s/o weight change since marriage - "obligation" to maintain appearance

[Jean in Newcastle]

A lot of what is seen as "emotion" or "sensitivity" on this issue is actually frustration. I think there are two things going on:

 

1. We live in a culture (and it's not just the US in most industrialized societies) where the food supply is just not as healthy. Much of it is because of additives like HFCS and preservatives and fillers. As people have mentioned many times on this board, foods with these items are cheaper and more convenient so they tend to bought by those with a lower income or a busier schedule. It has affected how we can lose weight significantly.

 

2. Doctors do not understand food or weight loss. I've posted numerous times about my frustration with weight loss. I'm in my 52nd week of exercising 5 days (and often 6 days) a week, measuring my food and logging it on sparkspeople where the calories /carbs/ fat etc. are counted, and having two diet buddies for support. I gained weight. I went to 3 nutritionists/dieticians - they loved my diet! I went to my doctor - he shrugged his shoulders and couldn't help me. It took an 'act of God' (a terrible reaction to a treatment I had) to show me that I had trouble with insulin resistance. Now I'm eating the same foods but with a different distribution throughout the day (which keeps my bloodsugar low) and am exercising the same. I'm losing weight. (And I'm not saying that I found the golden ticket to weight loss. For someone else it could be a thyroid problem, or any number of other problems.)

 

There is also anger because I am an intelligent, hardworking, loving woman who feels like I'm often labeled by society (including comments on this board on occasion) as stupid, slovenly, lazy, and unloving to my husband to "let myself" get in this situation to begin with. Fortunately I did not marry a man who buys into that.

[HRAAB]

So last night my dh and I were getting ready to go to Shakespeare (saw Taming of the Shrew:001_smile::001_smile:), and as we were leaving I asked him if my appearance pleased him (because of this thread). No make-up, clean hair pulled back with a clip, clean capris and blouse, and sandals. Took all of 10 minutes on my part. He gave me on of his blank looks like 'what the heck are you talking about'. I pushed a little and he said when he looked at me he saw someone with a heart of gold that he wanted to spend his life with, and if I asked him tomorrow what I was wearing, he wouldn't remember because it wasn't important to him. I think it was the best compliment a wife could get.

[Ginevra]

Quill, my husband has been told he's obese (due to the BMI). He's not. <snip>

 

He's just one example of a big person that can't lose weight even with diet and exercise. He got out of the black mold infested place. He's excercising, eating healthier, sleeping better, etc. He's still not losing weight.

 

I'm not taking you as bashing. But I think that people really do assume that works for one always works for others or for the majority. I don't believe that.

 

Do you think that is true for many obese westerners? Do you think it is true for most? That they cannot lose weight?

 

I'm really trying to understand. It does not add up logically for me. Form follows function in physical structures. There's a big biking club near my home and, on weekends, I often see the bikers riding around. Their legs look like iron cables! Form follows function. They've "told" their legs to anticipate work and the muscles respond by building strong quadriceps. Their fitness levels may very, but they appear fit almost without exception.

 

I recently read a statistic that the average American walks 1.6 miles per week, adding up all the walking they do total in a week. I think that says a lot about how little exercise most people get on average.

 

 

A lot of what is seen as "emotion" or "sensitivity" on this issue is actually frustration. I think there are two things going on:

 

1. We live in a culture (and it's not just the US in most industrialized societies) where the food supply is just not as healthy. Much of it is because of additives like HFCS and preservatives and fillers. As people have mentioned many times on this board, foods with these items are cheaper and more convenient so they tend to bought by those with a lower income or a busier schedule. It has affected how we can lose weight significantly.

 

2. Doctors do not understand food or weight loss. I've posted numerous times about my frustration with weight loss. I'm in my 52nd week of exercising 5 days (and often 6 days) a week, measuring my food and logging it on sparkspeople where the calories /carbs/ fat etc. are counted, and having two diet buddies for support. I gained weight. I went to 3 nutritionists/dieticians - they loved my diet! I went to my doctor - he shrugged his shoulders and couldn't help me. It took an 'act of God' (a terrible reaction to a treatment I had) to show me that I had trouble with insulin resistance. Now I'm eating the same foods but with a different distribution throughout the day (which keeps my bloodsugar low) and am exercising the same. I'm losing weight. (And I'm not saying that I found the golden ticket to weight loss. For someone else it could be a thyroid problem, or any number of other problems.)

