Do You Use a Math Curriculum?

[mom2bee]

Emphasis on the word 'curriculum'. Do you? I don't mean a small workbook or daily worksheets for practice, I mean a step by step math curriculum? Do you know anyone who does'nt use a math curriculum and their children have done well in the later years with math?

 

I want to start ReaderBoy and LilGuy on a Math program, but we haven't had success with most of the curriculum we've tried beyond basic addition and subtraction (under 10) and the attitude towards math is starting to sour for my 1st graders. Personally, I hit a massive road block with math in the 3rd grade at 7yos and stumbled and stagnated mathematically for a long, long, time. I worry that ReaderBoy is hitting his massive road block much earlier and LilGuy isn't getting math on paper at all. I'd like to find a way to nip this in the bud, and help them blossom mathematically. ReadeyBoy gets math outside the context of a mathbook. LilGuy say's he likes numbers alot, he's very good with patterns, he wants me to teach him math too. I want to help them both understand arithmetic via manipulatives and slowly ease them back into Texts/workbooks once the learnings done.

 

We would use pen and paper resources and we'd use them a lot. But not for the teaching and early practicing bits of learning. For the first several days, we'd do problems (from the textbook) and just record the answers after solving with the manipulatives.

 

I can't afford anything right now. Not even the paper and ink to print MEP. I repeat: I can not afford anything. We're going to have to get creative and actually use up everything we've got on hand (which is actually quite a bit, really. I shouldn't say it's all worthless. It isn't, I think it just needs to be adapted to our needs instead of trying to adapt the kids to it.) and then go from there starting next year. Which is why I'm asking around here. I can't afford anything. I just want to make sure that it is very clear right now, I can't afford anything. I'm laminating the home made flashcards with packing tape and using masking tape for spanish cards I'm making out of cereal boxes okay? I'm really, really broke. Money is so tight the budget is strangling us.

 

I'm assessing my 3rd and 1st graders now and I wan't to focus on simply Arithmetic and basic fractions. (No geometry, time, measurement, etc) Just (+, -, * and /) and a strong understanding of fractions. We're learning to tell time and measure via real life and I have yet to find a reasonable way or reason to teach basic geometry to young children who know their shapes but couldn't care less about polygons, angles, what have you.

 

For my 1st graders, we're going to work on counting, skip counting, place value, number bonds to 20, fact families to 15, basic fractions. The goal I'm thinking of is being able to do addition and subtraction on 4 digit numbers with high accuracy by the end of the year.

 

For my 3rd grader, we're going to cement all those foundational bits that I feel should be on auto recall and continue to work on operations with fractions. When she can answer 100 arithmetic problems in 90 seconds with perfect accuracy, and 75 fraction operations in 3 minutes with perfect accuracy, I plan on helping her begin learning some basic algebra stuff because she wants to learn something new in math, but she doesn't enjoy the typical 'tangents' that most math books have.

 

She's interested and I feel she's capable of learning about some basic things in Algebra. (negative numbers, PEMDAS, solving for X, using X to solve linear equations & inequalities and graphing her equations. Nothing major, very easy going, on her level. Just showing her how and helping her learn the material. You don't need to have mastered Long Division before beginning Algebra, and she can continue to do her primary math curriculum with Algebra practice on the side.)

 

3rd Grader wants to learn Algebra, (she thinks it looks 'kinda hard but really interesting and fun' (O_O)...) so naturally I wan't to help her.

 

Thoughts???

Edited March 8, 2011 by mom2bee
I'm going to try and better explain what I mean.

[kristin0713]

We are currently using RightStart. I can't fathom not using a math curriculum. I need goals and objectives. I need to know that I am teaching them what they need to know and not allowing significant gaps in their education. I struggled with math my whole life because of a poor foundation in elementary school and I am determined not to let that happen to my kids.

[GWOB]

Oh goodness yes! I use CLE with my previously-public-schooled dd10, with Life of Fred as a supplement. I also use Singapore Math with my ds7. I cannot even fathom trying to teach math without a "real" curriculum.

[Satori]

We used RightStart our first year and a half. Now we're using Singapore. Both are very much (awesome) math curriculums. Math is so important, I couldn't imagine not using one, although I know some families do math without a particular curriculum.

[boscopup]

Since my kids have strong math genetics (both parents have math-oriented degrees and work/worked in technical fields), math is VERY important in my homeschool. I absolutely use a math curriculum. I'm using Math Mammoth, which I and my son both love. It's also inexpensive and easy to use, which is a bonus! It is a "workbook", but it's a BIG workbook. ;) It teaches step by step how to do math (both conceptual/mental math and traditional algorithm), and the teaching is all in the worktext, written to the student, but the teacher is still expected to go over the material with the student. It is a very thorough curriculum that goes from grade 1 to grade 6.

 

SWB talks in her lectures about grades 1-4 being the best time to learn a "language", which she was using this to apply to grammar, but I believe math to be a "language", so introducing the basics (+-*/) during that time is a good thing, IMO.

 

Having more upper level math under their belts in high school, my children will have more opportunities as far as career path goes. If they want to pursue a EE degree like their mama, for example, having done calculus in high school is a very good thing.

[missesd]

I use Mastering Mathematics:

 

http://www.lamppostpublishing.com/mathmastering.htm

 

It's K-6, one concept a year.

[ondreeuh]

I don't think you'll find many people on WTM who don't use a math curriculum, esp. for a fourth grader. That's more of an unschooler thing, and WTM is sort of the opposite of that philosophy. You titled your post asking if anyone used a math curriculum, and then said you are looking for people who don't, so I'm not sure you're going to get the responses you are looking for.

