s/o banned toys

[A.Balaban]

I have not yet come across this issue with my children, but personally, for me. I love Disney. I would Disney-ify the house if I could. In storage, I have snow globes, bird feeders, etc. from when I worked at the Disney store. I have seen some great examples on how to balance Disney with real life.

 

For example, one mom wanted to encourage her 3 y/o to practice writing. yes, 3 years old. The little girl loved princesses, so she would buy her a disney princess notebook.

 

Other parents, when they were planning a trip to Disney World (or Disneyland) would start paying their kids "allowance" is Disney money, so by the time the trip rolled around, the kids had an allowance of what they were allowed to buy at the park! What a great idea! You teach your kid value about money AND you get to go to enjoy the park. Some parents also did this as a small gift at Christmas.

 

I think everything is good in moderation. Disney characters don't promote anything in themselves unless the parents let them. When I was growing up, I had a Lion King bedset. I look forward to sharing Disney with my kids as they grow older.

[Skadi]

Why is looking one's best, wearing dresses, enjoying the perks of being a girl (woman/female, your pick) such a bad thing? I don't understand why a girl being a girl or wanting to be a "princess" is a bad thing. A girl (woman/female, your pick) can be feminine, graceful, wear a dress and be smart, funny and strong.

 

A better question might be, why can't a woman be strong and smart without having a sixteen inch waist and a beautiful face?

[cathmom]

. The only one I had no issues with was Belle. Yes she was pretty, but that wasn't enough to make up for the fact that she read and had a mind of her own. They all thought she was weird. Gaston only wanted to marry her because she was the prettiest in the town, but she saw through him. I do like the added scene in the DVD, you get the feeling that Belle's and the Beast's relationship was based on actually enjoying each others' company.

 

Belle is smart, a bookworm and brave. Nothing to object to about that character, as far as I can see.

 

 

 

Belle is kind of a snob, though. "I want much more than this provincial life..."

[Jenny in Florida]

Belle is kind of a snob, though. "I want much more than this provincial life..."

 

Why is it snobby to want more? Why is it snobby to have a dream?

 

If she were happy as a clam in her little town and content to settle down and marry Gaston, there wouldn't be much opportunity for a story, would there?

[cathmom]

Why is it snobby to want more? Why is it snobby to have a dream?

 

If she were happy as a clam in her little town and content to settle down and marry Gaston, there wouldn't be much opportunity for a story, would there?

 

I actually like that movie, don't get me wrong. Of course, I prefer the original story to Disney's version, but that pretty much goes without saying.

[silliness7]

 

Cinderella? Dishrag whose only admirable trait as far as I can tell is that she's pretty.

 

 

Poor Cinderella. I never saw her as a dishrag. She was kind and long-suffering to those who would treat her like garbage. Her gentleness and patience are virtues I point out to my dd's quite a bit.

[Jenny in Florida]

I actually like that movie, don't get me wrong. Of course, I prefer the original story to Disney's version, but that pretty much goes without saying.

 

The Disney version is the Disney version. It's fun, and the music is good, but I rarely connect it with the original fairy tale.

 

My absolute favorite version of the story is Robin McKinley's "Beauty," by the way.

 

One of the reasons I love Disney's B&B, though, is its theatricality. When my husband and I saw it in the movie theatre (because we're the dorks who go to Disney movies even without kids), I said on the way out that it was more like a Broadway musical than an animated flick. So, when Disney annouced they were doing a stage version, I wasn't surprised at all.

[Jenny in Florida]

Poor Cinderella. I never saw her as a dishrag. She was kind and long-suffering to those who would treat her like garbage. Her gentleness and patience are virtues I point out to my dd's quite a bit.

 

But would you really want your daughters to put up with being treated the way Cinderella is by her "family?"

 

I would want mine to get out of there and take her best shot at having a good life without waiting for a man to rescue her.

 

I'm also bothered by the fact that the prince falls in love with Cinderella based, apparently, entirely on how pretty she is. I feel very strongly that I want my kids to know love is much more complex than liking what someone looks like on the outside.

[Aubrey]

What is so wrong with Disney toys/merchandise?

 

When I was reading the thread about toys that little girls aren't allowed to have, I expected to see Barbies, Bratz and maybe make-up sets. I was really surprised at the number of people who don't allow princess things or other Disney products. I'm just curious why the princesses are a problem?

