A couple of questions about Nourishing Traditions I didn't see answered

[DawnM]

in a search.

 

1. How does it work with weight LOSS? I see several asking about weight gain but I would like to know if one has lost weight while eating full fat, etc.....and how did you do it. I really am looking for people who have actually done this not differing opinions on weight loss from people who haven't actually eaten the NT way.

 

2. How much has your grocery bill increased/decreased eating this way? Have you noticed a difference? Maybe a better question would be, "How much should I plan to spend per person per month" cooking/eating/living this way?

 

3. How much of this would you say you actually implement? 80%? 90%? More? Less?

 

4. If we are not a beef eating family and cannot afford organic chicken or turkey, what would you suggest?

 

I have debated getting the book at all. We aren't big meat eaters, I do like water kefir but I cannot down milk kefir (maybe in a smoothie but even seeing that "snot" going into my smoothie makes me want to gag!), we will NOT be eating any kidney or liver, and I am not even sure I can swing the $6/gallon for raw milk plus the 40 mile trip to get it (r/t).

 

But, I have a gift card for Amazon and this came up as a possibility on my list.

 

Thank you!,

 

Dawn

Thank you!

[Cricket]

If you can control portion size, I think you will lose weight. I've read the book and we probably eat that way about 60% of the time. Because of food allergies, over the last 20 years, I have had to cut out virtually all processed food. I lost weight. Think of all the empty calories you cut out when you stop eating processed food. I always lost weight on the Atkins Diet. Fat has not been a problem for me when dieting. Sugar is bad! People's bodies are different though.

 

Don't stress too much about going organic with meat. I know it would be great but we can't afford it either. You will have health benefits by buying a whole chicken instead of a bag of chicken nuggets whether the whole chicken is organic or not.

[Ravin]

I agree with the portion size thing as far as weight loss. If you cut out processed foods and eat appropriate portions plus get plenty of exercise, your could well lose weight. If you eat like that but still eat some processed foods and don't stay active enough, well, just think about wealthy medieval and 19th century people. Overweight, gout, etc.... (Think Henry VIII or certain U.S. presidents).

 

I also think NT works when applied to different cuisines. Not big meat eaters? Look into cooking more traditional Chinese, Japanese, Mesoamerican, and Indian food. Eat a lot of fruits and veggies--look for a CSA, farmers' markets, or Bountiful Baskets and/or grow your own There are plenty of cultures that have never been heavy on the meat eating. Could you possibly start raising your own small stock (poultry, rabbits)?

 

IF you combine the NT approach with bulk purchases and don't overdo the meat, I'd think it could certainly be a cost effective way to eat.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Ravin

[DawnM]

That is sort of the way we eat already. We eat a lot of veggie dishes with a little meat in it.

 

The things I know about NT (and I don't know much!) have to do with kefir, raw milk, eating tongue, and soaking grains.

 

I don't have the soaking down at all, although I have soaked for dehydrating at times, but I don't normally do it.

 

BUT, you are right about the processed foods...even though our main diet is "healthy" we do eat some sugar and junk and I KNOW that is a lot of my problem.

 

I am digging out my Eat Clean diet book today and heading to Costco to stock up and ditching the stuff we shouldn't be eating.

 

I NEED to lose weight and do some exercise but I need to bump it up. I had planned to starting Jan 1 but I still am not over the residual effects of pneumonia and can't make it through anything with exertion right now!

 

Dawn

 

I agree with the portion size thing as far as weight loss. If you cut out processed foods and eat appropriate portions plus get plenty of exercise, your could well lose weight. If you eat like that but still eat some processed foods and don't stay active enough, well, just think about wealthy medieval and 19th century people. Overweight, gout, etc.... (Think Henry VIII or certain U.S. presidents).

 

I also think NT works when applied to different cuisines. Not big meat eaters? Look into cooking more traditional Chinese, Japanese, Mesoamerican, and Indian food. Eat a lot of fruits and veggies--look for a CSA, farmers' markets, or Bountiful Baskets and/or grow your own There are plenty of cultures that have never been heavy on the meat eating. Could you possibly start raising your own small stock (poultry, rabbits)?

