Should a homeschool group spend thousands on a website?

[cathmom]

I've belonged to a homeschool group for many years, with a several year hiatus when my twins were born. The last several years my children have done nothing with the group because we have no time, money, or energy, but I still sometimes attend meetings. I still belong to get info on what's out there and I keep hoping that one day we will be able to participate again.

 

This week I went to the annual member meeting. In a group of probably about 200 families, about 20 people were there, several of them married couples. One of the items on the agenda was to discuss going forward with a website. We do currently have an old, out of date website. There is a "contact us" button, and the lady who answers those was at the meeting. She said the main questions she gets are, "Do you still exist?" and "What do I get for my $20 membership fee?" :tongue_smilie:

 

So I said, "So we're spending thousands on a website for people who aren't even members?" and then I was told, "No, it's to make it easier to volunteer for the group, things will be more streamlined, etc."

 

Communication is done via an email loop currently, which is free. A Facebook page could be made with up-to-date info, which would be free. Way back when I first joined in 1997, we paid the same membership fee, and that covered a monthly newsletter, which was compiled, printed and mailed to all members. THAT system, ancient as it may be, was CHEAP compared to the idea of spending thousands on a website! Plus it had the advantage of being cozy, in that my dc could get the newsletter, hold it, and read it and feel like a part of the group.

 

One person said, "I know that I'm going to be much more inclined to join/rejoin if I can do the membership form online vs. printing it and writing a check." Maybe it's just me, but it's not that hard to print a form. And apparently the group is not hurting for members - somehow people have managed to join without online forms.

 

The group has a little over $10K in assets. It is a non-profit, if that factors into your opinion.

 

I like the Internet as much as anybody - I'm here, aren't I? :001_smile: - but this doesn't seem like a good use of funds to me. The person who is apparently driving this admitted in something she said that, because the Internet changes so fast, any website done now will probably be out of date in several years, which would probably then require more money to "keep up with the Joneses."

 

Am I just being a horrible Luddite here, all nostalgic about how things used to be, or do you think that this may not be the best use of funds?

[dangermom]

That seems like a lot to spend, when there are so many cheap ways to get an online presence. Doesn't anyone have a teenager learning to do web design?

[SailorMom]

Wow - that is a lot.

Our Boy Scout troop has a great website for free through:

 

www.weebly.com

 

Plenty there - I can't imagine paying for a website.....

[bookfiend]

Perhaps is the person advocating for the website the strongest the one who currently has to process all of the paperwork?

[lailasmum]

That sounds way to much to spend on a website. I just did one for our group and we just pay for the hosting. Websites are so easy to do on the cheap and many teenagers are as good as paid professionals at writing them, there must be one in your community or a parent who could do it. Alternatively the online site builders are getting better and usually really cheap or free.

[Rhonda in TX]

I think a web-site can be very beneficial, but I don't think you need to spend thousands on it. It doesn't have to be fancy. It just needs to cover the information people are looking for.

 

I will say that if I'm looking for a homeschool group, I'm going to do a google search first. If I find a group that has a web-site with all my questions answered, I will probably go with them. Or at least, visit them first. If I'm happy with what I see then, I probably wouldn't look any further.

[Dandelion]

I think that's excessive.

 

We host our HS support group (currently 180 member families) on http://www.meetup.com, which has been a fantastic platform for meeting/event management, message board discussions and updates. It's only $144 per year, and it does provide the functionality for accepting and tracking member payments online (members can pay using PayPal, Amazon Payments, or manually via check/cash which can then be entered for online tracking). We don't charge a membership fee but have used the payments function when members need to prepay for field trips, etc. It will even generate financial reports for you. This would probably meet all of your group's needs, and then some.

 

My business website is only $88 year - even though I could have built a website for free, I wanted certain functionality and web hosting support. For me, it's well worth it.

 

There are so many free or low-cost solutions that this does not seem like a wise use of your group's money.

[CoastalGal]

I think that's a little "steep"...websites can be done for MUCH less $$.