 

Seriously? I can't imagine anyone thinking Disney princesses were sexy.:confused: My girls love Disney princess movies and so do I. I see nothing wrong with them at all. The only one I do not care for is the Frog Princess one but that is because of the weird voodoo stuff.

 

You asked people why they don't allow Disney & then you criticized their answers--not nice!

 

I'm not thrilled about Disney & while I don't "ban" it, it's heavily moderated here. (What's the difference between Disney princesses & Barbie?)

 

But I think I'd rather save WHY for a thread where someone really wants to know, not just justify their own choices.

[twoxcell]

You asked people why they don't allow Disney & then you criticized their answers--not nice!

 

I'm not thrilled about Disney & while I don't "ban" it, it's heavily moderated here. (What's the difference between Disney princesses & Barbie?)

 

But I think I'd rather save WHY for a thread where someone really wants to know, not just justify their own choices.

 

I think your confused you quoted two different people one of which was me and I did not start this thread?:001_huh: Nore do I think I was really criticizing anyone, more like surprised that anyone would think that Disney princesses are sexy. Also I could care less what anyone else chooses for their own family.

[meggie]

Belle is kind of a snob, though. "I want much more than this provincial life..."

 

I'm sorry, I analyze movies way to much. All of them. So here goes my explanation for Belle: Snobs look down their nose on others. She does not. Yes, she is dissatisfied with her provincial life, but she is very kind and polite to the rest of the townsfolk and tries to talk with them, even though they constantly judge and look down their nose at her and her father. And Gaston, the biggest snob of all, only wants her because she's the "most beautiful girl in town and he deserves the best." I daresay her dislike of that provincial town is more because of the way they all treat her.

 

And Belle is not the type to put up with someone, herself included, being mistreated. When Lefou insults her father, she yells at him. When the Beast goes on a power trip locking up her sick father, she sacrifices herself to save him. When the Beast flies off his handle, she leaves. When Gaston tries to blackmail her into marriage, she finds a better solution. So no, in no way would I classify Belle as a snob.

[meggie]

I think your confused you quoted two different people one of which was me and I did not start this thread?:001_huh: Nore do I think I was really criticizing anyone, more like surprised that anyone would think that Disney princesses are sexy. Also I could care less what anyone else chooses for their own family.

 

I think it was a mistake. Best to just assume the best in others. Accidents happen.

[twoxcell]

I think it was a mistake. Best to just assume the best in others. Accidents happen.

I'm sure it was a mistake that is why I said I think she is confused.;) I wasn't really assuming anything about her just trying to clear it up so to speak.

[Dolphin]

Why is looking one's best, wearing dresses, enjoying the perks of being a girl (woman/female, your pick) such a bad thing? I don't understand why a girl being a girl or wanting to be a "princess" is a bad thing. A girl (woman/female, your pick) can be feminine, graceful, wear a dress and be smart, funny and strong.

:iagree:

 

My daughter loves being a Princess, Her favorite song is Dance me Daddy, "If I am your princess, then you are the King of the World" I don't see why that is bad at 4.

 

She asks me if she is beautiful, the answer is always yes, even when she is covered in mud. All children are beautiful, all God's children are! I also tell her that she is smart, funny and imaginative.

 

For us, Disney is part of the imagination. When we went to Disneyworld, it was amazing see it through her eyes. All the make believe was all around her, and it didn't curb her imagination, it added to it. Currently our Tangled figurines are playing with our play mobile pirates, (thank you Pirates of the Caribbean (RIDE, not movie!)):lol:

 

For some of us, it comes down to personal taste. I enjoyed Disney movies as a kid. Fox and the hound, Winnie the Pooh and the Aristocrats were my favs. I enjoyed them, my kids like them, but they are not all that we watch. (We also love Ponyo, so I third that opinion by the way)

 

ALL movies and screen time are limited in our house though, so in no way does it take over our lives. 30 min a day during the week, 1 movie a weekend.

 

It's fun! Also, I am middle aged, over weight and have had 2 kids, however, I still call myself beautiful and sometimes like to dress up and go on a date with my dh, just like a princess, but then I also like Harry Potter!:lol:

[Element]

We never actually "banned" Disney, but we did make a conscious effort to limit the "Disney marketing-machine" effect on our dc. There just seems to be a lot of commercialization and cross-promotion of Disney films/merchandise/theme parks and it was just too forced for us.