 

IF you combine the NT approach with bulk purchases and don't overdo the meat, I'd think it could certainly be a cost effective way to eat.

[DawnM]

Yes, and this is what I don't understand about the diet industry.....JC and Medifast, etc....all offer highly processed foods!

 

Dawn

 

If you can control portion size, I think you will lose weight. I've read the book and we probably eat that way about 60% of the time. Because of food allergies, over the last 20 years, I have had to cut out virtually all processed food. I lost weight. Think of all the empty calories you cut out when you stop eating processed food. I always lost weight on the Atkins Diet. Fat has not been a problem for me when dieting. Sugar is bad! People's bodies are different though.

 

Don't stress too much about going organic with meat. I know it would be great but we can't afford it either. You will have health benefits by buying a whole chicken instead of a bag of chicken nuggets whether the whole chicken is organic or not.

[Miss Peregrine]

Check out Cooking Traditional Foods

Lots of good info and a menu mailer. Some of the recipes will say to add liver or whatnot but they are always an option and not the main part of the meal.

[Hen]

:bigear:

 

I just purchased this book yesterday, and barely started reading it. I assumed it would just be a cookbook, wrong!

 

I bought it really only for an oatcake recipe, we have a friend who makes them for us when she visits, and I swear I could live on them solely. They are soaked in yogurt over night. -she recommended the book to me.

 

It's a very intriguing book, I am looking forward to learning to cook more healthy. I figure baby steps, and that you don't always have to go "all the way" little changes in the healthy direction are good.

[Mergath]

I'm not a fan. There were a few good things in the book that I liked, but after implementing several of her suggestions, I gained weight. And we have cut out 99% of processed food from our diet. You just can't eat that many calorie-dense foods without gaining.

 

Also, some of her info is pretty misleading. She mentions many cultures who eat all the fat, etc. they want, and are thin and healthy! Of course, what she doesn't tell you is that these people burn many, many times the amount of calories as your average American. It's hard to gain a lot of weight when you have to walk five miles a day to get water, for example.

 

I really, really wanted to love Nourishing Traditions. I tried. But the science just doesn't back up much of what she's saying.

[DawnM]

Thank you for that. I wondered if I might get it and disagree with her.

 

Although I will say that I did notice when I DID buy full fat raw milk that my children tended to drink about half the amount before they were full compared to double the amount of 2% store purchased milk. But DH is skeptical of raw milk and it is sold 20 miles from me, so buying it is a hassle....it is a truck (refrigerated) that comes to this area once per week from noon-1pm, so picking it up is a hassle!

 

I also gain weight very easily and losing is VERY hard for me.

 

Dawn

 

I'm not a fan. There were a few good things in the book that I liked, but after implementing several of her suggestions, I gained weight. And we have cut out 99% of processed food from our diet. You just can't eat that many calorie-dense foods without gaining.

 

Also, some of her info is pretty misleading. She mentions many cultures who eat all the fat, etc. they want, and are thin and healthy! Of course, what she doesn't tell you is that these people burn many, many times the amount of calories as your average American. It's hard to gain a lot of weight when you have to walk five miles a day to get water, for example.

 

I really, really wanted to love Nourishing Traditions. I tried. But the science just doesn't back up much of what she's saying.

[DawnM]

That sounds yummy!

 

I would like to learn more about soaking grains.

 

Dawn

 

:bigear:

 

I just purchased this book yesterday, and barely started reading it. I assumed it would just be a cookbook, wrong!

 

I bought it really only for an oatcake recipe, we have a friend who makes them for us when she visits, and I swear I could live on them solely. They are soaked in yogurt over night. -she recommended the book to me.

 

It's a very intriguing book, I am looking forward to learning to cook more healthy. I figure baby steps, and that you don't always have to go "all the way" little changes in the healthy direction are good.

[DawnM]

Thanks. I have taken a look. It is good....I just really like a real book....I mark these types of books up!

 

Dawn

 

Check out Cooking Traditional Foods

Lots of good info and a menu mailer. Some of the recipes will say to add liver or whatnot but they are always an option and not the main part of the meal.