 

There is also anger because I am an intelligent, hardworking, loving woman who feels like I'm often labeled by society (including comments on this board on occasion) as stupid, slovenly, lazy, and unloving to my husband to "let myself" get in this situation to begin with. Fortunately I did not marry a man who buys into that.

 

I hope I am not doing that. :grouphug: I have read about your health struggles. I hope you have found your personal "golden ticket".

 

I agree about quality foods being more expensive.

[mommaduck]

Quill, yes, I do think it's true for MANY (not all...not sure statistically, but yes, for many). I've known many overweight and obese people. Most of them are active people that really don't eat unhealthy. They are just genetically BIG. Some of them feel terribly self conscious about it. They know they are big and they know how people look at them and what some people think of them. Most of them dress nice. They get tired of hearing the phrases "big boned" and "you have a pretty face" (even though, oftentimes, both are true). I'm not sure if you know what a "midwest farmwoman" stereotype is, but they exist. Active, healthy, but always considered overweight or look it. Others have had underlying issues that are rarely diagnosed. Many times, the doctors will just say, "oh, you're depressed" or "you just need a healthier diet and excercise"....uhm, thanks for the help, doc, if I wasn't depressed before, I will be sure to be now. I really think that more people in the US suffer from more things than is recognised or diagnosed. Many times, those things aren't looked for until they are much, much older. Those that I know have been able to lose weight, it's been through a lot of work (where they would have to make diet and constant exercise their life...and no one can do that) and they've always gained it back, sometimes worse than before. I know one kid that was told he was underweight according to the BMI. He's CHUBBY, bigger than other kids his age, and eats only hot dogs and chicken nuggets...how is he underweight?

 

I think our medical system doesn't really look as far as they should and have things backwards much of the time.

Edited August 12, 2011 by mommaduck

[myfunnybunch]

Please do not excerpt only one little bit of what I said and ignore the rest.

 

I didn't ignore the rest. I stand by my response. Your comparison was not only fitness vs. obesity. That I would have been totally on board with. I think we agree almost 100% about cultural reasons for obesity in many people, and would like to see a sweeping change.

 

But you did say straight out: "To be fit is to be thin." Your entire post was about obesity versus being thin with no middle ground or allowance made for different body types. It's polarizing thinking. That philopsophy ignores the millions of women who are in the middle: Moderate weight, moderate fitness, and in good health. Thin vs. overweight/obese, with no room in the middle, is what leads many women to give up instead of striving for a healthy moderate weight.

 

Cat

[Audrey]

I can see your friend's point, but I don't agree with it necessarily. I think it's fine to want to look nice for your partner, but I'm not convinced it should be an obligation. Drastic changes can happen without being a deal-breaker.

[Crimson Wife]

If I had plenty of money I might do a little something in the area of eye lift...I have, like my mother and grandmother, the tendency of my top eyelid to sag. I certainly won't be going into debt for something like that. But sounds like in your circle money isn't a problem. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yeah, we're in the land of dot-com success stories and people who collect automobiles as hobbies :rolleyes: It's actually one of the reasons why we homeschool, because I don't care for the consumerist attitude so prevalent here. My DD is not quite 9 and feels deprived because she doesn't have an iPhone like so many of the kids she knows :rolleyes: I told her that she can get one when she can afford to pay for it herself!

[Hoggirl]

Yeah, we're in the land of dot-com success stories and people who collect automobiles as hobbies :rolleyes: It's actually one of the reasons why we homeschool, because I don't care for the consumerist attitude so prevalent here. My DD is not quite 9 and feels deprived because she doesn't have an iPhone like so many of the kids she knows :rolleyes: I told her that she can get one when she can afford to pay for it herself!

 

You go, girl.

[ChiMomNP]

Ironically, just yesterday there was a discussion on my town mothers' club about recommendations for a plastic surgeon for b00k lift/augmentation. So yes, in my social circle, I do think the expectation is for surgical "enhancement" if the couple can afford it.

 

I'm probably not done having kids yet, so there's no point in even considering having a "mommy makeover" (yes, that's what it's called in my social circle) for a while.

 

I'm turning 40 in January and I'm considering a "Mommy-Makeover" when I finish my doctorate in 2013. I never thought I would consider it but in our circle pretty much everyone does it. When we lived in Newport Beach, CA, I didn't know one woman with a real set of b00ks. Plastic surgery is just the norm. It has been a little better here in Chicago but we are moving to Scottsdale, AZ and I expect to feel the "heat" to look a certain way and present a certain image again. It is just the way it is.

