Want to hear from people for whom MCT was a flop

[Halcyon]

I am pretty much set for this year's curriculum but it doesn't hurt to look ahead :lol:. I have an interest in MCT based on threads on this board, but would love to hear from people who have used MCT but found it to not work for their kids, their style, whatever.

[mjpeter]

I am pretty much set for this year's curriculum but it doesn't hurt to look ahead :lol:. I have an interest in MCT based on threads on this board, but would love to hear from people who have used MCT but found it to not work for their kids, their style, whatever.

 

 

:lurk5: I've heard a lot of good things about this curriculum too, but I'm not sold, yet.

[Capt_Uhura]

From my reading, I think it didn't work for kids who just want the facts and move on and don't like too much discussion and/or wants to work independently too much verbiage. My boys LOVE MCT. We did island level last year. I am FLOORED, I mean FLOORED at their level of retention which is near 100%. I even gave them two trick sentences to analyze and they didn't fall for it. I did Island with a 4th grader and 1st grader last year. But my boys love discussion, snuggling on the couch reading together, love language etc.

 

HTH,

 

Capt_Uhura

[mjpeter]

From my reading, I think it didn't work for kids who just want the facts and move on and don't like too much discussion and/or wants to work independently too much verbiage. My boys LOVE MCT. We did island level last year. I am FLOORED, I mean FLOORED at their level of retention which is near 100%. I even gave them two trick sentences to analyze and they didn't fall for it. I did Island with a 4th grader and 1st grader last year. But my boys love discussion, snuggling on the couch reading together, love language etc.

 

HTH,

 

Capt_Uhura

 

I wish my sons would enjoy snuggling on the couch, reading together. Can I come to your house? :lol:

 

I suppose my youngest will snuggle with me, so I'll take that.

 

I can't quite decide on MCT. Some days I'm "yes" and some days I'm "not sure." If I remember correctly, it's quite an investment for the whole curriculum.

 

You being with 3rd grade, correct?

[cottagechick]

I'm currently using MCT Island level with 3rd and 5th grade boys. The only downside I've seen with it so far is that if we miss even a day, they have a hard time remembering the information. I had to go thru the Grammar book 2 full times for them to grasp what MCT keeps saying is simple and logical. To me, yes, it is. To my boys, it's hard. They have gotten frustrated with the material on more than one occasion because these *are* higher level concepts.

 

I heard several gals talk about how their kids just love snuggling on the couch with them and won't miss a day of MCT....my boys groan when I pull it out. The only way we get thru it is by letting them compete and challenge each other with the analysis sentences. They do enjoy the quirky humor, and the pages where they can make up their own silly sentences....but they aren't fooled. It's grammar, it takes brain power to understand, and it's work to recall all those terms. Basically, it's schoolwork that needs done each day. They definitely don't look forward to it, even though we're snuggling on the couch. :001_smile:

[Capt_Uhura]

Cottage chick - a question. You said your boys required going through the Grammar book 2x to get the terms etc. Was this AFTER going though Practice island? Practice Island is really where the cementing takes place.

[Mert]

:bigear: I'm hoping to use this when ds is ready. Just want to hear what those actually using have to say.

[FO4UR]

:lurk5:

 

If the op doesn't mind, I'll add a question to the thread.:001_smile:

 

What are the gaps in MCT? IOW, what areas of LA do you feel MCT needs supplementing given you are doing an entire level?

[Capt_Uhura]

I like adding WWE or SWB narration/copywork/dictation to our language arts schedule. Particularly since I"m doing MCT with younger kids. Some add a daily grammar review using workbooks. I did a workbook Daily Editing which took about 5min per day and I think it was useful for just picking up capitalization, punctuation, grammar errors etc and talking about homophones, homographs etc. In Classics in the Classroom, MCT outlines his literature program.

[scrapbabe]

I'm currently using MCT Island level with 3rd and 5th grade boys. The only downside I've seen with it so far is that if we miss even a day, they have a hard time remembering the information. I had to go thru the Grammar book 2 full times for them to grasp what MCT keeps saying is simple and logical. To me, yes, it is. To my boys, it's hard. They have gotten frustrated with the material on more than one occasion because these *are* higher level concepts.

