Sometimes I wonder (another religion thread, brought to you by Aubrey)

[Avila]

I wish we did live a little closer because my church does offer childcare or I would just volunteer to watch your kids while you go.

 

I am sorry this whole thing has been so frustrating for you. :grouphug:

[KristinaBreece]

Oh, and also, my DH was baptized in a river--an ACTUAL river. He doesn't have a written record of it, but you can imagine the look on the face of the priest when he said it.:lol: It'd been funny to get some sort of record of THAT!

 

That's so funny-- I grew up Freewill Baptist. I didn't know until very recently that it was out of the ordinary for people to be baptized in rivers. When I took a trip to Jordan with my Symphonic Band during college, a lot of the students got re-baptized in order to be able to say they had been baptized in the Jordan. I was :confused: because I don't believe a second baptism is ever really called for. (Not sure where I stand on infant baptism in the grand scheme.) God is God is God, whether you're in a baptismal pool or a river... or wherever you happen to be.

 

ETA: I do have a certificate of baptism. The clerk of the church always kept records of events like baptisms & baby dedications.

Edited May 17, 2011 by KristinaBreece

[Aubrey]

Whaddaya know? I called the church, & they've got the record. The secretary even remembered me & was only sorry that she couldn't have the preacher who baptized me sign the certificate because he's recently passed away. :(

 

But they're sending it. I wish she hadn't asked if we were still attending a CoC...I hate to disappoint people...

[katilac]

Aubrey, I would just go ahead and check on the baptismal record, so you know one way or the other. I googled "church of christ baptismal records," and several results popped up on the first page, so it seems like at least some of them do keep records. At any rate, you would know, and have that info (or lack thereof) at the ready.

 

 

Am I reading this correctly? You went to an informational meeting at a church. The church has no childcare for the services so your kids couldn't go to the services?

 

If the kids were in childcare during servicers, wouldn't THAT mean they couldn't go to services? :D I know lots of people are accustomed to the kids being in childcare or children's church while the adults are at the main service, but many churches have families worship together. The kids aren't excluded, they are right there with the parents.

[unsinkable]

Aubrey, I would just go ahead and check on the baptismal record, so you know one way or the other. I googled "church of christ baptismal records," and several results popped up on the first page, so it seems like at least some of them do keep records. At any rate, you would know, and have that info (or lack thereof) at the ready.

 

 

 

 

If the kids were in childcare during servicers, wouldn't THAT mean they couldn't go to services? :D I know lots of people are accustomed to the kids being in childcare or children's church while the adults are at the main service, but many churches have families worship together. The kids aren't excluded, they are right there with the parents.

 

That's why I love MY church. All ages are welcome/encouraged at Mass.

 

A priest once said he loves to hear babies and children at Mass, even if they're fussing. It tells him 2 things: People are having babies and people are bringing kids to Mass.

[mommaduck]

That's why I love MY church. All ages are welcome/encouraged at Mass.

 

A priest once said he loves to hear babies and children at Mass, even if they're fussing. It tells him 2 things: People are having babies and people are bringing kids to Mass.

 

We feel the same about Divine Liturgy. I've heard stories of little ones escaping their parents and either ending up next to the priest or in the arms of another person. I know my little ones will sometimes disappear and I know they may have found or been beckoned by their godparents. Yiayias will often be seen with a grandchild (my children don't have grandparents in the church, but they do have godparents). Children are seen as beloved, not as "to be seen and not heard".

[Teachin'Mine]

I know that in the Catholic Church the proof of baptism is important because the Church recognizes all Christian baptisms and won't "repeat" that sacrament if it's already received.

 

Glad to hear you're able to get the paperwork, but sorry to hear your pastor recently passed away. :grouphug:

 

All the hassles will be worth it in the end. :grouphug:

[unsinkable]

We feel the same about Divine Liturgy. I've heard stories of little ones escaping their parents and either ending up next to the priest or in the arms of another person. I know my little ones will sometimes disappear and I know they may have found or been beckoned by their godparents. Yiayias will often be seen with a grandchild (my children don't have grandparents in the church, but they do have godparents). Children are seen as beloved, not as "to be seen and not heard".

 

:grouphug:

 

Now I'm weepy. A good weepy. :)

[Aubrey]

On the childcare issue, the answer was that they "don't" have it, not that there aren't any options for it. When we had kids of attendees in some of our classes, we didn't have childcare, either. The kids just sat in the room on a rug and played with Legos they brought. It wasn't a big deal for either us or the kids. As people got to know one another, babysitting options appeared among the parishioners.