[Ginevra]

I didn't ignore the rest. I stand by my response. Your comparison was not only fitness vs. obesity. That I would have been totally on board with. I think we agree almost 100% about cultural reasons for obesity in many people, and would like to see a sweeping change.

 

But you did say straight out: "To be fit is to be thin." Your entire post was about obesity versus being thin with no middle ground or allowance made for different body types. It's polarizing thinking. That philopsophy ignores the millions of women who are in the middle: Moderate weight, moderate fitness, and in good health. Thin vs. overweight/obese, with no room in the middle, is what leads many women to give up instead of striving for a healthy moderate weight.

 

Cat

 

Well, to me, "Thin" mean a small percentage of body fat, not having a tiny frame. A moderate weight person with relatively little body fat is thin to me. Overweight/obese is not optimal fitness and the more obese, the more I believe that is true. I do think to be fit is to be thin. I don't think you can be optimally fit and have a large percentage of body fat. I do think you can be fit and have a larger frame, but that is not the same as being fat. I also do not think the reverse is true: "To be thin is to be fit." You can have a low percentage of body fat and not be fit at all.

 

We may differ on what we think "thin" means.

[Wheres Toto]

Quill, yes, I do think it's true for MANY (not all...not sure statistically, but yes, for many). I've known many overweight and obese people. Most of them are active people that really don't eat unhealthy. They are just genetically BIG. Some of them feel terribly self conscious about it. They know they are big and they know how people look at them and what some people think of them. Most of them dress nice. They get tired of hearing the phrases "big boned" and "you have a pretty face" (even though, oftentimes, both are true). I'm not sure if you know what a "midwest farmwoman" stereotype is, but they exist. Active, healthy, but always considered overweight or look it. Others have had underlying issues that are rarely diagnosed. Many times, the doctors will just say, "oh, you're depressed" or "you just need a healthier diet and excercise"....uhm, thanks for the help, doc, if I wasn't depressed before, I will be sure to be now. I really think that more people in the US suffer from more things than is recognised or diagnosed. Many times, those things aren't looked for until they are much, much older. Those that I know have been able to lose weight, it's been through a lot of work (where they would have to make diet and constant exercise their life...and no one can do that) and they've always gained it back, sometimes worse than before. I know one kid that was told he was underweight according to the BMI. He's CHUBBY, bigger than other kids his age, and eats only hot dogs and chicken nuggets...how is he underweight?

 

I think our medical system doesn't really look as far as they should and have things backwards much of the time.

 

I agree with a lot of this. I was about 50 pounds overweight after my oldest was born. I tried to lose the weight and no matter what I did - exercising, eating right, etc. it never budged by more than 5 pounds either way. I finally did lose 40 of the pounds. I worked full time doing stock work for Sam's Club starting at 3 am and was going to school full time. So 8 hours a day of straight physical labor, another 6 spent in a classroom, I was eating light but healthy meals because I had to to keep going. And it took me 9 months to lose the 40 pounds. There's no way I can duplicate that level of activity and that eating pattern in normal circumstances. And, it seriously was not healthy to do long-term.

 

DH and I have done some serious diets. Even when I stay strict to the diet and exercise every day (which is not easy with two little kids who are always here) - my weight will not budge more than 5 pounds either way. I can do no exercise and eat whatever I want and my weight will still be within this 5 pounds. Although I am technically obese I have low blood pressure, healthy cholesterol levels. I went to the doctor to get my thyroid checked, hormone levels, everything we could think of and nothing came up obvious. But who knows???

[twoforjoy]

How? I don't mean to argue with you; you're my favorite cyber-fowl. But I don't understand the theory that large numbers of obese westerners are medically NOT able to become fit.

 

They aren't able to become permanently thin. That is entirely different from becoming fit.

 

Are you thinking of obesity in medical terms, as anybody with a BMI of 30 or higher? People like this woman? Or this one? This one? This one if she gains half a pound?

 

That's what most obese people look like. Most obese people have a BMI of 35 or lower. I think the media confuses a lot of people by always using pictures of 400+ pound people when they are talking about obesity, but those people are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of obese people. Most obese people walk around looking pretty darn normal. And if you think the woman in those pictures can't possibly be fit or healthy, then I think you've bought some of the "thin = healthy" nonsense we've been fed to support the multi-billion dollar diet industry.

