefits to the consumer, but pay more strictly to support the business practices.)

 

Just curious about the strategies people are using. :001_smile:

[Aelwydd]

I think of it all the time. So does dh. We will rarely (and I do mean rarely) shop Walmart or Target. I prefer buying from consignment shops first, and both of our computers we bought used.

 

I choose to spend a lot more money on ds' shoes (New Balance) because they are made by American workers (and thus, are paid at least minimum wage, and have OSHA protections). However, they last a lot, lot longer than anything I've bought for him in the past that was in China or Indonesia, I consider it a more-than-equal trade-off.

 

We pay a higher rate for electricity because we opt for 100% windmill energy (saving oil and gas for other production).

 

There's more, but those are some examples. We feel very strongly that, as we have been given the tools to research and understand where and how things are made, we have a responsibility to make better choices with our resources, based on that information.

[tntgoodwin]

I base it on my wallet.

 

Long term value is important to me. I don't care as much where something is made. If things I buy are made in a foreign country, I am helping provide jobs for the people making them.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I do think about what I'm purchasing on a regular basis. One of my close friends from college is very active in the fair trade world and goes on humanitarian delegations to factories, mines, etc. all over the world. I try to make conscious decisions about what I buy, but I don't always live up to my own ideals. I'm focusing on food and being aware of how and where it was grown. I joined a CSA for this purpose.

[Carol in Cal.]

I buy from a local CSA.

 

I try to patronize local non-chain stores, especially mom and pop ones.

 

Otherwise I try to find things used, and also my fall back stores are REI (a coop that treats their employees very well), and Nordstrom (last resort, but they have outstanding customer service and good charitable gifting).

 

I also try to consciously give things away a lot. I tend to give away used curriculum, and used up/outgrown clothes, and even books I'm done with, and I generally try to place them with people who will use them or with charities that give things away instead of selling them. I think that that enables others to live in a more environmentally concious way as well, and that's good.

[Rosie_0801]

The balance between energy, economics and ethics is hard to manage. Unfortunately ethics ends up at the bottom of the list, but I do my best.

 

 

Rosie

[Firefly]

Absolutely. I consider it with every single purchase I make. I feel like I vote with my dollar, so I want to make it count and make sure I'm supporting businesses whose practices I approve of and avoid those that don't. It's not easy, but I feel worth it.

[KS_]

I'm wondering how many people buy products and food with principles in mind - principles that have to do with the seller/grower/producer of the goods. This stems from a rabbit trail my brain is on partly because of a post of Aelwydd's and partly because of a recent sermon at church. (The pastor was talking about fair-trade coffee.)

 

How much attention do you pay to fair-trade, local buying, humane animal practices or other similar quality-of-life considerations? Have you ever bought a piece of clothing (or considered it), but wondered how it was possible for this dress to be $9.15? Have you ever thought about buying a particular food or bit of produce until you noted that it was grown 5,000 miles away? Do you seek out products that do not test on animals or in some other fashion abuse animals? How frequently are you willing to pay more for a product because of principles upheld by the product? (I don't mean organic or benefits to the consumer, but pay more strictly to support the business practices.)

 

Just curious about the strategies people are using. :001_smile:

 

We do a lot better with our food purchases I think than other household items. We buy fairly local grass fed beef by the half (they're about 2 hours away), pastured pork (not local, but a state away), free range chickens (either local-ish or organic ones I have bought online), organic produce when possible, and local or organic milk. We even went so far as to recently get chicks to raise for eggs when my local store stopped carrying Organic Valley eggs (they have some other "organic" ones that do not rate well at the Cornucopia Institute). We had discussed getting chickens before, but that was kind of the last push over the edge (and so far, they've been a lot of fun, but aren't laying yet).

 

I would like to be sustainable in all my purchases, but I try to focus on what I have energy and can deal with - I can't do it all, and if I try, I can easily become overwhelmed with all I'm not doing.

[Ginevra]

Absolutely. I consider it with every single purchase I make. I feel like I vote with my dollar, so I want to make it count and make sure I'm supporting businesses whose practices I approve of and avoid those that don't. It's not easy, but I feel worth it.

 

I remember a poster said on here one time (was it you?) that "Every time you buy something, that is like a tally mark, telling the producer to make more." That has really stuck with me. It is very often when I'm considering a purchase that I think, "Do I really want to tell producers to make more of this?" It sharply reduces the number of fly-by-night novelties or disposable trash that I bring home.