 

I think I may have been misleading in my OP...this is not for regular worship services. For that, I understand the array of POVs on childcare & really don't expect anything one way or another.

 

This is for a class about the faith, discussing nitty-gritty issues of the denomination. Something that would not always be appropriate for dc. Honestly, if we wanted to just come & bring our dc, I hope they would not allow it.

[Aubrey]

I apologize. I should have kept quiet.

 

I can't imagine that you're apologizing to me, but I can't figure out who else it would be. PJ, I think you're wonderful. I don't think you have ever written a *word* that would bother (much less offend) ANYONE.

 

What you said about EO worship services is beautiful--I just wanted to clarify that that wasn't what I was talking about.

 

Now...if you're not talking to me, then...oops. ;)

 

But as far as I'm concerned, I hope you never, never keep quiet. Even if I'm not EO, I love to hear what you have to say & to be inspired by your walk.

[rwjx2khsmj]

I had the amazing experience of worshipping and receiving communion/eucharist in St. Paul's Cathedral and Westminster Abbey this past week. It was WONDERFUL! I was not dressed for the occassion. I didn't have to show proof of anything except a willingness to be present. I had no clue when to stand or sit. I managed to follow the service reasonably well, most of the time. The great thing was that no one cared. They were all there in awe and wonder, just like me.

 

If only I could find a church a little closer to home that felt the same. With childcare, of course!:lol:

[FrogMom5]

Aubrey,

 

I don't have any solutions for you. Your search is such a struggle for you and I wish I could make it easier. If you lived closer, you could come to my church classes. You can bring your children to everything here.

 

When my dd was a baby, I went into the training room. Later, our Priest stopped me and gently told me to just stay in Mass w/dd.

 

Well, I don't know if you are interested in my church and you live about

1 1/2 days drive away, so it's not realistic. So :grouphug:. I hope you find what you are looking for soon.

 

Denise

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I tell ya, some days I feel I *really* live on a different planet...

 

I have never heard of childcare being offered at church or elsewhere. Naw, not true, sometimes my church will offer childcare for certain activities, but it's rare. And any other activity such as parents meetings at school, or whatever, - really anything, not religion-related - would not offer childcare.

 

Parents here are expected to have access to baby sitters at home, and not bring their kids everywhere. I'm not saying I agree with this, just that it's the societal norm. I would never ever expect a church (or a school, or an office, or...) to offer childcare.

 

Sigh, one more aspect where I differ from you all :tongue_smilie:

[*Inna*]

Strange about the wanting "proof of baptism". I've never heard of such.

:iagree: I must be living a sheltered life.

I was baptized in a lake. How do you "proof" that?

[justamouse]

Huh. My rectory just asked if I was baptized, they didn't care for proof. I mean, I had it, but they never asked.

 

Aub, sorry if I offended with my joke. I was punchy, chocolated and sugared up and overtired.

[QueenCat]

Have you heard the saying "Pick your bunch of sinners and hang with them. And while you’re at it, build up the body you’re hanging with."?

 

 

I haven't heard that one but I really like it!

[Swirl]

Are we allowed to post Youtube links? (If not, someone let me know quick and I will remove it.)

 

DH and I just watched this a couple of days ago. Sadly, it hit a little close to home.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2011 by Swirl

[Aubrey]

Huh. My rectory just asked if I was baptized, they didn't care for proof. I mean, I had it, but they never asked.

 

Aub, sorry if I offended with my joke. I was punchy, chocolated and sugared up and overtired.

 

Why do you guys keep thinking I'm offended? I don't remember your joke at this point, but...:confused: This thread seems really mild to me. I'm not offended by anyone (up to this point). :lol:

[Starr]

If this is a place you still want to seriously consider I would ask the pastor is childcare could be provided for the class. Sometimes these things are overlooked but can happen. I would not talk about it with said organizational woman.

[Aubrey]

I tell ya, some days I feel I *really* live on a different planet...

 

I have never heard of childcare being offered at church or elsewhere. Naw, not true, sometimes my church will offer childcare for certain activities, but it's rare. And any other activity such as parents meetings at school, or whatever, - really anything, not religion-related - would not offer childcare.

 

Parents here are expected to have access to baby sitters at home, and not bring their kids everywhere. I'm not saying I agree with this, just that it's the societal norm. I would never ever expect a church (or a school, or an office, or...) to offer childcare.

 

Sigh, one more aspect where I differ from you all :tongue_smilie:

 

See...I find this embarrassing, like I was asking for something huge or putting someone out or something. I *had* to ask--I couldn't just assume there was no childcare.