 

I hate to use an example of abuse, but how many fat bodies were stacked in piles in Nazi concentration camps?

 

Please, please, please tell me you aren't using emaciated people in concentration camps to illustrate "fitness." Because if our concern is really health and not just body size, then the whole "there's no fat people in concentration camps" argument would never, ever be used. You know what else you don't find in concentration camps? Healthy people.

 

How often do people go into a situation where their food and activity level is controlled (think of Boot Camp), yet they stubbornly remain fat? How many anorexic people mysteriously remain fat while they starve themselves?

 

There are many people who remain fat despite high levels of physical activity. No, people don't remain fat in the face of prolonged starvation. They also don't remain healthy. But, prolonged starvation is NOT a viable option for health or long-term weight maintenance. Once an even somewhat-adequate amount of calories are consumed, we see people's bodies fall into a bell-curved shaped distribution of body weights.

 

So, were there fat people in concentration camps? No. But, once those people lucky enough to survive were released, and began eating normally again, their bodies quickly returned to a wide variety of shapes. Human beings fed an adequate number of calories will be different sizes. That's just how it works. And people's bodies seem to have pretty stubborn "set points" that they will fall into unless they are subjected to extreme starvation or extreme overeating.

 

But, we all know people who CANNOT gain weight no matter what they do, right? We admit that there are people who eat a ton, don't exercise, yet stay thin. Now, certainly if they were to be in a setting where they were forcefed food all day, they'd gain weight. But, once they returned to even somewhat normal eating, they'd lose weight. I don't know why it's so easy for people to accept that, but not to be able to accept that there are many people who, aside from extreme starvation, cannot lose weight past a certain point.

 

Plus, there are plenty of overweight/obese people who are malnourished from eating disorders and it goes unnoticed because they aren't emaciated. I had a good friend who was bulimic for years. She was not getting adequate nutrition. But it wasn't until she entirely stopped eating that she really got thin, and that anybody noticed she was sick. It's actually a very serious problem that bulimia and even anorexia in people who aren't very thin often gets ignored.

 

I came very close to having an eating disorder when I was 14. I was exercising so much and eating so little that I started fainting and having heart palpitations. I went to a cardiologist who noted that I was "well-nourished" without asking me anything about my eating habits. What did he base that assessment on? My weight (which was at the higher end of the normal range, despite my habits) and my appearance (I'm a curvy person who carries most of my body fat in my boobs, thighs, and butt). I probably did look very healthy and well-nourished, but for several months I'd been living on Wheat Thins, orange slices, diet soda, and coffee, while exercising 2-3 hours a day. I was fortunate enough to be scared out of those habits before I wasn't able to make changes, but the fact that my very unhealthy habits were ignored because I looked "healthy" and "well-nourished" says something.

Edited August 12, 2011 by twoforjoy

[8circles]

They aren't able to become permanently thin. That is entirely different from becoming fit.

 

Are you thinking of obesity in medical terms, as anybody with a BMI of 30 or higher? People like this woman? Or this one? This one? This one if she gains half a pound?

 

That's what most obese people look like. Most obese people have a BMI of 35 or lower. I think the media confuses a lot of people by always using pictures of 400+ pound people when they are talking about obesity, but those people are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of obese people. Most obese people walk around looking pretty darn normal. And if you think the woman in those pictures can't possibly be fit or healthy, then I think you've bought some of the "thin = healthy" nonsense we've been fed to support the multi-billion dollar diet industry.

 

 

 

Please, please, please tell me you aren't using emaciated people in concentration camps to illustrate "fitness." Because if our concern is really health and not just body size, then the whole "there's no fat people in concentration camps" argument would never, ever be used. You know what else you don't find in concentration camps? Healthy people.

 

 

 

There are many people who remain fat despite high levels of physical activity. No, people don't remain fat in the face of prolonged starvation. They also don't remain healthy. But, prolonged starvation is NOT a viable option for health or long-term weight maintenance. Once an even somewhat-adequate amount of calories are consumed, we see people's bodies fall into a bell-curved shaped distribution of body weights.

 

So, were there fat people in concentration camps? No. But, once those people lucky enough to survive were released, and began eating normally again, their bodies quickly returned to a wide variety of shapes. Human beings fed an adequate number of calories will be different sizes. That's just how it works. And people's bodies seem to have pretty stubborn "set points" that they will fall into unless they are subjected to extreme starvation or extreme overeating.

