Why do I often see issues with homeschooling in PA?

[happypamama]

I know PA is one of the more restrictive states with its requirements; I homeschool in PA myself.

 

But PA's requirements are not the only strict ones, according to HSLDA's site. I see people post about issues with PA all the time, but I don't see people posting about say, Massachusetts and New York, and there are lots of people there. (I understand not seeing posts about RI, ND, and VT, since their populations are smaller.) Are PA's that much more confusing, or what? Just curious.

[Carrie12345]

Personally, I think it's because PA's are so cumbersome, yet so vague. While I'm happy with the vagueness, it *does* complicate the matter of documenting compliance for sd officials.

[NanceXToo]

Personally, I think it's because PA's are so cumbersome, yet so vague. While I'm happy with the vagueness, it *does* complicate the matter of documenting compliance for sd officials.

 

Yep.

 

And then throw in the fact that a vast number of superintendents aren't even familiar with the law and randomly decide to ask for things not even required by law as if they are entitled to it.

[Carrie12345]

Oh, and add in the fact that many school districts are dealing with affidavits and portfolios in the triple digits. We have large districts!!! It's in their best interest to try to streamline, and understandably so. So I am willing to accommodate in some small ways.

[Tarreymere]

Maybe it has something to do with Three Mile Island back in the seventies...........:D

[Hunter's Moon]

I've complained about Massachusetts before :D And with all the hoops to jump through, state colleges still won't look at me without a GED because my district doesn't give me a public school diploma.

 

In Massachusetts though, state testing isn't a requirement. I'm sure some superintendents try to push for the parent to choose that route, but another form of assessment can be requested, by law, such as a teacher evaluation of the work done or a yearly portfolio. Honestly, I would hate to keep up with the state testing requirements. It's nice to see where the child places for peace of mind, but when it's a requirement, a whole new pressure is added, KWIM?

[Ellie]

It just goes to show that having more restrictive laws doesn't keep public school officials happy. Hs leaders in some states think that by complying with illegal "requests" from school officials will result in school officials leaving them alone. PA proves this is not the case.:glare:

 

PA's laws really are the most draconian. NY's aren't as bad as they look at first glance. ND's law doesn't have lots of moving parts; although RI is an approval state, the law doesn't require all the stuff PA's requires; ditto MA and RI.

[East Coast Sue]

This is why we chose to live in Delaware over PA, although my dh works in PA.

 

We moved from Texas where there are no requirements, so I knew PA was going to be a nightmare when I called the local school district (where we had thought about living in PA).... The school official "in charge of homeschoolers" was absolutely clueless and totally against home schoolers thinking they can select their own curriculum. She started the conversation by interrupting me and telling me that she would consider approving my plans but maybe not.... I quickly ended the conversation and found a place to live in Delaware.

 

I have heard that it is all up to the district's representative and how they interpret the requirements/statutes.

[Momof3littles]

It just goes to show that having more restrictive laws doesn't keep public school officials happy. Hs leaders in some states think that by complying with illegal "requests" from school officials will result in school officials leaving them alone. PA proves this is not the case.:glare:

 

 

 

Exactly.

[creekland]

 

I have heard that it is all up to the district's representative and how they interpret the requirements/statutes.

 

This is definitely true. We've never run into even the slightest problem and certainly don't consider the requirements restrictive in the least. Keeping a portfolio and writing course descriptions has been great for college apps later on (as we're working on the common app homeschool supplement this year).

 

But some of the stories I hear on here amaze me.

[kathy_overman]

So we are about to start HS'ing in PA, and I just read 'ask Pauline' for the PA requirements, and it makes me want to select a different path, ugh.

 

I wonder if we should sign up for a cyber school and then add in our own fun stuff, at least until we are more comfortable w/ HS'ing.

 

Does anyone have their curriculum plans they want to share? We have a 3rd grader and 2nd grader that have been in PS, so I have to register them.

 

Is anyone in the Kennett Square District?

 

Any words of wisdom for 1st timers in PA? Thanks.:tongue_smilie:

[Doodle]

:crying: This is my last year before becoming "official". I hope my district isn't difficult...

[Dee MBM]

Yep.

 

And then throw in the fact that a vast number of superintendents aren't even familiar with the law and randomly decide to ask for things not even required by law as if they are entitled to it.

