BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm Catholic, adherent and actively practicing. I did not choose to homeschool for religious reasons and I can't say that I am selecting curriculum in order to integrate Catholicism into our homeschool. In fact, I am almost trying to avoid religious homeschooling materials (like MFW or HOD) simply because I don't want the hassle of trying to tweak the religious instruction that is included. I suppose I also feel that science should be based on scientific investigative principles and not anything else - what do we know from what we can observe and learn from our environment, and so on. I want my children to be Christians, of course, but I also think they have to want and seek that for themselves. I can hold a candle and try and light their way a bit but I can't force them into faith. Is there anyone else like this out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeperof3 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm right there with you. After several years of tweaking, I went with all Catholic this year. We have now ditched it all, except for Faith & Life. My local Catholic friends are a bit shocked!! We all have to do what we feel is best for our family. Blessings, Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes, our homeschooling is secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That makes me feel so much better. I'm Christian, and of course I want my kids to be as well. But I do think they have to make that choice themselves, and I don't want to inundate them with only Christian learning materials. I try to choose mostly secular curriculum, and we have a family Bible study every week... but that's not "school" for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I avoid the overtly religious stuff. I have used/do use some that's not secular (Apologia), but I work to minimize the religious aspect of it. I don't want all or most of our materials to come from a religious perspective, but one or two programs that I can tweek is do-able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes. Our homeschool is very similar to what you described. My faith is VERY, VERY strong but I do not select curr based on the depth of religious instruction. One of my kids uses HOD and I like parts of it but we leave off most of the bible and some of the science. My husband is a scientist (and a Christian) and he wants our kids to understand "secular science" (for lack of a better phrase) even if they choose to disagree with it. I know several families in the area who are in similar situations so I do not feel alone in my thinking. Homeschooling is an incredibly diverse journey and I am thankful for the many options out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 I have to admit that I haven't even allowed myself to look at Apologia because I've read of the Ken Ham association... and I just can't personally go there yet. It does appear to be the only science curriculum really promoted around the WTM forums aside from BFSU (which Amazon is delivering tomorrow!) but that will only take us so far. I'm sure I will check out Apologia at some point but if it is in any way, shape or form Young Earth I'm just not certain I can tweak it enough to work for us! This is total ignorance about the curriculum writing here, so take these thoughts for exactly what they're worth. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plagefille Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Ours is secular too. We do have scripture and hymn study in the morning. I also might throw in a comment here and there, but that is about all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I have to admit that I haven't even allowed myself to look at Apologia because I've read of the Ken Ham association... and I just can't personally go there yet. It does appear to be the only science curriculum really promoted around the WTM forums aside from BFSU (which Amazon is delivering tomorrow!) but that will only take us so far. I'm sure I will check out Apologia at some point but if it is in any way, shape or form Young Earth I'm just not certain I can tweak it enough to work for us! This is total ignorance about the curriculum writing here, so take these thoughts for exactly what they're worth. :tongue_smilie: If your kids already have a good base in evolution...here's what I do. I sit down with the Apologia textbook and sharpie and a cross out the over the top refrences to God, or his design. It's not that I don't want them to understand that view...it just permeates the materials and is really distracting. Other than that, I LOVE the way it is put together and that we can do it as a read aloud, add experiements, or do the journal/lapbooking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I have to admit that I haven't even allowed myself to look at Apologia because I've read of the Ken Ham association... and I just can't personally go there yet. It does appear to be the only science curriculum really promoted around the WTM forums aside from BFSU (which Amazon is delivering tomorrow!) but that will only take us so far. I'm sure I will check out Apologia at some point but if it is in any way, shape or form Young Earth I'm just not certain I can tweak it enough to work for us! This is total ignorance about the curriculum writing here, so take these thoughts for exactly what they're worth. :tongue_smilie: I do not know anything about BFSU but my son is using Singapore Science and he loves it. It is not at all like Apologia, it is a textbook and workbook combination and has workbook lines to fill in. Another you could consider is Noeo. It is by a Christian family but not overtly Christian in nature.....in fact I think they have an interesting philosopy about it all. Noeo is more Charlotte Mason in approach, with living books. I hope you can find something that fits for your family! Keep looking if BFSU does not work. ETA: Here is the link to Noeo's science phil. http://www.noeoscience.com/about_us.