 

But, we all know people who CANNOT gain weight no matter what they do, right? We admit that there are people who eat a ton, don't exercise, yet stay thin. Now, certainly if they were to be in a setting where they were forcefed food all day, they'd gain weight. But, once they returned to even somewhat normal eating, they'd lose weight. I don't know why it's so easy for people to accept that, but not to be able to accept that there are many people who, aside from extreme starvation, cannot lose weight past a certain point.

 

Plus, there are plenty of overweight/obese people who are malnourished from eating disorders and it goes unnoticed because they aren't emaciated. I had a good friend who was bulimic for years. She was not getting adequate nutrition. But it wasn't until she entirely stopped eating that she really got thin, and that anybody noticed she was sick. It's actually a very serious problem that bulimia and even anorexia in people who aren't very thin often gets ignored.

 

I came very close to having an eating disorder when I was 14. I was exercising so much and eating so little that I started fainting and having heart palpitations. I went to a cardiologist who noted that I was "well-nourished" without asking me anything about my eating habits. What did he base that assessment on? My weight (which was at the higher end of the normal range, despite my habits) and my appearance (I'm a curvy person who carries most of my body fat in my boobs, thighs, and butt). I probably did look very healthy and well-nourished, but for several months I'd been living on Wheat Thins, orange slices, diet soda, and coffee, while exercising 2-3 hours a day. I was fortunate enough to be scared out of those habits before I wasn't able to make changes, but the fact that my very unhealthy habits were ignored because I looked "healthy" and "well-nourished" says something.

 

I'm so glad that you posted all of this. I've been trying to formulate a response but couldn't do so without sounding rude.

[WishboneDawn]

She feels like that appearance is what the person married, that they were counting on that appearance to basically continue, etc. and feels like we should all work to keep that appearance up.

 

??

 

My husband and I did not get married with the expectation that our appearance at that time would be a constant. We'd watched our parents in their marriage, We both certainly know that people's physical appearance changes. There were, as I would hope with most marriages, reasons beside appearance.

 

Honestly, anyone who gets married to another person with the expectation that ANY part of them will remain constant and unchanging is likely headed for divorce.

[Ginevra]

They aren't able to become permanently thin. That is entirely different from becoming fit.

 

Are you thinking of obesity in medical terms, as anybody with a BMI of 30 or higher? People like this woman? Or this one? This one? This one if she gains half a pound?

 

That's what most obese people look like. Most obese people have a BMI of 35 or lower. I think the media confuses a lot of people by always using pictures of 400+ pound people when they are talking about obesity, but those people are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of obese people. Most obese people walk around looking pretty darn normal. And if you think the woman in those pictures can't possibly be fit or healthy, then I think you've bought some of the "thin = healthy" nonsense we've been fed to support the multi-billion dollar diet industry.

 

 

 

Please, please, please tell me you aren't using emaciated people in concentration camps to illustrate "fitness." Because if our concern is really health and not just body size, then the whole "there's no fat people in concentration camps" argument would never, ever be used. You know what else you don't find in concentration camps? Healthy people.

 

 

 

There are many people who remain fat despite high levels of physical activity. No, people don't remain fat in the face of prolonged starvation. They also don't remain healthy. But, prolonged starvation is NOT a viable option for health or long-term weight maintenance. Once an even somewhat-adequate amount of calories are consumed, we see people's bodies fall into a bell-curved shaped distribution of body weights.

 

So, were there fat people in concentration camps? No. But, once those people lucky enough to survive were released, and began eating normally again, their bodies quickly returned to a wide variety of shapes. Human beings fed an adequate number of calories will be different sizes. That's just how it works. And people's bodies seem to have pretty stubborn "set points" that they will fall into unless they are subjected to extreme starvation or extreme overeating.

 

But, we all know people who CANNOT gain weight no matter what they do, right? We admit that there are people who eat a ton, don't exercise, yet stay thin. Now, certainly if they were to be in a setting where they were forcefed food all day, they'd gain weight. But, once they returned to even somewhat normal eating, they'd lose weight. I don't know why it's so easy for people to accept that, but not to be able to accept that there are many people who, aside from extreme starvation, cannot lose weight past a certain point.

 

Plus, there are plenty of overweight/obese people who are malnourished from eating disorders and it goes unnoticed because they aren't emaciated. I had a good friend who was bulimic for years. She was not getting adequate nutrition. But it wasn't until she entirely stopped eating that she really got thin, and that anybody noticed she was sick. It's actually a very serious problem that bulimia and even anorexia in people who aren't very thin often gets ignored.

