Boy Scout camp and leaving early...........

[flopsymopsy]

Help me sort through this.........my ds(almost 11) is at a scout camp this week. This his first time away from home for any length of time. He was extremely excited about the camp and I do not expect that he would want to return home early. He is an independent child who thrives in the outdoors and hard work. However, he is HIGH energy and at times has struggled socially because of that.

Today I got an email regarding the family night tomorrow night. The parents are strongly being encouraged to NOT let our child know that we miss them at home, we are to say goodbye to them before the program so that they will not have the opportunity to ask to go home. We also are being strongly encouraged to not allow them to come home Wednesday if they ask to do so.

This is not sitting right with me. If a child(especially first timer) desires to come home early do you see anything wrong with that? Would you catagorize that as a "failure"? I truly do not expect ds to want to come home, based on his personality, however I would not object to it either. It that wrong? Am I setting him up to fail later in life(sounds a wee bit dramatic I know.....) Just wondering what opinions are on this.

[NanceXToo]

No, I do not see anything wrong with letting a child come home early. No, I would not see that as a failure. I would see it as they gave it a shot, they want to come home, so they come home. Giving them that security of knowing they could (in my opinion) would make them feel better about going again next time, and maybe next time they'd stick it out. Whereas if they felt like they were going to be trapped there with no way out, they might not even want to give it a try again the next time.

[Delighted3]

Maybe in the heat of the moment, they don't want the boys to make a decision they would regret. You know, at the end of long a day when they are tired, they may choose the familiarity of home, but then on Thursday in the light of day when they are rested, they would be bummed to not have finished the week.

Joy

[Nicoleab2]

We have always told our kids to call us if they ever want or need to come home if they are away. I don't see it as failure at all. Especially if they are only 11. We have always had a rule you finish what you start, but overnighters are different here. There may be serious reasons they want to come home and can't verbalize it. They may just not be ready to be gone from us for that long at that stage. I think it also takes away some of the fear or anxiety knowing they can come home if they need to.

Nicole

[mom2a&z]

My ds(11) went to his first Boy Scout camp a few weeks ago. Family Night was on Thursday and the boys were to come home on Saturday morning.

 

During Family Night, he kept talking about how much fun he was having and what he was learning. By the end of the night, he was in tears and wanted to come home. We let him know that was not an option and that he could finish out the last day and a half. I also told him that when he went back to the shelter with the rest of the scouts, that he couldn't cry in front of them and if he couldn't stop the tears, he should go straight to his tent and just go to bed. I didn't want to give the older scouts any reason to tease him. It broke my heart to have to tell him this, but I thought it would be a good lesson to learn.

 

I later learned that most of the first years were homesick and they were able to help each other through that night. When he came home on Saturday, he told us he was ready to go back for another week.

 

He seemed proud of himself that he was able to handle the uncomfortable feelings of homesickness and work through them. I think he gained a little bit of confidence that week. :001_smile:

[In The Great White North]

I can see them trying to coach the parents to help the boys have the best possible experience (which coming home early usually isn't.) Maybe they simply didn't express this very well to the parents. Not going on and on about how much you miss him and saying good bye before the program facilitate this. It helps to set the boy up for success. There would be a problem if they were encouraging you to take your son home early!

 

Since you don't feel this will apply to your son anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. I certainly wouldn't assume anything untoward was going on.

 

But why on earth would they have the family night in the middle of the week??? Are they trying to cause a homesickness issue?

 

Our Scout camp's Parent Day (few hours actually) was right before it ended, when we would have been driving up there anyway. (In fact, I think it was designed that way so they would have more drivers.) I doubt that ds was entirely happy to see us. :glare: When we got there, he asked about coming back later in the summer without the rest of the troop.

[Cheryl in NM]

It is raising a little bit of a red flag for me, but...

 

When we moved 4 hours away from the step-kids the first summer they came to visit us their mother called every single day telling them how much she loved them and missed them and couldn't wait for them to come home. They got off the phone every single time crying to go home. We finally let them go home after 2 weeks (4 weeks early), then their mother held it over Dh's head in court saying that he sent them home because he didn't want to spend time with them. It was not the first time they had spent an extended amount of time with us, but before we across town. I think their mom was freaking out that they were so far away and I'm sure there was more to the conversations than the kids told us too.

 

So, the camp might have experienced parents like this before. Maybe the kids are perfectly happy until they see the parents and then get homesick. You know, like when a toddler falls down, but doesn't start crying until Mommy makes a fuss.