[Peela]

I too am a bit dubious about the whole NT thing nowadays. I find that much fat at all in my diet makes me put on weight. I do naturally do better on a lower fat diet- however I have no problem agreeing that saturated fat foods like whole milk and coconut oils are actually better than what we have been sold as "healthy" by the marketing people. I like my butter and ghee, I cook with only olive or coocnut oils...I just dont think that the quantities of fats that book recommends is goign to be healthy for a lot of people. Just because we do need fat, doesnt mean we need a lot of it.

 

I bought Sally Fallon's book Eat Fat Lose Fat - it's a diet book- and it involves eating several tablespoons of coocnut oil a day- to lose weight. FOr me, I gained weight on that diet, which realyl made me lose respect for Sally Fallon. It went against common sense that eating that much oil could be good, but I was willing to try.

 

I feel their science is ...well, they have an agenda, and therefore they produce science that matches their agenda.

 

However, I think the book has much value for its return to "real foods", which are more satisfying and much healthier than processed foods, and in particular for its teaching of how to create fermented foods. I use it for that mainly nowadays.

 

I also do not like a high meat diet- it does not rest well with me physically or ethically. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that a high meat and dairy diet is the cause of much of the western world's heath issues- obesity, heart disease, and diabetes (as well as processed foods and sugars). I have been studying diet for years and at this point, my understanding is that the best possible diet is mostly plant foods in their pretty basic form (not white flour or sugar)....and the cultures that eat a mostly plant food diet do not have obesity issues.

 

The book has a lot of merit..but I think it takes things too far- andit certainly didnt work as a weight reduction tool for me. What worked for me to lose weight in these last months is eating significantly less, but eating healthy, and mostly plants.

[Faith]

You said this so well and I agree with all you have written. I have found this all to be very true for myself as well.

 

 

I too am a bit dubious about the whole NT thing nowadays. I find that much fat at all in my diet makes me put on weight. I do naturally do better on a lower fat diet- however I have no problem agreeing that saturated fat foods like whole milk and coconut oils are actually better than what we have been sold as "healthy" by the marketing people. I like my butter and ghee, I cook with only olive or coocnut oils...I just dont think that the quantities of fats that book recommends is goign to be healthy for a lot of people. Just because we do need fat, doesnt mean we need a lot of it.

 

I bought Sally Fallon's book Eat Fat Lose Fat - it's a diet book- and it involves eating several tablespoons of coocnut oil a day- to lose weight. FOr me, I gained weight on that diet, which realyl made me lose respect for Sally Fallon. It went against common sense that eating that much oil could be good, but I was willing to try.

 

I feel their science is ...well, they have an agenda, and therefore they produce science that matches their agenda.

 

However, I think the book has much value for its return to "real foods", which are more satisfying and much healthier than processed foods, and in particular for its teaching of how to create fermented foods. I use it for that mainly nowadays.

 

I also do not like a high meat diet- it does not rest well with me physically or ethically. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that a high meat and dairy diet is the cause of much of the western world's heath issues- obesity, heart disease, and diabetes (as well as processed foods and sugars). I have been studying diet for years and at this point, my understanding is that the best possible diet is mostly plant foods in their pretty basic form (not white flour or sugar)....and the cultures that eat a mostly plant food diet do not have obesity issues.

 

The book has a lot of merit..but I think it takes things too far- andit certainly didnt work as a weight reduction tool for me. What worked for me to lose weight in these last months is eating significantly less, but eating healthy, and mostly plants.

[Soror]

I think if you combine the high fat w/ the high carb-(lots of grains whether soaked or not) you will gain weight. On the TF forums I have been on this has been fairly universal. But for those that ate higher fat w/ lower carb most lose weight easily. I don't particularly care for SF for other reasons though, although I do agree with some things though. I personally feel horrid trying to eat veg, no matter the purity of ingredients. I don't think there is a perfect diet for anyone. We all have different ancestry, deficiencies, predispositions, genetics etc. Most important I think to source the best quality ingredients you can find and eat them as close to their natural state as possible.

[DawnM]

Thanks. That makes sense and I am very much of the same mind as you....I don't eat much meat, used to be a Vegetarian, but now add some meat.

 

I could never follow Atkins. It makes me feel awful to eat that much meat or protein.