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Catholics homeschooling secular here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wilhelm Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yup! We're Christian Scientists and the religious stuff just doesn't work out well with us... too many things to tweak. So we tend to try and keep it Secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm Catholic, adherent and actively practicing. I did not choose to homeschool for religious reasons and I can't say that I am selecting curriculum in order to integrate Catholicism into our homeschool. In fact, I am almost trying to avoid religious homeschooling materials (like MFW or HOD) simply because I don't want the hassle of trying to tweak the religious instruction that is included. I suppose I also feel that science should be based on scientific investigative principles and not anything else - what do we know from what we can observe and learn from our environment, and so on. I want my children to be Christians, of course, but I also think they have to want and seek that for themselves. I can hold a candle and try and light their way a bit but I can't force them into faith. Is there anyone else like this out there? I could have written your post word for word.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Other than that, I LOVE the way it is put together and that we can do it as a read aloud, add experiements, or do the journal/lapbooking. :iagree: If and when you have the patience to tweek.....it is an excellent series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 If your kids already have a good base in evolution...here's what I do. I sit down with the Apologia textbook and sharpie and a cross out the over the top refrences to God, or his design. It's not that I don't want them to understand that view...it just permeates the materials and is really distracting. Other than that, I LOVE the way it is put together and that we can do it as a read aloud, add experiements, or do the journal/lapbooking. My oldest is too little for "meaty" science yet. She still believes Mary Poppins is not only real but is going to show up at any moment to take her flying in the clouds with her umbrella. :D Fact vs. fiction is going to be a big part of our homeschool focus next year with history, science and geography! Thanks for explaining the positives of Apologia. I'm really surprised that there isn't a secular alternative that is similar. In this one area, I can really see just going for textbooks and adding our own experiments. For first grade we are using Harmony Mom's Handbook of Nature Study seasonal unit study series with Shining Dawn unit supplements (Fruit and Nuts for autumn, snow and ice for winter, butterflies for spring, plant cycles for summer). It is going to be very CM style science for the kids during early elementary ed, probably until 3rd grade or so. I'm tying in Little Acorn Learning and Seasons of Joy's monthly/seasonal Waldorf curriculum with songs, finger plays, crafts and things here and there. We've used the Waldorf preK/K curriculum for several years - long before I discovered WTM and I love it so much I cannot let it go for my littles. That gives me a few years to figure out "meaty" science. I am also looking forward to getting BFSU in the mail and seeing what it has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 When I pulled my kids home (so they were a bit older than yours) I realized we had to do some indepth work on evolution/prehistory. For an entire quarter we shelved all history and science and really focused on this. There are some great books I picked up at the library for this...all the era's were laid out, then we watched some netflix video's to flesh it out. Add in fossil activities and it is really fun! Then whenever we come across creationism it's really easy for me to say, "Remember when we studied the different eras? This is another theory." and we just keep cruising along. I will give you a heads up. When you hit "middle ages," You will probly incorporate a lot more religion!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The Apologia Physical Science text, the one we're using, teaches certain aspects of why young earth theory may be legitimate; it also teaches aspects of why old earth theory is legitimate. I'm pretty sure a purely secular text wouldn't mention any aspect of young earth theory, and that, among other reasons, is why I like Apologia. We're old earth folks in my house, but I appreciate understanding the other point of view. Because we are Christians, I don't have a problem with the occasional reference to "God's design". It seems innocuous to me. So, if any reference to God in the context of science offends you, Apologia probably isn't the way to go. I've never heard of Ken Hamm. I work pretty hard at NOT listening to intently to anyone's opinion on any particular program. I trust my own lying eyes and make my own judgements based on actually looking at the materials. I attend our hs conference every year for just this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We are Catholics but homeschool for academic reasons and I use mostly secular materials. I have been underwhelmed by most of the Catholic materials I've seen/tried. I do like the Catholic Schools Textbook Project book that we are using as a "spine" for American History (From Sea to Shining Sea) and plan to use Light to the Nations as my oldest's logic stage "spine" for the next cycle through world history. I would also love to give Kolbe's literature courses a try but they are so pricey and I'm not sure we will have the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 When I pulled my kids home (so they were a bit older than yours) I realized we had to do some indepth work on evolution/prehistory. For an entire quarter we shelved all history and science and really focused on this. There are some great books I picked up at the library for this...all the era's were laid out, then we watched some netflix video's to flesh it out. Add in fossil activities and it is really fun! Then whenever we come across creationism it's really easy for