We turned down a really neat science competition today. I stand by our reasoning even

[FaithManor]

if it wasn't popular!

 

We had the opportunity to take a team of three plus one adult to Washington D.C. for a robotics/science expo. The travel expenses were to be paid through a grant and the grant was not provided through 4-H council so the company controlling the money, controlled the travel arrangements. We had a mixed gender team, but only one adult could go paid. So, fine...dh and I were prepared for me to go at our own expense so I could room with and directly supervise the young lady. Oh no....the organizers of the event are planning on housing all of the kids, single gender, together in groups of four in the Doubletree Hotel in DC with NO adults in the rooms. That's right...four teens, ages 14-18 from across the country who do not know each other, would be randomly assigned rooms (though not co-ed) without a supervising adult. Adults would be assigned to room with each other, four to a room so YOU SHARE A BED WITH A STRANGER!). Not only do I NOT want to share a bed with a total stranger, but I certainly don't want my kid doing it either, hang the added expense of more rooms.

 

Our son was supposed to be on the team. The thought of him staying with three other teens, no guarantee he'd even be on the same floor of the hotel as his dad, made me a little nauseous. Additionally, the 14 year old girl on the team had her parents go berserk. I don't blame them. She's a brilliant, strong child, but also VERY introverted. Her sharing a bathroom with three other girls she's never met, much less a bed, no way...she would never be able to bring herself to do it.

 

It's very disappointing, but even if the kids did their own fundraising and paid for their own rooms so that the sponsoring organization did not pay for it, we would still have NO control over the housing arrangements. We had to agree to their housing controls. We didn't mind staying in the same hotel. It's just that dh and our 4-H council plus the other boy's parents wanted a room with dh, C, and the other boy and then a room for me and the young lady. We didn't think that was unreasonable and certainly not if our 4-H council was paying for it! No can do...they've pre-reserved x rooms in the hotel and room assignments must go through them, no exceptions.

 

Are we being paranoid? My mind goes to strange places...you know...the kid on ritalin, or prozac or whatever, and without an adult in the room, that means other teens may access the meds, etc. Kids with laptops downloading p**n because their isn't a chaperone, etc. Our 4-H extension office is pretty adamant about appropriate chaperoning and so are we. The local high school sent the Spanish class to Spain two years ago and none of the adults were housed with the teens. The boys took booze up to their rooms (legal drinking age in Spain is 15 so they were able to purchase with their passports as i.d.) and got themselves seriously drunk. The one boy was so bad that when discovered in the morning passed out in his own vomit, he had to have medical care. Seems to me that there needs to be a respected, well-checked out, thoroughly vetted with proper character references, grown-up in each room.

 

Sigh, off to find another robotics competition that's either in state or where we have control of the hotel arrangements.

 

Faith

[Impish]

I'd have made the same decision.

[Susann]

I totally agree!!!

[WishboneDawn]

I'm with you on this. :001_smile:

[Moxie]

I don't know, I used to go to FHA conferences in high school that were set up in that way. All the kids stayed together and all the adults stayed together. The adults knew each other, the kids didn't. I remember it being fun. Although, we were all girls and this was before computers. Tough call!

[ChristusG]

I agree with you 100%. No way, no how would I be doing that.

[ashfern]

I agree with you. I wouldn't want to be with complete strangers either.

[katilac]

Back in the day (1980s), I remember kids being assigned to rooms with kids they didn't know all the time. Never, ever did an adult share a room with a kid. That comes with its own set of problems, imo.

 

If adults or teens are squicked about sharing a bed, they can always kip on the sofa, chair, or floor. I don't see that as a big deal, really. They will survive a few nights on the floor. And someone who is going to freak out about sharing a bathroom with strangers is going to have a very hard time in the world of competitions and conferences, period. Not to mention college ;)

 

As far as access to meds, the biggest factor is going to be if the one teen is careless and the other teen is seeking. Not sharing a room or knowing the people in your room isn't nearly as effective as being both discrete and careful.

 

It's possible that they want control over the housing arrangements so that they can have control over the supervision. Having all the kids on certain floors, with supervisors in rooms on each end, makes some sense to me. I seem to remember that, along with some supervisors taking turns patrolling the halls and elevators until a certain time.