 

Call me cynical: Is there any chance that someone related to the group stands to benefit from this website design job?? (spouse, friend of a friend, etc.)

[Ellie]

Define "thousands." :)

 

You don't need to spend "thousands" of dollars on a Web site, not even if someone other than a teenager does it.

 

I'm on the board of directors for what I think of as a "real" non-profit, i.e., it is incorporated, and there are a paid artistic director, paid staff, and a 6-digit budget. We don't spend thousands of dollars on a Web site. We squeeze every drop of blood out of every penny, and that much for a Web site is just not going to happen.

 

I don't think it's a good use of your resources, especially when so many other resources are darn near free.

 

BTW...what *do* your members get for their $20? Back in the day, our support group received a pretty nice newsletter (if I do say so myself, lol) for that $20 a year (it also paid for mail box rental and whatnot).

[kitten18]

I agree, it sounds like way too much. We use GoDaddy for DH's business website. I pieced together a pretty nice website with that (and I know NOTHING about web design) then my niece redid it and made it really nice :tongue_smilie:.

 

I do have question about your bank account though. Does your group always have such a large balance? I was president of a MOMS Club (non profit) for 2 years, we always had to get our balance down to about $500 by the end of our business year. I'm not exactly sure about the reason for this, I think it was to stay off the radar of the IRS. We would always donate a bunch of money so we could bring our balance down where it needed to be.

[JoyfulMama]

One of my local groups uses Yahoo groups. Free.

The large group uses homeschool-life.com, and is very helpful for a large group. The info on their rates is here. It could cost ~$1600/year. However the capability of the site is well worth the cost for this large group.

[LisaKinVA]

I think there are some valid options... maybe you could offer some suggestions (as those have posted here).

 

I can say this, the more a group needs a website to do, the more expensive it can be. And, while free stuff may be "free" -- keeping information all of the different places updated properly, linked, etc. is a royal pain, time consuming, and frustrating -- especially if you're volunteering for the work to help the group run.

 

It all sounds so easy and simple, until you're the one responsible for a cobbled-together muckety-muck (can you tell I've BTDT?) for a large group of people.

 

Facebook is a nice way to share information with people who are on facebook. If they aren't, or don't want to join...it doesn't work.

 

Groups are fine, except many people use the digest feature, which means that timely information isn't always delivered in a timely manner.

 

Forums take getting used to, and while useful for discussions, are not the best way to disseminate information.

 

Websites -- especially today -- do have the ability to be very dynamic and meet the needs of people visiting the site to get information and find everything they need. They can be a big resource, but still have to be maintained. A break in the maintaining/updating can lead to problems and lots of frustration.

 

I once was in a group of people who each wanted to be communicated with in a different manner... some wanted monthly phone calls, some faxes, some e-mails, some e-mail loops, some facebook, some by mail, and some a forum like this. It was a nightmare. I was running a Yahoo group, a website forum, updating 2 calendars, and driving myself nuts. But, that's what the boss of the group wanted. It was awful, but at least I was paid for it. (I had forms coming in e-mail, fax, and snail-mail... still others wanted to process on-line or by phone (then *I* had to fill out stuff). Bad, bad, memories.

[cathmom]

It was not a detailed quote - it was basically saying that we would pay this guy $40-$60 an hour to design the site, and the ballpark figure was around $2000. Although, another woman who does this for a living (but on a different kind of system) was skeptical that it could be done for that little (gasp!) and that there wouldn't be an ongoing fee.

 

There was discussion that there needs to be quotes from more people. The guy she had talked to was recommended by a board member. I do not know how he knows him. The guy was recently laid off and is looking for freelance work.

 

As for the financials of the group, I'm not really sure. I was given a handout that says that the net assets are just over $10K, but then also given another sheet that seems to say that the number I just said is the yearly income, and then it mostly all goes back out again in programs. So I'm confused on that myself. I don't understand if the amount listed as assets is separate savings or what.

 

It seems that there are much more affordable options out there (meetup, FB, etc). I will pass these suggestions on. It may have already been decided to go ahead with this. It seemed to me that some people really wanted a shiny toy with all the bells and whistles, not just "How can we get the update info out there to members and potential members?"