 

Dawn

 

I too am a bit dubious about the whole NT thing nowadays. I find that much fat at all in my diet makes me put on weight. I do naturally do better on a lower fat diet- however I have no problem agreeing that saturated fat foods like whole milk and coconut oils are actually better than what we have been sold as "healthy" by the marketing people. I like my butter and ghee, I cook with only olive or coocnut oils...I just dont think that the quantities of fats that book recommends is goign to be healthy for a lot of people. Just because we do need fat, doesnt mean we need a lot of it.

 

I bought Sally Fallon's book Eat Fat Lose Fat - it's a diet book- and it involves eating several tablespoons of coocnut oil a day- to lose weight. FOr me, I gained weight on that diet, which realyl made me lose respect for Sally Fallon. It went against common sense that eating that much oil could be good, but I was willing to try.

 

I feel their science is ...well, they have an agenda, and therefore they produce science that matches their agenda.

 

However, I think the book has much value for its return to "real foods", which are more satisfying and much healthier than processed foods, and in particular for its teaching of how to create fermented foods. I use it for that mainly nowadays.

 

I also do not like a high meat diet- it does not rest well with me physically or ethically. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that a high meat and dairy diet is the cause of much of the western world's heath issues- obesity, heart disease, and diabetes (as well as processed foods and sugars). I have been studying diet for years and at this point, my understanding is that the best possible diet is mostly plant foods in their pretty basic form (not white flour or sugar)....and the cultures that eat a mostly plant food diet do not have obesity issues.

 

The book has a lot of merit..but I think it takes things too far- andit certainly didnt work as a weight reduction tool for me. What worked for me to lose weight in these last months is eating significantly less, but eating healthy, and mostly plants.

[missiemick]

I just got the book from the library. I've only read the first few sections but totally see the benefits of the education alone. Maybe you could try the library before you made the plunge?

[happypamama]

NT has some good points, I think, the most important of which is the emphasis on eating real foods. Eat a lot of grains or don't, eat a lot of meat or don't, eat a lot of added fats or don't -- whatever works for you, your body, and your lifestyle. But eat real food -- get the best quality food you can afford, don't buy artificially low-fat foods, eat foods as close to their natural state as possible, etc. That's the message I took from NT.

 

It can look like an all or nothing sort of thing, and NT can be a bit off-putting. While I think their basic directions are pretty good, some of their recipes are a bit strange, and I have heard that there are better traditional foods cookbooks out there. As a history enthusiast, I did find the information about how traditional societies lived and ate and preserved their foods to be pretty interesting.

 

I would vote for getting NT from your library, but you could also google for traditional foods suggestions. You can start with small steps -- soaking oatmeal is a pretty good one, as it just involves setting up the oats, some water, and something acidic (like yogurt) the night before, which doesn't take long.

 

I have always cooked a lot from scratch, but yes, moving to a more traditional diet did up our grocery bill. We didn't drink much milk before switching to raw (because we didn't like it); now we go through a couple of gallons a week (and it does taste delicious too). Grass-fed meat is more expensive than conventional, though worth it for our health (and we didn't really notice that we ate less once we switched to the better stuff, so ymmv). On the other hand, oatmeal and eggs, which is what we eat for breakfast most days, is cheaper than cold cereal (and more filling).

[happypamama]

I think if you combine the high fat w/ the high carb-(lots of grains whether soaked or not) you will gain weight. On the TF forums I have been on this has been fairly universal. But for those that ate higher fat w/ lower carb most lose weight easily.

 

That's what I have noticed about most TF eaters as well -- they tend to eat lower carb, even soaked/sprouted carbs. They definitely seem to focus their calories on good fats and proteins, and carbs are very low-priority. I think it makes sense too -- if your body needs to burn something for energy, it will burn the easier-to-burn carbs first, leaving the fat to turn to weight gain. But if you eat lower-carb, your body will start burning the fat first, ending with weight loss (or minimal gain). I'm not a scientist, but that makes logical sense to me.

[DawnM]

My library doesn't have it. I haven't asked about inter-library loans, but I did receive something re: taking the inter-library loan budget down considerably....I have no idea what that means.

 

Thanks for the info about the soaking....I need to look some of that up.