 

:iagree: I have experienced this.

[Ellie]

So we are about to start HS'ing in PA, and I just read 'ask Pauline' for the PA requirements, and it makes me want to select a different path, ugh.

 

I wonder if we should sign up for a cyber school and then add in our own fun stuff, at least until we are more comfortable w/ HS'ing.

 

Does anyone have their curriculum plans they want to share? We have a 3rd grader and 2nd grader that have been in PS, so I have to register them.

 

Is anyone in the Kennett Square District?

 

Any words of wisdom for 1st timers in PA? Thanks.:tongue_smilie:

I would rather put up with the restrictive PA requirements and privately homeschool than to do public school at home. And I would join HSLDA right away, too, to help me run the gauntlet of idiot public school officials if it comes to that. :glare:

[Dee MBM]

This is why we chose to live in Delaware over PA, although my dh works in PA.

 

We moved from Texas where there are no requirements, so I knew PA was going to be a nightmare when I called the local school district (where we had thought about living in PA).... The school official "in charge of homeschoolers" was absolutely clueless and totally against home schoolers thinking they can select their own curriculum. She started the conversation by interrupting me and telling me that she would consider approving my plans but maybe not.... I quickly ended the conversation and found a place to live in Delaware.

 

I have heard that it is all up to the district's representative and how they interpret the requirements/statutes.

 

The first time I withdrew my Son from the public School & registered him into homeschooling..the very first comment I got, I'm sorry but you can't homeschool without a high school diploma..I was stunned, I was already judged by not having a hs diploma..My response- well thank you for the heads up, But I have a College degree. also by law, which is in the application..the district has to provide my son with a lesson plan & books, in the 7 years I've been Homeschooling I was never provided with such things, I gave up & just did it myself & bought the books myself.

[NanceXToo]

So we are about to start HS'ing in PA, and I just read 'ask Pauline' for the PA requirements, and it makes me want to select a different path, ugh.

 

I wonder if we should sign up for a cyber school and then add in our own fun stuff, at least until we are more comfortable w/ HS'ing.

 

Does anyone have their curriculum plans they want to share? We have a 3rd grader and 2nd grader that have been in PS, so I have to register them.

 

Is anyone in the Kennett Square District?

 

Any words of wisdom for 1st timers in PA? Thanks.:tongue_smilie:

 

No, don't be scared off!! PA can be a bit of a PITA and the requirements look overwhelming at first, but, truly they aren't. Once you read through it a couple of times and break it down step by step and go through the process once you will see it wasn't anywhere near as "bad" or hard as it looked.

 

Maybe this will help you:

 

Affidavit for homeschooling in PA:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/215934.html

 

 

Objectives for homeschooling in PA:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/122810.html

 

 

PA Portfolio example:

 

http://nancextoo.livejournal.com/226816.html

 

 

Hope this helps. :)

[Ellie]

No, don't be scared off!! PA can be a bit of a PITA and the requirements look overwhelming at first, but, truly they aren't. Once you read through it a couple of times and break it down step by step and go through the process once you will see it wasn't anywhere near as "bad" or hard as it looked.

As someone who homeschooled in California and who now lives in Texas, yes, PA requirements are as bad as they look. :eek: :ack2: Notarized affidavits, annual proof of immunizations and health records, portfolios, evaluations by a third party, the possibility of superintendent's determining that an "appropriae education is not taking place" requiring extra proof that the child is being educated, standardized tests administered by a third party...yeah...

[beaners]

We have a couple years before we need to send in an affidavit, but the local district here notes that they will give you a packet to fill out and return to them. I'm hopeful that it's just them trying to be helpful and that they will accept exactly what the law lays out and no more - without a fight.

[NanceXToo]

As someone who homeschooled in California and who now lives in Texas, yes, PA requirements are as bad as they look. :eek: :ack2: Notarized affidavits, annual proof of immunizations and health records, portfolios, evaluations by a third party, the possibility of superintendent's determining that an "appropriae education is not taking place" requiring extra proof that the child is being educated, standardized tests administered by a third party...yeah...

 

Yes, well, the point of my post was that it is not as difficult to get through the process as it might appear by looking over the law. Once you go through the process you will realize it was not as difficult or overwhelming as it appeared at first glance. Something important for a new homeschooler in PA to know as I don't think she should be scared off to the point where she decides to cyberschool instead.