[edithcrawley]

Today I got an email regarding the family night tomorrow night. The parents are strongly being encouraged to NOT let our child know that we miss them at home, we are to say goodbye to them before the program so that they will not have the opportunity to ask to go home. We also are being strongly encouraged to not allow them to come home Wednesday if they ask to do so.

This is not sitting right with me. If a child(especially first timer) desires to come home early do you see anything wrong with that? Would you catagorize that as a "failure"? I truly do not expect ds to want to come home, based on his personality, however I would not object to it either. It that wrong? Am I setting him up to fail later in life(sounds a wee bit dramatic I know.....) Just wondering what opinions are on this.

 

 

DH's family is very heavily involved in the scouts, and it seemed that if a camper didn't last the week at sleepaway camp, they tended to drop out of scouts entirely before the year was out. There were a few exceptions, but they were rare. I'm not sure what the exact reasons were for the correlation between staying at camp and staying at scouts, but there is a correlation.

 

I wouldn't consider anyone a failure for not being able to last the week. I do agree with the camp's stance on not making a big deal of missing the kids or they might go home thinking that you want them to go home. It is sort of like when toddlers fall down and the parents make a big deal of it and the kid starts crying because they think that is what the parents want. If it isn't made into a big deal, the kid gets up and goes about their day.

[flopsymopsy]

Thank you everyone. I appreciate the feedback!

[abbeyej]

I think the requests are reasonable. But if I had a child who was *truly* miserable and desperate to come home, I'd bring them home early.

 

I think it's reasonable to try not to dwell on "how much I miss you" when talking to your child. Things like, "Yep, I love you and I've missed having you around, but I'm also thrilled to know you're doing so many exciting things!" are much more positive and helpful.

 

For a kid who's on the *edge* -- who is enjoying camp but struggling with a little homesickness -- it's a matter of contrasting feeding into the homesickness vs bolstering him to get through the last couple of days of camp.

 

Same with saying goodbye *before* the program, rather than late in the evening (when kids are tired and tend to be more emotional and less rational). Saying goodbye earlier can be more positive.

 

BUT, if I had a kid that was genuinely *not* enjoying camp and *desperately* wanted to come home, I'd let them. I don't think it's the end of the world. I think those kids are few and far between -- and generally we know if that's likely to happen *before* camp rather than discovering it in the middle. Most kids going away to camp for the first time will experience some level of homesickness (and yes, it tends to peak in the evenings and on Wednesdays), but while it's a little tough, it's still overwhelmed by the positive aspects of camp. For them, a hug, some encouragement, and the promise to be back to get them in a couple of days is adequate.

[Jan in SC]

This is a very common approach from a boy scout camp. I remember this rule when my thirty-something brother was at camp. It was hard his first year, but he was very proud of himself. The second year, he didn't want to come home at the end of the week.

[lmrich]

Famiy night is too hard. Our troop made the decision not to go at all. Instead the troop had a special cook out. I think seeing mom and dad makes it 100 times harder.

 

My first trip away from home I only cried when I called home, otherwise I was fine.

 

Good luck - my youngest two are at camp this week, oldest at Girl Scouts and youngest at Nana Camp.

[gardening momma]

So, the camp might have experienced parents like this before. Maybe the kids are perfectly happy until they see the parents and then get homesick. You know, like when a toddler falls down, but doesn't start crying until Mommy makes a fuss.

This is exactly what I was thinking is the reason.

[FrogMom5]

It sounds like they are trying to encourage the parents to be upbeat and excited to support the boys. It also sounds like they are doing a poor job of it.

 

Of course you can take your son home if he's really homesick. We have boys go home sometimes. We also have parents who coddle their kids to the point that they ruin the experience for the boys. If you aren't doing that and your son wants to come home, let him. He can go again next year when he's older and knows what to expect.

Denise

[Bassoonaroo]

I like how my son's bs camp (this is his second year, and he's 12 now) is run with regards to family. As a little background, we have a big and beautiful campground and some troops drive quite a ways to get here, some 12 hours or so.

 

Friday night, families are welcome to come up and be there for the closing ceremony if they wish to. Not all families do because some troops are from far away. The close by troops often have quite a few families.

 

After the ceremony, most troops leave and a few stay the night to get on the road early in the AM because it's too far to drive all night, etc. Of course, the far away troops didn't have family driving all day to see them usually (and if they did, the families would stay the night...)