 

When my ds was younger, we would skip the previews and bonus features on the DVD's and go straight to the movie. He doesn't seem to really be interested in Disney anymore, and my dd never got into it at all. (I have actually tried to get her to watch the various Disney princess movies and the only one she will ever sit through is "The Princess and the Frog.") They both seem to prefer the Studio Ghibli films to the Disney films. We did flat-out ban access to Disney websites or television shows because they were just garbage fluff, for lack of a better term. ;)

[Shawna in Texas]

I saw this at the Boing Boing link. It slayed me.

 

I don't really pay Disney any mind here. My youngest loves fairies, so of course she loves Tinkerbell. Luckily, my MIL keeps her stocked with that so I don't have to. I don't even think she knows the movie exists. She has seen Princess and the Frog, but only because it's streaming. It really didn't hold her interest, not like Miyuzaki films. I don't think my oldest has ever seen one of the Disney "princess" movies, We do have Barbies. They may have started out as beautiful, but they certainly don't stay that way. Not after my girls get done with them.

[Peela]

I allowed fairy and princess stuff and it never seemed extreme- I enjoyed it myself. Its part of the beauty of having a daughter, to re- live all those things.

I dont like Disney or commercialisation of those things, but some made its way into our lives. I didn't make too much of a fuss. I prefer not to have it but I never denied her something that meant a lot to her. We picked up everything 2nd hand so if she saw something Disney that cost $1, no big deal. BUt i was conscious of not allowing advertising, basically, because I don't like it, even if its advertising for a movie.

These strange extreme cases people talk about where it sounds pathological....they are signs of a kid whose fantasy world is not in balance...or their parents feed it in an unhealthy way....or some other imbalance. Normal healthy kids keep these things in perspective.

 

There are 2 parts I think for many of us. The part where we want the absolute best for our kids. We want to keep them away from bad influences and bad influences can include crappy advertising, pink plastic everything, etc etc, all in the service of making money for multi national corporations. Nothing nice or personal about it it, yet our kids are totally exploited for all this stuff. They are exploited as potential "consumers" rather than people. It is totally heartless and soulless, and I think many of us instinctively rebel against being controlled, and our kids being controlled, by such merchandising and the mentality behind it.

 

Then there is the other part....where we accept this is the world we live in and we try and find some balance because we simply can't protect our kids from the actual world they are growing up in. We try and keep things in perspective, that a doll or a cartoon, a cupcake or a set of fairy wings or a plastic toy...is not always a battle worth fighting.

 

And where each of us draws the line is different, but most of us here do have a line somewhere, in different parts of our lives. Whether its plastic toys, advertising, sugar and health foods, or sleepovers. We dont even know if we are doing the right thing half the time....but we do feel the need to do something. Sometimes we back down, change our mind. I know many, many of us changed over the issue of plastic guns for boys, or Barbies for girls.

[Orthodox6]

I'm still sleepy, but will bumble out some thoughts.

 

Excessive marketing by Disney. Other companies' marketing is just as intense; however, Disney's seems more pervasive. Everywhere! (and wow! what a profit margin!) (I'm referring here to The Disney Lifestyle of toys, movies, books, clothing, amusement parks, . . .) Disney can be a cradle-to-grave invasion of the home, if one allows it.

 

Disney's distortions and rewriting of folklore irritate me. I'll reject a Disney version anytime in favor of "the real thing."

 

I grew up soaked in fairy tales and legends, reading all the books I could find in the local libraries. That dismisses any wondering whether I reject "fantasy." What I do reject is the consistent self-centered, navel-gazing of The Disney Princess. Everything boils down to Me! Me! Me! Even when the storyline presents a justification, " But I'm really doing this for my country. . . for the frog. . . etc." One of the most eye-popping examples of selfishness is, of course, Ariel, who deserved to be chained to a sea floor rock in a long "time out".

Edited July 19, 2011 by Orthodox6

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm sorry, I analyze movies way to much. All of them. So here goes my explanation for Belle: Snobs look down their nose on others. She does not. Yes, she is dissatisfied with her provincial life, but she is very kind and polite to the rest of the townsfolk and tries to talk with them, even though they constantly judge and look down their nose at her and her father. And Gaston, the biggest snob of all, only wants her because she's the "most beautiful girl in town and he deserves the best." I daresay her dislike of that provincial town is more because of the way they all treat her.

