Winterpromise policy question

[GraciebytheBay]

I have a question about giving away Winterpromise materials. I realize that according to their policy, I cannot re-sell their original materials. But can I give it away? If I offer it free (for the cost of shipping), would that violate their policy? I copied the relevant portion below. If I interpret it correctly, it seems that I should not give it away either, as the author/illustrator would not receive payment for their work whether I profit from it or not.

 

It would seem a shame not to be able to allow someone else to use these, as I ordered them and decided not to use them at the last minute.

 

What do you think?

 

From the Winterpromise website:

With that in mind, understand that we price our materials with the intent of providing this ongoing support to a single family. The price of the materials also pays the authors and illustrators who work with us, many of whom are also homeschool families. We pay them according to the numbers of each title that is sold. When a resource is resold, these families do not receive payment for their work.

 

So, when materials are resold, those families receive the benefit of ongoing support, despite the fact that they did not purchase it from WinterPromise. It also keeps good authors and illustrators and their families from receiving payment for their work.

[Lovedtodeath]

Giving it away does violate their policy. I feel no guilt, however, selling something that I did not use.

[DawnM]

Agreed, this is a request.....the WP police won't show up at your door.

[Parrothead]

It is the same with any book one buys for one's use then resells. The author of any curriculum does not get money for the second sale.

 

Have you ever seen the page in some books that say something to the extent of if you have a book without a cover someone dumpster dived for it and they publisher nor author is getting paid for the cook in your hands.

 

Guilt trip, nothing more.

[silliness7]

Have you contacted them about returning it? I don't know how long you've held onto it, so maybe that's not an option.

 

I agree with the pp that they have made a Request. You are not obligated to abide by it.

 

Their reasoning seems to be that they can only afford to give customer support to the original purchaser. They cannot afford to give that support to 2 or 3 or more families when they only received payment from 1 family. Whatever. :tongue_smilie:

 

It sounds like you didn't use it and thus didn't utilize the "support" of which they can only afford to give one family per each purchase. So if you sell it or give it away they have not lost anything since they did not invest any "support" into your family.

 

Let someone else have it, imo. And I would not feel guilty selling it. I also don't appreciate companies that play this kind of game.

[Lovedtodeath]

It sounds like you didn't use it and thus didn't utilize the "support" of which they can only afford to give one family per each purchase. So if you sell it or give it away they have not lost anything since they did not invest any "support" into your family.

:iagree:

[AmyinMD]

I think their policy is BS. If you order a paper copy then it should be yours to do with as you wish as long as you are selling the original. They do have a message board but it's not like they are doing anything more for customer support than Sonlight or MFW that don't restrict sales of their items. I know Sonlight does charge for the message board but just buying a core gets you access for awhile plus you can resell your core right on the board if you want to. Plus a lot of WP programs have numerous WP exclusives so you are out a huge amount of money if you decide not to use the program. I bought American Culture last year and have the guidebook, bible study, later american painter study, and state study. That's quite a bit of exclusives I can only throw away even though we wound up not using the program at all. I did not get any "customer support" from WP either unless you count 3 e-mails inquiring as to where the heck my stuff was because it took almost 2 months to get everything.

 

Their older programs have no such disclaimer on them. My AS 1 I purchased in 2006 does not mention resale anywhere on it. I think putting the resale thing on their items does nothing but make them look bad. I'm undecided about whether to try to sell the AC program I have but I'm likely to never order from them again because of their policy.

[RanchGirl]

I think their policy is BS.

 

I agree. This "policy" is so offensive to me that I won't purchase any of their products, even though their catalog looks great and I would love to place an order. It is not a policy, it is a pathetic attempt at guilting customers out of their legal rights. If you purchase a tangible product, you have every right to re-sell it, or give it away. To the OP, I would sell or give them away, whichever you prefer.

[Chris in VA]

Agreeing.

The way I see it, they should allow resale, because they could count it as advertising.

[AngelBee]

Honestly, that puts a bad taste in my mouth about the company. Kind of strange to request such a thing.