 

When my dd's went to a certain church camp, they had family day in the morning on Wednesday. That worked well because they were rested and fresh in the AM. They weren't facing another night away from home (homesickness is worse when the sun sets).

 

Now we go to a different church camp (it costs less but is just as nice) and they don't have a family day. You can send packages and letters but cannot email or phone your camper. (Of course, if there is an emergency, you can call the camp staff and they'll work with your child). It's sort of nice that the kids DON'T have the option of going home (assuming they are healthy -- this camp got hit HARD during the beginning of the swine flu epidemic!) and can not even entertain the option of "do I want to go home or not."

 

When I was in college, I worked two summers at a girl scout camp. The youngest campers (6-8 years!) stayed just a week but the older campers (ages 8 through teen) stayed TWO weeks. That used to be normal. They did fine. Except for a bad illness, they stayed with us. There were no phone calls (and no email of course back then!). We worked through the homesickness together, giving them shoulders to cry on and diversions as necessary. I never remember even a six year old bailing out. I can remember two girls having a hard time. One was told the night before she came to camp that when she got back, daddy would no longer be living at home because her parents were splitting up. Another was a victim of abuse at the hands of her dad; the police got involved in that one. Other than those girls, they all did fine. And at the end of the week or two-weeks, the girls had grown a lot. Often they had accomplished things that they didn't know were possible.

 

I agree with the PPs that:

 

1) Kids that bail out are often picked on, or at least silently looked down on. They don't share that sense of accomplishment that the survivors have. Now, I don't see this with kids that are sent home due to illness or injury or where grandma died, just with the ones that choose not to stay.

2) Kids that go home early might regret it the next day. They also might feel that they are stupid (which they aren't) for going home early. They might call themselves quitters.

3) Kids often feel homesick when they see parents and they are tired and they know mom and dad are going home without them. Again.

 

I actually think that week-long camps would be doing well to abolish the parents' day/night. It's a hold over from when summer camps were two months long or whatever. I guess there are still some camps like that out there, but most camps these days are just a week and there is really no need for the disruption of parents' day, especially when it occurs only about when campers are settling in to the routine.

 

JMO

[Rosie_0801]

Maybe in the heat of the moment, they don't want the boys to make a decision they would regret. You know, at the end of long a day when they are tired, they may choose the familiarity of home, but then on Thursday in the light of day when they are rested, they would be bummed to not have finished the week.

Joy

 

Yeah, that. Camps are bonding experiences and the overall health of the troop is improved by participation. Leaving early can put a scout on the outer edge of social interaction in a way which wouldn't happen if they had stayed. That post-camp dynamic can last for weeks afterwards.

 

The other thing is, and I expect tomatoes for this, scout leaders really do know more about how your child handles scout camps without you than you do. An experienced camp leader has a pretty good idea of what bouts of homesickness are going to last and which won't. Negative feelings while at camp are entirely normal. That doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad situation for the child any more than negative feelings at home mean home is a bad situation. The adults aren't on permanent highs either. They sneak off to the showers for the lack of conversation offered by the shower walls. They stash chocolate in places the kids won't find even while confiscating chocs from the kids to avoid them sugar crashing.

 

Nothing is a failure. Coming home early from camp isn't failure, it's merely a "try again next time." How many things in life must be tried again next time when we're a bit older? There are things as adults that fall into that category! The only child I ever knew to go home part way through camp was 12. She was such a homebody that her parents picking her up wouldn't console her because they refused to bring her little sister home too. At the same camp was a 6 year old who was the only child from her group to attend. I think she came with a leader, so 4000 people and she was the youngest and only knew one other person.

 

A midweek family day is the craziest things I've ever heard. Nothing could be more disruptive to the children, to the leaders, to the feel of the camp! Talk about messing things up just when everyone is starting to get into the groove!