 

Dawn

 

NT has some good points, I think, the most important of which is the emphasis on eating real foods. Eat a lot of grains or don't, eat a lot of meat or don't, eat a lot of added fats or don't -- whatever works for you, your body, and your lifestyle. But eat real food -- get the best quality food you can afford, don't buy artificially low-fat foods, eat foods as close to their natural state as possible, etc. That's the message I took from NT.

 

It can look like an all or nothing sort of thing, and NT can be a bit off-putting. While I think their basic directions are pretty good, some of their recipes are a bit strange, and I have heard that there are better traditional foods cookbooks out there. As a history enthusiast, I did find the information about how traditional societies lived and ate and preserved their foods to be pretty interesting.

 

I would vote for getting NT from your library, but you could also google for traditional foods suggestions. You can start with small steps -- soaking oatmeal is a pretty good one, as it just involves setting up the oats, some water, and something acidic (like yogurt) the night before, which doesn't take long.

 

I have always cooked a lot from scratch, but yes, moving to a more traditional diet did up our grocery bill. We didn't drink much milk before switching to raw (because we didn't like it); now we go through a couple of gallons a week (and it does taste delicious too). Grass-fed meat is more expensive than conventional, though worth it for our health (and we didn't really notice that we ate less once we switched to the better stuff, so ymmv). On the other hand, oatmeal and eggs, which is what we eat for breakfast most days, is cheaper than cold cereal (and more filling).

[DawnM]

Well shoot, now I want the recipe!

 

Dawn

 

:bigear:

 

I just purchased this book yesterday, and barely started reading it. I assumed it would just be a cookbook, wrong!

 

I bought it really only for an oatcake recipe, we have a friend who makes them for us when she visits, and I swear I could live on them solely. They are soaked in yogurt over night. -she recommended the book to me.

 

It's a very intriguing book, I am looking forward to learning to cook more healthy. I figure baby steps, and that you don't always have to go "all the way" little changes in the healthy direction are good.

[happypamama]

My library doesn't have it. I haven't asked about inter-library loans, but I did receive something re: taking the inter-library loan budget down considerably....I have no idea what that means.

 

Thanks for the info about the soaking....I need to look some of that up.

 

Dawn

 

Oh, that's a bummer. I have heard that a lot of library systems have cut down or stopped their inter-library loans, so that may be the case with yours. I'd still ask, though.

 

For soaking oatmeal, I use about 4 cups of water, 2 tablespoons or so of yogurt, and 2 cups of oatmeal. Stir it all together, and let it sit overnight. (I cover with a towel or plate as well.) In the morning, stir, transfer to a cooking pot, cover, bring to a boil, and simmer until cooked. They may cook faster than you're used to.

[Parrothead]

My library doesn't have it. I haven't asked about inter-library loans, but I did receive something re: taking the inter-library loan budget down considerably....I have no idea what that means.

 

Thanks for the info about the soaking....I need to look some of that up.

 

Dawn

Maybe looking for a donation.

[i.love.lucy]

For soaking oatmeal, I use about 4 cups of water, 2 tablespoons or so of yogurt, and 2 cups of oatmeal. Stir it all together, and let it sit overnight. (I cover with a towel or plate as well.) In the morning, stir, transfer to a cooking pot, cover, bring to a boil, and simmer until cooked. They may cook faster than you're used to.

Do you let it sit out overnight on the counter, or in the fridge? Do you/can you use greek yogurt? It's all I have. Also, rolled oats or steel cut? I have both.

 

What health benefits would this recipe have over the regular steel cut oats I do in the crock pot overnight with a little yogurt stirred in after it's cooked? I guess I should google it? Just thought it might be easier to ask here. You know...talk slowly and clearly...:tongue_smilie:

 

Sorry to take your NT thread off track. You all lost me on the NT thing with tongue and liver. :eek::ack2: But I can soak some grains with no problem if it's good for me!

[happypamama]

Do you let it sit out overnight on the counter, or in the fridge? Do you/can you use greek yogurt? It's all I have. Also, rolled oats or steel cut? I have both.

 

What health benefits would this recipe have over the regular steel cut oats I do in the crock pot overnight with a little yogurt stirred in after it's cooked? I guess I should google it? Just thought it might be easier to ask here. You know...talk slowly and clearly...:tongue_smilie:

 

Sorry to take your NT thread off track. You all lost me on the NT thing with tongue and liver. :eek::ack2: But I can soak some grains with no problem if it's good for me!