 

And Belle is not the type to put up with someone, herself included, being mistreated. When Lefou insults her father, she yells at him. When the Beast goes on a power trip locking up her sick father, she sacrifices herself to save him. When the Beast flies off his handle, she leaves. When Gaston tries to blackmail her into marriage, she finds a better solution. So no, in no way would I classify Belle as a snob.

 

Agreed.

 

She's my very favorite Disney princess.

 

In fact, my husband and I used a Beauty and the Beast Christmas ornament as the topper on our wedding cake.

[*Lulu*]

For those who have a problem with the over-marketing of Disney:

 

Is it only the princess movies/merchandise that you avoid, or the Pixar films as well? (Cars, Toy Story, etc.)

[Orthodox6]

For those who have a problem with the over-marketing of Disney:

 

Is it only the princess movies/merchandise that you avoid, or the Pixar films as well? (Cars, Toy Story, etc.)

 

Interesting question. Starts a lot of bunny thought trails, too, about what to do about all of the subsidiary companies held by a parent company. Clorox now owns Burt's Bees, for example. I don't often use Clorox products (not a boycott, just don't incline towards poisons), but I do like some of the Burt's Bees products.

 

Pixar "stuff" in the sense of toys and clothing don't pull anything out of my wallet. The films, however, do -- if they are of interest to us. We have found no motivation to watch "Cars 2", for example.

 

Pixar also is a different company since it was purchased in 2006. As per Wiki (of course, hardly the scholar's choice of reference tool!) --

 

[web quote]

Pixar states that they believe that sequels should only be made if they can come up with a story as good as the original. Following the release of Toy Story 2, Pixar and Disney had a gentlemen's agreement that Disney would not make any sequels without Pixar's involvement, despite their right to do so. In 2004, after Pixar announced they were unable to agree on a new deal, Disney announced that they would go ahead with sequels to Pixar's films with or without Pixar. Toy Story 3 was put into pre-production at the new CGI division of Walt Disney Feature Animation, Circle 7 Animation.

[end quote]

 

Back to the original question, I don't gravitate toward anything from Disney. Said that already in a previous post, though.

[Matryoshka]

And Belle is not the type to put up with someone, herself included, being mistreated. When Lefou insults her father, she yells at him. When the Beast goes on a power trip locking up her sick father, she sacrifices herself to save him. When the Beast flies off his handle, she leaves. When Gaston tries to blackmail her into marriage, she finds a better solution. So no, in no way would I classify Belle as a snob.

 

 

Sorry, couldn't disagree more. Hate, hate, hate Disney's Beauty and the Beast. She won't put up with anything? The Beast puts her father in prison. He is dismissive and mean and downright abusive to her. But then the little petals start falling off his rose, and oh, no! Better shape up or be cursed forever! So he promises to be nicer. It's like a movie about how abusive men aren't so bad if they promise to better next time. :glare::glare::glare: To me, the Beast is Gaston with fur and an apology. Why does she fall in love with him? Where is the attraction? Hello, the entire point of this story is that the Beast is supposed to be beautiful on the inside. I never get this. What do he and Belle even have in common?? It's like she marries her abuser. Ewwwww.

 

The fairy tale, on the other hand, is one of my absolute favorites. Now there is a strong woman. She offers to go to the Beast (even though he never abducts her father, he's safe at home). She is still an intelligent book-reading woman (Disney did not make that part up), and she and the Beast fall in love over intelligent dinner conversation and because he is always, always, always without fail, kind and gentle with her. There is no rose, there is no threat of everlasting curse; he is who he is because he is.

 

Now, The Little Mermaid is one place where I feel Disney improved the story. :tongue_smilie: That Andersen guy needed a Prozac. Really, the end of the story is she has to kill the man she loves or commit suicide and lose her soul? Ew. This is one time where happily ever after is an improvement! ;) And I don't mind her outfit - exactly what would you have a mermaid wear? And I love the songs. :D

[Matryoshka]

Is it only the princess movies/merchandise that you avoid, or the Pixar films as well? (Cars, Toy Story, etc.)

 

All of 'em, and not just Disney. We don't do merchandised "stuff". I've taught my kids that's just a way to make some cheap, low quality stuff that you wouldn't need or want otherwise sell for 10x as much because they slapped a picture on it.