 

Rosie

[angel marie]

i have a "high energy" child who struggles socially too. boy scout camp was not the right fit for him. he wasn't homesick, but did come home early. what i found with our camp and this may be different from yours, but these camps are run on a shoe-string budget. they don't always have the best personnel around supervising the boys and knowing what to do when kids need help with other things besides just running the different activities. often the people running the activities were teens themselves. our dads go, but they aren't always equipped in knowing what to do in these situations either. also, since the other parents are around its hard to discipline other people's kids.

we took a break for boy scouts this year and am starting with a new group this fall. we will have to find other ways of getting the badges that he would otherwise learn at camp.

my son does however attend other spend the night camps and has a blast. the counselors and staff are older and are trained in all aspects of camp life. maybe you could seek out camps that have staff that are more experienced with all of these sorts of things.

as i'm sure you know, summer camps are for learning many life lessons and our children need to be around people who monitor, intervene, and teach approp.

as for the homesickness, he made it a few days so i don't think it's a failure. also, this is something that is not mandatory for him, its suppose to be fun so i would let him come home. he might not be telling you everything that is wrong ?? not getting along??? bullying???

i also think that the parent visits are a bad idea for just a week long camp for all the reason listed by above people.

hope this has helped.

Edited July 20, 2011 by angel marie

[FrogMom5]

No tomatoes. What Rosie said about the scout leaders knowing more about your kid at camp is true. The leaders are trained and usually have a very good understanding of the cycle of homesickness. They are trying to encourage the boy to gain independence which increases his self-confidence.

 

If you feel that your son's scout leader is overly harsh, unkind or unfair, thus causing your child to be miserable, take him home and find a new troop. Not all scout leaders are created equal. Otherwise, be positive and encourage you son. If you portray confidence in your ds, he will feel more confident. Especially if it's from you, Mom.

Denise

[Boxing Hare]

 

I actually think that week-long camps would be doing well to abolish the parents' day/night. It's a hold over from when summer camps were two months long or whatever. I guess there are still some camps like that out there, but most camps these days are just a week and there is really no need for the disruption of parents' day, especially when it occurs only about when campers are settling in to the routine.

 

JMO

 

:iagree:

 

I told my ds 11 that it was crazy for me to drive 3 hrs each way just to have dinner with him. He agreed with me and had no problem with me not coming. I think that things like this lead to self-centered children.

[black_midori]

Reminds me of a friend's son who stays the night over here on occasion. She is a single parent and has a very strong "I'll come get you whenever you want for whatever reason" thing going on - which is great, in general, but leads to the situation that we ended up having...

 

The first time, he left before bedtime. The next time, he woke me up fairly late to have me call mom to come get him. The next time, he borrowed my phone to call her & ended up having her come get him fairly late (they tried to do it quietly so as not to wake me, but the dogs went nuts barking & I would have been angry to have them sneak out and leave the door unlocked, anyway!). The next time, he used my phone to call her and talked for like 3 hours (but at least managed to stay the night!!).

 

Mind you, the boy was 10 years old and they lived all of 5 minutes away from us.

 

I flat out told her I just couldn't do it anymore. Either she told him that he comes over to stay, goes to bed without stress, and isn't allowed to use my phone except in an emergency, or he doesn't come over period. It was just WAY too stressful for me - sitting up late at night, just waiting for when he come all apologetic to the door... I got too jittery to go to sleep, and it made me irritable at the time and extra-grumpy the next day.

 

Just like that, he was able to start coming over and spending the entire night without any problems - no late-night calls, no last minute bail-outs. I think that all that coddling interfered with his ability to be able to handle the situation - he really just needed mom to say "yes, I love you, I'm sure you are having a marvelous time, see you later" instead of feeding his stress...

[ChristusG]

Sorry, I don't like people telling me how I should parent my children. If my child is crying because he/she wants to come home....then he/she is coming home with me. They can think what they want, tell me I'm ruining them, etc....but they are kids. I came home from sleep overs and guess what? I'm not scared to stay without my parents as an adult.

[black_midori]

Sorry, I don't like people telling me how I should parent my children. If my child is crying because he/she wants to come home....then he/she is coming home with me. They can think what they want, tell me I'm ruining them, etc....but they are kids. I came home from sleep overs and guess what? I'm not scared to stay without my parents as an adult.

 

To be fair to me - I wasn't at all concerned with how she parented her kid, and if she wanted to pick him up all night long at another person's house, I wouldn't have cared a whit. However, he wanted to come stay at MY house (in part because he had gotten picked up several times from other people's houses & they wouldn't let him go there any more) - so MY rules come in to play. I let him do it multiple times for the SOLE reason that she felt it was the right thing to do, and I supported that (even though I didn't agree with it). But enough was enough - he was welcome to stay home, but if he wanted to come stay at my house any more he had to be willing to accept that I would no longer tolerate it. Frankly, I didn't care whether he was able to sleep at people's houses on his own or not - as long as I was no longer the guinea pig for "trying it again".

