What age for Wind in the Willows?

[ladydusk]

My kids are good listeners to chapter books ... even books that are too old for them, but I was hoping for something a bit more on their level than our current and last reads: The Phantom Tollbooth and Bambi. We've loved both of these, but I was hoping for something a bit easier ...

[charlestonmom03]

We read it aloud this past year, the oldest loved it and the second tolerated it and the third didn't pay any attention at all and the fourth was napping. They actually liked it better on audio cd.

 

Have you read The Trumpet of the Swan? That is a favorite around here, as is Mr Popper's Penguins, The Cricket in Times Square, the Little House and the Chronicles of Narnia. Hands down our favorite book last year was Nesbit's The Railway Children.

[Leanna76]

We just finished it. My dd is 6 and going into First grade. She liked it a lot! I will warn you, though, it has the word "ass" in it several times. I put another more acceptable word in for it as I read. The rest of it was really cute. An abridged version may have been better for a 6 year old, but the unabridged was good for vocabulary.

[Laura Corin]

We just finished it. My dd is 6 and going into First grade. She liked it a lot! I will warn you, though, it has the word "ass" in it several times. I put another more acceptable word in for it as I read. The rest of it was really cute. An abridged version may have been better for a 6 year old, but the unabridged was good for vocabulary.

 

The word 'ass' in Britain means 'donkey'. The word for backside is 'arse'.

 

Laura

[boscopup]

We tried the audio version earlier this year, and none of us were getting into it. We stopped after a few chapters (DH heard the "You stupid a--!" and didn't want to hear anymore :tongue_smilie:). I don't mind using the term a-- when it actually refers to a donkey, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't a donkey in that book. :lol:

 

We'll probably give it another try via MCT's lit in another year or two. DS might enjoy it more if he's reading it himself, and maybe some added notes would help ME enjoy it more. I've never read it myself. I just couldn't get interested in it as an audio book.

[Capt_Uhura]

We did it as a read aloud. My boys were 10yrs and 7yrs. The both LOVED it and were sad when it was over. I think we appreciated more after going MCT Island level. We discussed the descriptive paragraphs, the language, the many extended metaphors, all the simile's, alliteration, the rhythm of the sentences... My boys really enjoyed it. We're now doing the HObbit and they are loving that one as well.

[Violet Crown]

The word 'ass' in Britain means 'donkey'. The word for backside is 'arse'.

 

Laura

"Ass" for donkey was acceptable in the U.S. not so long ago. My Miller "Book House" version of The Faerie Queene has frequent sentences like "The Redcrosse Knight rode forth, and gentle Una followed, sitting on her snow-white ass." I do try to read it with a straight face, but it's a trial sometimes.

 

Regarding "Wind in the Willows": I'm planning on reading it this year with dd8. I tracked down a 1964 edition that Scribners published, with a fabulous study guide by M. Dillenbeck. Very good comprehension questions--"How do you account for Otter's liking the trip from the river to the homes of Badger? What type of person is represented by Otter?" "Where is the humor in the disagreement over the scraper and the door-mat?"--that go well beyond the usual "what happened in the story" questions more usual for the elementary age. The edition is American, so the vocabulary parts of the guide address common Britishisms as well as more unusual words and expressions.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Sharon in Austin

[Rosy]

We are reading Wind in the Willows currently, and it is definitely more challenging than Phantom Tollbooth. I would go with the E.B. White books, The Secret Garden, something by Roald Dahl, or something by Beverly Cleary.

[shinyhappypeople]

We are reading Wind in the Willows currently, and it is definitely more challenging than Phantom Tollbooth. I would go with the E.B. White books, The Secret Garden, something by Roald Dahl, or something by Beverly Cleary.

:iagree:

 

It has taken a few chapters but my girls are slooowly getting into it. The vocabulary is challenging. I think we'll do an easier book after this one to give them a break!

 

Prior to this we read Dr. Dolittle, which was loads of fun.

[HeidiKC]

I think your kids MIGHT like it, but would probably definitely appreciate it more in a few years...at which point they may no longer appreciate books like "The Trumpet of the Swan", "My Father's Dragon", "The House at Pooh Corner", "Dominic", "Mr. Popper's Penguin's", "The Story of Dr. Dolittle", etc. All of which seem better suited to their current ages. I often find myself wanting to read a great book that is a bit too old for my kids, and try to remind myself that in doing so we're missing a book that they might not like later when they are older. There are SO many great books for kids that age. I'd save "Wind in the Willows" for a few years when they are past liking books for kids ages 4-6.