[kchara]

I haven't read the whole thread, b/c I'm on my first cup of coffee, but here's the main reason we don't buy Disney. Last year, Demi Lovato had a break down on tour with the Jonas Brothers. We went and looked at a lot of the stars from Disney, and the vast, vast majority of them have serious emotional and/or addiction problems. We feel this probably stems from entirely too much pressure too early on. Those kids usually have their shows, plus advertising and modeling, Disney TV and other appearances, many (most?) of them have music careers, and there have been a lot of them now with clothing lines. It's just too much for children, so we choose not to add to what we feel is exploitation by buying their products.

[Heather in Neverland]

I waited 12 years to have a daughter and now that she is here you can bet your sweet bippy she will have pink, frilly, princess-y stuff!!! I won't buy skanky Bratz dolls but a Cinderella tiara? You betcha. :D

[fairfarmhand]

interesting discussion...

 

I've never made an issue over Princesses/Disney. We don't do Barbie, but that is more because I don't want 50,000 tiny shoes caught in the vacuum cleaner.

 

My girls have enjoyed princess movies, but as they grow they have interestingly changed their views of princesses. They think Buttercup in the Princess Bride is pathetic. They love the character Eowyn in LOTR because she actually DOES something. They think that Arwen is silly because all she does is sit around and cry. (their words not mine!)

 

So I don't think that letting them play princess and watch princess movies has ruined them.

[Matryoshka]

I won't buy skanky Bratz dolls but a Cinderella tiara? You betcha. :D

 

See, I have ZERO problems with tiaras and pink frilly stuff (with three girls we have tons), I just don't want it made out of pink plastic with a big Disney (or other company) logo on it. :) The ones the princesses wear don't have Disney logos or disembodied heads of other people on them! ;)

[Orthodox6]

 

We don't do Barbie, but that is more because I don't want 50,000 tiny shoes caught in the vacuum cleaner.

 

.

 

They are called BarbieLegos. :D

[*Lulu*]

See, I have ZERO problems with tiaras and pink frilly stuff (with three girls we have tons), I just don't want it made out of pink plastic with a big Disney (or other company) logo on it. :) The ones the princesses wear don't have Disney logos or disembodied heads of other people on them! ;)

 

:iagree:

 

I loathe the way the Disney apparel looks. (Not to mention that it is very poorly made.) We have a few items that have been gifts, and I do not mind DD wearing her pink Disney princess tee as she rolls in the mud pit with her brothers, but we do not spend our money on it. (Mostly b/c we do not buy much outside of B-day and Christmas and try to get long-lasting, open-ended play toys when we do.)

 

That being said, we did spring for a few princess toys a few Christmases ago, and for dinner at the castle when we visited WDW. Most of DD's princess stuff has come from her saving and spending her own money on it. (Although I think I will be springing for a Tiana beach towel since DD needs a new one and Tiana is, according to DD, "the very best princess ever!")

 

The Disney movie that has taken over our house is Cars. DS4 discovered the movie when he was 2 and EVERYONE in the extended family indulged him since, until then, all he had ever wanted were balls. We have Cars t-shirts, shoes, underwear, cups, and cars everywhere. He is far more obsessed with yelling, "I am speed." and running through the house than DD is with playing princess.

 

As someone who tends to over think parenting and then panic about how I may be ruining my children, anytime I can make the choice to :chillpill:, I do.

[Heather in Neverland]

See, I have ZERO problems with tiaras and pink frilly stuff (with three girls we have tons), I just don't want it made out of pink plastic with a big Disney (or other company) logo on it. :) The ones the princesses wear don't have Disney logos or disembodied heads of other people on them! ;)

 

I'm not a big fan of clothes with any big logos, Disney or otherwise, but toys with logos don't bother me. My little princess has a pink chair with Disney princesses on it and a pink backpack with hello kitty on it.

[twoxcell]

We don't do Barbie, but that is more because I don't want 50,000 tiny shoes caught in the vacuum cleaner.

 

 

I throw away the shoes and tiny pieces immediatly. I don't need my baby eating them. As far as Disney product my girls each own like maybe two clothing items, some costumes, a couple Disney barbies, and a blanket. All of which were given to us. I think some of you are over annalizing the stories a bit. If you have a daughter basing her entire romantic life on some silly cartoon than you have bigger problems than letting them play or watch a couple of fantasy cartoons.:lol:

[dlcricket]

:iagree: We were so excited to see Princess and the Frog(me even more than DD, because Disney FINALLY had an African American princess!), but the voodoo just totally skeeved me out. We watched it once, and won't again. I wasn't really aware beforehand that was in the movie.