[ChristusG]

To be fair to me - I wasn't at all concerned with how she parented her kid, and if she wanted to pick him up all night long at another person's house, I wouldn't have cared a whit. However, he wanted to come stay at MY house (in part because he had gotten picked up several times from other people's houses & they wouldn't let him go there any more) - so MY rules come in to play. I let him do it multiple times for the SOLE reason that she felt it was the right thing to do, and I supported that (even though I didn't agree with it). But enough was enough - he was welcome to stay home, but if he wanted to come stay at my house any more he had to be willing to accept that I would no longer tolerate it. Frankly, I didn't care whether he was able to sleep at people's houses on his own or not - as long as I was no longer the guinea pig for "trying it again".

 

Oh, my answer wasn't in response to your comment. I'm sorry! But your situation is different......it should have been the boy's mother who told him that he's not allowed to spend the night again unless he could stay all night. I totally wouldn't want to be the guinea pig over and over either. I like my sleep LOL.

[black_midori]

Sorry, I don't like people telling me how I should parent my children. If my child is crying because he/she wants to come home....then he/she is coming home with me. They can think what they want, tell me I'm ruining them, etc....but they are kids. I came home from sleep overs and guess what? I'm not scared to stay without my parents as an adult.

 

Oh, my answer wasn't in response to your comment. I'm sorry! But your situation is different......it should have been the boy's mother who told him that he's not allowed to spend the night again unless he could stay all night. I totally wouldn't want to be the guinea pig over and over either. I like my sleep LOL.

 

Ah!! <embarrassed grin> Sorry - I'd better go get some sleep, now - I sure can get grumbly without it... :D

 

I'd vote for dropping the parent day at a week-long camp - or holding it the last day!! :)

[kalanamak]

Maybe in the heat of the moment, they don't want the boys to make a decision they would regret. You know, at the end of long a day when they are tired, they may choose the familiarity of home, but then on Thursday in the light of day when they are rested, they would be bummed to not have finished the week.

Joy

 

:iagree:I would take their words as helpful advice, not controlling ridicule.

[Melinda TX]

Both of my Scout sons choked back tears and were sad when we left those first time family nights. Both boys stayed, however, and would not have traded it for anything. It takes a strong stomach sometimes to watch that, but unless they are in some real physical discomfort/danger, we have the boys stay. The sense of accomplishment was priceless.

 

The oldest is now Eagle and the younger is working hard to get there!

[keptwoman]

Yeah, that. Camps are bonding experiences and the overall health of the troop is improved by participation. Leaving early can put a scout on the outer edge of social interaction in a way which wouldn't happen if they had stayed. That post-camp dynamic can last for weeks afterwards.

 

The other thing is, and I expect tomatoes for this, scout leaders really do know more about how your child handles scout camps without you than you do. An experienced camp leader has a pretty good idea of what bouts of homesickness are going to last and which won't. Negative feelings while at camp are entirely normal. That doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad situation for the child any more than negative feelings at home mean home is a bad situation. The adults aren't on permanent highs either. They sneak off to the showers for the lack of conversation offered by the shower walls. They stash chocolate in places the kids won't find even while confiscating chocs from the kids to avoid them sugar crashing.

 

Nothing is a failure. Coming home early from camp isn't failure, it's merely a "try again next time." How many things in life must be tried again next time when we're a bit older? There are things as adults that fall into that category! The only child I ever knew to go home part way through camp was 12. She was such a homebody that her parents picking her up wouldn't console her because they refused to bring her little sister home too. At the same camp was a 6 year old who was the only child from her group to attend. I think she came with a leader, so 4000 people and she was the youngest and only knew one other person.

 

A midweek family day is the craziest things I've ever heard. Nothing could be more disruptive to the children, to the leaders, to the feel of the camp! Talk about messing things up just when everyone is starting to get into the groove!

 

Rosie

 

As a Scout leader, yep, agree with the above. If they really need to go home vs tired or overwhelmed, it's pretty clear and in those cases we call the parents to come get them.

 

The family day thing is weird huh!

[Joyofsixreboot]

I think that might just be " standard" policy they send out yearly. I have never gotten one from BS camp but do get the same spiel from church camp every year. Do what works for your family. My kids never get upset until they discover they have to go HOME. Literal tears from the 7 yo. She thought she got to stay all summer...:glare: