cylau Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I know nothing about band instruments. When I called the music studio about starting ds9 a band instrument, the girl said he is a little early to start learning a band instrument. Is it too early? When is a good age to start a band instrument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilo90 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 9 is a great age to begin a band instrument. I'm not sure why they would say otherwise. I suppose the instrument could play a factor. Easier for a 9 year old to begin flute than tuba. If your son is small and wants to do a large instrument, it could be challenging, but that's the only issue I could see. My degree is in music and most all of my friends who were instrumental majors started at 9/10. I started flute at age 9 with no issues. If you think your son could handle it, then I would see no problem. I'm sure whoever his instructor would be would have a very informed opinion on it. Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'm normally a late starter with instruments, but if she is mature and self-motivated 9 is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I think it has to do with teeth development. I read somewhere that the adult teeth in front need to all be in place in order to produce proper air vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I think it has to do with teeth development. I read somewhere that the adult teeth in front need to all be in place in order to produce proper air vibration. My old jazz band teacher now works at a local music store. That is precisely the advice he gives parents who want to start their child on a band instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 What instrument? That will make a big difference. I think writing off a 9 yo with no other information is silly. Is ther another place in town, or can you stop in when someone else is working (maybe the owner?) My dd wanted to play the flute, and we waited until she was big enough to play a standard student flute, which was about 8 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Our band director told some parents, whose kids wanted to play trombone, that they were too little. So it depended on the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Goldwater Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 That's usually when DW wakes up...anytime before is TOO early. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in OR Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 DD started trombone this year, in fifth grade. There was some discussion of arm length, in being able to reach certain positions. When I attended grade school, all third and fourth graders did group recorder lessons, and fifth graders could choose to go into the band program. I think recorder is valuable (and also cheap to start) in that it gets kids familiar with reading music if they aren't already (we've been doing piano lessons), is an introduction to breath control, and connects the idea of finger positions relating to different notes. Erica in OR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphabetika Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I started flute at 9 in p.s. and played seriously for the next ten years. In our local homeschol music program, many kids start band instruments earlier than that, limited only by their ability to physically handle the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Nothing before 9 a.m. or the neighbors will complain. (All right (slap, slap)... time to give up the giddy and get back to studying.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I started trumpet in 3rd grade. I was 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I thought the schools started band instruments in 3rd/4th grade? My 10yo dd just had her first flute lesson, and was shocked when I told her she wasn't "late" starting flute - she's been taking piano for 5 years already. :tongue_smilie: There must be people who start earlier, though, as the flute teacher was practically giddy that dd was already 10 - apparently she must have people bringing little kids in to start - she said it was so much easier when they're this age (I'm sure for all the reasons others mentioned - teeth, breath, arm reach). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Usually 4th grade, but it's dependent on the physiological development of the child. It is possible to start flute very, very young with a modified instrument (4-5 years old). And percussion can be started any time. I do agree that instruments that place pressure on the front teeth require those front teeth set-which means that you want about those first 4 on the top and bottom. One BIG caveat-sometimes parents think that because an instrument has a smaller version, it will be easier to play. That's not always true. Soprano saxophone, piccolo, or sopranino clarinet are all harder to play than their more commonly used brethren. I've heard the same thing on piccolo trumpets. About the only place this works is in starting a child on euphonium instead of tuba-and in that case, it's a completely different instrument that just happens to look like you washed the big one and it shrank. The reason specific instruments are most often played by beginners is that they're the easiest members of their families to play, period. Stick with them for the first year or two (4th-5th grade, usually). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I thought the schools started band instruments in 3rd/4th grade? They start here in 5th grade. Many schools are eliminating 5th grade band, though, so students are now starting in 6th. Another thought... There are so many instruments that can be played early. My dc loved learning to play the recorder, tin whistle, glockenspiel, etc. when they were young. It is nice to let them explore those instruments, so that they can decide what family of instrument they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachmejoy Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 We all began band in 4th grade. I thought it was the perfect age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpidarkomama Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Weird! 