[cathmom]

Facebook pages can be completely public and turn up in a google search, so I don't think you necessarily need to be a member, especially if the point of the page was to reach the non-members, who, after they join, would be added to the yahoo group.

[Amy loves Bud]

Our homeschool group and my modern quilt guild both use Big Tent. It's free or really cheap. You can do everything on it - forums, sign up for and pay for field trips, keep a blog, post classifieds, etc. No webmaster necessary.

 

 

ETA: To answer your title question - if that's what the group wants, it's fine by me. The group should be able to set its own priorities. However, they should be aware that every decision will have consequences. No website=less visibility, therefore fewer members. Pricey website=putting off members who are on tight budgets and would prefer not to spend on something considered extravagant.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Amy loves Bud

[Dandelion]

Facebook pages can be completely public and turn up in a google search, so I don't think you necessarily need to be a member, especially if the point of the page was to reach the non-members, who, after they join, would be added to the yahoo group.

 

Just to add... This is true of Meetup too (many of our members find us through Google searches). Plus, Meetup has a "link in" option for Facebook, so members who like to use Facebook can integrate the two (can log into Meetup using their Facebook account, add our meetups to their Facebook page, etc).

 

Here's the link to our group if you're interested in taking a closer look (so you can see what a non-member is able to see): http://www.meetup.com/Colorado-Homeschoolers/

[CoastalGal]

It was not a detailed quote - it was basically saying that we would pay this guy $40-$60 an hour to design the site, and the ballpark figure was around $2000. Although, another woman who does this for a living (but on a different kind of system) was skeptical that it could be done for that little (gasp!) and that there wouldn't be an ongoing fee.

 

There was discussion that there needs to be quotes from more people. The guy she had talked to was recommended by a board member. I do not know how he knows him. The guy was recently laid off and is looking for freelance work.

 

 

 

I've highlighted a few things:

 

$40 - 60/hr -- that seems reasonable. (at least where we live...my hubby charges $75/hr)

 

ballpark figure: this is where it gets sticky. My hubby sees situations ALL.THE.TIME. where someone was quoted a "ballpark figure" and then they get the actual bill in the mail. (he recently took a call from a potential client - they had recently been billed over $3000 for a $1200 job.) BE CAREFUL -- ask for a quote IN WRITING.

 

laid off/looking for freelance work: sounds "shaky". I would ask for references and/or a portfolio of other work he has done before I'd hire him to do anything.

[cathmom]

Just to add... This is true of Meetup too (many of our members find us through Google searches). Plus, Meetup has a "link in" option for Facebook, so members who like to use Facebook can integrate the two (can log into Meetup using their Facebook account, add our meetups to their Facebook page, etc).

 

Here's the link to our group if you're interested in taking a closer look (so you can see what a non-member is able to see): http://www.meetup.com/Colorado-Homeschoolers/

 

I wanna join your group! It looks great! Unfortunately I don't live anywhere near there. :tongue_smilie:

[cathmom]

She did have examples of websites he had done that I think she was going to email to the whole group.

[CoastalGal]

Well they should if they want to, but I wouldn't want to. I think there are better ways to spend money. Also, there are plenty of free or low cost options.

 

:iagree: -- If they went ahead with it, I'd probably "bail". ;)

[cathmom]

:iagree: -- If they went ahead with it, I'd probably "bail". ;)

 

That's pretty much how I feel...not that they'd really notice LOL.

 

I just was wondering if I was out of touch or something...this seems so excessive to me! I do know that at least one other person at the meeting felt the same way.

[Dandelion]

I wanna join your group! It looks great! Unfortunately I don't live anywhere near there. :tongue_smilie:

 

Well, if you're ever in the Colorado Springs area, you're welcome to come hang with us... :)

[LizzyBee]

Our group also has about 200+ families. We have a website, and I cannot even tell you how much easier the website makes it for the membership director. The website has capabilities that yahoo groups, groupsite, etc simply don't have. However, we spend next to nothing on our website because our webmaster is a member of the group who doesn't charge us for her time. Is there anyone in your homeschool group who can and is willing to set up the website as a volunteer?