 

This was a year-long class, meeting 3+ hours/week. That would cost around $40/wk in childcare. Besides not knowing anyone to do that, we absolutely cannot afford it. That essentially means that in order to become a part of this religion, we'd have to spend over $1400 in childcare.

 

I think that the point is...for an optional one-time function, it's very different. You can choose not to go. From some perspectives, this is not something I could choose not to do *at all.* Now...I don't feel that attached to any particular denomination, so I don't feel condemned to hell if I don't figure out a way to pay for the childcare, lol, but the implications are very different, imo, than if I simply wanted to go to a PTA meeting or something.

 

Fwiw, I don't *expect* a church to offer childcare for anything, but there are times when that will make the difference between whether or not I'll be able to attend something. That's fine w/ me--it's not like childcare is free to the church or fun for people to offer. I'd just rather not feel embarrassed to even ask. And...I'd rather they not act shocked or offended or something when people can't attend something if there's not an option for their kids.

 

Another thing--if they'd scheduled these classes differently, there would be other classes for the kids to attend & childcare would be either unnecessary or less necessary. But they chose to offer adult classes at two time slots, both required, neither coinciding w/ kid time slots.

 

One man asked about his work schedule. The presenter told him there was an online version of the class that he could take if absolutely necessary, but she discouraged it because a) part of the point is building community, & b) she didn't want him to incur any unnecessary costs. The online version is $52. :lol: Compared to childcare, that's a drop in the bucket.

 

But really...there was something else. I got a distinct vibe that she was mad at us. It could be paranoia, but after keeping dh up all night w/ my worries & what-if's, I think the problem may be that I mentioned the Baptist seminary dh was recently attending.

 

She was asking if the kids had any religious education or if we'd ever been in church at all. I was trying to answer her, but she kept asking, so I mentioned that dh had been attending the seminary for the last 3 years.

 

I have a big mouth. Keeping secrets has never made much sense to me. I thought the meeting was going to be more personal, getting-to-know you kind of thing. :001_huh: I just...left wanting to cry. I'm an introvert w/ a big mouth, & going to meetings & seeing people takes a lot of courage, & so then...well...it's just not worth it.

[Melinda in VT]

See...I find this embarrassing, like I was asking for something huge or putting someone out or something. I *had* to ask--I couldn't just assume there was no childcare.

 

This was a year-long class, meeting 3+ hours/week. That would cost around $40/wk in childcare. Besides not knowing anyone to do that, we absolutely cannot afford it. That essentially means that in order to become a part of this religion, we'd have to spend over $1400 in childcare.

 

 

 

Please keep in mind that I hang out on the far liberal fringes of Christianity, so I apologize if my suggestion seems too strange for the Denomination that Shall Not Be Named (I'm really curious, btw).

 

Disclaimer aside, is there any reason why you can't participate in this church without taking the class right now? Hopefully, your financial situation will improve to the point where paying for childcare would be easy. :) Barring that, once you've been there for a while and they are all dying to see you become official members, I bet someone will find a way to make childcare available for you.

[tex-mex]

I think I want sympathy. I think I want y'all to tell me to give up, stay home, & thumb my nose at people of faith. But then that wouldn't make any sense, & I'd argue w/ you, & in arguing w/ you, I'd realize the irony of arguing, feel sheepish, & eventually try again. In another 10 years. :glare:

 

But you know, if you have a better idea of what to tell me, feel free. :lol::lurk5:

I'm kinda of in the same camp as you are, Aubrey. :grouphug:

 

A friend posted this witty FB post. I figured you needed a chuckle. :D

 

SIMILARITIES Between the Gym & Church

 

1) One might feel intimidated if they haven't been for a while.

2) You don't know protocol or where anything is.

3) The regulars have their routines.

4) No one is perfect even though a few may think are.

5) There are always new faces.

6) Getting there is 90% of the battle.

7) You feel better (usually) after you start going.

8) Don't worry about what others think of you, most are wondering if you'll notice them

9) If you aren't growing or see little results, it could be a lack of effort on your part, or you've become accustomed to the same old routine.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would talk with the pastor. Maybe you and your husband could do the course online and then meet with him every so often, at a more convenient time, to discuss things. I wouldn't choose to participate or not based on that one woman who "runs" the class. Sorry you've had a difficult intro.