me to say, "Remember when we studied the different eras? This is another theory." and we just keep cruising along. I will give you a heads up. When you hit "middle ages," You will probly incorporate a lot more religion!!! Thank you! Yes, we are also going to be focusing on past vs. present and helping her understand time and human history in general. I specifically chose the historical period we are starting with (Colonial American/Am. Revolution) because we live right where it happened and I think she's going to need tangible, in person visits to "get it". At this point there is no difference in her mind to Colonial Williamsburg as a living history museum and Disney World and meeting Princess Aurora. Which I honestly don't think is such a bad thing at this point, but by the end of first grade she's got to have a better handle on human history vs. human fantasy. :) Now that I am shopping for curriculum and trying to plan our years ahead, let me tell you there is SO MUCH I want my kids to know and I just hope the 12 years I've got to formally school them is going to be enough time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Because we are Christians, I don't have a problem with the occasional reference to "God's design". It seems innocuous to me. So, if any reference to God in the context of science offends you, Apologia probably isn't the way to go. I've never heard of Ken Hamm. I work pretty hard at NOT listening to intently to anyone's opinion on any particular program. I trust my own lying eyes and make my own judgements based on actually looking at the materials. I attend our hs conference every year for just this purpose. Nope, doesn't offend me at all, however, I need some basis for scientific belief to be more than "the Bible says this is so". I do not personally believe that the Bible is the sole source of inspired revelation, the Church compiled the Bible and also has sacred Tradition. I am free to believe that the creation story in Genesis is allegorical, and I do. :) Ken Ham is the guy who is building the Creation Museum: http://creationmuseum.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 At least, IMO they offer good quality materials. :D We've used many of their study guides and literature guides and were really happy with them. Just a thought. http://hillsideeducation.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6 We are Catholics but homeschool for academic reasons and I use mostly secular materials. I have been underwhelmed by most of the Catholic materials I've seen/tried. I do like the Catholic Schools Textbook Project book that we are using as a "spine" for American History (From Sea to Shining Sea) and plan to use Light to the Nations as my oldest's logic stage "spine" for the next cycle through world history. I would also love to give Kolbe's literature courses a try but they are so pricey and I'm not sure we will have the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 :seeya: Me too. I'm a pretty liberal Christian (though my family attends a UU church - but that's another story...). Our reasons for homeschooling have little to do with religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Dh and are long time, devoted Christians. But, we don't fit any of the typical "christian" stereotypes and are kind of Protestant and a bit EO leaning. I double majored in philosophy in college along with my music, so I tend to think pretty deeply about religious theology and logic, etc. If Christian curriculums were by in large prepared to stick to the basics, the Apostles Creed/Nicene Creed and do an excellent job with the academics, I'd be happy. But, this is not the case. That's not to say I don't use any religious curriculum I really like Rod and Staff Math coupled with Singapore Math for those early years. I also like Rod and Staff for pure grammar in those same ages. Fortunately, our children live in a rural area with a large Mennonite as well as Amish community and we've been able to have a lot of important discussions about these faiths, religious freedoms, etc. But, by sixth grade, we exit these curriculums because of the increasing "slant". I want their religious instruction to come from us directly. I do not use a Bible curriculum of any kind for this reason. We read and study the Bible together and then discuss important religious writings (Augustine, Bede, etc.) as they come up in our Great Books Study. I choose secular history and try very hard to use authors that give it the "ole college try" to not be biased. SWB for example. Dh and I are pretty die hard classical educators and we try to use the best curriculum evaluated on the basis of academics that meets the learning needs of each child. So, this means that there is some "Christian" curriculum in the house along with a lot of secular curriculum. We don't believe in any revisionist history of the founders of the U.S. They were who they were. Men with a vision, some of it really wonderful, some of it not so good, hopelessly flawed like everyone else, definitely not all of them Christians and many of them barely subscribing to deism. This alone has put us at odds with a lot of Christian educators, and along with other issues has made us a bit more at home with secular homeschoolers. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k2bdeutmeyer Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I am a very strong non-denominational Christian and find it very important for my children to be brought up the same. However, I am quite uncomfortable with a lot of the "in your face-ness" of some of the Christian curriculum. We have ended up with a few Christian curriculum choices (CLE and Horizons math, BJU science, etc.), but it was because of the content or style, NOT the fact that they were Christian. We acknowledge the Christian aspect, but minimize it for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 :seeya: Representing the Christian Secular homeschoolers here. I love Jesus, I'm just not too fond of religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 We don't believe in any revisionist history of the founders of the U.S. They were who they were. Men with a vision, some of it really wonderful, some of it not so good, hopelessly flawed like everyone else, definitely not all of them Christians and many of them barely subscribing to deism. This alone has put us at odds with a lot of Christian educators, and along with other issues has made us a bit more at home with secular homeschoolers. Faith Yes, totally agree. I am always a little surprised to see how ardently so many Christians cling to the idea that "the Founding Fathers" were Christians when that is not necessarily the case and a read of even a brief biography of one or two of them would make that pretty clear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We are also Catholic and secularly homeschooling as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celia Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hmmm. I always start the day with a Bible story and a prayer, although I would do that even if the kids were in ps. None of my hs'ing material is religious though, so I guess my homeschool is secular, although I do hs partly for moral/religious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes, our homeschooling is secular. I'm wondering what you mean by "secular". I think of it as meaning "without regard for God" so it would be a mindset which dismisses and does not include any reference to God and does not regard any revelation from Scripture as being truth. It's hard for me to imagine homeschooling as a christian and calling it secular, regardless of whether any particular book I used was labeled as "secular " or not, since I regard everything in life to be part of Gods creation. I do not even consider a walk around my own home, or outside, to be a "secular" activity, as God gives me the breath and life to breath, he created my home, and the outdoors and everything. I know many, if not most Christians, view some activities as "secular" and some as "christian" or "religious", however, I do not think that is a Biblical concept. The Bible tells us that whatever we do, do it as unto Him. I don't really think it's anymore "spiritual", for example, to work as a missionary, than it is to wash dishes for your family. ALL of life is a gift from the Lord and to be lived to Him. However, if something is being done in a way that is dishonoring the Lord, and purposely disregarding Him, than maybe that IS secular. Also, I think many use the term who do consider ALL of life is to be lived for Him, not categorized into compartments - some for Him, some not , but they use the term "secular" sometimes just to communicate if something does have content not in line with Scripture. I'm probably not very clear on what I am really trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I'm wondering what you mean by "secular". I think of it as meaning "without regard for God" so it would be a mindset which dismisses and does not include any reference to God and does not regard any revelation from Scripture as being truth.It's hard for me to imagine homeschooling as a christian and calling it secular, regardless of whether any particular book I used was labeled as "secular " or not, since I regard everything in life to be part of Gods creation. I do not even consider a walk around my own home, or outside, to be a "secular" activity, as God gives me the breath and life to breath, he created my home, and the outdoors and everything. I know many, if not most Christians, view some activities as "secular" and some as "christian" or "religious", however, I do not think that is a Biblical concept. The Bible tells us that whatever we do, do it as unto Him. I don't really think it's anymore "spiritual", for example, to work as a missionary, than it is to wash dishes for your family. ALL of life is a gift from the Lord and to be lived to Him. However, if something is being done in a way that is dishonoring the Lord, and purposely disregarding Him, than maybe that IS secular. Also, I think many use the term who do consider ALL of life is to be lived for Him, not categorized into compartments - some for Him, some not , but they use the term "secular" sometimes just to communicate if something does have content not in line with Scripture. I'm probably not very clear on what I am really trying to say. When I say "secular" I mean that we do not teach religious content in our science classes and we are cautious with civics and history to be unbiased and fact based. We do use SotW so of course history classes are not free of religion. We teach old earth and do not include creation science in science. If we read our Bibles or discuss scripture that is seperate. We do use Latina Christiana so I wouldn't say we are "completely secular" Edited February 2, 2011 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) When I say "secular" I mean that we do not teach any religious content in our science or civics classes. We do not teach creation science. We teach old earth. If we read our Bibles or discuss scripture that is seperate. Thank you Sis. I was wondering what Simka2 means by secular, because I am under the impression that she is a Christian. I just think the term is used differently by different people. I think she will have something interesting to say if she see's this and responds. It will be interesting to see how different people define secular. I don't think we all define it the same way. Edited February 2, 2011 by Miss Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Miss Sherry, I thought that the title of the OP was not worded quite the way I would say it either. I mainly do my own secular curriculum (From K to 2nd grade). We are currently trying one year of HOD (for 3rd grade) and then I plan to go back to our own secular curriculum. Science for high school is scary, but I am trying not to think about it. Edited February 2, 2011 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG580 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm wondering what you mean by "secular". I think of it as meaning "without regard for God" so it would be a