 

Last summer, I was doing very good with local produce, but I haven't put in the necessary time to do that this summer. :tongue_smilie: I have put produce back when I see the sticker saying, "Fresh from Argentina!!!" :svengo:

 

I also try to consciously give things away a lot. I tend to give away used curriculum, and used up/outgrown clothes, and even books I'm done with, and I generally try to place them with people who will use them or with charities that give things away instead of selling them. I think that that enables others to live in a more environmentally concious way as well, and that's good.

 

:iagree: I think about how happy it makes me when I find something spectacular at Goodwill and that helps me get over the, "But...gee...I spent good money for this widget. I can't just give it away."

[Parrothead]

I really try to buy sustainable and local when I can.

[Firefly]

I remember a poster said on here one time (was it you?) that "Every time you buy something, that is like a tally mark, telling the producer to make more."

 

It wasn't me, but I agree with the sentiment!

[Bang!Zoom!]

Yep, poison and animal cruelty are right up there for me having lived with and some how raised an activist.

 

I can hear her every where I go..

 

"Mom, do you have any idea what they do to animals so you can have safe makeup?"

 

I attended a few rescues with her and it really bothers me still. I used to live in an area where the strays were sold to the labs to experiment on.

 

That and the chemicals in foods really freak me out, so I watch for both organic and cruelty free products.

 

I use my smart phone in stores to check before I purchase if I'm not sure of the company.

 

As far as buying used and local, I try my best there as well.

 

I've written letters to the companies, manufactures, and joined boycotts before also.

 

There are a lot of PETA people in my family, so there's no choice in the matter whether or not you want to know. These people will turn the tags on your shirt, believe me.

 

Slave labor really bothers me, so I like fair trade when I can find it.

[Impish]

I can't afford principles. I can either feed and clothe my family, or do principled purchasing, not both.

[Firefly]

I can't afford principles. I can either feed and clothe my family, or do principled purchasing, not both.

 

I don't know your specific situation, so I'm only speaking personally here-- DH has been out of work for almost two years now. He's been painting and taking odd jobs just to make ends meet. It takes a lot of work to shop/eat the way we want to, but we're doing it. Not saying that it's possible for everyone, just that neither is it only a luxury of the well to do.

[Caitilin]

We do moderately well. Food I am careful about, and all out meat and milk is both local and humanely raised. Clothing is primarily used, so we do fairly well with that also. Energy, ehh, the budget can't take anymore stretching there, so I can't feel too great about that one. I try to combine my errand driving, as everything is 30 minutes away for us, and I have avoided buying gas from BP since the great oil catastrophe in the Gulf. I am doing the best I can with what I have got, as Mrs. Mungo Has said in another context. :D

[Hedgehog]

Budget permitting, I choose Fairtrade and/or locally produced items. Otherwise it's an Internet search to try and find the most ethical supplier/manufacturer. We try.

[Ginevra]

I use my smart phone in stores to check before I purchase if I'm not sure of the company.

 

That is a really great idea! I never thought of that before.

[pqr]

I try to buy American so Americans can hold their jobs. That is the principle that I work on.

Edited August 17, 2011 by pqr

[FairProspects]

I choose to spend a lot more money on ds' shoes (New Balance) because they are made by American workers (and thus, are paid at least minimum wage, and have OSHA protections). However, they last a lot, lot longer than anything I've bought for him in the past that was in China or Indonesia, I consider it a more-than-equal trade-off.

 

 

Nope, sorry, very few models are actually made in the U.S. I worked for an exclusive athletic shoe store and the distributor straight up told me that most New Balance shoes are now made overseas although a few are finished in the U.S. He also mentioned that the shoes made overseas were fitting tighter and getting better reviews from customers so they were likely to go more that direction in the future, although they work hard to prevent you from finding out this fact.

[Aelwydd]

Nope, sorry, very few models are actually made in the U.S. I worked for an exclusive athletic shoe store and the distributor straight up told me that most New Balance shoes are now made overseas although a few are finished in the U.S. He also mentioned that the shoes made overseas were fitting tighter and getting better reviews from customers so they were likely to go more that direction in the future, although they work hard to prevent you from finding out this fact.

 

Thanks for letting me know. Any other alternatives that are US made? NB does still own and operate a plant in Maine--are they getting ready to close it?

[FairProspects]

Thanks for letting me know. Any other alternatives that are US made? NB does still own and operate a plant in Maine--are they getting ready to close it?

 

As far as I know, they do still finish some of the shoes in the U.S. so I don't think they have plans to close it, but as to which models are made here and which are made over there, that is constantly changing and would probably require knowing someone who worked in the plant or a distributor.