 

I felt that the voodoo was shown to be a dangerous influence and the consequences shown were realistic. It did not encourage experimentation with these powers or spirits, but made it look undesirable and bad.

[Senorita Tuna Fish]

The only one I do not care for is the Frog Princess one but that is because of the weird voodoo stuff.

 

But magic mirrors and fairy god mothers, and witches that cast evil spells are ok?

Sorry for the Hijack, but really?

 

My girly like girly stuff and like princess stuff, but also like to be rough and tumble and play in dirt. I think banning disney princess things can back fire unless you disallow all thing princess(non disney) too. My girls can find princess in everything and anything. I don't but Disney stuff because it's expensive...no other reason. Movies, we buy, merchandise we don't. Besides they think it's more fun to make their own princess costume!

[twoxcell]

But magic mirrors and fairy god mothers, and witches that cast evil spells are ok?

Sorry for the Hijack, but really?

Once again I do not really need to explain my personal convictions on this. As I said earlier Bippity Boppity Boo is not exactly witch craft, and the other so called witches in Disney cartoons are all villains and not promoted in any way. I take any movie I let my kids watch case by case. If I watch it(or preview) and I feel a conviction about it we simply do not watch again. I do not take issue with a bit of fantasy. Also it is not as if we are watching Disney movies every day in fact I can't remember the last day we did.;) Quite honestly I didn't even watch the entire Princess and the Frog, I simply just did not like it.

[Senorita Tuna Fish]

Once again I do not really need to explain my personal convictions on this. As I said earlier Bippity Boppity Boo is not exactly witch craft, and the other so called witches in Disney cartoons are all villains and not promoted in any way. I take any movie I let my kids watch case by case. If I watch it(or preview) and I feel a conviction about it we simply do not watch again. I do not take issue with a bit of fantasy. Also it is not as if we are watching Disney movies every day in fact I can't remember the last day we did.;) Quite honestly I didn't even watch the entire Princess and the Frog, I simply just did not like it.

 

This response is usually why I don't comment. I understand that your response is coming after you have responded to other people about your "personal convictions" but I never asked you to explain them. Though, in reality you did explain them. I'm am allowed to have an opinion. You don't have to like the movie, never said you did. I just think it's an odd type of argument to allow "a bit of fantasy" and allow witch craft, fairies, and magic mirrors, but say that because the movie included voodoo it was bad. As for the voodoo being promoted? Wasn't the villain the one doing the bad magic? Ahhhh I guess your referring to Mama Odie, I can make the same comparison to all of the other movies....none of the other princess movies use a different magic from that which was used to cause all the harm in the first place.....Good witch against bad witch, Magic against magic. But Like I said feel free to have your opinion! We Loved the movie! Love the music! You will get no further comment on the matter from me!

[twoxcell]

This response is usually why I don't comment. I understand that your response is coming after you have responded to other people about your "personal convictions" but I never asked you to explain them. Though, in reality you did explain them. I'm am allowed to have an opinion. You don't have to like the movie, never said you did. I just think it's an odd type of argument to allow "a bit of fantasy" and allow witch craft, fairies, and magic mirrors, but say that because the movie included voodoo it was bad. As for the voodoo being promoted? Wasn't the villain the one doing the bad magic? Ahhhh I guess your referring to Mama Odie, I can make the same comparison to all of the other movies....none of the other princess movies use a different magic from that which was used to cause all the harm in the first place.....Good witch against bad witch, Magic against magic. But Like I said feel free to have your opinion! We Loved the movie! Love the music! You will get no further comment on the matter from me!

 

I just want to clarify that I was not offended by your post at all. It is hard sometimes to relay over the internet tone. KWIM. I definitely see what your saying and maybe it doesn't really make sense. It did in my mind anyways and like I said I take movies case by case and don't just go with it because a certain company made it. Also I can not exactly comment on the Princess in the Frog because I barely remember it. It just did not appeal to me or my kids for that matter. It is a good thing that we each make our own decisions on this matter as well as others.;) I'm totally a non confrontational person, so I always feel the need to clarify if I think some one is annoyed with my comments.