 

 

I typed up the definitions of the parts of speech, sentences, etc. and put them on the wall. That way they could refresh their memory if they needed a little help. My boys are older though (13 and 10). We're really enjoying it. Sorry to the OP... she wanted to know who doesn't like the program, and I'm chiming in that I do. :001_smile:

 

Smiles,

Shalynn

[Leanna Tomlinson]

I tried MCT with my 12yo last year after a year with Easy Grammar. The level he needed was Town, but he found the font and the stories to be babyish. He did fine with the 4 level sentence analysis, and I think our year with MCT was beneficial, but I went with CLE grammar and LTOW for writing this year.

 

Another problem for me was that I had too many children to teach and not enough time to do it. I needed my 12yo to be more independent. I do have teaching time scheduled, but MCT required too much of me.

[homeschoolally]

 

Another problem for me was that I had too many children to teach and not enough time to do it. I needed my 12yo to be more independent. I do have teaching time scheduled, but MCT required too much of me.

 

Same situation here. I really like the curriculum. I'm sold on MCT's writing style. Our issue was a disruptive little brother, a cramped schedule, and possibly the wrong level. I found that we weren't getting to it regularly enough and the son I'm using it with is all over the place in his abilities.

 

I LOVE Caesar's English 1 and 2. Plan to keep using it--need to be more consistent.

 

Grammar Voyage didn't get any use because it wasn't the correct level for us. I did skim over it myself and take some notes. There were a few things presented in a much better way than my son originally learned them, but since the concepts themselves were review they didn't seem to have that 'wow' factor when I shared them with him. I would have been much happier with the grammar if we'd used it from the beginning or started a level higher.

 

I loved the new perspective on writing with Essay Voyage. We've been with IEW in the past, and it never really suited my 'just the facts, please' son. MCT's writing approach is perfect for him--and we both learned a lot from reading it together, but the assignments never seemed to get finished. This is partially due to my son's difficulty with writing, and partly because the theme of the assignments didn't really interest him. I'll also take some of the blame because I was inconsistent with assigning them.

 

Please keep in mind that your mileage may vary! This is a most unusual student so our experience probably isn't the norm. MCT was not a mistake for us, my son has really enjoyed hearing the excerpts from so many great books. He has become much more familiar with these writers through MCT. I just can't seem to give it the time it deserves--possibly (embarrassing confession ahead) because I don't appreciate good writing as much as I should. Writing is something I wish I could turn over to someone else.

 

I think it is a great curriculum, you just need to be more committed to it than I've been to make it work.

[cottagechick]

Cottage chick - a question. You said your boys required going through the Grammar book 2x to get the terms etc. Was this AFTER going though Practice island? Practice Island is really where the cementing takes place.

 

Nope, we are just finishing Grammar Island. We got thru the parts of speech, and they still couldn't tell the difference between an adjective and an adverb. They also struggle with prepositions. Going thru it a second time seemed to help. We'll start Practice Island next week. I'm glad to hear it will help cement the ideas. :001_smile:

[k2bdeutmeyer]

MCT didn't work for us. DD loved reading it, but didn't grasp any of the concepts really.....even after reading it a few times. In hindsight, I may have put her in too difficult of a level (we did Town level), but she was doing all 5th grade work. I just decided to go with something a little more structured for this year.

 

I think a LARGE part of my problem is that DD and I both have serious ADD brains. We get overwhelmed easily by things that are not micro-organized. MCT does not have the structure we needed in order to not feel overwhelmed.

 

Just my $0.02.

[EKS]

Nope, we are just finishing Grammar Island. We got thru the parts of speech, and they still couldn't tell the difference between an adjective and an adverb. They also struggle with prepositions. Going thru it a second time seemed to help. We'll start Practice Island next week. I'm glad to hear it will help cement the ideas. :001_smile:

 

I agree about Practice Island. That's where the real learning comes.

[radiobrain]

Nope, we are just finishing Grammar Island. We got thru the parts of speech, and they still couldn't tell the difference between an adjective and an adverb. They also struggle with prepositions. Going thru it a second time seemed to help. We'll start Practice Island next week. I'm glad to hear it will help cement the ideas. :001_smile:

 

Well, it isn't going to hurt that you did it twice, but the grammar book is designed to be a hard and fast intro that is then cemented by going through the practice book and the writing book. I don't think that it would be expected for them to fully understand it. MCT seems to like to have the kids be presented with the info, then learn through exposure and practice.