[Aelwydd]

As far as I know, they do still finish some of the shoes in the U.S. so I don't think they have plans to close it, but as to which models are made here and which are made over there, that is constantly changing and would probably require knowing someone who worked in the plant or a distributor.

 

That's so disappointing. I like to buy from consignment and used clothing shops, but shoes are a bit more difficult to find than other items. I have narrow feet, and both my ds and I have a high arch. So, usually that means buying new shoes.

 

Do you have any suggestions?

[Rosie_0801]

That's so disappointing. I like to buy from consignment and used clothing shops, but shoes are a bit more difficult to find than other items. I have narrow feet, and both my ds and I have a high arch. So, usually that means buying new shoes.

 

Do you have any suggestions?

 

If you can't do good in one way, you might be able to in another. Can you buy from a small business?

 

For example, I can't afford to buy organic fruit and veg these days, but I can choose to buy from the local greengrocer instead of the supermarket.

 

Rosie

[Ginevra]

Nope, sorry, very few models are actually made in the U.S. I worked for an exclusive athletic shoe store and the distributor straight up told me that most New Balance shoes are now made overseas although a few are finished in the U.S. He also mentioned that the shoes made overseas were fitting tighter and getting better reviews from customers so they were likely to go more that direction in the future, although they work hard to prevent you from finding out this fact.

 

This is one thing I find very difficult. It's hard to find out the true origin of products even if you are trying very hard. I also think sometimes - how can I be sure this coffee is actually fair trade and not just really overpriced? My BIL said that to his wife re: free-range eggs. He does kinda have a point there, unless you go to the actual farm and watch them pack the eggs.

 

If I just make a general accounting of some foods I own, I have no idea where they come from. Where do my tea bags (Lipton decaf) come from? Who slaved away for the sugar I'm about to sprinkle in, too?

 

It's discouraging a lot.

[KS_]

This is one thing I find very difficult. It's hard to find out the true origin of products even if you are trying very hard. I also think sometimes - how can I be sure this coffee is actually fair trade and not just really overpriced? My BIL said that to his wife re: free-range eggs. He does kinda have a point there, unless you go to the actual farm and watch them pack the eggs.

 

If I just make a general accounting of some foods I own, I have no idea where they come from. Where do my tea bags (Lipton decaf) come from? Who slaved away for the sugar I'm about to sprinkle in, too?

 

It's discouraging a lot.

 

The Cornucopia Institute has scorecards on a few things - here are links to the egg and dairy ones:

 

http://www.cornucopia.org/dairysurvey/index.html

 

http://www.cornucopia.org/organic-egg-scorecard/

 

And here's a diagram of what companies own many organic companies:

 

http://www.cornucopia.org/wp-content/themes/Cornucopia/downloads/OrganicT30J09.pdf

 

Doesn't fill in all the blanks, obviously, but it's helpful in a few areas :)

[ladydusk]

Oops ... wrong post.

Edited August 17, 2011 by ladydusk
wrong post.

[Upward Journey]

nt.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Upward Journey

[FairProspects]

Unfortunately, I don't really have a lot of good alternative suggestions. Most of the shoes in our store were made in Asia. IIRC, Saucony shoes were made in Europe (Germany?) so that might be a good option. This was a few years ago, so you may want to check that they haven't moved their production to a lower cost country. Its not supporting the U.S., but when faced with a lack of alternatives, I usually choose European products over those made in "race to the bottom" countries.

[mirth]

A while ago a bunch of actors, mostly French, write a petition for release of Roman Polanski and running away from punishment for the rape of a 12 or 13yo girl a long time ago. One of the few actors/actresses I recognized was Tilda Swinton. Won't see/rent any movie in which she has any role.

Edited August 17, 2011 by mirth

[Aelwydd]

Unfortunately, I don't really have a lot of good alternative suggestions. Most of the shoes in our store were made in Asia. IIRC, Saucony shoes were made in Europe (Germany?) so that might be a good option. This was a few years ago, so you may want to check that they haven't moved their production to a lower cost country. Its not supporting the U.S., but when faced with a lack of alternatives, I usually choose European products over those made in "race to the bottom" countries.

 

Yes, that's my preference as well. I thought about some brands, like Reebok, but they all seem to be made in Indonesia and Asia. I don't begrudge people jobs, but I can't abide business practices that involve children, unsafe working conditions, and 18-20 hour days, just so I can save $10.

 

So, I suppose in order of my preference, here's how I'll shop for shoes:

 

1. Buy consignment or used

2. Buy New Balance (if US made)

3. Buy European produced shoes

 

I also like Rosie's suggestion, that if I can't find an alternative to goods produced by economic slave labor, that I give my business to small, local shops.