mindset which dismisses and does not include any reference to God and does not regard any revelation from Scripture as being truth. In this instance I mean that my homeschool is not going to be focused on a specific religious indoctrination of my children via curriculum. I will present curriculum that teaches them what is necessary to become well educated and I will model in my daily life and actions my faith, but I will not seek out curriculum that tells them about that faith in a structured way. I'm not saying my children will not receive a religious education - we attend Mass a few times per week, we read about the saint for each calendar day, we say our prayers, pray the Rosary often, etc. My kids will all participate in CCD at our parish, volunteer, participate in various parish co-op activities, and my son will serve as an altar boy. Our lives are structured by the liturgical year, are lived on the principles of my religion and the actions it demands of me, and I think that is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Thank you Sis.I was wondering what Simka2 means by secular, because I am under the impression that she is a Christian. I just think the term is used differently by different people. I think she will have something interesting to say if she see's this and responds. It will be interesting to see how different people define secular. I don't think we all define it the same way. I edited a bit. :lol: I don't think any Christian would be truly secular but when we apply the word I usually mean in regard to science in particular. I do find that some of the Christian curriculem is not actually fact based. I have a deep love of history and when things are twisted or misinterpreted to satisfy an agenda, even if I happen to be on the same side religiously as that agenda it isn't something that I feel I can present to my child as worthy of them. I only want my child exposed to the truth, if it doesn't always say what I want then that is something for us to learn from, not to gloss over. Edited February 2, 2011 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes, we fall into this category too. We homeschool because we felt led to it, so I guess you could call that a 'religious' reason, but I didn't pull my kids out because I was worried about them being taught something contrary to our family beliefs either, if that makes sense. We are Christian, but as LDS, we have some different viewpoints from mainstream Christianity. I tend to avoid a lot of Christian based curriculum so I don't have to bend it to fit our needs. I'd rather start with a secular curriculum and add it in as needed. We do religious instruction in our home--we talk about our beliefs, have family prayer, hold Family Home Evening (an LDS thing--we set aside one night a week to spend as a family and usually have a religious lesson of some sort), but it's sort of separate from our school stuff, though we do get into it a little in science. We're studying the human body right now, so we talk about what a marvelous creation the body is, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 In this instance I mean that my homeschool is not going to be focused on a specific religious indoctrination of my children via curriculum. I will present curriculum that teaches them what is necessary to become well educated and I will model in my daily life and actions my faith, but I will not seek out curriculum that tells them about that faith in a structured way. This is beautifully put. Thank you. For us, some subjects are just not inclined towards faith discussions. Grammar is just grammar. Math is just math. History is just history. Science is just science. There are some sources that are better than others and the faith aspect does not make an unworkable curr. more acceptable just because it has reference to scripture. Certainly there will be discussions about various religious ideas, thoughts and stories within each of these subjects (if it is appropriate) but I am confident that even if there were not that my children will have a clear path to a personal relationship with God anyway. I get tired of unneccessary repetition and I am sure that my kids would eventually wonder about my surety of beliefs if I continued to remind them of my Christian beliefs in subject where you have to work really hard to make it seem topical (for example grammar). These are just a few thoughts that may help clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I edited a bit. :lol: I don't think any Christian would be truly secular but when we apply the word I usually mean in regard to science in particular. I do find that some of the Christian curriculem is not actually fact based. I have a deep love of history and when things are twisted or misinterpreted to satisfy an agenda, even if I happen to be on the same side religiously as that agenda it isn't something that I feel I can present to my child as worthy of them. I only want my child exposed to the truth, if it doesn't always say what I want then that is something for us to learn from, not to gloss over. If the history we are presenting is not actually fact based, whether it is labeled "christian" or not, it is not really honoring to God, is it ? I hope to give my child lessons in history which are correct, but since I am not a historian myself I often wonder if what I am presenting is really reliable or not. So I do the best I can. But I will say I especially do not trust some of the "history" I've read that makes all of the founding fathers and other early Americans sound like perfect saints. It certainly does appear to be written to fit an agenda rather than truthfully tell the story of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I'm wondering what you mean by "secular". I think of it as meaning "without regard for God" so it would be a mindset which dismisses and does not include any reference to God and does not regard any revelation from Scripture as being truth. I think our difference is in the above definition. I don't define secular as "without regard for God." That is already a negative definition (I think). I prefer something a bit more clinical..."without religion." Yes, my personal faith will permiate every place I set foot, but when it comes to "academics" I prefer them free of religious refrences or in the case of history I would prefer them to fall into 1 of 2 camps. 