 

I think that prepositions and adverbs are the hardest ones to recognize. Especially for little kids. My kids have completed 2 levels of MCT, we are starting our third. They still have trouble with those. I know they know what they are and what they do, but it is not fully integrated yet. I don't worry about it. They will eventually get it. Most of the time they do. They actually understand most prepositions fine, just the odd ones they don't recognize off he bat and need to use elimination before they go "Oh! Whoops!" ;)

 

From my experience, and from reading all the MCT threads, that everyone can do well with these books, but there are a few kinds of situations and personalities that can make it be a dud. Not enough time, and kids (or parents) who like to check of boxes and get on with it. I have always given the caveat "this will not be the right fit for everyone!" as nothing can be. It is not as easy to break into "lessons" than other curriculum, but can be done. It requires a certain amount of trust and flexibility. It requires teacher involvement, not prep time, and so is not an "independent" program. Some kids don't like the font (it is different for each book, if I remember correctly, only GI has that kid font) or MCT's whimsical sense of humor. Some parents can't relax enough to let it work. These are some reasons it might not fit for some people. But, I might be totally off base, as it works great for us!

 

Another thing... I have noticed that some people start to panic, as they don't see certain things being covered. They are though. They just might not be covered in the level you are in. :D I think that there are some things that MCT doesn't get to until he thinks they are appropriate, and other things he assumes they already know, and if you feel the need to cover them... then go for it. I am now understanding punctuation as a function of grammar, and how it works in that way... which can only be fully understood when you know what each type of phrase is, and how clauses work together. It is pretty cool, actually. I never really got it. I know that eventually, my kids will fully integrate all this info. I don't worry about the day to day stuff. I think of the big picture. When my kids have completed the whole MCTLA program, they will have a really kick-a** foundation for the rest of their life.

 

My 14 cents.

[Dana]

Nope, we are just finishing Grammar Island. We got thru the parts of speech, and they still couldn't tell the difference between an adjective and an adverb. They also struggle with prepositions. Going thru it a second time seemed to help. We'll start Practice Island next week. I'm glad to hear it will help cement the ideas. :001_smile:

 

One idea might be to watch the Schoolhouse Rock clips on adjectives, adverbs, and prepositions & see if that helps with recognition.

[ElizabethB]

One idea might be to watch the Schoolhouse Rock clips on adjectives, adverbs, and prepositions & see if that helps with recognition.

 

Mad libs help, too.

 

You can start with the junior version if you need to, then move up to the real ones.

[KS_]

My kids really hated the style. They love fantasy and silliness in the books they read, but for whatever reason did not like it in their grammar books. I did keep the Practice books and plan to use those again because I think both dc were getting more out of it than traditional diagramming, but ds begged to go back to R&S for grammar because he said he "actually learned something" from R&S.

[Tess in the Burbs]

we borrowed it to try it. They loved sitting and reading Grammar Island. They loved the poetry book. But it wasn't sticking and the practice book was awful.

 

They liked it until they had to apply it ;-)

[Capt_Uhura]

Also, a LOT of the grammar is reinforced in the writing book. I think you'll find after the year, the retention is much better. The grammar book is a quick and dirty, big picture, here is where we're going picture and the nitty gritty gets done in the writing book and Practice books.

 

But there is no program which works for everyone. The hard part is deciding which is which.

 

Good luck! :001_smile:

[Jennay]

The jury is still out for us. I am using the Island Level with DS7 (almost 8, very accelerated learner). We have finished Grammar Island and are 2/3 of the way through Sentence Island, at the beginning of Building Language, and DS is on #22 of Practice Island. We have not started Music of the Hemispheres yet. He's also working through WWE3 and some of SL LA 2Adv. Previously he completed FLL 1/2 and WWE 2, the Beginning Level of Editor in Chief, and Wordly Wise 3000 2nd ed. books 2 and 3.

 

Like: Stories to explain the concepts, Story maker prompts in GI, 4 Level Analysis in PI.

 

Don't like: Writing assignments in SI aren't structured enough for us. DS can read multiple chapters of SI in one sitting and understand it (can explain it to me), but I'm having a hard time deciding when to assign the writing assignments and what is an acceptable effort.