Edited November 19, 2010 by LizzyBee

[Gooblink]

I'd be wary. Who's doing the website? Has it been bid out to several vendors, or is it someone related to the group(call me cynical)?

 

We used to do websites. The only time they ran into the "thousands" was for complex e-commerce with a great deal of customization. And, really, for most of the stuff we used to have to charge to write from scratch, there are now open source options which reduce the cost a great deal.

 

As far as a site being "outdated," I wouldn't worry so much about that - as long as it's not built using some proprietary tool that might be hard to upgrade/update later.

 

Hey, if they're bent on spending that kind of money, though, I can think of a few developers who'd like to submit a proposal. :)

[JenneinCA]

Creating and maintaining a web site is a TON of work.

 

A simple looking website can take many hours of work for someone who knows what they are doing. It is not just throw some stuff at the computer and it works. And making the web site maintainable for the next web master is not an easy task either.

 

While I know you aren't happy with the idea of spending the money on something you don't see value in, I suggest looking at the person who is spending their time working with the current set up. It may not be anywhere near as smooth and easy as you think.

 

(My husband designed web sites before this job. He didn't freelance often but the price of $2000 for a 'simple' web site is not unreasonable. He quoted that much when he was asked to do them for other people. And a maintenance fee of $150 a month to keep the site running and up to date. It is way more effort and time to keep the web site running than you think.)

[cathmom]

Creating and maintaining a web site is a TON of work.

 

A simple looking website can take many hours of work for someone who knows what they are doing. It is not just throw some stuff at the computer and it works. And making the web site maintainable for the next web master is not an easy task either.

 

While I know you aren't happy with the idea of spending the money on something you don't see value in, I suggest looking at the person who is spending their time working with the current set up. It may not be anywhere near as smooth and easy as you think.

 

(My husband designed web sites before this job. He didn't freelance often but the price of $2000 for a 'simple' web site is not unreasonable. He quoted that much when he was asked to do them for other people. And a maintenance fee of $150 a month to keep the site running and up to date. It is way more effort and time to keep the web site running than you think.)

 

I don't think that it's easy - in fact, I know it's not. And apparently the volunteers of the group see this as a way of making things easier. I don't think it's the only option, but, as you said, I am not the one doing the work.

 

I think that the figure is reasonable. What I question is whether it's the best use of the money. They will decide to do whatever they want, and I will probably go my own way, since I'm getting nothing from the group anyway. I just don't fit in and I'm tired of trying to, in the limited fashion that I've been trying.

[phathui5]

Our doula group spends about $13 a month for our website. We could do it cheaper if we paid yearly instead, but this works for now.

[justamouse]

that's just crazy.

 

Throw up a blog, use all of the pages.

 

I'm with gooblink-having owned commerce websites, I never spent that much $. This ought to be MUCH easier than that.

[lionfamily1999]

IME, it's not surprising that 10% of the people are doing the majority of the work. Perhaps the site upgrades would make it easier for them.

 

I don't know if this is too much to pay, because I don't have access to their budget. IMO, spending more than $20 for a pair of jeans is too much, spending more than $150 for groceries for the week is too much. That's the result of MY financial situation though and I understand that for many people paying that small of an amount would be impossible.

 

My sil's brother is a web designer. He charges a lot, because he work is worth a lot of money. If they're having someone else do the work of building the site (I mean, 10% of people are carrying the work load already) then that could explain the cost.

[Parrothead]

To me thousands of dollars for a website such as you described equals "follow the money." Someone's being had and someone is benefiting.

[cathmom]

I don't know if this is too much to pay, because I don't have access to their budget. IMO, spending more than $20 for a pair of jeans is too much, spending more than $150 for groceries for the week is too much. That's the result of MY financial situation though and I understand that for many people paying that small of an amount would be impossible.

 

 

 

That's why I gave the budget info earlier. It looks to me like total income is just over $10K. With a $2000 minimum fee, the website would be 1/5 of normal operating expenses. IMO, that's a lot.

