Who didn't see this coming? The next step in tightened security.......

[GVD22]

public transit, trains and boats :glare: For those who think "don't like it, don't fly" does this not bother you either?

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/130549-next-step-for-body-scanners-could-be-trains-boats-and-the-metro-

 

The next step in tightened security could be on U.S. public transportation, trains and boats.

 

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says terrorists will continue to look for U.S. vulnerabilities, making tighter security standards necessary.

 

“[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,†Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on "Charlie Rose."

 

“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?â€

 

Napolitano’s comments, made a day before one of the nation’s busiest travel days, come in the wake of a public outcry over newly implemented airport screening measures that have been criticized for being too invasive.

The secretary has defended the new screening methods, which include advanced imaging systems and pat-downs, as necessary to stopping terrorists. During the interview with Rose, Napolitano said her agency is now looking into ways to make other popular means of travel safer for passengers and commuters.

 

Napolitano isn’t the only one who’s suggested that advanced scanning machines could be used in places beyond airports.

 

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, introduced legislation this past September that would authorize testing of body scanners at some federal buildings.

 

Napolitano’s comments were in response to the question: “What will they [terrorists] be thinking in the future?†She gave no details about how soon the public could see changes in security or about what additional safety measures the DHS was entertaining.

 

The recently implemented airport screening methods have made John Pistole, who heads the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the focus of growing public ire.

 

On Monday, Pistole said he understood peoples’ privacy concerns and that the TSA would consider modifying its screening policies to make them “as minimally invasive as possible,†but he indicated the advanced-imaging body scans and pat-down methods would remain in place in the short term, including during the high-volume Thanksgiving period of travel.

 

Lawmakers from both parties have received hundreds of complaints about the new methods — some have likened the pat-downs to groping — and have called on Pistole to address the privacy concerns of their constituents, who were not informed about changes ahead of time.

 

Many lawmakers say the public should have been informed before the pat-downs and body-imaging techniques were put into practice. As a result, any move to implement new security screening measures for rail or water passengers is likely to be met with tough levels of scrutiny from lawmakers.

 

Pistole, who spent 26 years with the FBI, told reporters Monday that he rejected the advice of media aides who advised him to publicize the revised security measures before they took effect. Terrorist groups have been known to study the TSA’s screening methods in an attempt to circumvent them, he said.

 

Napolitano said she hoped the U.S. could get to a place in the future where Americans would not have to be as guarded against terrorist attacks as they are and that she was actively promoting research into the psychology of how a terrorist becomes radicalized.

 

“The long-term [question] is, how do we get out of this having to have an ever-increasing security apparatus because of terrorists and a terrorist attack?†she said. “I think having a better understanding of what causes someone to become a terrorist will be helpful."

 

DHS and intelligence officials are not as far along in understanding that process as they would like, Napolitano said, adding that until that goal is reached, steps need to be put in place to ensure the public’s safety.

 

“We don’t know much,†she said. “If you were to try and devise a template about what connects this terrorist to this terrorist and how they were raised and what schools they went to and their socioeconomic status, or this or that, it’s all over the map.

 

“I think there’s some important work that’s being done on that but … the Secretary of Homeland Security cannot wait for that.â€

[Harriet Vane]

Yes, I have guessed it's coming, and I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.

 

The whole thing is an unconstitutional, illegal farce. It is wrong for travel to be connected to pornographic images of myself and also exposing myself to a known carcinogen for no medical purpose, or being groped by a stranger when I have not committed any crime.

[Parrothead]

Those people (Napolitano and co.) haven't got a clue.

 

It is all reactive instead of proactive.

[Mejane]

Random bag searches on mass transit in large metro areas have been the norm for years. Bodily searches were just a matter of time.

[mama2cntrykids]

The whole thing is disturbing and a violation of our rights. What's next? Honestly, I don't want to know...

[Barry Goldwater]

The whole thing is disturbing and a violation of our rights. What's next? Honestly, I don't want to know...

 

History tells us exactly what is next.

[CoastalGal]

History tells us exactly what is next.

 

:iagree:

[Murphy101]

Yes, I have guessed it's coming, and I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.

 

The whole thing is an unconstitutional, illegal farce. It is wrong for travel to be connected to pornographic images of myself and also exposing myself to a known carcinogen for no medical purpose, or being groped by a stranger when I have not committed any crime.

 

:iagree: In fact, I brought up exactly this legal issue in another thread a couple days ago didn't I?

[Dawn in OH]

The whole thing is disturbing and a violation of our rights. What's next? Honestly, I don't want to know...

 

 

Strip and body cavity searches.

[RanchGirl]

no resources for tighter border control, but billions for invading the privacy of law-abiding citizens traveling within the country... where's the logic?