 

I'm not saying the law doesn't suck. But it is what it is and we have to make the best of it here in PA. Doing so is not as hard as it might seem though.

[Doodle]

 

..Does anyone have their curriculum plans they want to share? We have a 3rd grader and 2nd grader that have been in PS, so I have to register them...

 

 

 

Doodle is second grade. I can email details if you are interested.

[Tarreymere]

We have a couple years before we need to send in an affidavit, but the local district here notes that they will give you a packet to fill out and return to them. I'm hopeful that it's just them trying to be helpful and that they will accept exactly what the law lays out and no more - without a fight.

 

 

I can't imagine what they would want that would go in a 'packet'. I sent one piece of paper to my SD, the affidavit. On the affidavit I 'attested' to having a high school diploma, to my kids being up to date on immunizations and medical and dental things, ect. I read the law and I do not feel it requires me to send in any copies of any private medical or dental information if I am willing to 'attest' in a notarized statement that I have those things on file, which I do, at home. I did NOT send ANY copies of anything. Just one notarized piece of paper.

 

The word 'packet' sends up a red flag to me, FYI. Can you get your hands on it now, just to see what you will be up against? What exactly do they want you to 'fill out'?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

As someone who homeschooled in California and who now lives in Texas, yes, PA requirements are as bad as they look. :eek: :ack2: Notarized affidavits, annual proof of immunizations and health records, portfolios, evaluations by a third party, the possibility of superintendent's determining that an "appropriae education is not taking place" requiring extra proof that the child is being educated, standardized tests administered by a third party...yeah...

 

I know plenty of PA homeschoolers who have had no problems homeschooling in PA at all. They don't see it as difficult at all. Many use the religious exemption for medical records/immunization records even when they do all of the medically recommended things. As for testing, our co-op had another mom do the testing. Some tests only require someone besides the parents which could be another family member as well. I even talked to a couple of minimalist evaluators who were willing to do distance evaluations via email and phone. So all in all the dozens of homeschoolers I met felt that it was really quite easy to homeschool in PA:)

[Carrie12345]

Yes, well, the point of my post was that it is not as difficult to get through the process as it might appear by looking over the law. Once you go through the process you will realize it was not as difficult or overwhelming as it appeared at first glance. Something important for a new homeschooler in PA to know as I don't think she should be scared off to the point where she decides to cyberschool instead.

 

I'm not saying the law doesn't suck. But it is what it is and we have to make the best of it here in PA. Doing so is not as hard as it might seem though.

:iagree:

The regulations should be changed (ideally, to NOTHING!) But there's nothing about them that should be considered intimidating enough to scare people into settling for a plan B.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

We have a couple years before we need to send in an affidavit, but the local district here notes that they will give you a packet to fill out and return to them. I'm hopeful that it's just them trying to be helpful and that they will accept exactly what the law lays out and no more - without a fight.

 

I don't believe PA law requires you to use a packet or particular forms. I would scour askpauline's web site. Also, the homeschool liason in the Department of Education is very helpful as well.

[NittanyJen]

So we are about to start HS'ing in PA, and I just read 'ask Pauline' for the PA requirements, and it makes me want to select a different path, ugh.

 

I wonder if we should sign up for a cyber school and then add in our own fun stuff, at least until we are more comfortable w/ HS'ing.

 

Does anyone have their curriculum plans they want to share? We have a 3rd grader and 2nd grader that have been in PS, so I have to register them.

 

Is anyone in the Kennett Square District?

 

Any words of wisdom for 1st timers in PA? Thanks.:tongue_smilie:

 

I would be surprised if Kennett Square gave you much trouble at all-- they are an outstanding school district in general (when we started having problems, our list of options included moving to Kennett or Unionville-Chadds Ford; homeschooling was actually a late choice for us-- though we have NOT looked back :):):)). We'd have been pleased to attend PS there, and the admin there tends to be pretty "with it."