 

The thing about math is that even if concepts are learned easily, it normally takes a LOT of practice/review for automaticity and long-term retention. Math builds on itself in a nearly-universally agreed upon sequence, and mastery of the foundational concepts is critical for the student to be successful down the road. If you rush through foundational stuff, even if your child understands it, they will not retain it, and having to re-learn it will slow them down later.

 

You might think that baking, handling money, shopping, etc. would be enough real-world math to reinforce these concepts, but how many times have you had a cashier be unable to make change without punching it into their register? I would not rely on "real life" to teach/reinforce anything above very basic early elementary math. Most kids simply need more regular, repeated practice.

 

Now, there is an argument that an 8 yr old is developmentally mature to quickly catch up to grade level in math even if they've never had a formal curriculum. I can't speak to that because I don't know anyone who's actually done it. I have, however, seen PLENTY of posts here from parents whose children are in 6-8th grade who are in a crisis situation because there are too many gaps in their child's knowledge to continue forward, and their child self-identifies as being "bad at math." Check out the Logic board and you will see plenty of that.

 

I wouldn't take the risk, personally. I am secure knowing that my 9 year old is SOLID in his foundational skills.

[mom2bee]

I struggled with math my whole life because of a poor foundation in elementary school and I am determined not to let that happen to my kids.

 

Oddly enough, I have the exact same problem. After Statistics this summer, I plan to go and give myself a genuine education in math, I've been plotting and planning my curriculum for awhile now. The textbook was part of my problem, and my parents didn't (know how) to help me. I'm seeing some of myself in my students and I want to help them...

 

...although I know some families do math without a particular curriculum.

Can you please tell me more?

 

Since my kids have strong math genetics (both parents have math-oriented degrees and work/worked in technical fields), math is VERY important in my homeschool. I absolutely use a math curriculum. I'm using Math Mammoth, which I and my son both love. It's also inexpensive and easy to use, which is a bonus! It is a "workbook", but it's a BIG workbook. ;) It teaches step by step how to do math (both conceptual/mental math and traditional algorithm), and the teaching is all in the worktext, written to the student, but the teacher is still expected to go over the material with the student. It is a very thorough curriculum that goes from grade 1 to grade 6.

 

Math genes are pretty scarce in my neck of the woods and I have noticed that the math books my students use tend to drain the very life right out of their tolerance and/or love of math...

 

 

Funnily enough, if I were to go and buy a math program tomorrow, it would be Math Mammoth. Math and math education is very important to me also, and I want my students to have a good math education. I plan to give my own children the best math education ever no 'ifs', 'ands' or 'buts' about that one.

 

I have a huge beef with typical math education/texts in this country and don't plan to let the PS system as it is, teach them a single thing about math.

 

 

SWB talks in her lectures about grades 1-4 being the best time to learn a "language", which she was using this to apply to grammar, but I believe math to be a "language", so introducing the basics (+-*/) during that time is a good thing, IMO.

 

Having more upper level math under their belts in high school, my children will have more opportunities as far as career path goes. If they want to pursue a EE degree like their mama, for example, having done calculus in high school is a very good thing.

I agree, math is a language that definitely deserves an early start! I'd have started them all at 3yos if they had the behavior and temperment for it.

 

My ideal set up is this: Arithmetic for 3 years, Algebra for 5, Calculus for 3.

I would like to move all of my students on to Algebra by the time we hit 4th/5th grade, as now that I've been down this rabbit hole, I see it is very doable....

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I use at least one full math curriculum per child, per year.

 

One son used Ray's Arithmetic, Rod and Staff arithmetic, and Saxon Algebra (in 8th grade).

 

Second son used Rod and Staff for 4th and 5th and is now using Math Mammoth for 6th grade. He'll be doing pre-Algebra next year, and probably Algebra in 8th grade.

 

Third son uses Horizons and Rod and Staff.

 

Fourth son recently finished Horizons K. Now he is 6 and using Math Mammoth and MEP.

 

These boys are college-bound, and some of them are very interested in STEM careers. Our benchmark goals for our boys include Algebra in 8th grade and Calculus in 12th.

 

I don't personally know how to get them to those levels without expert curriculum. I'm not saying that no one can do it, but I know I can't.

[mom2bee]

I don't think you'll find many people on WTM who don't use a math curriculum, esp. for a fourth grader. That's more of an unschooler thing, and WTM is sort of the opposite of that philosophy. You titled your post asking if anyone used a math curriculum, and then said you are looking for people who don't, so I'm not sure you're going to get the responses you are looking for.

 

The thing about math is that even if concepts are learned easily, it normally takes a LOT of practice/review for automaticity and long-term retention. Math builds on itself in a nearly-universally agreed upon sequence, and mastery of the foundational concepts is critical for the student to be successful down the road. If you rush through foundational stuff, even if your child understands it, they will not retain it, and having to re-learn it will slow them down later.

 

You might think that baking, handling money, shopping, etc. would be enough real-world math to reinforce these concepts, but how many times have you had a cashier be unable to make change without punching it into their register? I would not rely on "real life" to teach/reinforce anything above very basic early elementary math. Most kids simply need more regular, repeated practice.

 

Now, there is an argument that an 8 yr old is developmentally mature to quickly catch up to grade level in math even if they've never had a formal curriculum. I can't speak to that because I don't know anyone who's actually done it. I have, however, seen PLENTY of posts here from parents whose children are in 6-8th grade who are in a crisis situation because there are too many gaps in their child's knowledge to continue forward, and their child self-identifies as being "bad at math." Check out the Logic board and you will see plenty of that.

 

I wouldn't take the risk, personally. I am secure knowing that my 9 year old is SOLID in his foundational skills.

 

I wouldn't rely on 'daily life' to teach my current students squat. I know them too well for that and I know it wouldn't have worked on ME either.

I was one of those 'crisis' cases you mentioned, (think 14-15yo in 3rd grade math book) so I know how those children feel!

