S/O Is it just me, or......

[BethG]

Long time lurker doing my first spin-off thread!

This is a spin-off of the thread "Is it just me, or...." thread begun by

momk2000. Quite long!

 

I find the issue she addressed in that thread to be rampant and I was so tempted to post this on that thread, but I really want to know other folks' experience with this so I did a spin-off.

 

First, let me quote her original post here:

She wrote,

"does anyone else notice this? Warning - Long vent!

 

Why are people so unfriendly in our world today? I'm especially referring to other moms that are associated with the same groups, etc...my children are in. I'm not asking anyone to be my best friend, but sometimes I think it would be like torture for some of these women to just say hello, or even crack a smile as they pass by.

I try to say hello to everyone, but when they don't even look up at you, it's kind of hard to do. Some go so far as to look the other way. I try to at least give a friendly smile, and if I have the opportunity will say hello just to be friendly.

This is something that has bothered me for a long time, but it has really been getting to me lately. Today we came home from an activity and I was halfway in tears. As we were leaving, I passed by one of the moms in the group, gave her a friendly smile and said hello. This is someone that I am not "friends" with, but she knows me from our involvement in the group. She just kept walking, didn't even look at me, and had a very serious look on her face. I used to think, well maybe the person is preoccupied and didn't see me, etc.., but it just happens way too much. I'm really fed up with how rude people are today. I even get this in church of all places.

It is really hurtful, especially when you greet someone and don't get an answer back.

We recently started going to a new church, and I really like it a lot. The only thing that turns my stomach, is how snobby the women are there. It's a shame, because I am not as involved in church activities for that one reason.

I just feel like I want to cry my eyes out right now." (end of her quote)

 

So...here's my issue/question.

Background: I used to be (6 years ago ish) a quite attractive woman with an hour glass figure (5'10 138 lbs.) but after some kiddos and a growing obsession with sugared beverages, I gained a significant amount of poundage (70 lbs to be exact), so now I'm fluffy. I've managed to loose all but 35 lbs. of it, but as I was reading her post I wanted to share my experience of how differently I was treated by OTHER woman thin vs. fat.

It's a difference of NIGHT and DAY. Same person, same clothes, just chunkier. I've also noticed a direct correlation with being treated increasing better (with people smiling back, etc.) in DIRECT proportion to my weight loss --- meaning the negative feedback (no smiles, no conversations, getting totally ignored in small groups, etc.) was WORST when I was most fat and is getting increasing better as I'm loosing. And, I KNOW FOR A FACT that it's not been because I had "a lower self esteem" at my heaviest and "may have interpretted things more negatively" ---- NOPE. I've always been a cherry, sanguine with lots of personality.

 

And, I live in the south --- in ALABAMA!!! (the BIBLE belt!) where folks are known for being friendly.

 

Anyone else noticed this?

 

I truly think that adulthood is like jr high --- if you "LOOK" thin/cute/stylish like the top-of-the-pyramid-petite cheerleader, then you're IN, and if not, you're OUT. I'm not sure it's not about that primitive even in adulthood.

 

At the church I'm visiting, we sit on the very back pew (so kids won't disturb), and during the greeting song ON MOST occasions, the people in front of us won't even TURN AROUND to shake our hands. And we're friendly, well kept, (husband's a cute professional) people. Also.....the ONE man who does make any effort to approach us, will LITERALLY go down the row and shake my husband's hand, my kids' hands, and SKIP me (and he doesn't know us from Adam as we're so new to there). I told my husband and he didn't believe it until he saw it first hand.

 

I truly believe there's a correlation.

 

Anyone else noticed the increased rudeness when you aren't your ideal body weight?

 

(WANT TO CLARIFY that the original poster of that thread didn't mention her own body appearance nor did any of her posters, I take full responsibility with this new strange "SPIN").

Edited June 21, 2011 by BethG

[Mom22ns]

Nope. I haven't seen it. I am 5'9" tall and have weighed between 150 and 208 as an adult. I'm athletic and never small, but 150 is quite thin for me. I have experienced no difference in the way I have been treated.

 

Usually people who sit in the back of church do so, so that they can avoid too much contact. You are probably not in the most friendly section. The man who skips you may well skip any woman he doesn't know. Greeting people of other genders is not considered appropriate by some, especially older men. However, if I found a church that unfriendly, I'd find a different church!

 

I'm curious to know how many have shared your experience.

[gardening momma]

Do you hold out your hand to him to shake? Sometimes when people don't hold their hands out, they don't get offered a handshake. Some people attempt anyway, but some don't.