 

If all else fails, you can always hop 3 miles down the road into Delaware :lol:

 

BTW, are you new to the area?? There are homeschool classes offered by the Delaware Museum of Natural History 2 Fridays a month, on Rte 52 . . . homeschool classes at Longwood Gardens . . . A homeschool gym class is being offered at the Hockessin Athletic Club (about 10 min from Kennett, straight down Rt 7/Limestone Road) open to non-members, registration ends Sept 6 (late reg possible with a late fee) for ages 5-15 that is really well-done; there will be a fall session, winter I and II, and spring sessions, 7 weeks each. There's more around here . . . kind of hard to fit in actual school if you know what I mean :)

[beaners]

I don't believe PA law requires you to use a packet or particular forms. I would scour askpauline's web site. Also, the homeschool liason in the Department of Education is very helpful as well.

 

It absolutely doesn't. I'm just not sure how many other people actually know that.

 

HOME SCHOOLING

Home Schooling is a program that may be conducted by a parent, guardian, or person having legal custody of the child or children. The supervisor is responsible for providing and supervising the home instruction. This person must have a high school diploma or equivalency.

 

Before a Home Education program may begin, a Home Education Packet must be requested from the building principal at the school which the student would attend if attending a regular public school education. The forms must be completed and submitted to the Office of the Superintendent for authorization/approval. An approval letter must be received by the Home Education Supervisor before the Home Education can begin.

 

For optimal learning conditions, it is recommended the Home Education programs start at the beginning of the school year and continue through the end of the school year. Once a Home Education Program is started, it extends through that school year. Forms are completed by the Home Education Supervisor and submitted to the Office of the Superintendent by August 1. Thereafter, for each subsequent year, they must be submitted by August 1.

 

 

When a Home Education student transfers into the school districts public schools at the middle or high school level, the Home Education portfolio is reviewed for a listing of prerequisite courses to determine if the student is able to continue in the next level course specifically in the areas of math, science, and world language. The portfolio helps us to determine if the courses have been taken. The Home Education evaluator‘s report helps us to determine if students have been successful in their Home Education program overall. Based on a positive report from the evaluator and a complete portfolio, HASD acknowledges that the courses have been taken and that they satisfy prerequisite requirements. Grades from Home Education do not appear on the HASD transcript.

 

Portfolios of students entering at the elementary level are reviewed by the principal and guidance counselor to assist in determining grade level placement. Curriculum-based assessments are also frequently administered by reading teachers to determine the student‘s reading level and to help with grade placement decisions.

 

This is what one of the district's handbooks stated for last year. I don't actually know what elementary school we would even be assigned to if I wanted to get a packet and see what it contains. I have no intention of doing anything more than required by law. I'm just not sure how well it will go over. I have a few years before that point though.

[happypamama]

:iagree:

The regulations should be changed (ideally, to NOTHING!) But there's nothing about them that should be considered intimidating enough to scare people into settling for a plan B.

 

Yes, that. It sounds like most of the issues are because of superintendents not knowing the law. The law itself IS a pain, but at least it's vague. We chose to live in PA instead of MD for other reasons (and we did have a choice; DH commutes to MD every day for work); the homeschooling laws in PA can be worked around, whereas there's no work-around for the reasons we didn't want to live in MD.

 

For the people considering PA, the requirements are dumb, but the vagueness helps -- you can send in exemptions for the medical/dental/vaxes (even if you do some or all of them), use very vague objectives, give them minimal portfolio stuff, and use online testing for the standardized tests. If they give you official forms or packets, I would personally ignore those and send them only what the law requires. If they complain, put the burden on them to show you where you have not complied with the law.

[Joy at Home]

We have a couple years before we need to send in an affidavit, but the local district here notes that they will give you a packet to fill out and return to them. I'm hopeful that it's just them trying to be helpful and that they will accept exactly what the law lays out and no more - without a fight.

 

Yep, probably them trying to be helpful. Print your own forms out on askPauline.

 

I've been hsing in PA for ten years. The first year our principal flagged a couple things in our portfolio, but a "friendly" letter from me quoting the law and no problems since.

 

I am an absolute minimalist when it comes submitting. My affidavit contains a sentence attesting that my kids are up to date on immunizations, etc. Before that I took the religious exemption. When testing is required, I use Seton Hall and they take it at home. My portfolio is pathetically light, just the absolute minimum. No problems at all.

 

Be confidant in what you're doing, know the law, and you'll be fine.