 

But the problem is, with the current math program, I wouldn't be surprised if my students wound up in that boat anyway.

 

I would still have them do daily math practice and such, but using carefully sequenced worksheets, not a textbook. (Don't ask me why this makes a difference, just know that it does. Many of our 'problems' are the kind that exist only in heads around here. :lol::lol::lol:!)

 

I just want to find a way to balance the 'drill and kill' with actually knowing, recognizing, liking and using the skill in the first freakin place!!

[Satori]

 

Can you please tell me more?

 

I think you'd be better off asking this question in an unschooling forum. I frequented a forum that was pretty "unschooly" and I have friends that unschool. However, they really don't talk about math, unless it's to say that they cover math when they do cooking recipes.

 

Maybe you could check out Living Math? I think it looks interesting and has tons of ideas without using an official curriculum.

 

I think you'd be fine with Math Mammoth. We use it as a supplement, but there are lots of people here who love it as their main math program.

[Osaubi]

I always recommend livingmath.net for anyone looking for something extra in math.

I use RightStart with one child and Singapore with the other. We also read math books that are recommended on this math website. Our current favorites are Penrose the Mathmatical Cat books.

[rootsnwings]

I completely understand where you're coming from, OP--and I think you have a good point. Math in the early grades really IS best taught without a formal textbook/workbook, or better yet, a "closed-book" approach. That's basically what we did with my DS9 until we got to the times tables and I was a little weary of trying to teach them to him "on my own". He got the *concept* of multiplication (and division for that matter) way before he ever really had a true need for the rote memorization of the times table. I think all that conceptual learning is best done without a textbook in the early years, by playing math games. I believe most parents just don't know what to *do* with their kids though (myself included!!!!!!) so they use the curriculum as an activity guide. And the flashy workbook is usually fun for the kid and *proof* they've been doing school. ;) I know my ds really likes seeing all that he has accomplished in a written workbook.

 

So yes, while there are tons of wonderful math curricula out there, I do NOT think it's necessary to actually use one if you feel confident that your kids are progressing well in math. I personally think most math concepts are development milestones (like talking & walking) and so long as a child is in an educationally stimulating, mathematically nurturing environment, the concepts will be learned easily, even without a formal curriculum. :)

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

You probably aren't going to get your kids ready for Algebra by fourth grade if you are only just now thinking about how to teach early elementary arithmetic.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, just realistic. I just don't see how it is possible when you aren't good at math and don't like it, and your children dislike math as well, and you are only just now considering how to teach them math.

 

If you will begin to be diligent now, you can help them be ready for Algebra by 8th or 9th grade. That's a pretty good goal.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Singapore, Math Mammoth, Ray's Arithmetic, Horizons, and Rod and Staff do not just provide worksheets that mean nothing.

 

They teach the child why the numbers work the way they do. They provide practice and real-life examples as well as games and puzzles to help children master math truths instead of just manipulating algorithms without understanding.

 

Have you had a chance to look at homeschool math materials? They are nothing like public school math curricula, and they are nothing like practice workbooks from Walmart. They are substantial and real.

[twoxcell]

We use Singapore Math, and I love it!

[Satori]

:iagree:

 

I want to add that we're having a blast learning math, we've always picked out fun and engaging curriculms. Just today waiting for our car brakes to get fixed, my daughter and I were giving each other math problems, Singapore-style. She was gobbling it up! I was amazed at how eager she was learning the more challenging stuff I was throwing at her. She's begging to learn more advanced math, after seeing me watch it on Khan Academy. I'm learning that showing a positive example of a mom interested in math has its rewards.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

:iagree:

 

I want to add that we're having a blast learning math, we've always picked out fun and engaging curriculms. Just today waiting for our car brakes to get fixed, my daughter and I were giving each other math problems, Singapore-style. She was gobbling it up! I was amazed at how eager she was learning the more challenging stuff I was throwing at her. She's begging to learn more advanced math, after seeing me watch it on Khan Academy. I'm learning that showing a positive example of a mom interested in math has its rewards.

 

:iagree: We've had the same experience with Khan Academy.

 

Also, my children have grown in their math appreciation by watching me study ahead in my son's Algebra II book, or by helping to teach my littlest boy an out-of-the-box lesson from MEP.

 

Curriculum doesn't preclude adventure or fun. It actually provides tools to explore with.

[Snowfall]

I just don't see how it is possible when you aren't good at math and don't like it, and your children dislike math as well, and you are only just now considering how to teach them math.

 

Yes. I'm really not sure why anyone who dislikes math herself would be so determined to design her own math education for anyone else. That seems counterproductive. Let someone who actually enjoys and understands math design a program, because they're bound to do a better job at it than someone who doesn't enjoy it and isn't particularly good at it.

[mom2bee]

You probably aren't going to get your kids ready for Algebra by fourth grade if you are only just now thinking about how to teach early elementary arithmetic.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, just realistic. I just don't see how it is possible when you aren't good at math and don't like it, and your children dislike math as well, and you are only just now considering how to teach them math.

 

If you will begin to be diligent now, you can help them be ready for Algebra by 8th or 9th grade. That's a pretty good goal.

 

They aren't MY kids, they are my students.

I'm not only just now thinking about how to teach them arithmetic, (ReaderBoy and LilGuy are in 1st grade...I'm working to get LilGal into Algebra by the end of this year.)

I wasn't good at math. I'm currently taking PreCalculus and Trig in College. Is it easy as Pie? No. Am I doing it? Yes.

I meant to communicate that they dislike their TEXTBOOKS. And their current Textbooks are crap anyway. I'm hoping that next year the kids wont be in virtual public school and that I'll have more freedom to direct the curriculum around here as its hard for me to do anything with the current set up...

 

I'm not talking unschooling, or any thing like that. I'm talking about doing lessons, revision and practice every.single day, just using manipulatives and worksheets everyday instead of a textbook...