[Aubrey]

I would talk with the pastor. Maybe you and your husband could do the course online and then meet with him every so often' date=' at a more convenient time, to discuss things. I wouldn't choose to participate or not based on that one woman who "runs" the class. Sorry you've had a difficult intro.[/quote']

 

It's not a particular church I care about; I chose this one because it had the soonest calendar-date for a meeting w/in a 30m radius. :lol:

 

Everything else is an hour away or doesn't have classes until Sept. Since our lease is up in Sept & we're having a baby in Oct, I guess that means it will be Sept 2012 before we can try again.

 

Not very inspiring, that.

[Aubrey]

I'm kinda of in the same camp as you are, Aubrey. :grouphug:

 

A friend posted this witty FB post. I figured you needed a chuckle. :D

 

SIMILARITIES Between the Gym & Church

 

1) One might feel intimidated if they haven't been for a while.

2) You don't know protocol or where anything is.

3) The regulars have their routines.

4) No one is perfect even though a few may think are.

5) There are always new faces.

6) Getting there is 90% of the battle.

7) You feel better (usually) after you start going.

8) Don't worry about what others think of you, most are wondering if you'll notice them

9) If you aren't growing or see little results, it could be a lack of effort on your part, or you've become accustomed to the same old routine.

 

I thought at first you meant ps gym & it was going to be about being chosen last. :lol:

[Aubrey]

Please keep in mind that I hang out on the far liberal fringes of Christianity, so I apologize if my suggestion seems too strange for the Denomination that Shall Not Be Named (I'm really curious, btw).

 

Disclaimer aside, is there any reason why you can't participate in this church without taking the class right now? Hopefully, your financial situation will improve to the point where paying for childcare would be easy. :) Barring that, once you've been there for a while and they are all dying to see you become official members, I bet someone will find a way to make childcare available for you.

 

I've read the first part of your post at least 3x now, gone to check my email, & come back & read it again. I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you posted earlier in the thread, but I've read every response & really don't remember anything strange or offensive. And the post of mine that you're quoting was clearly directed toward Cleo's comment. :confused:

 

As to the second part...I don't know how. I've tried at other churches of a similar denomination, & we just couldn't meet/get to know people. Outside of church, everyone we meet belongs to this denomination. Inside the church? They don't get to know ea other like the Baptists do!

 

So just attending wouldn't do it, I don't think. The one we used to live near did not have any other fellowship opportunities, but that might be something to look for at places near here.

 

But then...if we're moving in a few months...having a baby...maybe meeting new people is just too much trouble right now.

[tex-mex]

I thought at first you meant ps gym & it was going to be about being chosen last. :lol:

Oooh. :lol: That's an even better comparasion! Oh my. LOL ;)

[Melinda in VT]

I've read the first part of your post at least 3x now, gone to check my email, & come back & read it again. I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you posted earlier in the thread, but I've read every response & really don't remember anything strange or offensive. And the post of mine that you're quoting was clearly directed toward Cleo's comment. :confused:

 

Oh dear. Clearly my brain is even more fried than I thought and I am making no sense at all.

 

I was just prefacing my upcoming suggestion (the second paragraph) with a disclaimer because sometimes I think my religious background makes things that seem normal to me seem heretical to others. So if the second part didn't fit your situation, fell free to ignore. (I am curious to know which denomination you're talking about, and you seem to be deliberately not naming it, which makes me more curious, hence what was supposed to be a joking play on Voldemort from Harry Potter.) :tongue_smilie: Really, not important and I apologize for confusing you.

 

As to the second part...I don't know how. I've tried at other churches of a similar denomination, & we just couldn't meet/get to know people. Outside of church, everyone we meet belongs to this denomination. Inside the church? They don't get to know ea other like the Baptists do!

 

So just attending wouldn't do it, I don't think. The one we used to live near did not have any other fellowship opportunities, but that might be something to look for at places near here.

 

But then...if we're moving in a few months...having a baby...maybe meeting new people is just too much trouble right now.

 

Ah. I think I misunderstood the point of your participation in the class. I thought you needed to take the class so you could officially join, but it sounds like you want to take the class as a way to get to know people?

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

it had the soonest calendar-date for a meeting w/in a 30m radius. :lol:

 

Again, me and my other planet... What? She expects a church within 30 meters of her house??? 30 METERS???

 

and then I realized you meant miles... :D

[Aubrey]

Oh dear. Clearly my brain is even more fried than I thought and I am making no sense at all.

 

I was just prefacing my upcoming suggestion (the second paragraph) with a disclaimer because sometimes I think my religious background makes things that seem normal to me seem heretical to others. So if the second part didn't fit your situation, fell free to ignore. (I am curious to know which denomination you're talking about, and you seem to be deliberately not naming it, which makes me more curious, hence what was supposed to be a joking play on Voldemort from Harry Potter.) :tongue_smilie: Really, not important and I apologize for confusing you.