9 should be fine for most band instruments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 My dd11 just started flute lessons a month ago. Her teacher is one of the music profs at the uni here, and she's been in the symphony 15+ years. Although some prefer to wait for more breath control (which is fine), she said anywhere between 9 and 11 is perfect. She said they pick it up super quick and honestly, in a matter of 2 weeks my dd's breath control and capacity (does that make sense?) improved drastically. I don't see why that salesperson turned you away. I'd just thank them and move on to a different store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cylau Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thank you so much for all the responses! DS9 doesn't have all his permanent teeth in yet. He has 4 bottom and 2 upper permanent teeth, but he is still waiting for the 2 upper to fall out. So does that mean he cannot play flute or other band instrument yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thank you so much for all the responses! DS9 doesn't have all his permanent teeth in yet. He has 4 bottom and 2 upper permanent teeth, but he is still waiting for the 2 upper to fall out. So does that mean he cannot play flute or other band instrument yet? Flute would be fine. I think that is more about instruments where there is pressure on the front teeth (clarinet, trumpet, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Flute is fine even without permanent teeth. Some Suzuki flute teachers begin students as early as 4-5 years old, on a modified instrument, and then move to a standard flute at age 9-10 when the child has long enough arms and enough strength to manage one. Woodwinds with reeds, however, require a solid embouchure, and this requires those front teeth be in place, so it's recommended to wait until the front permanent teeth have grown in. Even playing recorder with a missing front tooth can be hard, and recorder doesn't require a strong bite in the same way clarinet does. It's also recommended for brass instruments because the teeth form the foundation on which the lips rest to vibrate, and with a hole there, you'll get an uneven vibration and possible air leaks. It's possible, but it's a lot harder, which isn't what you want to give a beginner. Having said this, a good teacher can teach a child to work around almost anything, sometimes with the help of a dentist. I have had students who had custom-made shields due to having certain types of orthodontia, to protect both the lips AND the dental work, and I imagine something similar could work for a missing tooth while the permanent one grows in. If a child really, really wants to start, I'd see if that is an option. Edited February 20, 2011 by Dmmetler2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emubird Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Thank you so much for all the responses! DS9 doesn't have all his permanent teeth in yet. He has 4 bottom and 2 upper permanent teeth, but he is still waiting for the 2 upper to fall out. So does that mean he cannot play flute or other band instrument yet? My daughter started trumpet at 7-1/2. I'm sure she didn't have all her teeth in yet. She had very late teeth. I have heard from one person who started flute early, that it messed up the joints in her hand from too much reaching for the keys. I don't know if that's really what happened, or just what she believed, but it might be worth thinking about. (As an adult, her finger joints do a look a little out of whack.) My second daughter really, really wanted to learn flute when she was 5. I got her a flute to play with, but it really was kind of frustrating for her. Instead, she played recorder for awhile (along with piano and violin). Then she took up flute at 12 -- and learned really fast. There is a flute with a curved headjoint that brings the keys closer in, so the stretch isn't as difficult -- but the keys are still the same distance apart. I think your best bet would be to try a flute and see if he "fits" it. Otherwise, if he's not going into a band program immed. but really wants something flute like (and the recorder doesn't interest him), you can get a plastic fife that Yamaha sells (I think it has recorder fingering). I've known a number of flute teachers that start their kids on those. (And others start on regular recorders.) The nice thing about starting on recorder is that it starts to teach breath control. (Although the breath use on recorder vs flute is pretty different, there's still some carryover.) But I'm not convinced a lack of permanent teeth would have a huge impact. He might learn to play one way, and then, as they grow in, he'll change his embouchure. Kids do this when they get braces too. As far as not being able to reach the end of the slide on the trombone, ehh, I wouldn't really worry about it. They do grow into it. There's only a couple notes that a kid wouldn't be able to reach. They could just play a bit sharp for awhile on those notes. If you're worried about the teeth, go to a music store and try out a trombone. See how he does with it. And in general, nobody starts on tuba until they get to high school and can borrow the tuba that the school owns. Tuba players have generally started on trumpet or trombone for a few years. All that said, though, there's no harm waiting a year or two. The older kids do tend to learn a bit faster, so they catch up to those who started younger. But if he's eager to do it now, there's no harm in starting him at this age. And it's a pretty standard age to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 It all depends on the instrument. There is a level of physical maturity needed in order to actually play some of them - literally a size, length of arm, hand span, etc. need for some. Oboe, clarinet, trumpet would all be okay and even french horn. Trombone - not so much - many of the slide positions would be outside the reach of a nine year - as a former band director whose bands began in 5th grade, I had small kids I had to turn down for beginning the trombone due to this. Tuba - I practically made them lift weights in front of me since most parents don't purchase tubas - due to the expense - and use the school tuba. I didn't want the instrument being dropped and banged around all the time because