 

I've looked at Living Math several times before, thats more supplemental stuff. I wouldn't mind running something like Math On the Level in the background, but I sure as heck am not considering it as a primary program for these students. I don't feel that it'd work.

 

If I had to get a curriculum, and I could afford any that I wanted, tomorrow I'd get Math Mammoth.

 

But I'm wondering if anyone is doing this with out Math Mammoth or any other program...

[Homemama2]

I did not use a 'curriculum' for my oldest in K. We had gotten MUS, which just did not work for that child (although I think it's great) and at the time I was reading The Three R's by Ruth Beechick. In that book it explained how to teach concepts w/o an actual text, working through them with manipulatives in a systematic manner. I also found a list of 'how to teach math w/o a text book' topics on Cathy Duffy's Review site

That said, it went extremely well for us in K. I had the time and energy to plan everything out, find games to go along w/ our topics etc, etc. I was amazed on how much we covered that year (my friend at the time was trying to get me to use Saxon and I was borrowing it to look through. We got through everything in Saxon 2, with the exception of some of the measuring.) So it can definitely work. (And at our house it wasn't unschooling at all...we were working daily on concepts in the order that I had planned.)

In first grade though, I didn't keep it up because 1.) It was very time consuming to do it myself and 2.) I was freaked out that I would forget something or, of course, ruin my child FOR LIFE (this seems to be an underlying fear of mine, lol)

I was glad that I decided to switch to Rightstart because it taught mental math in a way that I had never been taught. Rightstart isn't the only great program out there, though. There are many that people love for different reasons.

SO, for us, we loved going the non-textbook approach for the short time that it lasted, but we have been equally happy moving into a textbook.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Homemama2

[GWOB]

You probably aren't going to get your kids ready for Algebra by fourth grade if you are only just now thinking about how to teach early elementary arithmetic.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, just realistic. I just don't see how it is possible when you aren't good at math and don't like it, and your children dislike math as well, and you are only just now considering how to teach them math.

 

If you will begin to be diligent now, you can help them be ready for Algebra by 8th or 9th grade. That's a pretty good goal.

 

Didn't the LoF guy say "You aren't ready for Algebra if you don't have hair under your arms" of something similar? I totally got higher level math, but I still made simple arithmetic mistakes all.the.time. Math is so important in this house. Math is a daily activity here, mostly with a curriculum. I consider myself semi-mathy. I've taken up to Calculus. I did nuclear power in the Navy. I just cannot even think of preparing my kids for the real world without using a math curriculum

[forty-two]

Well, I don't think the OP's question is so very out there, even for a classical board :confused:. I mean, isn't that the exact approach SWB takes for writing? You have a progression of skills that you work through at the child's pace, using real books - not texts - to demonstrate and practice each skill. I see no reason why the same approach couldn't work equally well for math (except that everyone is scared of it - even many unschoolers break down and use texts in math :sigh).

 

Anyway, I think you could do it using any elementary math for teachers book as a spine of sorts. And if you wanted more handholding, Math on the Level does exactly what you are looking for - shows various ways to teach each concept (none of which involve a textbook ;)) and how to make customizable review sheets, including each concept after it's been learned.

[mom2bee]

Yes. I'm really not sure why anyone who dislikes math herself would be so determined to design her own math education for anyone else. That seems counterproductive. Let someone who actually enjoys and understands math design a program, because they're bound to do a better job at it than someone who doesn't enjoy it and isn't particularly good at it.

Well, sometimes, it takes the life time experience of 'having sucked at and suffered through' and actually triumphed over something to understand how to teach it to those who are still sucking and suffering at where ever it is you just came from.

 

I think that I could actually design a very good math curriculum and it is in the works ;).

 

I was bad at Math. Was is past tense, ladies. I can now do pretty much any K-8 mathematics without a problem. I assure you I could teach a 5, 7 and 9yo all they needed to know without a printed curriculum if I had too...

[Crimson Wife]

if you wanted more handholding, Math on the Level does exactly what you are looking for - shows various ways to teach each concept (none of which involve a textbook ;)) and how to make customizable review sheets, including each concept after it's been learned.

 

MOTL was the first thing that came to mind. Kitchen Table Math was the second. A good thread on those two programs is this one.

 

I think using MOTL or KTM followed by something like Lial's BCM is an approach that could work okay. It's not my personal cuppa, but different strokes for different folks :001_smile:

[rootsnwings]

Well, sometimes, it takes the life time experience of 'having sucked at and suffered through' and actually triumphed over something to understand how to teach it to those who are still sucking and suffering at where ever it is you just came from.

 

I think that I could actually design a very good math curriculum and it is in the works ;).

 

I was bad at Math. Was is past tense, ladies. I can now do pretty much any K-8 mathematics without a problem. I assure you I could teach a 5, 7 and 9yo all they needed to know without a printed curriculum if I had too...

 

I think it could surely be done but there would be a LOT of hands-on learning. The worksheets eventually just phase out the hands on/conceptual part of math.

 

I think what you may be looking for is a math teaching guide? Maybe this will help: http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematics-Understanding/dp/0415873843/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1299558342&sr=8-2

 

Then I'd suggest checking out a few of the suggested math curricula listed in this thread. We use Singapore and LOVE it but your youngers may like something like Rightstart or Miquon. All of these are VERY different than a regular public school textbook approach and they all teach the mathematical concepts in a more hands-on Montessori-learning style. I *think* that is what you're asking for, if not, keep on talking & we'll point you in the right direction!!! :tongue_smilie:

 

So these are not your kids, but you are like their teacher outside of school? I'm confused on your situation. :confused: But would love to hear more!!! :)

[Reya]

If you didn't like math, I STRONGLY urge you to use RightStart. :-)

[texasmama]

Of the basic subjects (not including languages), math is the only subject for which I absolutely NEED a curriculum. I could teach everything else with living books at the elementary level.