 

Instead of insisting on an adult in each room, or rooming with my group only, I'd probably prefer to have long discussions with the kids, and safeguards in place. Let them know what will get them booted off the team. Let them know what to do if things in their room get out of control. Roleplay. Maybe make sure they have a cell phone so they can go in the bathroom to call or text for help/advice. Maybe let it be known that you will be checking in on every room randomly (every room of your team, not every room in the hotel, :D).

 

Yes, bad things can happen, but I wouldn't pass up every great opportunity because of what might happen. Talking in advance about temptations and consequences can go a long way towards keeping things safe. Having the kids review and sign written agreements helps, too. Emphasize that no one pays the price of getting in trouble on their own; they will also cause big problems for their teammates and advisors.

 

Now, I might have passed on THIS opportunity if time was short, and a decision had to be made quickly. But I think this arrangement is very typical, and I'd start working on gameplan for the future.

[Sahamamama]

I can share a bed with my husband ;), any of my children, and my mother. :lol: Anyone else, nope.

 

I could possibly share a room with a group of other mothers, although I'd rather not if they're strangers. Especially if any of them snores. :glare: I'm a truly horrible person when I'm sleep deprived. :blush:

[CarenM]

I would have made the same decision

[Cedarmom]

Well you need to make the decisions that work best for your family,regardless of others opinions. What is the age of your son? We let my son do something similar for engineering when he was 16. He slept in a shared room with boys, but they were one to a bed and one on the floor-cause there was no way they were sharing a bed. But there was no adult chaperone in the room. There was a list of rules, that at least to me seemed rather strict. So, I felt good about that. I did worry about the things you mentioned. We talked before hand with my son about what to do in differant situations. At 16 I felt he was capable. YOunger probably not. Part of the reason I felt better too was becuase the people in charge of the event had sent out a list of policies/consequences for not following them, so I had the feeling they knew what they were doing. But for some things (Like kids download objectionable stuff on computer) you just have to know your kid is mature enough to make the right choice.

[DusksAngel]

We used to share rooms when we went to competitions, but we all knew each other. We usually had one or two on the floor. I would rather my kids be with someone they know than complete strangers.

[FaithManor]

Back in the day (1980s), I remember kids being assigned to rooms with kids they didn't know all the time. Never, ever did an adult share a room with a kid. That comes with its own set of problems, imo.

 

If adults or teens are squicked about sharing a bed, they can always kip on the sofa, chair, or floor. I don't see that as a big deal, really. They will survive a few nights on the floor. And someone who is going to freak out about sharing a bathroom with strangers is going to have a very hard time in the world of competitions and conferences, period. Not to mention college ;)

 

As far as access to meds, the biggest factor is going to be if the one teen is careless and the other teen is seeking. Not sharing a room or knowing the people in your room isn't nearly as effective as being both discrete and careful.

 

It's possible that they want control over the housing arrangements so that they can have control over the supervision. Having all the kids on certain floors, with supervisors in rooms on each end, makes some sense to me. I seem to remember that, along with some supervisors taking turns patrolling the halls and elevators until a certain time.

 

Instead of insisting on an adult in each room, or rooming with my group only, I'd probably prefer to have long discussions with the kids, and safeguards in place. Let them know what will get them booted off the team. Let them know what to do if things in their room get out of control. Roleplay. Maybe make sure they have a cell phone so they can go in the bathroom to call or text for help/advice. Maybe let it be known that you will be checking in on every room randomly (every room of your team, not every room in the hotel, :D).

 

Yes, bad things can happen, but I wouldn't pass up every great opportunity because of what might happen. Talking in advance about temptations and consequences can go a long way towards keeping things safe. Having the kids review and sign written agreements helps, too. Emphasize that no one pays the price of getting in trouble on their own; they will also cause big problems for their teammates and advisors.

 

Now, I might have passed on THIS opportunity if time was short, and a decision had to be made quickly. But I think this arrangement is very typical, and I'd start working on gameplan for the future.

 

If this were dormitory style in a college setting, separate beds, adults kept on the same floor, we'd consider it. But, they will not guarantee that all of our team will be kept on the same floor and that we would be housed on that floor. That's not good enough. I am responsible to my 4-H organization for the health and well being, safety of these kids when we are on the road.

 

We don't have this problem with our competitive rocketry team. All housing is up to the chaperones and sponsoring organizations. There is a list of recommended hotels in Manassas, VA and we make the arrangements. This is something I can live with...additionally, the winning team who competes in France, has chaperones in their rooms. I think that's pretty wise.