[NicAnn]

For those who have a problem with the over-marketing of Disney:

 

Is it only the princess movies/merchandise that you avoid, or the Pixar films as well? (Cars, Toy Story, etc.)

 

We avoid branded merchandise of any kind, but particularly things that we disagree with on a religious or moral level.

 

Oh and I want to clarify- we are not anti princess. We are anti-Disney Princess. The old original stories I have no problem with, nor do I have issue with the homemade princess dress my Dd wears occasionally.

[meggie]

I am fine with you disagreeing. Differences add spice to life, I suppose. :001_smile:

Sorry, couldn't disagree more. Hate, hate, hate Disney's Beauty and the Beast. She won't put up with anything? The Beast puts her father in prison. He is dismissive and mean and downright abusive to her. But then the little petals start falling off his rose, and oh, no! Better shape up or be cursed forever! So he promises to be nicer. It's like a movie about how abusive men aren't so bad if they promise to better next time. :glare::glare::glare: To me, the Beast is Gaston with fur and an apology. Why does she fall in love with him? Where is the attraction? Hello, the entire point of this story is that the Beast is supposed to be beautiful on the inside. I never get this. What do he and Belle even have in common?? It's like she marries her abuser. Ewwwww.

 

The fairy tale, on the other hand, is one of my absolute favorites. Now there is a strong woman. She offers to go to the Beast (even though he never abducts her father, he's safe at home). She is still an intelligent book-reading woman (Disney did not make that part up), and she and the Beast fall in love over intelligent dinner conversation and because he is always, always, always without fail, kind and gentle with her. There is no rose, there is no threat of everlasting curse; he is who he is because he is.

 

Now, The Little Mermaid is one place where I feel Disney improved the story. :tongue_smilie: That Andersen guy needed a Prozac. Really, the end of the story is she has to kill the man she loves or commit suicide and lose her soul? Ew. This is one time where happily ever after is an improvement! ;) And I don't mind her outfit - exactly what would you have a mermaid wear? And I love the songs. :D

Yes, he is mean and dismissive and abusive in the beginning (thinking specifically when she won't go down to dinner and he runs up and yells at her) but she very adamantly defies him; first by not going down to eat with him and second by getting the staff to feed her and third by going to the only forbidden spot in the castle (at that point in the movie I always think, "No you stupid girl, don't you realize he'll be there?!" but I suppose it wouldn't have helped the plot line that way.) And AGAIN, the Beast goes on another power trip (he has an awful lot of those in the beginning) and she leaves.

 

After he yells at her, he slumps down with his face in his hands. You get the impression he feels badly for yelling at her like that. Maybe it's only because he thinks she was the one shot he had, but he does feel bad. Step 1 in the right direction. You never really know why he follows her, but he does and saves her life. She almost leaves him, but recognizes that she owes him more than that.

 

When she's trying to clean his wound and he's being grumpy, she doesn't take that lying down either. She tells him it's his own fault and it is and he knows it. Never, ever again is he unkind to her. With the added scene in the DVD it shows that some time has passed (it's spring) and he has always stayed kind to her. I also like the added scene because it does show more to their relationship. She reads Romeo and Juliet to him and asks him to read it to her, but he's forgotten how to read so she starts teaching him. I think it's sweet. And his ultimate sacrifice is letting her go so she can save her father even though it means he's cursed forever. It's why he looks at the rose while he thinks about it. He knows if he lets her go he and his entire household won't be able to change back to human and he puts her above that. It shows that he's finally put someone else above his own desires. And interestingly enough, it's the same situation at the beginning. In the beginning he didn't care that her father would die or that she didn't get to say goodbye to him. But at the end he cared enough to make that sacrifice.

 

Sorry, I told you I analyze movies way too much. It was quite the day when I put together a lot of my Princess Bride analysis; so many more things made sense.

Edited July 19, 2011 by meggie

[Matryoshka]

Yes, he is mean and dismissive and abusive in the beginning (thinking specifically when she won't go down to dinner and he runs up and yells at her) but she very adamantly defies him; first by not going down to eat with him and second by getting the staff to feed her and third by going to the only forbidden spot in the castle (at that point in the movie I always think, "No you stupid girl, don't you realize he'll be there?!" but I suppose it wouldn't have helped the plot line that way.) And AGAIN, the Beast goes on another power trip (he has an awful lot of those in the beginning) and she leaves.