[Ginevra]

I can't account for your experiences, but as a thin person who's pretty much always been some version of thin (i.e., model thin when I was young, thin-for-just-had-a-baby later and thin-for-forty now ;)) I don't judge women as more or less able to be my friend based on how much heavier they are than me. If anything, I could tell you I have sometimes suffered "skinny-bashing" in a group of women - the same women who would be horrified if I made the same remarks about their bodies. I also think the people most likely to be caustic towards overweight women are other overweight women who perceive themselves as "not as fat as her."

 

I am a total introvert and being social is not my first skill, but I still put on a friendly persona when I need it. I feel that I get satisfactory responses to people if I am friendly towards them, so...no, I haven't experienced either the "fat discrimination" vibe or a general unfriendliness in the population.

[LauraGB]

First of all, I'm very sorry you have been treated this way. :grouphug:

 

Second, I can honestly say I have never, ever, once even, considered treating someone poorly or rudely because of their size. If I did, being from the north and all where we like to pad ourselves for winter :D, I would have no friends at all.

[Tohru]

Wow. That is so sad! I'm sorry to hear that. Although I've thought the exact opposite...when I was younger, a lot of women chose not to talk to me because they felt "threatened" by my physical appearance. The majority of my friends were male and I had one female friend who was also extremely attractive. I have always been friendly, never a snob and had tried to be friends with other women, but was generally rejected back then.

 

Now that I'm older and not as outwardly beautiful as I once was, I've found that other women are much more friendly towards me than before.

People are strange.

[eternalknot]

I'm very short, so even a slight weight gain (10-20lbs) looks considerably more on my frame.

 

I was temporarily disabled for a year, and gained 25lbs. Prior to that, I was a petite 95-100lbs unless I was pregnant. For the past six months I've been stuck at 110, which looks on the heavy side of normal for my height (I have a bit of fluff but it looks fine in most clothes - no rolls, muffin top, etc.)

 

I've never been treated better. I was treated differently by women and men both, but particularly by women, at both my highest and my lowest weights. For some reason, my current weight seems to be an ideal as far as social interactions go. Weird.

 

But yes, to the OP of this thread I did notice a difference. Rather, what I noticed was an INdifference - most notably while I was higher in weight. People were less apt to acknowledge me, interact with me, or otherwise pay me attention. When I was at my usual weight, many people would stare or make comments about how I must be anorexic (I'm just petite, and my weight was appropriate for people of my age and ethnicity).

 

I live in the South. I always found their "nice" to be of the phony, condescending variety - throw in a smile and a "sugar" or "honey" and they think anything they say or think is acceptable or cute, and that the judgmental part flew over your head. Generally, anyhow, that's been my experience in the few years I've lived here. Read: I may be biased in how I interpret their reactions to me, whatever my weight is!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have, over the years, heard many hurtful comments that allude to obese people as being less intelligent and having character flaws (like a lack of self control). Some have been on this board, some have been in face-to-face life. It gets worse if someone is morbidly obese. Medically speaking, I am classified as obese. I've heard others on this board say that they've been treated in hurtful ways when they are underweight according to the chart.

 

Usually what people refer to is actual hurtful things that people have come flat out and said. I actually had one relative of dh's say to me as I shook her hand, "You're fat." I just blinked at her with my mouth open in shock. (I thought to say, "And you're rude" but my good breeding intervened.)

 

It's hard to tell sometimes why we are being treated rudely, though when it doesn't come with spoken commentary. It can be for so many reasons - some intentional and some not. I will say too that I've often been treated graciously by people and the reasons for that can be hard to pinpoint too!;)

[Desert Strawberry]

Research shows that people who are slender, well dressed and attractive are attributed better qualities. They are judged to be friendlier, kinder, funnier, more successful, more caring, etc. This is called the Halo Effect. What's good is beautiful, what's beautiful is good.

 

Personally, I have not noticed this in my own life. I'm down 30 pounds from my latest prepregnancy weight. Aside from a lot of compliments on my weight loss, I find I'm being treated about the same as I was last year, when I was at my all-time heaviest. Maybe I haven't experienced enough weight loss ( I still have an extra 30-40 pounds) or maybe it's too recent (only 6 weeks). But so far, I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's because I'm so darn cute, fat or thin :D

Edited June 21, 2011 by strawberrymama

[LauraGB]

I agree with other posters who have mentioned being treated differently for being thin. When I was younger it was highly noticeable, by women mostly, and rude. But now that I am older, people do often throw out "skinny" comments, but even those don't seem ill intended, just ill worded. I'm self conscious about how "skinny" I am, so when people notice it and choose to say something, I have a choice to make; take it personally and wear jeans all summer (as I have spent years doing to avoid comments like that), or laugh and have some smarty pants comeback so I can wear shorts/dresses, too. The laughter and light hearted sarcasm has been the most helpful.