[Reya]

Well, sometimes, it takes the life time experience of 'having sucked at and suffered through' and actually triumphed over something to understand how to teach it to those who are still sucking and suffering at where ever it is you just came from.

 

I think that I could actually design a very good math curriculum and it is in the works ;).

 

I was bad at Math. Was is past tense, ladies. I can now do pretty much any K-8 mathematics without a problem. I assure you I could teach a 5, 7 and 9yo all they needed to know without a printed curriculum if I had too...

 

If you stunk, it's unlikely that you triumphed. More likely, you memorized. Pleasepleaseplease choose a curriculum that will teach EVERY child to think mathematically rather than force those who don't naturally to do brute force memorization.

 

It is NOT easy to design a good mathematics curriculum. Most of them stink. How many effective addition strategies can you come with right now, and in what circumstances are they effective? Even if you can, it would take longer to design a good curriculum than it does for a child to pass through it, much less design several simultaneously.

[wapiti]

Well, sometimes, it takes the life time experience of 'having sucked at and suffered through' and actually triumphed over something to understand how to teach it to those who are still sucking and suffering at where ever it is you just came from.

 

I think that I could actually design a very good math curriculum and it is in the works ;).

 

I was bad at Math. Was is past tense, ladies. I can now do pretty much any K-8 mathematics without a problem. I assure you I could teach a 5, 7 and 9yo all they needed to know without a printed curriculum if I had too...

 

Before you reinvent the wheel, it's worth considering that there are math curricula out there that might suit you and your students. The choices may be more numerous and varied, and more hands-on and conceptual, than you have imagined.

[mom2bee]

If you stunk, it's unlikely that you triumphed. More likely, you memorized.

 

 

Or maybe, I just triumphed...

Edited March 8, 2011 by mom2bee

[Crimson Wife]

Everybody, :chillpill::chillpill::chillpill::chillpill::chillpill:

 

To the OP- do go take a look at Math on the Level and Kitchen Table Math. Another great series is the Family Math one from Lawrence Hall of Science.

 

Life of Fred is a curriculum that packs a lot of high quality math teaching into a wonderfully engaging "story" format. My oldest reads the Fractions and Decimals & Percents books for fun.

[Satori]

Before you reinvent the wheel, it's worth considering that there are math curricula out there that might suit you and your students. The choices may be more numerous and varied, and more hands-on and conceptual, than you have imagined.

 

I agree. Take a look at some of the math programs people have mentioned in this thread. There are so many amazing math programs, it is hard to settle down to just one.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Satori

[jewellsmommy]

I was wondering if you have spent much time looking at the various math options. There are so many approaches that are nothing like what your students may have been doing in their textbooks. I know that when I started looking into math curricula, I was blown away by the myriad of options. I thought they would all be variations of the same math I had in public school. I was totally wrong!

 

It seems that something like miquon (a unique, discovery-hands on math) coupled with singapore would give you the out-of-the-box approach but with the intensity of an 'aggressive' math. You would know 100% that you are covering everything. You don't have to teach it word for word. You could just use it as a guide. Neither are expensive and are easily bought off ebay or hs classified.

 

You sound young and there will be many years ahead to experiment and right your own curriculum if you choose. You just need to ask yourself if this is the right time, especially if your still doing college work and teaching as well. :001_smile:

[boscopup]

I think a big part of the problem here is that your OP was confusing. Perhaps if you explain your situation a bit better and exactly what you're looking for, we might be able to help more. Are you looking for a way to teach kids math without spending much/any money? (understandable) Your OP sounded like you wanted to unschool math because you thought that might be the better way to do it. Now it's sounding like you just can't afford curriculum but want to provide a good math education. So explaining the situation a bit better and what exactly you are looking for might help keep the thread on track.

 

If you're needing free curriculum, MEP is a good choice. If I couldn't afford Math Mammoth (which is actually one of the cheaper math curricula out there... easily obtained for $26/year if you catch the 20% off sale vs. the $80-100+/year for many other options), that's what I'd use.

 

I do think that expecting your kids to get to algebra by 4th or 5th grade is a bit unrealistic. A very gifted in math student can sometimes do it, but that's definitely not the norm. I would shoot for 8th grade, and if you get there sooner, fine. Algebra by 8th still provides a good path through high school math that allows the math-based careers to be an option.

 

Good on you for overcoming your math education issues. My MIL always says she's not good at math, but we've found that if we just put math in cooking or sewing terms, she understands it easily. I think she could be better at math if she'd been taught differently. She may not have turned out to be a math genius (like her DH and son), but she could have at least felt like she *could* do math.

[Spy Car]

Maybe, just maybe, someone has gone off their lithium.

 

Bill

[RoundAbout]

Before you reinvent the wheel, it's worth considering that there are math curricula out there that might suit you and your students. The choices may be more numerous and varied, and more hands-on and conceptual, than you have imagined.

 

:iagree:

 

There are many wonderful math programs out there. I love math, am good at it, nearly majored in it, used it extensively in my professional life, and have no doubt I could teach math decently from scratch with just a pencil and a piece of paper... but I still use curricula. Why re-invent the wheel when there are so many well developed programs out there? Things like RightStart, Singapore, and Miquon are very conceptual, hands-on, and fun. The reason I use a math curriculum is to cover any gaps I might have missed, or because they can present things in ways I haven't thought of, or in a manner more appropriate for a young learner, or because they explicitly lay out things that I would have just assumed, etc. etc. I think its definitely possible to take a closed book approach to teaching math, but I don't see the point in trying unless you're extremely tight on budget.

Edited March 8, 2011 by RoundAbout

[ondreeuh]

They aren't MY kids, they are my students.