 

Also, it looks to me, from the budget info I got, that the group itself is operating in the red on a yearly basis. If all the $$ is allocated for normal programs and operating expenses, then where are the thousands coming from for the website? These are the questions I have.

 

But it really seems like my options are to volunteer for the board so I can influence decisions (except I can't do this because dh would kill me! I'm overextended already) or leave the group. Or, I guess, just deal and let them do what they want to do, even if I think it's crazy and insane.

[idnib]

Ex-web developer here...

 

Whether this is too much money really depends on the functionality you're getting. Web sites are more work than people think. They see the front-end but not the code behind it.

 

I would not be surprised if a large portion of the $ is for adding the ability to purchase membership. Not that the functionality has to be expensive (there are plenty of good free ways to take money over the web) but because they take time to implement and you're paying by the hour.

 

I think you could save money by having a web site that doesn't have payment ability but linking to a Paypal account for payments. Or if you want to have payments on the site you should look into Google checkout and the ability to create web forms that update a spreadsheet in Google docs. Those are more turnkey solutions which should take somewhat less time to implement.

[cathmom]

Ex-web developer here...

 

Whether this is too much money really depends on the functionality you're getting. Web sites are more work than people think. They see the front-end but not the code behind it.

 

 

 

Yes, there was a lot of discussion about this - front end and back end, and the back end having to be really easy so other people could use it.

[Sandy in Indy]

I haven't read all of the discussion...my group uses homeschool-life.com for our site. It costs us $5/family/year (I think!). I love it because it's all click and go--I don't have to know anything about web design. It's been a wonderful thing for our group.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

No this doesn't seem like a good use of funds. We recently had to let our Boy Scout Troop website die because the former scout parent who had set it up was moving on, it cost over $200 a year for the hosting and it had been written in a code/format that no one else in the group knew how to use.

 

There are too many easier and less expensive ways of having an online presence. The group needs to consider not only the set up cost but the cost to change the website everytime something needs to be adjusted or changed. Will the benefit of having online registration be overshadowed by the technical issues (people whose browsers won't open the page or who enter the wrong info and can't correct it). How will the group get payment for online registrations? Will they end up having to pay to process credit cards? (I don't use Paypal and wouldn't get an account with them just to join a group. So they'd either have to deal with me on paper or they wouldn't have me as a member.)

 

You might also ask what information is being collected. When I was handling registrations for our last group, I cut several fields out of the registration form. For example, we'd been collecting info on hobbies and curriculum, but not doing anything with the info. So we stopped collecting it. Instead people tend to just ask about stuff on our email group.

[Sputterduck]

Thousands?

 

It costs me like... 5 dollars a month for all the sites I host.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think a nifty website could easily cost thousands. I just haven't been part of a homeschool group that I thought could actually benefit from that much expense.

 

If the main thing is to make it easier to process registrations, I think there are more cost effective ways of doing that. But then I don't use Paypal and would be wary of giving credit card info to a homeschool support group (or any other small group run by volunteers).

[lionfamily1999]

That's why I gave the budget info earlier. It looks to me like total income is just over $10K. With a $2000 minimum fee, the website would be 1/5 of normal operating expenses. IMO, that's a lot.

 

Also, it looks to me, from the budget info I got, that the group itself is operating in the red on a yearly basis. If all the $$ is allocated for normal programs and operating expenses, then where are the thousands coming from for the website? These are the questions I have.

 

But it really seems like my options are to volunteer for the board so I can influence decisions (except I can't do this because dh would kill me! I'm overextended already) or leave the group. Or, I guess, just deal and let them do what they want to do, even if I think it's crazy and insane.

Ah, I must've missed the budget info. I do think the only option would be to volunteer, but it doesn't look doable for you. Does this really mean you have to quit? Eh, I don't think so. It's not your headache, iykwIm. They're the ones that have to figure out how to make it all work. Also, I think some non-profits run in the red for tax reasons. I don't think they're allowed to have anything left over.

 

I'm not an accountant though :p