 

I guess it is just simply beyond our comfort zone to have no say in the housing arrangements and in particular, a hotel of the size of the Doubletree. We could end up assigned 5-10 floors away from the kids we are supposed to be supervising.

 

Faith

[FaithManor]

Well you need to make the decisions that work best for your family,regardless of others opinions. What is the age of your son? We let my son do something similar for engineering when he was 16. He slept in a shared room with boys, but they were one to a bed and one on the floor-cause there was no way they were sharing a bed. But there was no adult chaperone in the room. There was a list of rules, that at least to me seemed rather strict. So, I felt good about that. I did worry about the things you mentioned. We talked before hand with my son about what to do in differant situations. At 16 I felt he was capable. YOunger probably not. Part of the reason I felt better too was becuase the people in charge of the event had sent out a list of policies/consequences for not following them, so I had the feeling they knew what they were doing. But for some things (Like kids download objectionable stuff on computer) you just have to know your kid is mature enough to make the right choice.

 

Hi, he is 14. The young girl that I would have been supervising has just turned 14. So, on the younger side of their high school years which is another reason we feel that this isn't a good fit for us or the team.

 

I asked for the list of consequences, rules, etc. They are very, very general and I think that is a problem to. The only real rule was to be respectful, and remember that you represent your sponsoring organization. The only other rule was that if hotel management complained, you or your team could be asked to leave. For me, that's too general. There are a lot of things that a lot of parents don't want their kids doing that hotel management would not be aware of unless it ended in broken items. This is not enough guidance in my book.

 

But if these were high school seniors and we could at least be guaranteed that we would be assigned to the same floor so that if they had a problem, we could be accessed easily and quickly, and if dh and I could pay for our own room and stay together because I am not sharing a bed with some strange woman and with my hip bothering me the way it is, I'm not sleeping on the floor, then it would be doable.

 

Faith

[bettyandbob]

I have let my ds go on things like things. ds tells me when there are more boys than beds the pillows go to people sleeping on the floor. Whatever. They figure it out.

 

Typically, the chaperones tape the doors. They don't stay up watching if someone comes out of a room. In the morning if the tape is broken before a chaperone comes by then the belongings of all persons must be searched as well as the whole room, before the entire group can proceed to the days events. So, if some goof decides to run out in the night and see what he can get away with he really angers his room mates who don't want to be searched. And he angers the whole group who has to wait. The system seems to work fine. I am grateful my ds has had opportunities to go to events like this. I would feel I was holding him back for my own fears of what if when what if is such a minute percent of the possibilities. I know my reasoning doesn't fit other families, but it works for us.

Edited August 15, 2011 by betty

[blessed3x]

I'm with you on this. :001_smile:

 

 

:iagree:

[LibraryLover]

I think it takes some confidence in the adults running these events when you consider whether or not your child can participate.

 

All of my children have attended summer camp, music programs etc., for instance. I did have a basic trust in the history of these institutions, their plan for dealing with various issues (an ill child, a child who was homesick etc), the philosophy, the plan for supervision etc. If I didn't, I couldn't do it.

 

The maturity of my child and whether they would feel comfrotable asking for help if they had a concern is also a critical factor for me.

 

No program is an automatic 'done deal' for me.

[Parker Martin]

The adults were supposed to share beds with strangers. :001_huh: That mental image has me laughing out loud. Maximum weirdosity.

[Sparkle]

The adults were supposed to share beds with strangers. :001_huh: That mental image has me laughing out loud. Maximum weirdosity.

 

I know. What?? I cannot imagine sharing my bed with a stranger. Or even most people I know well.

[Guest submarines]

Are you sure adults were supposed to share the bed? This just can't be right! Did you doublecheck this, or just assumed there are always 2 beds per room? I would think there would be 4 beds per room, or maybe a pull-out and a roll-in cot.

 

As for the teenagers sharing rooms with other competitors, I think this is not too bad of an experience. I'm introverted, so I wouldn't be thrilled about sharing a room, but I wouldn't be horrified either. And at 14-18, I could certainly deal with the discomfort. I wouldn't do it for fun, but I would certainly tolerate the conditions for something that I worked hard for. They all share the same interests, after all. Isn't this what's done at summer camps? Kids sharing rooms with 'strangers'?