 

Sometimes things come up in PI that haven't been covered in the GI or SI book - like in #20 (possessive adjectives and contractions that are both the subject and the predicate) and #21 ("everyone" functioning as a subject pronoun).

 

I wish there was more to Building Language. More working with the words. He's also doing Wordly Wise Book 4, taking a Latin Class, and we're discussing vocab. in books we read, so I feel we're covered for now in Vocab. but I wish I didn't have to supplement so much.

 

There's no way the Island Level will last us a full school year, even with supplements. However, DS is a very fast learner and he always goes through things faster than average.

 

 

Overall, I like it enough that I think I will order the Town level but will continue to use some supplements.

[Mandy in TN]

What are the gaps in MCT? IOW, what areas of LA do you feel MCT needs supplementing given you are doing an entire level?

We are using Grammar Island over 11 weeks and in addition to the exercises in the back of the book we are incorporating memory work that covers the grammar introduced. This way I know ds is retaining the grammar. We are currently on week 8. We are also using SL LA2adv readers, SL LA2adv dictation, Plaid Phonics Word Study D, and Create Cursive.

 

So, I have added memory work, readers, dictation, phonics, and cursive to MCT Island level.

 

Next week we add Music of the Hemispheres and I am so excited. WooHoo! The week after that we add Sentence Island. Then, in week 12 after we finish Grammar Island, we will begin Practice Island. We start Building Language in week 13.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

I wish there was more to Building Language. More working with the words. He's also doing Wordly Wise Book 4, taking a Latin Class, and we're discussing vocab. in books we read, so I feel we're covered for now in Vocab.

(hijack question)

We are using/ have used similar things. Do you really feel it necessary to supplement MCT with additional vocab (as in he is not retaining enough or learning enough from MCT) or does your ds just crave more? I ask, because we have dropped Wordly Wise in anticipation of Building Language. Should I pick it back up?

 

Thanks-

Mandy

[Capt_Uhura]

You will find that Caesar's ENglish really kicks it up a notch! I don't recall being blown away w/ the writing assignments in Sentence Island. Perhaps they were too open-ended but I focused on dictation and narration instead. The writing is a lot meatier in Town level.

[Doubleblessings]

:lurk5:

[Penelope]

:lurk5:

 

If the op doesn't mind, I'll add a question to the thread.:001_smile:

 

What are the gaps in MCT? IOW, what areas of LA do you feel MCT needs supplementing given you are doing an entire level?

 

We are just 6 weeks into Island, but I have read through all of the books ahead.

 

Here is what I've noticed that is missing, so far, when compared to FLL3, which I also own:

 

beginning diagramming

terms "predicate nominative" and "predicate adjective" instead of the general "subject complement" (I understand this is covered in MCT, just later)

there are other terms like possessive adjective, that I don't see in MCT coming up (eta: i see in another post that these are covered in the practice, but without specific instruction).

 

I wish I could look at a scope and sequence for the levels coming up, because right now, while we love what we are doing so far, I'm not sure the content is at the same level we would get from the suggestions of TWTM (even though it very well may be advanced when compared to the grammar taught in the typical ps).

 

The writing in Sentence Island, GI, and the poetry book is based in creative writing. We have enjoyed a few of the assignments, but are keeping WWE and WT as our primary writing curriculum.

 

Another post reminded me how much we loved the chants in FLL 1 and 2. We are going to keep those up for the verbs and prepositions. I think it is SO helpful when those words from the memory work just jump out at you. Thank you, Jessie Wise! :)

Edited September 9, 2010 by Penelope

[yslek]

I have mixed results at my house. I'm using MCT with T (ds#2). He does it willingly, but claims not to like it. His retention with the program is great, though, so I think it's working for him. He just doesn't have the great love for it that I was hoping he'd have.