[HappyGrace]

History tells us exactly what is next.

 

:iagree:

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Yes, Barry, you are correct. Like many others, I never thought it could happen here, but I'd be a fool not to understand the times.

 

What can we do? What can we do, when so many Americans are ready and willing to submit to anything?

[smrtmama]

The biggest terrorist threat to the US is not foreign terrorism, but the domestic "sovereign citizen" movement. Are they going to start randomly stopping cars and searching homes to find those guys, since they look like "us?" Will they institute backscatter machines and patdowns to go to Wal-Mart and the Piggly Wiggly?

 

Security theatre and profiting off citizens' fear, that's all this is.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

IMHO I do not see these security measures as sinister at all. I see them simply as measures that have been in the works for about 5 years or more in order to prevent terrorism. I think it is over the top to accuse our government of sinister intentions IMHO. Honestly, I think our government is doing the best that it can against terrorism. What will the outcry be if there are no measures and another attack happens? Also, I think if the 19 9/11 terrorists had gone through today's security measures, then they would not have been successful in my opinion.

[smrtmama]

Like, vigilante-type groups, you mean?

 

Like, the psychology of lynch mobs that want to imprison instead of lynch?

These guys. We have a family friend who is an FBI agent and he says these types of groups are the biggest national security threat out there. SO dangerous for law enforcement officers. :(

[smrtmama]

IMHO I do not see these security measures as sinister at all. I see them simply as measures that have been in the works for about 5 years or more in order to prevent terrorism. I think it is over the top to accuse our government of sinister intentions IMHO. Honestly, I think our government is doing the best that it can against terrorism. What will the outcry be if there are no measures and another attack happens? Also, I think if the 19 9/11 terrorists had gone through today's security measures, then they would not have been successful in my opinion.

 

That's a nice fantasy. Of course, the Mythbusters guy got two 12inch blades onto a plane (accidentally) even after going through the backscatter machine.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

That's a nice fantasy. Of course, the Mythbusters guy got two 12inch blades onto a plane (accidentally) even after going through the backscatter machine.

 

I imagine it is not foolproof but I still think they might have been able to stop at least some of them. What is the alternative? I don't don't think profiling will work since I think terrorists come from all walks of life:(.

[smrtmama]

I imagine it is not foolproof but I still think they might have been able to stop at least some of them. What is the alternative? I don't don't think profiling will work since I think terrorists come from all walks of life:(.

 

The alternative is to follow the model used in Israeli airports, where security screeners are taught to read body language to assess a passenger's risk -- this is done through asking several key questions while making eye contact. It has been highly successful and doesn't involve any physical contact OR the stripper-scope scanner. This is a skill that police officers and many military personnel are already taught, so it would be a perfect line of work for officers/military who are looking for a career change that will allow them to use their skills. It could still be government-run/overseen, but instead of hiring many unskilled screeners and buying expensive machinery, they could hire skilled screeners, use less expensive technology, and have a much safer airport.

 

I'd like to also point out that I am not and have never been a conspiracy theorist and that I VOTED for the party in power that has implemented these stupid policies. I still believe they were put into place to give the appearance of security, but do nothing at all to actually improve security, and that they do this at the expense of our civil rights (namely the 4th amendment) and potentially our health.

 

Heck, bomb/chemical sniffing dogs could screen us more cheaply, more safely, and with more dignity than the TSA.

[pdalley]

The alternative is to follow the model used in Israeli airports, where security screeners are taught to read body language to assess a passenger's risk -- this is done through asking several key questions while making eye contact. It has been highly successful and doesn't involve any physical contact OR the stripper-scope scanner. This is a skill that police officers and many military personnel are already taught, so it would be a perfect line of work for officers/military who are looking for a career change that will allow them to use their skills. It could still be government-run/overseen, but instead of hiring many unskilled screeners and buying expensive machinery, they could hire skilled screeners, use less expensive technology, and have a much safer airport.

 

I'd like to also point out that I am not and have never been a conspiracy theorist and that I VOTED for the party in power that has implemented these stupid policies. I still believe they were put into place to give the appearance of security, but do nothing at all to actually improve security, and that they do this at the expense of our civil rights (namely the 4th amendment) and potentially our health.

 

Heck, bomb/chemical sniffing dogs could screen us more cheaply, more safely, and with more dignity than the TSA.

:iagree:

 

Actually both parties are responsible for the current security measures. They started after 9/11. They've gotten progressively more invasive and more for show than substence.

 

Profiling is the most effective and least invasive - IMO and IME. (My Criminal Justice degree is showing.)

[Donna A.]