 

But, aside from the occasional comment, I don't think I've been treated differently as an adult because of my size. Maybe it's because I would never be able to treat someone else differently because of theirs that I don't notice it. I don't know.

[JudoMom]

I'm another who has noticed a difference.

 

I'm in no way near thin now--I've got an athletic build, and I'm trying to lose 15 pounds that I've put back on due to health issues. I'll never be thin; my body just isn't created that way.

 

But I spent my 20s obese. In 2006 I lost 85 pounds. I notice a huge difference in how I'm treated now verses how I was treated then. It's almost like I was invisible, even though I took up a lot more space.

[LauraGB]

 

Usually what people refer to is actual hurtful things that people have come flat out and said. I actually had one relative of dh's say to me as I shook her hand, "You're fat." I just blinked at her with my mouth open in shock. (I thought to say, "And you're rude" but my good breeding intervened.)

 

 

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry, Jean. That is rude. Crazy rude. In my father's family, where everyone is overweight or obese, they say things like this to each other all the time. Not just immediate family, either; an extremely overweight great aunt of my father's pointed to my dad at his father's funeral and said, "That's Tommy. The fat one. Over there." :001_huh: I couldn't believe it. She said it so innocently, too, like she didn't mean anything by it. The crazy thing, is that they never seem to take it personally. My father (and many of his family members) consider it a sign of success - that they have enough money to eat well. I guess, on occasion, there are ways to respond and deflect the hurt.

[gardening momma]

I actually had one relative of dh's say to me as I shook her hand, "You're fat." I just blinked at her with my mouth open in shock. (I thought to say, "And you're rude" but my good breeding intervened.)

:blink: I've been trying to teach my dc about what they can say around other people, and what should be reserved for home (mostly questions--someone's size, hair, makeup, clothing, etc...--along with comments about ourselves, things that are private matters). My kids have become aware that I'm trying to lose weight. The other day I was making myself a salad. Dd7 asked me why I was trying to lose weight. Dd5 says, "Because she's fat." Thankfully we were at home.

[cshell]

:bigear:

[Danestress]

older women eventually become socially "invisible" anyway. She says that as a woman ages and greys, people either look right through them or else talk to them like children. My mother is an introvert and isn't really complaining. She's not an attention seeker. But she does notice this and I have heard it from other women too.

 

So yes, I do think that a woman's physical appearance has a bearing on how much others seek her out and solicit her company and conversation. But I think we are all victims of this eventually, and I am not sure how much of a factor weight is.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

The man who skips you may well skip any woman he doesn't know. Greeting people of other genders is not considered appropriate by some, especially older men.

 

Do you hold out your hand to him to shake? Sometimes when people don't hold their hands out, they don't get offered a handshake. Some people attempt anyway, but some don't.

 

It may be old-fashioned, but it is considered rude for a man to initiate a handshake with a woman.

[Peela]

According to my mother older women eventually become socially "invisible" anyway. She says that as a woman ages and greys, people either look right through them or else talk to them like children. My mother is an introvert and isn't really complaining. She's not an attention seeker. But she does notice this and I have heard it from other women too.

 

So yes, I do think that a woman's physical appearance has a bearing on how much others seek her out and solicit her company and conversation. But I think we are all victims of this eventually, and I am not sure how much of a factor weight is.

 

I can really relate to the older women thing- I got a lot of attention when younger and when it dropped off over the years it was a loss I did feel.

However...it is also a freedom to not attract that attention any more, actually. Its something to be embraced and other doors open up. As the baby boomers go through their 50s and 60s, a whole new attitude toward ageing is forming and these people can rock- many will tell you it is the happiest time in their lives. I think times are changing and no longer do people necessarily fade into the background when they hit 50 and become "old". For women anyway, its a time many are freed up from looking after children, and can move into the world and do things.

 

I find in my mid forties now that I am happier with myself, my looks, and just who I am in general, that I ever was before. I am a good weight but am not immune to putting on a few pounds and feeling bad about myself but i haven't been in the OP's situation. I cant answer to the OPs situation, but it always heartens me to see a plump person who is happy and comfortable with themselves. I think it must be difficult- we have more overweight people than ever in our society yet the advertising promotes an unhealthy thinness- two extremes.