 

After he yells at her, he slumps down with his face in his hands. You get the impression he feels badly for yelling at her like that. Maybe it's only because he thinks she was the one shot he had, but he does feel bad. Step 1 in the right direction. You never really know why he follows her, but he does and saves her life. She almost leaves him, but recognizes that she owes him more than that.

 

When she's trying to clean his wound and he's being grumpy, she doesn't take that lying down either. She tells him it's his own fault and it is and he knows it. Never, ever again is he unkind to her. With the added scene in the DVD it shows that some time has passed (it's spring) and he has always stayed kind to her. I also like the added scene because it does show more to their relationship. She reads Romeo and Juliet to him and asks him to read it to her, but he's forgotten how to read so she starts teaching him. I think it's sweet. And his ultimate sacrifice is letting her go so she can save her father even though it means he's cursed forever. It's why he looks at the rose while he thinks about it. He knows if he lets her go he and his entire household won't be able to change back to human and he puts her above that. It shows that he's finally put someone else above his own desires. And interestingly enough, it's the same situation at the beginning. In the beginning he didn't care that her father would die or that she didn't get to say goodbye to him. But at the end he cared enough to make that sacrifice.

 

 

Yeah, but that's exactly it. How many abusers apologize profusely and promise to be different and feel horribly remorseful after they've yelled or done worse? And sorry, it still seems to me like the rose is what gets his butt in gear, not a true and lasting change in his character. I don't buy that he won't return to form after he gets what he wants (like many abusers who manage to hold it together till they're married or until the girl who left them returns). Sorry, the message to me still seems to be that it's okay for a guy to treat you like dirt and be violent as long as he's sorry and apologizes later. Or that you can change an abusive man if you love him enough.

 

See, I can over-analyze too. ;) For a truly awesome retelling of Beauty and the Beast (it is my favorite fairy-tale! - which is probably why I'm so bothered by this one in particular - I really don't have any other issue with the changes in Disney's other fairy tale movies - the most annoyed I get is by the North American raccoons and chipmunks in the supposedly European forests :tongue_smilie:) - try Beauty by Robin McKinley. Love love love love that book! :)

[twoxcell]

Beauty by Robin McKinley. Love love love love that book!

I love that book too:001_smile:!

[meggie]

Yeah, but that's exactly it. How many abusers apologize profusely and promise to be different and feel horribly remorseful after they've yelled or done worse? And sorry, it still seems to me like the rose is what gets his butt in gear, not a true and lasting change in his character. I don't buy that he won't return to form after he gets what he wants (like many abusers who manage to hold it together till they're married or until the girl who left them returns). Sorry, the message to me still seems to be that it's okay for a guy to treat you like dirt and be violent as long as he's sorry and apologizes later. Or that you can change an abusive man if you love him enough.

 

See, I can over-analyze too. ;) For a truly awesome retelling of Beauty and the Beast (it is my favorite fairy-tale! - which is probably why I'm so bothered by this one in particular - I really don't have any other issue with the changes in Disney's other fairy tale movies - the most annoyed I get is by the North American raccoons and chipmunks in the supposedly European forests :tongue_smilie:) - try Beauty by Robin McKinley. Love love love love that book! :)

 

I can totally understand your point.

[WishboneDawn]

We avoid branded merchandise of any kind, but particularly things that we disagree with on a religious or moral level.

 

Oh and I want to clarify- we are not anti princess. We are anti-Disney Princess. The old original stories I have no problem with, nor do I have issue with the homemade princess dress my Dd wears occasionally.

 

I just want to make the point that even what many people think of the originals aren't the originals. For instance the Brothers Grimm changed the folk tales they collected a good deal. Fairy and folk tales generally change with the tellers and the context of the times. In that light what Disney did, retelling the tales for contemporary audiences is keeping in the spirit of what those tales are for. Times have changed again and they've lost some of their relevance but then we should be retelling them again, not necessarily looking for the non-existant originals.

[WishboneDawn]

try Beauty by Robin McKinley. Love love love love that book! :)

 

My daughter just finished Hero and the Crown and The Blue Sword and she's read a few others. She loves them.

 

Robin McKinley does fairy stories right, retelling them to appeal to people now and to tell us about ourselves rather then people 50 or 200 years ago.