 

Lisa

[Joy at Home]

Yes, that. It sounds like most of the issues are because of superintendents not knowing the law. The law itself IS a pain, but at least it's vague. We chose to live in PA instead of MD for other reasons (and we did have a choice; DH commutes to MD every day for work); the homeschooling laws in PA can be worked around, whereas there's no work-around for the reasons we didn't want to live in MD.

 

For the people considering PA, the requirements are dumb, but the vagueness helps -- you can send in exemptions for the medical/dental/vaxes (even if you do some or all of them), use very vague objectives, give them minimal portfolio stuff, and use online testing for the standardized tests. If they give you official forms or packets, I would personally ignore those and send them only what the law requires. If they complain, put the burden on them to show you where you have not complied with the law.

 

Good avice:001_smile:

 

Lisa

[Momof3littles]

I don't like that wording at all. As PPs said, you can submit your own version of the affadavit and objectives. I haven't filed yet but I don't think you need any sort of "approval letter" whatsoever.

 

I would be very uncomfortable with that type of wording and would do my own thing in compliance w/ the actual law as written.

 

eta: I hate PDE's new and ridiculously inaccurate site, but this is from their website:

 

Homeschooling is a right and the school's permission is not needed, as long as the required documentation is submitted with the affidavit.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Momof3littles

[TracyR]

I've done both cyber and traditional.

I prefer traditional. The cybers in PA are becoming very restrictive lately. That being because they aren't making AYP like they should because the cybers are getting children who are coming from public schools. Meaning they are the students falling through the cracks. So the cyberschools have to work extremely hard to plug as much information into their brains as possible before PSSA time. Its not the school but the testing that's the problem.

 

Anyways the law is a PITA. But its not impossible. I was pleasantly surprised when all I had to do was take the paper work in. Get a receipt and was free.

One thing I do is draw up a form saying that my children's medical records are all in their doctor's office files. I do not believe that the school district needs to have my children's medical records. They are private and according to HIPPA laws I have the right to keep them private. There is a law , its on that Ask Pauline site. I copy and paste it, add my girls' doctors name , address and phone number. Get it notorized and end of storyl Our district has yet to challenge this so far.

[suzf242]

I think a lot of how difficult PA is depends on the district.

 

Another thing you may not know -- if you are a certified teacher in the state of PA, you can use the Private Tutor Law to homeschool your children. I use this in my district with no problems. All I do is send a letter of intent at the beginning of the year and another letter at the end stating that our objectives were met. No portfolio, no evaluator, no affidaits, no required testing.

 

Again, Ask Pauline is a great resource if you need to check into it more closely.

 

Take care,

Suzanne

[LidiyaDawn]

I just looked up the regulations for there… Holy cow. :001_huh:

 

I would NEVER move there. Good grief… evaluations? having to be "approved" to homeschool? (heck they might not even approve me - does the GED count as a high school diploma to them?) No way, wouldn't do it.

 

[and what's with the emphasis on fire?]

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It absolutely doesn't. I'm just not sure how many other people actually know that.

 

This is what one of the district's handbooks stated for last year. I don't actually know what elementary school we would even be assigned to if I wanted to get a packet and see what it contains. I have no intention of doing anything more than required by law. I'm just not sure how well it will go over. I have a few years before that point though.

 

I have heard that the PDE homeschool liason has set the record straight for a few school districts on what is actually required when they tried to overstep their bounds:D Hopefully that is still the same.

[happypamama]

I just looked up the regulations for there… Holy cow. :001_huh:

 

I would NEVER move there. Good grief… evaluations? having to be "approved" to homeschool? (heck they might not even approve me - does the GED count as a high school diploma to them?) No way, wouldn't do it.

 

[and what's with the emphasis on fire?]

 

It really sounds worse than it is. Yes, you have to DO the stuff, but generally, it's really not that big of a deal. The evaluation -- you keep a few samples of work/certificates from classes/etc., an attendance calendar (which is just checking off boxes that *you* consider to be school days), and a list of reading materials used, and you sit down for an hour or so with a nice person (pick one who is good for you), pay a small fee, and chat. In my case, the evaluator is a good friend; she chatted with my DD about some of the things mentioned in her portfolio, looked at the samples and test scores, filled out her official form that goes to the school district (her form has only the information required by law), and that was it. Really easy, and the nice thing about needing to have the portfolio is that it made *me* put the stuff together as a keepsake for later (which I might not have gotten around to doing otherwise).