 

Roald Dahl would be another great one for this age.

[EKS]

Age 8 for both of my kids. I read this wonderfully illustrated edition to the younger one and it was very well received.

[shinyhappypeople]

I think your kids MIGHT like it, but would probably definitely appreciate it more in a few years...at which point they may no longer appreciate books like "The Trumpet of the Swan", "My Father's Dragon", "The House at Pooh Corner", "Dominic", "Mr. Popper's Penguin's", "The Story of Dr. Dolittle", etc. All of which seem better suited to their current ages. I often find myself wanting to read a great book that is a bit too old for my kids, and try to remind myself that in doing so we're missing a book that they might not like later when they are older. There are SO many great books for kids that age. I'd save "Wind in the Willows" for a few years when they are past liking books for kids ages 4-6.

 

Roald Dahl would be another great one for this age.

 

:iagree: I wish we'd waited.

[Laura in STL]

We have a soft spot for Wind in the Willows here. We listened to it as an audio when dc were probably 5 and 7. It seems like we listen to it about once a year, while driving to all the places we go. This year we will read the text for the first time and use it for a literature study with the DVD guide from institute for literature. My dc are 9 and 11 now.

 

However, regarding the original post, I would suggest a different book for right now. At that age we enjoyed some of the Little House books: little House in the Big Woods, Little House on the Prairie, and Farmer boy especially. Also, Little Lord Fauntleroy, The Mouse and the Motorcycle books, and the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. All the E. B. White and Winnie the Pooh books are favorites here, too.

[Element]

I read The Wind in the Willows to both of my dc in June, and they loved it. My ds7 was instantly hooked, but my dd6 complained for the first two chapters that she didn't like it. I think, in the end, it was the illustrations that finally helped her fall in love with the story. We read the hardcover edition illustrated by Inga Moore.

 

The word "ass" definitely sneaked up on me and when I read it aloud, my kids just looked wide-eyed at each other and then at me. I just took the opportunity to say a few words about the meanings of some words changing over time and the different meanings of that particular word.

[nmoira]

The Wind and the Willows can be challenging to read aloud due to its lyrical rambling, so it's one I think is best to read ahead beforehand to help with flow and intonation. Please, please, please don't use an abridged version: this is perhaps the most beautiful English language children's book ever published, and it seems such a pity to diminish it in any way. (Watch too, as some otherwise "unabridged" editions omit the chapters "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" and "Wayfarers All.")

 

Here are two YouTube readings:

 

 

-- Divided by chapters, text on screen, I'm not partial to the reader

-- seems to be unabridged

 

 

-- shorter clips, not divided by chapters (this was before YouTube allowed longer vids), love the reader

-- unabridged

[nmoira]

 

The word "ass" definitely sneaked up on me and when I read it aloud, my kids just looked wide-eyed at each other and then at me. I just took the opportunity to say a few words about the meanings of some words changing over time and the different meanings of that particular word.

You can't read much classic British children's literature without coming across it. It's not something that bothers me.

[mo2]

""The Redcrosse Knight rode forth, and gentle Una followed, sitting on her snow-white ass."

 

 

Call me immature, but I would be giggling right along with the kids on that one!

 

I plan to read The Wind in the Willows to my 9yo this year.

[Beth in SW WA]

Dd read this last year at age 7/grade 2. We will re-read with our new MCT lit guide next year.

[Dustybug]

We read The Wind in the Willows about a year ago, my children are 5 and 3. We used an illustrated version, and they enjoyed it but I do think they would have appreciated it more later, so we may read it again in a few years. The term "ass" doesn't bother me depending on its usage. (Even the Bible uses the word), but if you are uncomfortable, it is definitely easily substituted.

[boscopup]

The term "ass" doesn't bother me depending on its usage. (Even the Bible uses the word), but if you are uncomfortable, it is definitely easily substituted.

 

I don't have a problem with the word when it's used to refer to a donkey, as it's used in the Bible (and also Aesop's Fables, which we read recently, though I cringed as I read "You stupid ass!" in the fable where the ass kept laying down in the water :lol:). It was not used to refer to a donkey in WitW though. It was used to insult someone. I'm uncomfortable with that usage, but we will still read the book, and just discuss the word when we come up to it. Actually, typing this up... Is its usage coming from the phrase in the Aesop's Fable? Having not read the book or read any analysis of the book, that thought just crossed my mind... If it isn't referring to that fable, what is the origin/meaning of the phrase at the time the book was written? :lurk5:

[Daisy]

We read it when our kids were between 5-7 years old. They loved it. It is one of their favorite books and they've since re-read it to themselves. We don't have a big deal with the word "ass" in old books, but as others mentions it does crop up in the book a few times. They call someone a "silly ass". My kids don't know the word to mean anything other than donkey so they figured they were getting called a silly donkey. I just reminded them that it isn't nice to call people animal names.