1 being sterilized and clinical facts, 2 being myths, fairytales or first hand sources. (granted this will not be possible thru much of history...hence we will be doing a lot of discussions.) It's hard for me to imagine homeschooling as a christian and calling it secular, regardless of whether any particular book I used was labeled as "secular " or not, since I regard everything in life to be part of Gods creation. Actually, it's quite the opposite for me. I may use a "christian" curriculum, and purposely edit out religous issues that are not relevant to the subject. Here's my dh's (pastor) example: 2+2=4 and we know this because our wonderful God had the the animals walk two by two! It's just unneccesary ;) I do not even consider a walk around my own home, or outside, to be a "secular" activity, as God gives me the breath and life to breath, he created my home, and the outdoors and everything. I know many, if not most Christians, view some activities as "secular" and some as "christian" or "religious", however, I do not think that is a Biblical concept. Again a difference in definition. The Bible tells us that whatever we do, do it as unto Him. I'll adress this below. I don't really think it's anymore "spiritual", for example, to work as a missionary, than it is to wash dishes for your family. ALL of life is a gift from the Lord and to be lived to Him. I agree. However, if something is being done in a way that is dishonoring the Lord, and purposely disregarding Him, than maybe that IS secular. I disagree with this definition. Also, I think many use the term who do consider ALL of life is to be lived for Him, not categorized into compartments - some for Him, some not , but they use the term "secular" sometimes just to communicate if something does have content not in line with Scripture. Again, this is a bit negative a view for me. Who's scripture, which version, Protestant...Catholic...EO? and not everyone believes that the scriptures are the only source for spiritual guidance. I'm probably not very clear on what I am really trying to say. Since I believe God is bigger than religion. My view of a secular homeschool does not necessarily mean without God's presence, just without overt religion. I hope I did an okay job of explaining. Way to put me on the spot :D! Edited February 2, 2011 by simka2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 In this instance I mean that my homeschool is not going to be focused on a specific religious indoctrination of my children via curriculum. I will present curriculum that teaches them what is necessary to become well educated and I will model in my daily life and actions my faith, but I will not seek out curriculum that tells them about that faith in a structured way. I'm not saying my children will not receive a religious education - we attend Mass a few times per week, we read about the saint for each calendar day, we say our prayers, pray the Rosary often, etc. My kids will all participate in CCD at our parish, volunteer, participate in various parish co-op activities, and my son will serve as an altar boy. Our lives are structured by the liturgical year, are lived on the principles of my religion and the actions it demands of me, and I think that is enough. :iagree:Yup. I edited a bit. :lol: I don't think any Christian would be truly secular but when we apply the word I usually mean in regard to science in particular. I do find that some of the Christian curriculem is not actually fact based. I have a deep love of history and when things are twisted or misinterpreted to satisfy an agenda, even if I happen to be on the same side religiously as that agenda it isn't something that I feel I can present to my child as worthy of them. I only want my child exposed to the truth, if it doesn't always say what I want then that is something for us to learn from, not to gloss over. :iagree:yup! For us, some subjects are just not inclined towards faith discussions. Grammar is just grammar. Math is just math. History is just history. Science is just science. There are some sources that are better than others and the faith aspect does not make an unworkable curr. more acceptable just because it has reference to scripture. Certainly there will be discussions about various religious ideas, thoughts and stories within each of these subjects (if it is appropriate) but I am confident that even if there were not that my children will have a clear path to a personal relationship with God anyway. I get tired of unneccessary repetition and I am sure that my kids would eventually wonder about my surety of beliefs if I continued to remind them of my Christian beliefs in subject where you have to work really hard to make it seem topical (for example grammar). These are just a few thoughts that may help clarify. You guys put this very well! much better than I did ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I get tired of unneccessary repetition and I am sure that my kids would eventually wonder about my surety of beliefs if I continued to remind them of my Christian beliefs in subject where you have to work really hard to make it seem topical (for example grammar). These are just a few thoughts that may help clarify. Something that I thought was really silly and contrived when it comes to "christian" curriculum was when, for example, I saw a math workbook for early elementary children with scripture on the worksheet pages. It seemed that the publisher felt a need to add a scripture to every page to MAKE it "christian". Math worksheets do not need scriptures added to the pages to somehow make them worthy of being part of a God honoring educational activity. That's just silly. I think that may be a by product of compartmentalizing our lives between what is "spiritual" or "christian" and what is "secular". Some people compartmentalize their lives to the point that they think only the really "spiritual/religious" things they do have any value. But the ancient Hebrews did not do this. If you were not thankful for and enjoyed all of your life that God gave you, you would be considered UNGrateful to Him. I think we should consider all of our life - even learning to do math, as a gift from Him, and adding a "scripture" doesn't make it a gift from Him. It's already a gift from Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 You guys put this very well! much better than I did ;) I thought you did fantastic!!! I love these boards and all the diversity of thought!