I'm not only just now thinking about how to teach them arithmetic, (ReaderBoy and LilGuy are in 1st grade...I'm working to get LilGal into Algebra by the end of this year.)

 

I assume you don't have guardianship of these children - do you have permission from their parents to experiment with their math education? I'm sorry if that sounds blunt, but essentially that is what you are doing if you are making up your own math program on the fly.

 

Published math curricula are developed to teach systematically. There is a lot of testing that goes into them, and a lot of feedback that is received from teachers who review it. I understand that as an adult you have gone through grade 2+ math sequence, but as you know, children are developmentally a lot different than adults and learn differently. From you posts, it seems you are familiar with one math program offered through a virtual school. You seem to be resistant to using any curriculum, without having seen how they were taught. Even the program the VS uses may be very effective if taught by an experienced teacher.

 

ANY other subject - history, science, even teaching to read, I would have no issue if a parent wanted to experiment and do it on their own. Math, I do have an issue with because of it's scaffolded nature. ESPECIALLY when you are proposing this with children who aren't yours.

[twoxcell]

Why does a third grader need to be doing Algebra if they do not even know multiplication yet.:001_huh: With Singapore math we start with concrete learning(through manipulatives), then to pictorial(with the textbook), and then finally abstract(with the workbook). Singapore is excellent for teaching mental math, and the math concepts behind the algorithms.

[nmoira]

 

Why does a third grader need to be doing Algebra if they do not even know multiplication yet.:001_huh:

And a grade ahead in math is not terribly advanced to begin with. It's one thing to have an 8 or 9yo chomping at the bit to do algebra, it's entirely another setting that up as a goal. If there's interest, I'd recommend the OP place them in EPGY (see the accelerated board), and stay out of it otherwise. They can advance at their own pace within a challenging framework and be free of unrealistic expectations and teacher's personal hangups.

[Reya]

Or maybe, I just triumphed...

 

I'm not trying to antagonize. I just want you to look soberly at your own definition and define it for me. The breeziness of the declaration is just worrisome. By what measure is triumph? Is it good grades? A high final course?

 

In high school, I made a 5 on the Calc BC AP test. My lowest 6 weeks grade in math was a 97, and my teachers did not offer extra credit. I also made the highest grade my first semester at Purdue University in the honors Calc III course reserved solely for students who made a 5 on the Calc BC AP test--on one test, the professor gave up and actually awarded me a 117 after the curve to keep enough of the other students from flunking. (As it was my second highest grade in college on a test, I was amused enough to remember it.) I was the only person in a final exam of 300 students who realized that a Dif Eq multiple choice test was a farce and you could just derive the answers rather than integrate the questions. By the time I even thought of teaching my kids any math, I'd tutored math at every level for 15 years. So I'm no math dummy.

 

But I would not say now that I had or have "triumphed" in math. My stature compared to that of people actually skilled in mathematics is laughable. I would never have dared, until I had taught a number of elementary math programs and followed their logic, to create my own. And in creating my own, it is not because I believe I can out RightStart RightStart but because there's a gap in bringing the level of understanding that a fusion of Asian and Montessori programs can can create to mentally retarded children. And I am only writing a program because I am forced to, since no one has ever believed in their ability to think before. The is NO program out there I can use for these students. And I think they deserve better than that. So as inadequate as I am, I am doing my best to bring them the glory of numbers that come so easily to so many.

 

If I do create a successful program, I know it will be through trial and error--critically, AT THE EXPENSE OF MY STUDENT. I realize that, no matter how hard I try, no matter how hard I think about it and no matter how much I work at putting together the most awesome program imaginable, it's going to need substantial revisions going forward. And those revisions are going to cost the child entrusted into my care. If there were any program out there that could offer what I think every child deserves, I would take it in a heartbeat.

 

Kitchen Table Math is a great book. It's still someone else's program--and it's the program of a very mathy person meant for mathy kids. To take upon yourself the role of single-handedly, as an admitted math-hating person, inventing your own math program is something I have, unfortunately, seen in a few homeschoolers before. If I told you the results, you'd say I was just being mean. (I'm still trying to wrap my mind around one mother complaining about the county criticizing her about it....and I just can't.) But the mothers defended them by saying, "Well, I guess we're just not a mathy family."

 

Fine. Not everyone will be. But every child deserves the opportunity to be a mathy kid, if they have the least spark! I just don't see what you propose having that capability. How can you inspire someone while teaching them something you hate? I hate art. I use a curriculum that I don't even have to teach, and my son adores it. I don't know piano. I chose a proven program, and my son's growing inspired and is working diligently at truly perfecting his pieces, holding himself to an increasingly higher standard on his own. If I don't like it, I try to take my personality out of the equation as much as possible to keep from affecting my kids. I don't decide that what I really need to do is make up my own curriculum.

 

Pardon me if I'm extra cynical today. I just finished talking to a college freshman who last summer assured me that math was her best subject, that she was a good student, and that she was considering going into accounting. I found out this week that her definition of good grades aren't mine (as she cheered over an 80 for a midterm in a freshman-level course!!!!!), that she maxed out at pre-calc in high school, and that she flunked the mandatory college math placement test so badly she's in algebra again (at a second-tier public university in FL), which she is barely passing despite going to free tutoring twice a week. And she ends this with, "But I've always been good in math."

 

And all I can do is nod.

[Reya]

And reading this yet again, I STILL really think what you're looking for is RightStart Math. Seriously. I don't think you realize how close it is to what you're describing--and yet how much more it is than you probably imagine! I certainly didn't imagine an elementary curriculum could be so good!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Singapore, Math Mammoth, Ray's Arithmetic, Horizons, and Rod and Staff do not just provide worksheets that mean nothing.

 

They teach the child why the numbers work the way they do. They provide practice and real-life examples as well as games and puzzles to help children master math truths instead of just manipulating algorithms without understanding.