 

If your children liked Bambi and Phantom Tollbooth, they can probably handle Wind in the Willows. The writing is AMAZING.

[Daisy]

The Wind and the Willows can be challenging to read aloud due to its lyrical rambling, so it's one I think is best to read ahead beforehand to help with flow and intonation. Please, please, please don't use an abridged version: this is perhaps the most beautiful English language children's book ever published, and it seems such a pity to diminish it in any way.

 

 

 

:iagree: It really is one of our family's favorite books.

[Daisy]

Other younger suggestions for that age group...

 

The Secret of NIMH (has no magic unlike the movie).

The Cricket in Times Square

The Trumpet of the Swan

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

[ladydusk]

We are reading Wind in the Willows currently, and it is definitely more challenging than Phantom Tollbooth. I would go with the E.B. White books, The Secret Garden, something by Roald Dahl, or something by Beverly Cleary.

 

I think the biggest problem we're having with Phantom Tollbooth is the word play; they just don't have all the cliches of language to understand the jokes. Then, again, as a read aloud, not even my husband is catching all the word play. They're understanding the story just fine.

 

Thanks for the other suggestions!

[ladydusk]

The Wind and the Willows can be challenging to read aloud due to its lyrical rambling, so it's one I think is best to read ahead beforehand to help with flow and intonation. Please, please, please don't use an abridged version: this is perhaps the most beautiful English language children's book ever published, and it seems such a pity to diminish it in any way. (Watch too, as some otherwise "unabridged" editions omit the chapters "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" and "Wayfarers All.")

 

Here are two YouTube readings:

 

 

-- Divided by chapters, text on screen, I'm not partial to the reader

-- seems to be unabridged

 

 

-- shorter clips, not divided by chapters (this was before YouTube allowed longer vids), love the reader

-- unabridged

 

:iagree: It really is one of our family's favorite books.

 

Thanks for the advice, ladies. I don't usually pre-read, but perhaps I will this time.

[ladydusk]

Thanks, everyone. We're finishing Trumpet of the Swan during our lunchtime reading in the next week or so. (and enjoying it)

 

We've not read any Dahl, which could be a good suggestion, but we've read many (but not all) of the other books listed in your suggestions (thanks!)

 

For our after dinner reading, I do try to read something a little difficult for them because my husband and I discuss as we go and try to model for them how to engage with a book while reading ... so it ought to be something that appeals to everyone. We enjoyed Just So Stories and The Jungle Book (I and II).

 

For our lunchtime reading, I try to read very age appropriate (Mouse & Motorcycle, Stuart Little, and Trumpet of the Swan are our last 3 reads) I think we're going to do Winnie the Pooh again next so R-girl can love them.

 

At breakfast, we're trying to read literature set during ancients. We just finished Osborne's Tales from the Odyssey and started The Bronze Bow (which I'm finding quite difficult!)

 

Anyway, I see our library has The Cricket in Times Square, so maybe we'll do that next and save Wind in the Willows for a year or two. Thanks!

[Rai B.]

... If it isn't referring to that fable, what is the origin/meaning of the phrase at the time the book was written? :lurk5:

Dumb as a donkey. Donkeys are infamous for being stupid/stubborn. IIRC, the use of ass to mean rear in the US is fairly recent (in the last century).

[nmoira]

Dumb as a donkey. Donkeys are infamous for being stupid/stubborn. IIRC, the use of ass to mean rear in the US is fairly recent (in the last century).

 

And the Latin asinus means donkey/ass. We've already come across some contemporary Roman quotes with asinus meaning fool.

 

From Lewis and Short:

 

asinus, i, m.