 

I came very close to having an eating disorder when I was 14. I was exercising so much and eating so little that I started fainting and having heart palpitations. I went to a cardiologist who noted that I was "well-nourished" without asking me anything about my eating habits. What did he base that assessment on? My weight (which was at the higher end of the normal range, despite my habits) and my appearance (I'm a curvy person who carries most of my body fat in my boobs, thighs, and butt). I probably did look very healthy and well-nourished, but for several months I'd been living on Wheat Thins, orange slices, diet soda, and coffee, while exercising 2-3 hours a day. I was fortunate enough to be scared out of those habits before I wasn't able to make changes, but the fact that my very unhealthy habits were ignored because I looked "healthy" and "well-nourished" says something.

 

I was using the term obesity in the medical sense. And no, I don't think the women in the photos appear unhealthy. They look normal to me. But I don't agree that people who are unarguably obese are in the minority, because if I look around at any public place, I am met with very apparent obesity quite continuously. People with stomach rolls hanging down to their thighs, people waddling by with their gargantuan legs such that they can barely walk. It's not remotely rare where I live. Can anyone argue that that is some healthy version of being large-framed? Not to me.

 

And to the bold - I think it's a load of bunk. The people I've known who claimed to be like that did not stay that way much past their teens. Without muscle mass, the metabolism slows and when that happens, those "eat like a horse and not gain an ounce" people do get fatter. My sister was one of them.

 

With the concentration camps and anorexics - I thought I was completely clear that I wasn't suggesting food deprivation was healthy. I was noting a physiological fact - less food = declining weight. If there were such a thing as widespread inability to lose weight by eating less food, then there would be fat starving people, moderatly large starving people, etc.

 

I think a lot of westerners don't understand how small food portions actually should be. Also, a lot of Americans drink colossal amounts of calories without realizing the tremendous contribution that makes to the energy they consume.

 

I think a lot of American women do not understand the contribution to weigh loss that weight-bearing exercise brings. Weight-training is incredibly efficient for time investment with visible results. But many women never even think of the potential of weight-training because they think that's for men or those "she-male" weird super-lifting women. As muscle proportion overtakes fat proportion, metabolism increases, giving women the "burn while you sleep" that so many of us desperately need.

 

About BMI index: I don't know if it's incorrect, skewed or what, but here's what I do know: I have heard my entire life people lamenting that they cannot lose 10, 20, 30 or 50 pounds. I've heard it a zillion times. It is always coming from the mouth of someone who, in my estimation, could stand to lose the weight they are unhappy about. Once, I had the ironic, poetic experience of having lunch with a woman who was lamenting 30 lbs and claiming she does NOT understand what she has to do to get rid of it; she's tried everything! And then, as if to punctuate her lament, she chowed into her gigantic steak and cheese sub sandwich! :confused: I admit to being tempted to say, "Well you could start with wrapping that mess of a sandwich back up in the plastic..."

 

If someone is, as in the photos you included, "obese" by medical definition, but they are perfectly happy with their shape and size, fine! I applaud them. Nothing needs to change. But I don't know a lot of people for whom that is so. Most people who are obese agree, they want to change it and don't know how. Maybe their doctors are failing them, maybe they haven't stumbled on the help they need - I don't know. I just feel that spreading the "stuck with the fat, can't lose it" model is a complete detriment!

[WishboneDawn]

nm

[WishboneDawn]

I hate how appearance threads can't seem to remain separate from weight discussions. I hate how we can't seem to keep the issue of pride in appearance separate from weight. I resent how there can't be a thread on fitness, eating, apparance, etc. without there being a big debate on how weight is/isn't gained.

 

I'm fat. That just is. It may change, it may not. Honestly, I don't think it's anybody's business why I'm fat. It's none of anybody's business why I'm fat and whether it was something in or out of my control. I've got nothing to justify about being fat.

 

I can still take pride in my appearance and look d#$% good for my husband. He can still be very attracted to me. I can still go on long hikes with my kids. I can still feel very good about how I look and feel. And all that while I'm fat.

 

If we could actually take those facts for granted in these discussions we'd get farther.

 

For the record, I think my husband and I DO have an obligation to primp and dress up every once in awhile for each other. I do not think we're obligated to remain physically unchanged. I think the two are separate issues.

[YLVD]

But if you are willing to do those things to please him, why wouldn't you extend that to your physical appearance as well? :confused:

 

I don't really see the difference.

