Guest Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Would you join a den that had 3-5 kids in it? What size is the average? We are supposed to go visit a pack meeting tonight and I just found out that the den my son would be entering for summer only currently has 3 boys in it. Obviously, they'll be moving up and new kids moving in, but this is a newer pack, and I like things to be established. (I'm really funny about it.) I understand that people need to join in order for them to grow, but for me, and my house, we like established things. (We've had some bad experiences, 'nuff said.) I am assuming that most dens have a lot more than 3 kids? I would love to know an average size and if you would join a smaller/newer club like this. Thanks! (And I really tried to get my terms right - pack is the entire group and den is just my son's age group, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 3 is small - but you'd be making it 4 :) Average dens run about 5-6 boys. Any bigger is too big! Well - maybe Webelos dens can be bigger - but the younger Scouts, not so much. Packs will, at times, combine dens if they get too small. I'd say 4 is right on the edge of too small - but can work well depending on the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 3 is small - but you'd be making it 4 :)Average dens run about 5-6 boys. Any bigger is too big! Well - maybe Webelos dens can be bigger - but the younger Scouts, not so much. Packs will, at times, combine dens if they get too small. I'd say 4 is right on the edge of too small - but can work well depending on the boys. Well, those 3 are moving up... :tongue_smilie: I'm assuming more will join, though! (I hope!) This is good to know, I won't rule them out, then. Thanks....listening if anyone else has input, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Our den has only 3 boys. I think it is too small. 5-6 is perfect for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 My son's den currently has 6 kids, but only 4 are true regulars; the other two show up sporadically, but have done so consistently for three years now. I like the size. It's neither too many, nor too few for the projects and gatherings we do. Our first year we had about 9 boys, and it seemed like so many. I'm sure their age (1st graders!) played a role in that feeling, too! We've had a few meetings with just 3 kids, and those ran fairly well. I don't think it'd be ideal to have only three, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker. I'd be more wary if it were a newer den/pack, just because it could shrink even more if someone dropped out - but that happens in established packs, too. I'd chance it :D. Oh, and yes - the den would be the grade-related smaller group, and the pack would be the all-dens-combined larger group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Sometimes small is better because you can go more and do more complicated stuff. There tends to be less time spent on crowd control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen3kids Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Den - each group of boys (Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos 1 and Webelos 2) Pack - all the Dens When my younger ds joined Cub Scouts a few years ago, there were only 4 boys in his Den. He was the 5th. Since then, one boy has left and two more have joined so now there are 6. It's a great size. As far as the Pack, it was well-established, so I can't attest to that. I think it depends on how much you want to put into it. A new Pack is going to be looking for help and there will be growing pains. However, you have the chance to make it what you want it to be. Good luck with your decision. We love Scouts in this house (Boys and Girls). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Absolutely. 1. I'd think that a newer, not yet established pack would be all gung ho and eager and excited and might be even more fun and creative than one that's been possibly stagnating for a while. 2. I'd think that the kids would possibly be more likely to really get to know each other, to become close, to get attention, to learn, etc. Less time spent on goofing off and so on. 3. Like you said, people need to join in order for it to grow. You'd be helping it grow. And the next parent to come along will see it's 4-6 kids instead of 3-5 and maybe they'd be more likely to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I am an asaistant den leader in bears and we have 13. It's WAY too big. I thought of pishing for 2 dens in the fall and wimped out. I think 5-6 active, energetic kids that mesh well would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thanks guys, I'm a little more excited to go tonight and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 In Cub Scouts your boy will move up too, even if he didn't have time to earn the badge for that level. Cub Scouts move up based on grade level, not accomplishments. The den my hub and I lead, Wolves, has only had four boys for most of this year. We've had so. much. fun. with these boys. Four is a good number. :D If everyone returned last fall we were looking at 14 Wolves. We split it into two dens, then the families rearranged a bit. It's worked out very well. We're about to move away from this awesome pack. *sniff* Another dad is taking over our den, but keeping just the three boys. They'll get new kids in the fall. My older ds had 12 boys in his Webelos den. That was a bit much at times, but they also had a blast together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakereese Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I am an asaistant den leader in bears and we have 13. It's WAY too big. I thought of pishing for 2 dens in the fall and wimped out. I think 5-6 active, energetic kids that mesh well would be ideal. I think we have 14 this year, and it is WAY too big. They were going to split up into 2 groups, but too many people complained. :glare: Of course the same people are now complaining that it is out of control. I'm hoping to find a hs group next year, I think it will be a better fit for us. But I think small is better!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliya Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think smaller is better. If Adam's Tiger Den had been smaller, he may have stuck with it. He hated it because the kids were WAY out of control, the poor den leader was trying so hard to keep them focused, and the parents did pretty much NOTHING to control their kids. Adam ended up on the bottom of a "pile-on" with a bunch of kids he barely knew. He calmly looked up at me from the bottom of the pile and said "This is why I hate this." I'm still holding out a ray of hope that he'll want to join Scouts when he's in 6th grade, but it's not looking too promising... Eric's Boy Scout troop is on the smaller side (around 20 boys) and it's great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Small = good. Big = out of control. Like previous posters, that's been our experience. Do you plan to be part of the leadership for the den? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Absolutely, as I'm sure more boys will join. Our Wolf den is 13 boys, but it is led by a former special education teacher (my dh) and his assistant is a gym teacher. It is a delight (we hold the den meetings in my dining room and kitchen.) Every boy comes to almost every meeting, both Den and Pack, so it's great that they all get to know each other so well. I believe the official best den size is 5-6 boys or 6-8 boys, per the Scouts. Edited March 24, 2011 by angela in ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Island Academy Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I have been a den leader for four years and my den currently has 6 boys, which is a perfect size group I think. Last year I had 10 and it was too big. Too many boys to keep focused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talexand Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I have led Wolves, Bears, then Tigers, Wolves, and Bears again. I like about 6 boys but 4 is a great start for a Tiger den. I have led a Tiger den of 3 and it was small but I recuited more boys each year and ended up with 7 by Bears. I would go check it out with two things in mind. 1. How well is the den organized and led? and 2. What can I add to make it even better? Remember, it is a volunteer effort and a lot of work for the den leader. If the other parents pitch in it is a lot more fun for the den leader and a lot more opportunities for the boys. I have managed to pass off leadership to dads in both cases at the webelos level. My younger son is a webelos I this year and I went in last week and taughts Newton's laws and set off water rockets with the boys. I plan on finishing up their scientist badge with them over the next couple of meetings. I think this is a perfect way to run a den. The den leader provides the schedule, structure, ceremony, and leadership, and the other parents come in and work with the boys in the areas of the their strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahRah Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I lead a den of Tiger cubs and we started with 7 boys (including my son) :w00t: One boy dropped out after a couple of weeks, so we're now six Tigers - they're a handful, but our den size is great because it's enough boys for them all to have fun, but still small enough to manage them when they're being silly six (and some now turning seven)! We'll continue with our meetings through the summer (not all dens do this, but our den is awesome and all the parents get along, so we opted to go through summer too) - and then keep going next year once school starts. We've notified the pack that in the fall we can consider up to 2 more boys if new scouts need a den placement. My assistant and I figure we can manage up to 8 boys next year since we have experience now and they'll be a bit older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RahRah Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I have managed to pass off leadership to dads in both cases at the webelos level. My younger son is a webelos I this year and I went in last week and taughts Newton's laws and set off water rockets with the boys. I plan on finishing up their scientist badge with them over the next couple of meetings. I think this is a perfect way to run a den. The den leader provides the schedule, structure, ceremony, and leadership, and the other parents come in and work with the boys in the areas of the their strength. :iagree: I do the same thing.....my assistant is the big-goof with the boys, I'm the uber-planner - together, we work well, the boys get to do a ton of cool things and the parents are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogMom5 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When we first moved here, the closest troop & pack were quite small. After looking at another troop, my ds chose the smaller one. It's been good for him to see how an organization does and does not grow. He has experienced first hand the mistakes organizations can make and learned from them. He has learned lessons that I couldn't teach him at home. The troop and pack are now fair sized. Because my oldest was in on the ground floor (so to speak), he's better able to lead. Some of the boys don't really understand why certain things are important or why you need to follow set standards so closely. That's partly a maturity thing but I do believe the experience helped ds understand better how organizations work. I hope you find what you're looking for in a troop. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 My dh and I took over a struggling Pack last year. My Tiger den started off with my son and one other boy until I recruited another homeschooled boy. I now have six active boys in my den and it's a great size. Last years Wolf den started off with one boy and now has three. The Bear den only had one boy and it now has four boys. Packs often need to go through a rebuilding program and if they have a good program they will grow, but there are advantages to small dens and Packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 My Wolf den has 13 boys ! The rare times they are all there it is, uh, busy. (They all attended the Blue and Gold tonight having earned their Wolf badges and I must say they were quite good.) I require a certain number of parents to stay depending on the numbers. But in the fall and spring, we have a lot of boys miss because of soccer and baseball, so the average at a meeting is more like 7-8 then, very manageable. So to answer your question - 4 would seem really small to me, especially in a week where 1 or 2 are missing for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I would be more willing to join a small, well run pack/den than join a larger, more chaotic one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 We got back from our meeting awhile go and it went great! We were really pleased with the group and organization. My dh even is interested in being the Tiger leader! Wow! Thank you all, I never would have thought smaller was better, but it makes sense now! I think smaller is better. If Adam's Tiger Den had been smaller, he may have stuck with it. He hated it because the kids were WAY out of control, the poor den leader was trying so hard to keep them focused, and the parents did pretty much NOTHING to control their kids. Adam ended up on the bottom of a "pile-on" with a bunch of kids he barely knew. He calmly looked up at me from the bottom of the pile and said "This is why I hate this." I'm still holding out a ray of hope that he'll want to join Scouts when he's in 6th grade, but it's not looking too promising... Eric's Boy Scout troop is on the smaller side (around 20 boys) and it's great. Thanks, D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliya Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 He'd be so great at this. Let me know if it happens. :) We got back from our meeting awhile go and it went great! We were really pleased with the group and organization. My dh even is interested in being the Tiger leader! Wow! Thank you all, I never would have thought smaller was better, but it makes sense now! Thanks, D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Heck! You guys obviously have a completely different structure. I was going to say no way to 3 kids before I read all your answers. Our Scout Troop has 35 kids, divided into 5 patrols, which must be a bit like dens I guess but are across the age ranges, so there you go, learn something new and all that. I would say that the things that would affect my choice would be leadership and resources available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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