[nono]

Well, it's their intellectual property, isn't it? It may not be "common," but it is an agreement between two parties. And just because one isn't going to get caught doesn't mean one shouldn't honor their promises. As many on this thread have pointed out, one has the choice to purchase or not. Nothing of theirs is a "must have" esp. if you follow TWTM. :)

 

As for the OP, since you didn't actually use the product, you still have a 1 use "license" so to speak. Seems like in that instance, you are in the same position as buying it as a gift for someone.

 

Good luck making your decision.

[Gwenhwyfar]

 

As for the OP, since you didn't actually use the product, you still have a 1 use "license" so to speak. Seems like in that instance, you are in the same position as buying it as a gift for someone.

 

 

there ya go. give it away ~ you didn't use it; you bought it for someone else. ;)

 

 

[and when companies make policies that say you can't resell or whatever, someone should ask them if they're proud to be contributing to the world's ever growing landfills... after all, if you can't resell/donate/etc, what are you supposed to do with the unneeded and unwanted product? cover it with dried flowers and use it for a centerpiece?]

[cbollin]

WP is not a license that you bought. It is a product. A book. It's physical. not a license.

 

You have the legal right to resell or give away as long as you aren't making a copy of it to keep. It's called First Sale Doctrine or something like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

"This means that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy ends once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made. This doctrine is also referred to as the "right of first sale," "first sale rule," or "exhaustion rule."

 

 

Their policy is guilt trip the homeschooler by appealing to their emotions. But a good reason not to do business with them.

 

-crystal

[Mom in High Heels]

I sold all my WP stuff last year as a set (the books, etc) and threw in the IG and "exclusives" for free. ;)

[Haiku]

I would never buy from WP in part because of their attempt at guilt-tripping. In this case, I would ignore their "request" simply because of the glaring gramatical error. :D

 

Tara

[2cents]

I was so discouraged by WP that I won't buy from them at all. They sold a product that wasn't even ready for publication and after months of stalling I made them give me a refund. If I had bought any of their products, I would sell them on Ebay or Half like any other curriculum I purchase when I am finished. Personally, their policy and the experience I already had with them keeps me from recommending or even considering any of their products.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, it's their intellectual property, isn't it? It may not be "common," but it is an agreement between two parties. And just because one isn't going to get caught doesn't mean one shouldn't honor their promises. As many on this thread have pointed out, one has the choice to purchase or not. Nothing of theirs is a "must have" esp. if you follow TWTM. :)

 

As for the OP, since you didn't actually use the product, you still have a 1 use "license" so to speak.

My thoughts exactly. That is why I said I have no guilt selling something I didn't use. Thank you for explaining it more clearly.

[GraciebytheBay]

Well, it's their intellectual property, isn't it? It may not be "common," but it is an agreement between two parties. And just because one isn't going to get caught doesn't mean one shouldn't honor their promises. As many on this thread have pointed out, one has the choice to purchase or not. Nothing of theirs is a "must have" esp. if you follow TWTM. :)

 

I ordered the material knowing their request regarding the re-sale policy and intending to honor that request. However, upon seeing it sitting there on the bookshelf, completely unused, I felt like it was ridiculous that someone else's kids shouldn't be able to enjoy it!

 

Hmmm...this is a tough one for me. I don't think I'll order from them again - I have a problem with this. Are there other companies who request this as well? bleh. Thanks for the replies. I'm going to mull this over.

[GraciebytheBay]

[and when companies make policies that say you can't resell or whatever, someone should ask them if they're proud to be contributing to the world's ever growing landfills... after all, if you can't resell/donate/etc, what are you supposed to do with the unneeded and unwanted product? cover it with dried flowers and use it for a centerpiece?]

 

To be honest, I did think of that! It just seems wasteful and irresponsible. It is made of paper, so I suppose I could compost it!;)

[LittleIzumi]

I don't think anyone has the right to even ask you to not give something away. Their customer service reasoning is just silly--it's not like you are still using the customer service once you give it away. It's still just one homeschooling family using one product, and WP would be responding the same if you used it for a second child or if you gave it to a second family. However, I would feel bound to honor the policy if I bought from them. That's why I've only ever bought WP secondhand (from people who obviously disagree with the policy too :tongue_smilie:).