 

If I can't trust my 14 year old to act responsibly in the above situation, then I'd be reconsidering my parenting. I don't think I should guard my child from any situation where others might behave somewhat less than perfectly. Especially it seems like a group of science oriented, hard working kids. I can't imagine anything happening that I would need to guard a child from so rigidly, as not to allow to participate in the competition.

 

On the other hand, I would not sleep in the same bed with a stranger, that's for sure. Though I seriously doubt that was the arrangement.

 

Obviously each family makes such decisions on their level of comfort. But you asked whether you are too paranoid, and well, I think you are. :leaving:

[Lawana]

I cannot imagine sharing my bed with a stranger. Or even most people I know well.

I would not even comfortably share a bed with my mother.

 

Faith, I'm totally with you on your decision. I could not agree to the required conditions. I don't get why you and your dh can't opt to pay for a room for yourselves, at the very least.

 

I also don't get why an adult chaperone sharing a room with same-sexed teens is icky. It seems much more sensible than not having an adult present.

[ZooRho]

Our son has been in similar situations with sports. He has been on a state team. He sort of knew the other boys from competitions but not from the same city. There were 4 boys to a room, yeah some of the kids choose to sleep on the floor.

 

I guess you all are glad you didn't live way back when when there were multiple people in the same bed at the inn :)

[FaithManor]

Our son has been in similar situations with sports. He has been on a state team. He sort of knew the other boys from competitions but not from the same city. There were 4 boys to a room, yeah some of the kids choose to sleep on the floor.

 

I guess you all are glad you didn't live way back when when there were multiple people in the same bed at the inn :)

 

 

Yep, I'm very glad!:lol:

 

I also know that way back in the day, if you beat the other person for being "too friendly" nobody was going to call it assault either! :D

 

The single biggest issue is that this is a 4-H team and 4-H even has rules about sleeping arrangements. At 4-H camp, all kids under 18 have a camp counselor over 20 years of age, full background check, character references, interviews, etc. in each cabin or room. So, this is really a violation of our own 4-H conduct code. When the kids go to 4-H exploration days, their chaperones stay with them in the dorms. We received confirmation, late this afternoon (I was already out clothing shopping for two boys - ugh), that 4-H council could not support the trip since kids under 18 must be directly chaperoned and that includes the sleeping arrangements. So, it's just off the table completely.

 

That's okay. There are plenty of science competitions out there and like I said, we've got our competition rocketry team ready to begin the 2011/2012 challenge. That one is a no brainer because the organizers leave it up to the chaperones and sponsoring organizations to make the travel and sleeping arrangements.

 

Faith

[Live2Ride]

I probably wouldn't have done it either...I'm ok with strangers, but my dh and dd would not be.

[LibraryLover]

The whole hostel thing is going to be an issue.

 

Oh, the days! lol

 

I remember the tenants in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn sharing a hall bathroom!

 

I am so spoiled. Imagine going into a bathroom to wash after the Nolan drunkard had been in there!

 

Truly, the most difficult part of my 3 month backpacking trip through Europe were those shared bathrooms. lol ;)

 

However, the best shower (communal-- some with bathing suits, some naked) I have ever taken, and I say this with all honesty, was on a crappy little ferry going from Paros to Mykonos, Greece. I don't know for sure whether I took the most amazing shower in disgusting--yet hot-- Aegean water or not. I just remember the water pressure being beyond glorious. That shower... it is, so far, one of my best life memories. :)

Edited August 16, 2011 by LibraryLover

[ZooRho]

Yep, I'm very glad!:lol:

 

I also know that way back in the day, if you beat the other person for being "too friendly" nobody was going to call it assault either! :D

 

The single biggest issue is that this is a 4-H team and 4-H even has rules about sleeping arrangements. At 4-H camp, all kids under 18 have a camp counselor over 20 years of age, full background check, character references, interviews, etc. in each cabin or room. So, this is really a violation of our own 4-H conduct code. When the kids go to 4-H exploration days, their chaperones stay with them in the dorms. We received confirmation, late this afternoon (I was already out clothing shopping for two boys - ugh), that 4-H council could not support the trip since kids under 18 must be directly chaperoned and that includes the sleeping arrangements. So, it's just off the table completely.

Well for the thing I'm talking about, their were some chaparones in the same room with thier kids and then 2 other kids but most chaparones were in seperate rooms from the kids and there were up to 4 kids in a room. this was for kids from 9-18. They were grouped by age so 9-10, 11-12 etc and boys and girls.

 

The chaparones did have back ground checks