 

Soaking them in something acidic overnight is supposed to help break down the phytates to make them easier to digest. That takes several hours, which is why I do it before they're cooked. I've done it with both rolled and steel cut oats; those measurements were for rolled, and I think the proportions for steel cut are similar, but it's been a while. I just set them on the counter. Not sure about Greek style yogurt, but I am guessing you could use it.

 

(I'm hardly an expert though, so maybe someone else will chime in!)

[Peela]

Do you let it sit out overnight on the counter, or in the fridge? Do you/can you use greek yogurt? It's all I have. Also, rolled oats or steel cut? I have both.

 

What health benefits would this recipe have over the regular steel cut oats I do in the crock pot overnight with a little yogurt stirred in after it's cooked? I guess I should google it? Just thought it might be easier to ask here. You know...talk slowly and clearly...:tongue_smilie:

 

Sorry to take your NT thread off track. You all lost me on the NT thing with tongue and liver. :eek::ack2: But I can soak some grains with no problem if it's good for me!

 

Soaking any grains for several hours at room tempaerature...either with a plate on top so that some air can get in (with the accompanying bacteria) or with yoghurt to add teh bacteria...or without either and just soaking....helps break down the phytates which grains develop to stop them sprouting unless they are in ideal conditions. The phytates make them more difficult to digest and soaking them makes them easier to digest because they are beginning the sprouting process- which turns them from a grain to virtually a vegetable, in a way. I do it with all grains and nuts, when I am not being too lazy.

Room temperature, overnight, any plain live yoghurt but its not necessary either.

It woudlnt be the same as the crock pot if you are heating it because the heat will stop the sprouting process from beginning. If it is just sitting in the crockpot overnight with a timer to cook it in the morning- it will have the same effect- the phytates will start to break down.

 

One of the theories of why so many westerners are sensitive to grains nowadays, is because we no longer soak them.

I have a bread recipe where I leave the dough overnight to break down the phytates. APparently thats how it was done traditionally- bread was left out for 8 hours or so- until the 1950s when production became more intense and more yeast was used and also "enhancers" so that the dough woudl raise in a much shorter period of time. But the effect of this was to stop the chemical breakdown of the bread...which may have contributed to the modern widespread intolerance to bread.

[phathui5]

What an interesting thread!

 

Now I have the book on my library hold list.

[WistfulRidge]

I started losing weight once I started eating this way, but I think I might be in a minority. My metabolism has always been very, very slow so I always assumed I needed low fat, low carb things (which, I guess if I was eating a diet of processed foods might make sense for me). So I did that for most of my teen years and I was exceptionally unhealthy. Despite eating what I termed as healthy and walking about 5 miles a day I gained weight. I was lethargic all the time. I felt weak and sore (like when you're getting over a bad cold or the flu) all the time. I was mentally always in a fog and I couldn't sleep well at night.

 

When I became pregnant with DS my eating habits changed (thank you morning sickness!). I discovered that in order to keep from being sick all day long I had to eat a very high (natural) fat (ie, bacon, butter, cheese, full fat sour cream, cottage cheese, milk), high protein diet that was heavy on vegetables and fruit and low on carbs unless they were a good quality whole grain (preferably something I can soak before I turn it into the final product and eat it). Not only did it halt the morning sickness but I felt the best I had in my entire life and I didn't want that feeling to go away, so I kept at it. My weight stabilized and started going down.

 

Even now (16 weeks pregnant and still nursing DS) I eat almost 3000 calories a day. Probably closer to 4000 calories on the days when I have the "OMG, I'm starving to death" pregnancy moments. Before I started eating this way if I ate more than 1000 calories/day I started gaining weight no matter what. Now...I am still losing weight. Even in the midst of large calorie intake and pregnancy gain I'm still losing enough weight that I only weigh not quite a pound over what I weighed when I became pregnant. My body is finding its "balance" so to speak.

 

Now, am I strict "Nourishing Traditions" follower. Not necessarily, but I took from it what worked for my body, and that's the important part.