[GraciebytheBay]

So what I'm hearing is that if I decide to sell it, nobody would send me nasty hate pms telling me that I am a horrible human being? Because that would definitely not be worth the 10 whole bucks I might make!

[Lovedtodeath]

What is it? I might want it. ;)

[NanceXToo]

I agree. This "policy" is so offensive to me that I won't purchase any of their products, even though their catalog looks great and I would love to place an order. It is not a policy, it is a pathetic attempt at guilting customers out of their legal rights. If you purchase a tangible product, you have every right to re-sell it, or give it away. To the OP, I would sell or give them away, whichever you prefer.

 

:iagree:

 

there ya go. give it away ~ you didn't use it; you bought it for someone else. ;)

 

[and when companies make policies that say you can't resell or whatever, someone should ask them if they're proud to be contributing to the world's ever growing landfills... after all, if you can't resell/donate/etc, what are you supposed to do with the unneeded and unwanted product? cover it with dried flowers and use it for a centerpiece?]

 

:lol: True!

[LittleIzumi]

So what I'm hearing is that if I decide to sell it, nobody would send me nasty hate pms telling me that I am a horrible human being? Because that would definitely not be worth the 10 whole bucks I might make!

 

I never got any when I resold my bought-secondhand WP stuff :)

[Tap]

I am another customer they lost over this request. I was all set to order from them one year, then after hearing this, changed my mind immediately.

 

I would bet that they have lost more money, and potential word of mouth advertising, due to this policy, than any future profits they would have made. I quite possibly could have been a repeat customer year after year.....but I never even bought the first one due to this policy.

[radiobrain]

I have bought WP stuff new and used. I have sold both.

 

Part of the whole used market, that they seem to fail to realize... is that when someone buys a used copy, and they like it, they are more likely to purchase again. If someone knows that they can sell it for a certain amount used, they are more likely to buy it new, especially when it is expensive.

 

I called them to ask a question and the guy was pretty rude. Then when I purchased what I wanted, 2 weeks later there was a new IG that if I had known about I would have purchased instead (this was for US History, and they came out with that American Crossing or whatever it is called). From a customer service point of view .... if you have a person on the phone, who is purchasing a product, and you know you have a related product coming out soon... don't you mention it? Like "We have a new program coming out in 2 weeks that you might be interested in... blah blah blah" and give me a choice.

 

Well, they didn't and when I got the catalog a week or two later... a way better program (for what I was wanting to do) came out. I was really angry, as I talked to the guy for at least 20 min. asking questions, explaining my goals, situation etc.

 

It soured me completely to them, and have never bought from them again. I do love their catalog, it is beautifully designed, and I use it as a idea generator for what books to use, when. ;)

 

They *think* that they are making themselves more $$, but they aren't. I am sure there are a few HSers who are so morally pure that they would honor the guilt trippy policy, but there are just as many, if not more, who are offended by it and won't ever buy in the first place.

 

WP is one of the only HS companies that I actually dislike.

 

And their product is pretty decent.

[GraciebytheBay]

What is it? I might want it. ;)

 

:001_smile: Two Make Your Own History book packets (Middle Ages). I had planned to use them but ended up switching programs to match with what our co-op was using.

[GraciebytheBay]

after all, if you can't resell/donate/etc, what are you supposed to do with the unneeded and unwanted product? cover it with dried flowers and use it for a centerpiece?]

 

Actually, I can't even do that! I took it out of the plastic, and it has a funky smell!! The plastic smells like skunk and would not enhance my Thanksgiving table in any way. What in the world would make it smell like skunk??:confused:

[Tylianna]

Calvert has the same policy. You can't even use it for ANOTHER CHILD in your immediate family! I spent a lot of money on it for grade 2 and Kg. I almost did it again for 3, 1, and KG... But, I changed my mind and used Sonlight.

 

I remember talking to a Sonlight counselor on the phone and they encourage you to sell it when you are done. Sonlight forums even have a used Sonlight forum that you can post on.