 

LOL! Then I guess I'm joining the bandwagon of people thinking they've offended someone on this thread--I thought I'd refused some advice you'd given & was quite snippy in my refusal! Glad to know it wasn't that.

 

Ah. I think I misunderstood the point of your participation in the class. I thought you needed to take the class so you could officially join, but it sounds like you want to take the class as a way to get to know people?

 

Yeah, I guess it's really both. I hadn't thought about it.

[Aubrey]

Again, me and my other planet... What? She expects a church within 30 meters of her house??? 30 METERS???

 

and then I realized you meant miles... :D

 

:lol::lol:

 

No, actually, meters would be great! :D

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

:lol::lol:

 

No, actually, meters would be great! :D

 

I don't even have a mailbox within 30 meters of my house.. But if you find a church within that distance, you won't have such a need for daycare!!! :lol:

[Brigitte]

I know all the mainline denominations keep records. (Or I'm learning that they probably do.) I was raised Church of Christ. I really, really don't think they keep anything like that. There was no certificate, no witness (except my mom), no announcement at church, NOTHING. We met the pastor on a weekday morning.

 

Sure, I could ask. I think I remember the name of the place. It might even still be there. I'd be shocked if they can do anything.

 

ETA: I didn't feel weird--an informational meeting is easy. I just can't continue to go 2x/week+ w/ 4 dc.

 

I am RC and I know they will take a letter written from a "witness" as proof of a sacrament being performed. I had my first communion in Belgium, my mother's uncle was a priest and he did it during Mass. We have no certificate from that and even if we did, it would be in Flemish. A written note from my mother giving the date and location was all they needed some 34 years later, so that I could have my confirmation.

 

As for the childcare issue, they have childcare for RCIA at our parish. So, your question was not unreasonable. (Not that I am assuming your are looking at the RC church...)

 

You will find the right church eventually. It just might take some searching and driving.

[oraetstudia]

When we converted from the Church of Christ to Catholicism, neither my husband nor I had proof of baptism (and really couldn't go ask my husband's preacher dad, who had baptized both of us, for a certificate on the matter, since our conversion was a sore point to say the least). We decided to have a conditional baptism, which is not re-baptism, because if it was done correctly (with the Trinitarian formula) the first time, you just are getting wet with a little holy water. However, since we had no paperwork nor proof that my FIL had used the proper Trinitarian formula, the priest did the conditional baptism.

[Twilight Woods]

After years of searching I have finally found a church that "fits" me. I usually have to dust the cob webs outta my brain b/c I have been on the sidelines of religion for so long...but I am slowly immersing myself. I think what helped me is the church is new. small congregation. I don't feel overwhelmed or that I am being judged by people that have no business judging me.

 

:grouphug:

[Heather in WI]

I'll tell ya: I'm disappointed. My feelings are hurt. I don't care that they didn't offer childcare--it would have been nice, & w/out it, I can't afford to be one of them, but hey... What hurts is saying NO, there's no childcare as if I were rude to ask. By the time it was my turn to ask a question, I could already tell what the answer was going to be, & so I was already embarrassed, but what am I going to do??

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry this happened. It was not rude to ask! Gosh!

 

To even go to an informational meeting is like making a deal w/ the devil to some people in our family. (It's not; it's still Christian; I don't want to leave anyone thinking I'm making actual deals w/ the devil.) :lol:

 

This made me :lol:

 

I think I want sympathy. I think I want y'all to tell me to give up, stay home, & thumb my nose at people of faith.

 

You absolutely get my sympathy, but, nope, no encouragement in staying home. :) It took us a couple painful, awkward years to find our church home. It was definitely worth the process. Please, don't give up. :grouphug:

[katilac]

How do you feel about simply attending the church for a while, and doing some research/learning on your own? You can always do the classes later if you decide to convert.

[Hannah C.]

:grouphug: I'm sorry this is an issue for you. I'm kind of wondering now how close you live to where I am..we're on the more Ft Worth side of Dallas County, and I know a little bit about churches. (I'm also super curious about which denomination this is, lol - but at the same time I like that you're not saying.)

 

I'm going to start RCIA tonight (yay!), and they told me I could bring my 3mo-old. It's also not nearly as structured as some others I've heard of. If I couldn't bring my baby I couldn't go. Then again, there's only one of her and she's so little, I can get away with bringing her most places.

 

:grouphug: I hope you find a church home soon.