 

Have you had a chance to look at homeschool math materials? They are nothing like public school math curricula, and they are nothing like practice workbooks from Walmart. They are substantial and real.

 

This is our experience with Saxon math also. When I started teaching Rutabaga, there were several math choices, but Saxon was the biggie. I went with it. Sat down at the table and told his 3.5 yo brother to not bother us. Brother was upset because he'd seen all the cool manipulatives and thought we were playing a game and trying to exclude him.

 

So I let the little guy come along, figuring that he'd get tired of it in a week. I've now got a 7th grader and a 6th grader that are working on the first levels of algebra. Which is great.

 

One thing that I love about a curriculum is that it helps me to present math concepts in easily consumable chunks. Saxon does this in a spiral, coming back to a topic after the student has practiced it on the daily practice problems. Singapore and others do this by proceeding a chunk at a time through a topic until they have carried the student through as far as they can. (I think both have advantages and disadvantages.)

 

Left to my own devices I'd be tempted to jump from point A to point F, without all the little stops in between.

 

And there is nothing that says that you can't loiter in one spot if you need to to make the concept clear. We spent a whole week doing example after example when dividing fractions was introduced. When we were done, I sure understood why the algorithm worked. And I could give them a little reminder of what they were really doing when they used it.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I'm interested in anyone who has taken a 'closed book' approach to elementary math concepts like: (skip) counting, arithmetic operations, fractions, and money and had success with it...in the later years.

 

Teaching Elementary Math sans a textbook, really doesn't seem that 'out there' to me, but many people seem to think that you should have the book.

So, I want to get some opinions around here.

 

I'm not saying we wont do pen and paper math problems, we will. But only AFTER learning the concept, skill etc...and practicing it through manipulative's for a few days and then moving to paper and pen.

 

Thoughts???

 

I don't think it's so *out there*, either. When someone asks about doing something of this sort for K - 3, or even for remedial work, I usually link to this article at Cathy Duffy's site. Wouldn't it entirely possible to expound upon each item in the list?

 

I have to admit that I've wondered the same thing myself about going *book-less*. There are so many vintage texts in the public domain to serve as resources for practice problems. It does make sense to work hard to cement math facts and master algorithms and concepts.

 

FWIW, when I took Col. Alg., my professor never used a text. In fact, I was a bit :confused: when I was told not to buy one for the class. He simply stood at the board and worked problems with us, then called on students to do the same to show their understanding. We had 4-5 pages of homework problems printed on legal-sized paper each day. (I mention the legal-sized paper because he got lots of problems in that way. :D) I made an *A* in that class, and never had to reach for a book to help me at all. (And I will mention that I took this class 18 years after high school. So I didn't have the young brain cells of a child, but mine were able to grasp his teaching just the same at my ripe old age. ;).)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would still have them do daily math practice and such, but using carefully sequenced worksheets, not a textbook. (Don't ask me why this makes a difference, just know that it does. Many of our 'problems' are the kind that exist only in heads around here. :lol::lol::lol:!)

 

I just want to find a way to balance the 'drill and kill' with actually knowing, recognizing, liking and using the skill in the first freakin place!!

 

Maybe you'd like to look through the primary grade levels of Saxon. Instead of having a textbook for the student, they have a teacher manual with a suggested script for the lesson. You work through math concepts using various manipulatives (Fantastic Frogs were a favorite at our house, followed by linking cubes and pattern blocks). Then there is a fact sheet and a two sided worksheet each day.

 

But there isn't a textbook for the younger kids.

 

Saxon has been a huge sucess at our house. It might be something that would be helpful with these kids. I would recommend that whatever math program you choose, you find a placement test from the company and not just pick the level that has the same number as their grade. There is a lot of difference in scope and sequence as well as lesson style from one program to another. There is no shame in using a math book marked with a 3 if that is what fits the math ability of a 4th grader. Give them the time and opportunity to build the skills and they may be able to gain some real momentum.

[ezrabean2005]

One resource we have around is "Maximum Math" by Kathryn Stout. It's a design-a-study guide and is useful for a great outline of math skills / grades / etc. I agree that it is more of a waste of your time to reinvent the wheel with so many great resources at your disposal.

 

Worksheets aren't a waste of time, it is a TOOL that some parents use to ensure their child has mastered a skill before moving on. "Drill and Kill" is not an appropriate phrase for a homeschool type situation when the teacher can tailor the work for a child. If I'm drilling, it's because my child needs more exposure to a new, recent idea. No one has ever died. Then it becomes "easy" after awhile. All new things require work and effort.

 

The trick of it is is to not judge all curriculums by what a public school or charter school has selected. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We use CLE Math around here. Placement tests are free and 10 LightUnits make up a year. Each LU is arough $3.20, so it is very reasonable cost-wise.

[boscopup]

The trick of it is is to not judge all curriculums by what a public school or charter school has selected. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

In particular, a lot of people have had issues with TERC Investigations and Everyday Math, so if the school is using one of those books, the kids may not be learning the traditional algorithms and may just be confused in general about how to do math. Some curricula only teach the traditional algorithm, some only teach conceptual math, and some teach BOTH. I prefer one that teaches both, and there are several choices out there for homeschoolers (Math Mammoth, Singapore, RightStart, Math in Focus, CLE Math, and some others that I'm forgetting). Every curriculum is different. Some public schools use good math curricula, and some don't. The same goes for private schools. And also some curricula just aren't good fits for certain children. For example, some kids need daily review of previously learned topics, and they need to be introduced to things small chunks at a time. For them, a spiral curriculum like Saxon or CLE would be a good choice. Some kids do better learning a topic and practicing that one topic most of the day, then occasionally reviewing topic, but not everyday. For them, a mastery type curriculum like Math Mammoth or Singapore would be a good choice (my oldest son is in this group, hence our MM choice, which is working fabulously for him). Many kids can do either one and be just fine. My son did ok with Saxon, but it just bored him because he didn't need to review daily.