 

The fire emphasis is silly. Most people just go to a fire station or some little thing -- it's not a big deal, just silly.

 

You don't have to be approved. You send in your paperwork, and you're good. My district sends a letter telling me they've approved my paperwork, but I don't have to wait for that letter before starting to count days/work. If they ever sent me a letter telling me they didn't approve me, I would insist that they show me why my paperwork didn't meet the law.

 

It really is not that bad! Just silly. Mostly it's just a few extra minutes of work to give the district something that meets the law (and since the law is so vague, you can use any type of school method and find a way to report it). And the flip side is that there are lots of homeschoolers here, so there are lots of support groups, and at least in my part of the state, the community as a whole is positive toward the homeschoolers. And there are so many other great reasons to live in PA -- there are other states that may be even friendlier to homeschoolers, but for other reasons, they are on my "do not move here" list! To each their own. :)

[creekland]

As someone who homeschooled in California and who now lives in Texas, yes, PA requirements are as bad as they look. :eek: :ack2: Notarized affidavits, annual proof of immunizations and health records, portfolios, evaluations by a third party, the possibility of superintendent's determining that an "appropriae education is not taking place" requiring extra proof that the child is being educated, standardized tests administered by a third party...yeah...

 

But see, this isn't difficult at all where I am. We stop by the school and pick up one sheet of paper for our affidavit. We fill in the blanks and our bank notarizes it. We fill out a list with a brief description of courses (generally cut and paste from other years at this point - just changing when a new course pops up). We sign a paper stating that our kids have health records on file with our doctor and dentist.

 

Portfolios are made throughout the year and consist of 10 - 12 examples of their work from each subject - for us, generally tests. We are friends with our evaluator who also homeschools and generally have a "get together" along with the evaluation. At the end of the school year, we drop off the portfolios and pick up the paper for the next year's evaluation.

 

Personally, I don't see where any of it is a problem in my district.

 

Now the common application for college... that's a bit more of a big deal... AND... I had just finished my portion for the homeschool supplement and had it saved as a word document when the hard drive broke on the computer I was using. It's in the repair shop seeing if changing the electrical circuit board will help it work again (no promises - fairly major $$ for our budget). :banghead: The courses part of the app wasn't a big problem since we already had it on our computer due to homeschooling in PA. The counselor letter and description of why we homeschool is going to be a pain to recreate - just because I put a whole day of time into it before and I don't have a photographic memory.

[Tarreymere]

"Before a Home Education program may begin, a Home Education Packet must be requested from the building principal at the school which the student would attend if attending a regular public school education. The forms must be completed and submitted to the Office of the Superintendent for authorization/approval. An approval letter must be received by the Home Education Supervisor before the Home Education can begin. "

 

This is completely false. You do NOT have to get any packet from anyone, you do NOT need to complete their forms, and you do NOT need an approval letter before you can begin homeschooling. Geez, these people need a copy of the law mailed to them.

[Carrie12345]

 

The fire emphasis is silly. Most people just go to a fire station or some little thing -- it's not a big deal, just silly.

 

 

 

One of our local firehouses has an open house every year. Firetruck ride, visit with Smokey, free pencils, etc. Each year, there's a sentence in our portfolios that says "Attended XYZ Firehouse Open House" with a safety brochure stuck in the pocket. And it does wind up serving as a reminder to run through our emergency plans!

 

"Before a Home Education program may begin, a Home Education Packet must be requested from the building principal at the school which the student would attend if attending a regular public school education. The forms must be completed and submitted to the Office of the Superintendent for authorization/approval. An approval letter must be received by the Home Education Supervisor before the Home Education can begin. "

 

This is completely false. You do NOT have to get any packet from anyone, you do NOT need to complete their forms, and you do NOT need an approval letter before you can begin homeschooling. Geez, these people need a copy of the law mailed to them.

 

Yeah, THAT would really tick me off. I print out my own affidavit based on Pauline's examples, a page for my vax/dr objection (for ethical reasons similar to a religious belief), and a quick blurb on vague objectives.

 

I would refuse to do the packet simply based on the fact that they're lying about it being needed, even if everything in it was A-okay.