 

:iagree:

[Ginevra]

I'm sorry I've offended people on the subject of weight. I'm going to add that to my list of Threads I NEVER Get Involved In from now on. It seemed like a fair discussion, since weight was part of the original premise Hoggirl started with.

 

I apologize again. I'm finished with discussing weight gain/loss/obesity/thinness/BMI or whatever from now until forever.

[WishboneDawn]

I'm sorry I've offended people on the subject of weight. I'm going to add that to my list of Threads I NEVER Get Involved In from now on. It seemed like a fair discussion, since weight was part of the original premise Hoggirl started with.

 

I apologize again. I'm finished with discussing weight gain/loss/obesity/thinness/BMI or whatever from now until forever.

 

Just in case, my post wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the whole topic in general and all those, me included, that get dragged into the weight thing and talks on who or what is to blame.

[Joker]

And to the bold - I think it's a load of bunk. The people I've known who claimed to be like that did not stay that way much past their teens. Without muscle mass, the metabolism slows and when that happens, those "eat like a horse and not gain an ounce" people do get fatter. My sister was one of them.

 

 

I have to point out that it's not bunk. My dh and fil are two who cannot gain weight. My dh is 37 and my fil is 75. They're both tall and skinny. My dh has tried to gain weight because he's such a twig but he can't. He can eat whatever and whenever he wants and it doesn't matter. His dad is the exact same way.

[Ginevra]

Just in case, my post wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the whole topic in general and all those, me included, that get dragged into the weight thing and talks on who or what is to blame.

 

Thanks for your reassurance. You were one person, but there are others on this board whom I greatly value as board-buddies and I don't want to be hurtful; it's the furthest thing from what I want to be.

 

So - sorry to anyone I've offended or hurt. I'm finished proselytizing about weight forever.

[WishboneDawn]

Thanks for your reassurance. You were one person, but there are others on this board whom I greatly value as board-buddies and I don't want to be hurtful; it's the furthest thing from what I want to be.

 

So - sorry to anyone I've offended or hurt. I'm finished proselytizing about weight forever.

 

Okay...You're sorry doesn't apply to me then 'cause you haven't offended me. You'd have to do a LOT better to manage that. :D

[Scarlett]

Honestly, anyone who gets married to another person with the expectation that ANY part of them will remain constant and unchanging is likely headed for divorce.

 

I don't think this is what the OP said AT ALL. It was 'keeping oneself up to a reasonable degree and to the best of one's ability.'

[mommaduck]

They aren't able to become permanently thin. That is entirely different from becoming fit.

 

Are you thinking of obesity in medical terms, as anybody with a BMI of 30 or higher? People like this woman? Or this one? This one? This one if she gains half a pound?

 

That's what most obese people look like. Most obese people have a BMI of 35 or lower. I think the media confuses a lot of people by always using pictures of 400+ pound people when they are talking about obesity, but those people are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of obese people. Most obese people walk around looking pretty darn normal. And if you think the woman in those pictures can't possibly be fit or healthy, then I think you've bought some of the "thin = healthy" nonsense we've been fed to support the multi-billion dollar diet industry.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm so glad you posted those links! I'm 5'6" and 182lbs.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Plus, there are plenty of overweight/obese people who are malnourished from eating disorders and it goes unnoticed because they aren't emaciated. I had a good friend who was bulimic for years. She was not getting adequate nutrition. But it wasn't until she entirely stopped eating that she really got thin, and that anybody noticed she was sick. It's actually a very serious problem that bulimia and even anorexia in people who aren't very thin often gets ignored.

 

.

 

:iagree:

 

I am overweight and am malnourished. I have had severe vitamin deficiencies diagnosed and treated. (I eat lots of veggies etc. lest those who think they know it all about it label me as too stupid to eat a healthy diet.) I cannot go on a severe diet. I get very ill if I am not very careful in how I eat. I honestly hope that people who are so simplistic in their views on diet and weight never have a family member with these problems. The kind of pseudo medical advice that is being bandied about here can cause lasting damage.

[twoforjoy]

I was using the term obesity in the medical sense. And no, I don't think the women in the photos appear unhealthy. They look normal to me. But I don't agree that people who are unarguably obese are in the minority, because if I look around at any public place, I am met with very apparent obesity quite continuously. People with stomach rolls hanging down to their thighs, people waddling by with their gargantuan legs such that they can barely walk. It's not remotely rare where I live. Can anyone argue that that is some healthy version of being large-framed? Not to me.