The alternative is to follow the model used in Israeli airports, where security screeners are taught to read body language to assess a passenger's risk -- this is done through asking several key questions while making eye contact. It has been highly successful and doesn't involve any physical contact OR the stripper-scope scanner. This is a skill that police officers and many military personnel are already taught, so it would be a perfect line of work for officers/military who are looking for a career change that will allow them to use their skills. It could still be government-run/overseen, but instead of hiring many unskilled screeners and buying expensive machinery, they could hire skilled screeners, use less expensive technology, and have a much safer airport.

 

:iagree: And IMO, these are the people who SHOULD be doing this job.... not the $12 an hour/no benefits/part-time workers off the street. My dh had an opportunity to take one of these jobs a couple months ago. No, thanks. :glare: And yet, if the ARMY would've hired him to do the same job, he would've been paid much better AND had better training.

 

However, by creating some 65,000 (mostly) part-time civilian jobs, it makes the government unemployment numbers look better. :tongue_smilie:

 

And then there's this. Not to mention the fact that bomb-sniffing dogs don't need $12 an hour. :lol:

 

Heck, bomb/chemical sniffing dogs could screen us more cheaply, more safely, and with more dignity than the TSA.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I imagine it is not foolproof but I still think they might have been able to stop at least some of them. What is the alternative? I don't don't think profiling will work since I think terrorists come from all walks of life:(.

 

While it's true that you can't say that a terrorist looks like one thing or dresses one way, I think that have chosen to ignore some commonalities in what country their passport is from, where they have traveled, how they are traveling (ie, one way, little baggage). In the case of the underwear bomber from last Christmas, we even seem to have ignored warnings from the bomber's own family.

 

There is a difference between acknowledging that profiling isn't perfect and deciding that you will ignore a whole list of indicators because they are related to nationality, religion or ethnicity. I am pretty confident that when law enforcement is looking for people likely to do violence against abortionists that they are willing and able to look at traits that are often commonalities among those who have shot at clinics and/or providers. I'm pretty sure that when they are looking for the person who shot at USMC recruiting offices and other facilities, they looked for someone who had a reason for targeting those locations.

 

I'm not calling for a purge of muslims or for everyone from the mid east to be strip searched when they travel. I am suggesting that we are using extreme methods in a very blunt way while choosing to ignore another tool that I think would be of some benefit.

[Mejane]

A commentator on the nightly news said we need to stop looking for the bombs and start looking for the bombers. I agree.

[LibraryLover]

The first time I was 'frisked' was in 1986, in Paris. My dh, who 'looks Muslim', was stopped several times in France as he rode the Metro in the same time period. So whatever you all are having done (ok, not counting cavity searches) as travellers now in the US...is not new.

 

If you doubt me, Google what was going on in Western Europe re 'Arab' terrorists around 1984-1986.

Edited November 26, 2010 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

A commentator on the nightly news said we need to stop looking for the bombs and start looking for the bombers. I agree.

 

 

What do they look like? I am not trying to be obnoxious when I ask...what do bombers look like?

[LibraryLover]

Does anyone remember the cruise ship Achille Lauro?

[LibraryLover]

LL:

 

Yes, Mr Klinghofer was assassinated.

 

And then when the hijackers were captured, the Italian government let them go free.

 

 

Only the leader of the hijacking was freed.

[Mejane]

What do they look like? I am not trying to be obnoxious when I ask...what do bombers look like?

 

I believe they are speaking of behavioral profiling.

[Spy Car]

The alternative is to follow the model used in Israeli airports, where security screeners are taught to read body language to assess a passenger's risk -- this is done through asking several key questions while making eye contact. It has been highly successful and doesn't involve any physical contact OR the stripper-scope scanner. This is a skill that police officers and many military personnel are already taught, so it would be a perfect line of work for officers/military who are looking for a career change that will allow them to use their skills. It could still be government-run/overseen, but instead of hiring many unskilled screeners and buying expensive machinery, they could hire skilled screeners, use less expensive technology, and have a much safer airport.

 

I'd like to also point out that I am not and have never been a conspiracy theorist and that I VOTED for the party in power that has implemented these stupid policies. I still believe they were put into place to give the appearance of security, but do nothing at all to actually improve security, and that they do this at the expense of our civil rights (namely the 4th amendment) and potentially our health.

 

Heck, bomb/chemical sniffing dogs could screen us more cheaply, more safely, and with more dignity than the TSA.

 

The Israelis also routinely strip search women of Palestinian ethnicity that they have no reason to suspect of anything. Women traveling with young children, doesn't matter. It is not all highly trained security screening, there is a lot of plain old humiliation at play at Ben Gurion airport too.

 

 

I agree that the TSA measures are theater and raise serious civil right concerns.

 

Bill

[secular_mom]

These guys. We have a family friend who is an FBI agent and he says these types of groups are the biggest national security threat out there. SO dangerous for law enforcement officers. :(

That is terrifying.