 

I. an ass.

 

I. Lit., Cato, R. R. 10, 1; 11, 1; Varr. R. R. 2, 1, 14; 2, 6, 1 al.; Col. 6, 37, 8; 6, 7, 1 al.; Plin. 8, 43, 68, § 167 sqq. et saep.; Vulg. Gen. 12, 6; ib. Isa. 1, 3; ib. Luc. 13, 15; 14, 5 et persaepe.—Prov.: “qui asinum non potest, stratum caedit,†i. e. he, that cannot find the offender, avenges himself on the unoffending, Petr. 45, 8: “in tegulis, of an odd appearance,†id. 45, 63: ad lyram, of an awkward man, acc. to Varr. ap. Gell. 3, 16: “sepulturā asini sepelietur, of a contemptible and unworthy man,†Vulg. Jer. 22, 19.—

 

II. Trop., an ass, a dolt, simpleton, blockhead: “neque ego homines magis asinos umquam vidi,†Plaut. Ps. 1, 2, 4; Ter. Heaut. 5, 1, 4. —Hence, as a term of insult: “Quid tu autem huic, asine, auscultas?†Ter. Ad. 5, 8, 12; id. Eun. 3, 5, 50: “Quid nunc te, asine, litteras doceam? Non opus est verbis, sed fustibus,†Cic. Pis. 30.

[Stellalarella]

I had a really special time reading Wind in the Willows to my dd when she was 9, almost 10. We would sometimes reread sentences over and over and over again just because we enjoyed them so much. She was far enough along in her understanding of language that she could enjoy it along with me and I got to teach her things, too, as we read.

As for reading it aloud--it is a challenge.

So, I think I'm going to save the joy and work of reading it to the dc when they are old enough to savor it. The younger kids can rave over chocolate chip cookies. The older kids can better savor the truffle, I think.

[boscopup]

Dumb as a donkey. Donkeys are infamous for being stupid/stubborn. IIRC, the use of ass to mean rear in the US is fairly recent (in the last century).

 

Thank you. :) I wasn't thinking it was referring to someone's rear end, but wasn't sure of the use for that book. Makes sense.

 

My kids don't know the word as reference to a rear end, and they've heard Aesop's Fables and other fables that talked about donkeys. So they will probably have the correct understanding anyway. :)

[Capt_Uhura]

The Wind and the Willows can be challenging to read aloud due to its lyrical rambling, so it's one I think is best to read ahead beforehand to help with flow and intonation. Please, please, please don't use an abridged version: this is perhaps the most beautiful English language children's book ever published, and it seems such a pity to diminish it in any way. (Watch too, as some otherwise "unabridged" editions omit the chapters "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" and "Wayfarers All.")

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I was telling a friend about this beautiful passage in Wind in the Willows. She couldn't recall it. She has a beautifully illustrated version of it. It's large, same size as my illustrated version. I spent 30min trying to find that darn passage. It was MISSING! Gone! EVISCERATED! In very fine print, we found were the author stated it was an abridged version. I saw no reason to abridge it b/c the book was the same size as mine w/ similar numbers of pages. But all the beautiful language has been DUMBED down. Seriously, multi-syllable words were missing. Complex sentences has been changed. It was such a shame b/c the illustrations were beautiful. But the book wasn't even a shadow of the original. It just didn't sing....

[pahansen]

I tried, but I couldn't get into Wind in the Willows myself, so I never tried reading it aloud. :-)

 

My kids are the same age as yours, though. We just finished Charlotte's Web, and they liked it a lot. I did give a heads-up about Charlotte dying in the end a couple of chapters ahead because Thing 2 is very sensitive. I think I said in passing, "You know, spiders have very short lifespans."

 

One book that I never see in these lists is The 101 Dalmatians by Dodie Smith. It is absolutely charming! We're reading it now, and I had to finish it ahead of the kids, I was so engaged. The name of the de Vil estate is "Hell Hall", which may cause some objections, but I didn't have a problem with it because she's the embodiment of evil, after all! It also doesn't mince words with the idea of using the puppies as fur coats, but if your kids have seen the movie, they probably already know that. (Any wording that is too intense can be edited as you read, but obviously the puppy fur is integral to the plot.)

 

If you are only familiar with the Disney version of this book, you're in for a treat. (Did you know that Perdita isn't the real name of the mother dog?) I do wish I'd known that the story takes place around Christmas -- I'd have chosen to read it later in the year.

 

--Pamela

[boscopup]

I do wish I'd known that the story takes place around Christmas -- I'd have chosen to read it later in the year.

 

 

Thanks for this! 101 Dalmations is on DS's literature list, and I'll be reading it before he gets there, but knowing it's good to do it around Christmas helps me schedule it for a good time. Great info! I haven't read it yet, but will soon. I think we're doing Charlie and the Chocolate Factory next. I need to get reading so he can start next week!