 

I do think that even if it is a tendency, personality can overcome it to some extent. It shouldn't have to, of course.

[Cheryl in NM]

I actually noticed the opposite.

 

Back in the day I had beautiful long blonde hair and curves in all the right places. Men ogled me and women hated me.

 

Now, 55# later, with the same beautiful blonde hair but round all the way around people are nice to me. Men are either repulsed or nice and women, if they are nice to others in general, are nice to me.

 

I think it's been part of the struggle of my weight loss. I want people to be nice to me and I don't want to be ogled, of course, who ogles at a 40 year old woman? Am I feeling "old"? lol I guess I'm telling some secrets here! lol I might be struggling with my age as well as my weight! Please tell me my sexiness isn't over for the rest of my life! lol Okay, :chillpill:...:D. I'm better now! :D

[SnowWhite]

I *have* noticed this in my life. I've been very overweight to simply chubby, and when I'm simply chubby I get a lot more respect.

[Heather in WI]

Do you hold out your hand to him to shake?

 

Like someone else mentioned, I believe etiquette, outside of business settings, is that a woman has to offer her hand.

 

I, too, have found that I've been treated differently based on my size. Although the general experience of the board seems to go against this, I think studies have confirmed this.

 

Weight Halo Effects: Individual Differences in Perceived Life Success as a Function of Women's Race and Weight

 

The Stigma of Women's Weight: Social and Economic Realities

 

Psychosocial origins of obesity stigma: toward changing a powerful and pervasive bias

Edited June 22, 2011 by Heather in WI

[PinkInTheBlue]

I can't account for your experiences, but as a thin person who's pretty much always been some version of thin (i.e., model thin when I was young, thin-for-just-had-a-baby later and thin-for-forty now ;)) I don't judge women as more or less able to be my friend based on how much heavier they are than me. If anything, I could tell you I have sometimes suffered "skinny-bashing" in a group of women - the same women who would be horrified if I made the same remarks about their bodies. I also think the people most likely to be caustic towards overweight women are other overweight women who perceive themselves as "not as fat as her."

I feel that I get satisfactory responses to people if I am friendly towards them, so...no, I haven't experienced either the "fat discrimination" vibe or a general unfriendliness in the population.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm amazed at the blatant rudeness people don't hesitate to show if someone is "skinny". The "skinny-bashing" is sickening and ... well, just amazing. I've even seen it SO many times on this board. Nobody would ever type parallel comments about "fat" people the way they don't hesitate about "skinny" people.

 

I definitely notice that the more I initiate direct, smiling eye-contact the more I get a similar response. I assume people who are rude to me are rude to everyone. I assume it has nothing to do with my size, hair color, eye color, or etc. But, hey, what do I know? ;)

[Ohdanigirl]

Imagine having an hour glass figure and enormous books...at 12. I had people actually ask my parents if had had a b00b job. :001_huh: Moms would tell their kids I was easy based on my figure. Women, in general were not friendly towards me and the males were usually nice for the wrong reasons. It even happens today. Gaining weight actually resulted in nicer people, as long as it wasn't too much weight. Since it was mentioned, I will add that people in the South were the nicest.

[Scarlett]

older women eventually become socially "invisible" anyway. She says that as a woman ages and greys, people either look right through them or else talk to them like children. My mother is an introvert and isn't really complaining. She's not an attention seeker. But she does notice this and I have heard it from other women too.

 

So yes, I do think that a woman's physical appearance has a bearing on how much others seek her out and solicit her company and conversation. But I think we are all victims of this eventually, and I am not sure how much of a factor weight is.

 

I definitely have noticed a change in how I am viewed. I have never been overweight, but when I've been really thin I get more attention in general.

 

I've also noticed becoming invisible to men as I age. I feel the loss---seems so much of my identity (even though I didn't ever realize it) was tied up in my appearance. However, as someone else mentioned there is a nice freedom that comes with that.

[Danestress]

I agree with you. The 40s can bring a lot of freedom to a woman. So far, so good despite the funky skin and greying hair!

[Lilymax]

I've always been various degrees of "heavy" and have noticed fat bias, but...in social situations like the OP mentioned, I've found that continuing to try to reach out usually works. I don't know why people are so closed these days, but it seems to be more and more common. At the end of the day, you usually find that most people just want someone to listen to them--and if you're a good listener, you'll end up having loads of friends--but some shells are very tough to crack! And some people won't open up no matter what. But I see that as a reflection of them, not me. :)

 

I recently wrote a newspaper column about some of these issues. Read it here: http://www.kariapted.com/column-the-beauty-of-aging/

 

:)