 

Statistically, you're just wrong. Sorry, but you are. The average BMI in this country is something like 26.8. The average obese person, IIRC, has a BMI of 32 or 33.

 

The number of people, statistically, who weigh 300+ pounds is very small. If you are seeing them "everywhere," then it's probably confirmation bias.

 

With the concentration camps and anorexics - I thought I was completely clear that I wasn't suggesting food deprivation was healthy. I was noting a physiological fact - less food = declining weight. If there were such a thing as widespread inability to lose weight by eating less food, then there would be fat starving people, moderatly large starving people, etc.

 

But that's not true. Starvation will cause declining weight. It will also cause declining health. And, it's unsustainable as a long-term weight loss plan.

 

But, once we start talking about levels of food intake above the starvation level, we see people's weights begin to vary. Feed a group of people 500 calories a day for two years, and they'll all become very emaciated. (Feed a group of people 15,000 calories a day for two years, and they'd all become very fat.) Feed that same group of people 1200 calories a day for two years (or 3000 calories a day for two years), and their bodies will fall into a bell-curve shaped distribution. Once people are sufficiently nourished, we inevitably see body size diversity.

 

Numerous studies have been done looking at eating and exercise habits. None have found that fatter people consume more calories than thinner people, on average, or that they are less active. For a good number of people, unless they decrease their calorie intake to a starvation level, they will not move their weight out of the overweight or even obese range, at least over the long term. Their bodies compensate for changes in calorie intake or activity level in order to maintain a certain "set point." That's why most diets fail. It's not because people cheat or go off of them, but because most dieters, after about 1-2 years, begin to regain weight even if they maintain or even decrease their caloric intake. Their body begins to slow down various processes in order to maintain or get back to its preferred weight. Unless they drop down to starvation-level intake, regain happens.

[8circles]

I was using the term obesity in the medical sense.

 

I understand your basic point but I'm still confused here. Obesity in the medical sense means a BMI of over 30. From your description do you mean morbidly obese?

 

morbid obesity the condition of weighing two or more times the ideal weight; so called because it is associated with many serious and life-threatening disorders.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Morbidly+obese

Edited August 13, 2011 by momoflaw

[8circles]

Statistically, you're just wrong. Sorry, but you are. The average BMI in this country is something like 26.8. The average obese person, IIRC, has a BMI of 32 or 33.

 

The number of people, statistically, who weigh 300+ pounds is very small. If you are seeing them "everywhere," then it's probably confirmation bias.

 

 

 

But that's not true. Starvation will cause declining weight. It will also cause declining health. And, it's unsustainable as a long-term weight loss plan.

 

But, once we start talking about levels of food intake above the starvation level, we see people's weights begin to vary. Feed a group of people 500 calories a day for two years, and they'll all become very emaciated. (Feed a group of people 15,000 calories a day for two years, and they'd all become very fat.) Feed that same group of people 1200 calories a day for two years (or 3000 calories a day for two years), and their bodies will fall into a bell-curve shaped distribution. Once people are sufficiently nourished, we inevitably see body size diversity.

 

Numerous studies have been done looking at eating and exercise habits. None have found that fatter people consume more calories than thinner people, on average, or that they are less active. For a good number of people, unless they decrease their calorie intake to a starvation level, they will not move their weight out of the overweight or even obese range, at least over the long term. Their bodies compensate for changes in calorie intake or activity level in order to maintain a certain "set point." That's why most diets fail. It's not because people cheat or go off of them, but because most dieters, after about 1-2 years, begin to regain weight even if they maintain or even decrease their caloric intake. Their body begins to slow down various processes in order to maintain or get back to its preferred weight. Unless they drop down to starvation-level intake, regain happens.

 

Just because your posts are reminding me... I realize this is anectdotal.

 

Several of my thin friends only eat once a day. Every day.

 

One friend regularly makes comments about not being able to eat (at all) today because she had dessert yesterday.

 

Another friend only eats Diet Coke & M&M's.

 

My neighbor & friend is a size 2 & talks about wanting to loose the last few lbs of babyfat. She only eats fruit dipped in chocolate & doesn't touch vegetables.

 

None of that strikes me as very healthy, but they sure do look good.

 

There's got to be a happy medium - you've got to find balance. I think what needs to be acknowledged is that even if everyone finds balance, we won't all be 'thin'.