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Something that I thought was really silly and contrived when it comes to "christian" curriculum was when, for example, I saw a math workbook for early elementary children with scripture on the worksheet pages. It seemed that the publisher felt a need to add a scripture to every page to MAKE it "christian". Math worksheets do not need scriptures added to the pages to somehow make them worthy of being part of a God honoring educational activity. That's just silly. I think that may be a by product of compartmentalizing our lives between what is "spiritual" or "christian" and what is "secular". Some people compartmentalize their lives to the point that they think only the really "spiritual/religious" things they do have any value. But the ancient Hebrews did not do this. If you were not thankful for and enjoyed all of your life that God gave you, you would be considered UNGrateful to Him. I think we should consider all of our life - even learning to do math, as a gift from Him, and adding a "scripture" doesn't make it a gift from Him. It's already a gift from Him. Yes!!!! Okay were on the same page, just working from opposite ends of the definition ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think that may be a by product of compartmentalizing our lives between what is "spiritual" or "christian" and what is "secular". Some people compartmentalize their lives to the point that they think only the really "spiritual/religious" things they do have any value. :hurray::hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Yes!!!! Okay were on the same page, just working from opposite ends of the definition ;) I wanted to add that, it's not that I find having a scripture printed on a worksheet to be offensive, as if I have something against my child reading a scripture verse, it's just that I do not believe we need to "spiritualize/or make religious" every subject or activity in relation to our child's education in order to consider it "christian". Actually, I don't think it's really possible to educate your child without some type of world view being communicated. I do not think that education is simply neutral. I think everyone has a world view, whether it has been analyzed,labeled and defined or not. Edited February 2, 2011 by Miss Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It seemed that the publisher felt a need to add a scripture to every page to MAKE it "christian". Math worksheets do not need scriptures added to the pages to somehow make them worthy of being part of a God honoring educational activity. That's just silly. I agree. I can also confidently extend this belief to other sujects, such as science. I do not need my kids to have scripture attached to each scientific lesson in order for them to be learning truth. As a person comfortable with a Christian believing an old earth creation story, I do not feel the need to shore up my kids against "secular science" by teaching them from a Christian science text. We have used Christian science curr. but it is not a defining requirement of my selection and a Christian perspective can (depending on its approach) work against my selecting it in some circumstances. And, I hesitate to add this but it begs to be said, there are some subjects that will always present with bias and that is inevitable. Better to teach your kids to navigate it than to try to protect them from it. (This is a statement made by a Canadian living in the US, who does not have a providential view of American history and yet still teaches American history to my kids with American texts that potentially hold that view.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaffodilDreams Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes, we believe in God, but we feel comfortable with a secular education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yes, we believe in God, but we feel comfortable with a secular education. Do you care to share what "you" mean by secular ? I think that secular is a term that is used in a variety of ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I wanted to add that, it's not that I find having a scripture printed on a worksheet to be offensive, as if I have something against my child reading a scripture verse, it's just that I do not believe we need to "spiritualize/or make religious" every subject or activity in relation to our child's education in order to consider it "christian". Actually, I don't think it's really possible to educate your child without some type of world view being communicated. I do not think that education is simply neutral. I think everyone has a world view, whether it has been analyzed,labeled and defined or not. If I follow your logic...then if my child goes to public school, but has a christian teacher...they are getting a christian education? Her world view would be communicated and the education wouldn't be secular? Do you see what I am getting at? I understand what you are saying, but I do think there is a line between secular materials and overtly christian ones. And I'm not saying that secular is bad. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We don't use much religious curriculum. And, if we do....I just tweak it to fit our needs. But most of our stuff is not religious in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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