it was too wieldy for the student. Flute is another one - the hand needs to be fairly petite in terms of finger size - but the hand span must be decent if one is going to start on an openhole which I highly recommend. However, it might be accomplished early with a closed hole instrument. The only problem is that closed hole makes for sloppy technic and close hole flutes do not have as nice of tone so eventually it is wise for a flutist who is serious to move up to an open hole. If they've played on a closed hole, there can be some real frustration for several months. Zylophone and snare drum are good ones for younger children. Oboe can be tough and many band directors will not start even a 5th or 6th grader on it directly - usually put them on flute or clarinet first (flute fingerings in one octave are the same and in the next octave similar so it's an easy conversion to make for a mature player). But, I've seen motivated kids start out on oboe successfully as long as they stick to the number 1 at most, number 2 reeds and they are heavily soaked and possibly even shaved slightly thinner. Violin is wonderful for younger students because you can purchase them in half and 3/4 size. Yes, you end up having to buy more than one violin but you don't have to buy anything really high quality for those early years and wait until the move into a full size to spend for a higher quality instrument. So, much is just going to depend on the size of the child. Also, for what it is worth - Reed instrument players do very well with an overbite. As a matter of fact, once braces go on to correct jaw alignment, I've seen a lot of kids struggle to play their instrument for many, many weeks. They finally adjust to the braces and then once the bite moves significantly, they are practically starting all over again to learn to produce good tone with this new jaw position. As the jaw is constantly shifting while the braces are on, it means a constant adjustment. Also, palette expanders can really bother wind players. So, if your nine year old is going to be getting one of those anytime soon, you might want to wait until after the palette expander comes out before starting a non-percussion or string instrument. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Flute is another one - the hand needs to be fairly petite in terms of finger size - but the hand span must be decent if one is going to start on an openhole which I highly recommend. However, it might be accomplished early with a closed hole instrument. The only problem is that closed hole makes for sloppy technic and close hole flutes do not have as nice of tone so eventually it is wise for a flutist who is serious to move up to an open hole. If they've played on a closed hole, there can be some real frustration for several months. That's a bit different than our experience. Every one of the students in dd's studio, as well as all of the students in her youth orchestras (12 students, all different teachers, including two symphony orchestra musicians) have started on closed hole and moved to open hole only when they were ready to make the jump to trying out for orchestras or serious high school competitions. Maybe it's a regional thing, but that's how its done here. It took dd about two weeks to adjust to her open hole, because her teacher had always insisted on good form. Just another POV, OP, in case you decide to go with flute. Edited February 20, 2011 by angela in ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi Angela, I was speaking from the viewpoint of a school band director. Yes, it is different if a child is taking private lessons from an expert in a music studio in which the student is heavily coached on proper technique. In most school instances or in community/school of music bands in which the student isn't getting very much coaching on the instrument or does not have access to an actual flute teacher (since I no longer teach, there isn't one in a three county area here), most of the students starting on a closed hole instrument have a disaster going on when they move to an open hole instrument because it's been pretty rare in our neck of the woods for a band director to have any extensive knowledge of the flute. So, I should have qualified my statements that I was looking at it from a group learning experience/band director's perspective. I still would not recommend starting on a closed hole flute unless one had access to a really great flute teacher - if you've got an expert who's good with kids, then that would be great. Sorry for any confusion. I was speaking from personal experience and what is common practice and normal situations in the areas I've taught in. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Hi Angela, I was speaking from the viewpoint of a school band director. Yes, it is different if a child is taking private lessons from an expert in a music studio in which the student is heavily coached on proper technique. In most school instances or in community/school of music bands in which the student isn't getting very much coaching on the instrument or does not have access to an actual flute teacher (since I no longer teach, there isn't one in a three county area here), most of the students starting on a closed hole instrument have a disaster going on when they move to an open hole instrument because it's been pretty rare in our neck of the woods for a band director to have any extensive knowledge of the flute. So, I should have qualified my statements that I was looking at it from a group learning experience/band director's perspective. I still would not recommend starting on a closed hole flute unless one had access to a really great flute teacher - if you've got an expert who's good with kids, then that would be great. Sorry for any confusion. I was speaking from personal experience and what is common practice and normal situations in the areas I've taught in. Faith I played closed hole from 6th-8th grade. I moved to open hole in 9th grade with no transition. It took me a little bit of time (maybe a few months), but I had no real problems. I never had a private teacher and never had any real coaching on moving to open hole. I just did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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