 

Math curricula also vary on how the teaching is done. Some are purely workbook based. Some are purely manipulative based. Some are a good mix of the two. They all vary, and again, each child's needs are different. My son doesn't need manipulatives very often, so we chose a program that doesn't require them. I don't think he would like RightStart very much, as it's mostly manipulatives and very little worksheets. I am using RightStart for my 4 year old though, as at that age, less worksheets is a good thing.

 

And ultimately, the TEACHER makes the biggest difference. You can have great curriculum, but if the teacher doesn't know what they're doing, they may not be able to convey the material to the student. If your library has the Liping Ma book on teaching elementary mathematics (I think someone linked it above, IIRC), that would be an excellent read for you.

[mom2bee]

I updated the original thread. Hopefully it is a little clearer about what I'm asking. Maybe not, one thing I've learned on this forum is I'm pretty lousy at effective written communication in real time. (*Adding that to my self-education plan.*)

 

I'm not saying that I'm going to throw all math curriculum to the wind. Hardly that, I dont even want to do that. But I want to make sure we're getting a solid grounding and understanding of arithmetic and fractions. I've looked at several curriculum (Saxon, MM, Singapore, LOF, MOTL, RightStart, CLE, etc..) but we simply can't afford any right now. It isn't an option. like, at all.

 

I'm going to try and adapt what we have to work for the students.

 

Mostly I've worked with this group of students on reading. (Last summer LilGal and I did Math and it was good, but we didn't do 'fact drills' because her mom said not to.) But I'm looking to add in more math instruction in the coming months. (not right away, we've gotta get a tight grip on reading + phonics and build reading fluency and 3rd grader is prepping for standardized tests with her mom using the school curriculum and methods. I'd forgotten that when I made my OP)

 

But the one thing I've changed/added for 3rd graders math is that she's going to learn + drill her number bonds and times tables, everyday, come hell or high water, starting yesterday.

 

I do want to start teaching math in a more concrete way for my first graders and need ideas on how to present it using manipulatives. Right now were using beans to explore number bonds and doing counting exercises daily. My goal for them is to understand place value and be able to do addition and subtraction on 4 digit numbers by the end of the summer and to understand fractions.

 

We can't afford a math curriculum, but I've got tons of time on my hands (can you tell?) and am willing to painstakingly adapt their curriculum and workbooks to a more manipulative based approach or to build a simple arithmetic curriculum from a scope and sequence list from someone else.

 

I feel up to the task of teaching elementary math, with or without a curriculum, using just some materials and lots of home made manipulatives and throwing in some other math books for fun. But I'd rather not go that route at this point.

 

I have a growing list of books on Math Education that I wan't to read and study for myself, but my public library doesn't carry any of them. I'm reading some books from the college library and trying to find others through inter-library loan.

 

What does IIRC mean?

 

Thank you everyone for so much feedback and information.

[boscopup]

I updated the original thread. Hopefully it is a little clearer about what I'm asking.

 

Ok, that helps a lot. :)

 

I do want to start teaching math in a more concrete way for my first graders and need ideas on how to present it using manipulatives. Right now were using beans to explore number bonds and doing counting exercises daily. My goal for them is to understand place value and be able to do addition and subtraction on 4 digit numbers by the end of the summer and to understand fractions.

 

Using money can help a lot with understanding place value. That's how Saxon teaches it (as much as I hate Saxon early grades, my son *did* learn a lot about place value and money when using it). Of course, I know you're broke, but if you have some change in your pocket, or can draw and color coins on some cereal boxes and cut them out, that's a great place to start. :)

 

We can't afford a math curriculum, but I've got tons of time on my hands (can you tell?) and am willing to painstakingly adapt their curriculum and workbooks to a more manipulative based approach or to build a simple arithmetic curriculum from a scope and sequence list from someone else.

 

What you're doing with the homemade manipulatives sounds great! Check your library's virtual/net library... I know my library doesn't have the Liping Ma book, but the net library that they give me access to does. So you might be able to read it on the computer.

 

For the 3rd grader, take a look at MEP again. They have an online version I believe for level 3 and up? So you wouldn't have to print it. You could just do it on the computer. That is assuming that you have internet access for the 3rd grader to use. You could also write answers on scratch paper if using the non-online versions, looking at the work on the computer. It'd be tricky, but could probably be done. The lesson plans are well done and use manipulatives. There are usually only a handful of problems per lesson, and you might be able to do some of it orally even (just point at the screen and have the child say what they would write there). Be creative with it. ;)

 

What does IIRC mean?

 

 

If I Recall Correctly

 

(add basic internet abbreviations to your list of things to study :D)

[ezrabean2005]

Mom2Bee: So are you the person who has agreed to sit with these kids everyday while they do their Public Charter School on the computer? They are not siblings, obviously. Are you paid for doing this or exchanging services in some way?

 

Are the parents fully aware of how their children are struggling with the curriculum through the charter school? Are you in regular contact with the advisor / assigned teacher / etc?

 

The reason I'm asking is to get a better picture of your situation -- you are seemingly limited on many fronts. If the charter school is a good one, there should be some assistance through it (I don't know, but I would think so from advertisements I've seen). If the parents want you to do this, then maybe they also should provide some funds to buy what you need to help teach their children.

 

I don't think that you are in a situation where you are 100% responsible for these children's educations but you seem to think so. The parents should be helping or providing resources or the charter school should be (or both). But you shouldn't be beating your head against the wall when you are clearly limited with the choices these parents may be making.

 

I don't know, I'm shooting in the dark. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. It would help if you fully disclosed what your situation is. It would help all of us to give potentially better advice.