[tennismomkelly]

I can't say that MCT was a flop because we never used it, but I did buy it because I thought that it looked great. Once I reviewed it, I knew that it wasn't going to work for us because we need more hand-holding when it comes to writing. The assignments in Sentence Island were way too open-ended for my DS. Also, *I* need something that is a little more teacher friendly. I didn't realize it when I ordered it but I've come to realize that I like having lesson plans already laid out or assignments that have clear start here and end here instructions. I just couldn't wrap my brain around the open it up and read until you feel like stopping concept. :001_huh:

[Jennay]

(hijack question)

We are using/ have used similar things. Do you really feel it necessary to supplement MCT with additional vocab (as in he is not retaining enough or learning enough from MCT) or does your ds just crave more? I ask, because we have dropped Wordly Wise in anticipation of Building Language. Should I pick it back up?

 

Thanks-

Mandy

 

He retains the info very well but is a "word nut". I like that Wordly Wise has them work with the word using the various exercises and includes words that do not have Latin stems. He likes WW and does it independently. I only assign it once a week and he can choose to do between 2 and 4 exercises. (I don't assign the reading comprehension sections as he has a great memory and remembers the words when they come up in his reading). Hope this answers your question...

[Cindyg]

We tried Word Within the Word for three days and hated it. I'm in the process of rewriting it now.

 

That's not the whole curriculum, mind you. Just WWW.

[radiobrain]

I can't say that MCT was a flop because we never used it, but I did buy it because I thought that it looked great. Once I reviewed it, I knew that it wasn't going to work for us because we need more hand-holding when it comes to writing. The assignments in Sentence Island were way too open-ended for my DS. Also, *I* need something that is a little more teacher friendly. I didn't realize it when I ordered it but I've come to realize that I like having lesson plans already laid out or assignments that have clear start here and end here instructions. I just couldn't wrap my brain around the open it up and read until you feel like stopping concept. :001_huh:

 

You shouldn't dump it because the writing doesn't fit right now, especially if you liked the look of it and already own it. I don't think I did a single one of the writing assignments in Sentence Island, but my kids learned a ton.

 

I don't see what could be more teacher friendly than, pick up the book start reading and talking- then stop when you feel like it is over. Then put a bookmark in it. No teacher prep at all. But see, that is the part that some of us try to explain over and over... it is not formally split up into lessons in a "typical" way (although a few people have posted their schedules on the yahoo group) and sometimes that is just not comfortable for some parents.

[scrapbabe]

I can't say that MCT was a flop because we never used it, but I did buy it because I thought that it looked great. Once I reviewed it, I knew that it wasn't going to work for us because we need more hand-holding when it comes to writing. The assignments in Sentence Island were way too open-ended for my DS. Also, *I* need something that is a little more teacher friendly. I didn't realize it when I ordered it but I've come to realize that I like having lesson plans already laid out or assignments that have clear start here and end here instructions. I just couldn't wrap my brain around the open it up and read until you feel like stopping concept. :001_huh:

 

I am exactly how you described. Just tell me what to say, where to start, what to do, and where to end. I love hand holding. I thought I would not be able to use MCT, but I actually love it! No hand holding, but somehow it fits. I guess it's cause you can't go wrong by reading until you want to stop. Nothing tricky to it.

But I completely understand what you're saying. :001_smile:

 

Shalynn

[Mandy in TN]

He retains the info very well but is a "word nut". I like that Wordly Wise has them work with the word using the various exercises and includes words that do not have Latin stems. He likes WW and does it independently. I only assign it once a week and he can choose to do between 2 and 4 exercises. (I don't assign the reading comprehension sections as he has a great memory and remembers the words when they come up in his reading). Hope this answers your question...

 

Thanks, yes that answers my question. Based on that we will probably just use MCT. My ds is a numbers nut, not a word nut. so this will probably be fine.

 

Thanks-

Mandy

[Matryoshka]

Also, a LOT of the grammar is reinforced in the writing book. I think you'll find after the year, the retention is much better. The grammar book is a quick and dirty, big picture, here is where we're going picture and the nitty gritty gets done in the writing book and Practice books.

 

:iagree: Yep - the application is done in the Practice and Writing books, and that's where the repetition and retention come in. They're not meant to "get" a whole year's worth of grammar in a "storybook" that takes 1-2 months to go through! That's the intro, the big picture. The "meat" is in the Writing and Practice books (and the Vocab is wonderful in its own right).

 

I don't think you'll find that anyone who's raving about MCT is using just the Grammar book with none of the others.

[Shawna in Texas]

:iagree: Yep - the application is done in the Practice and Writing books, and that's where the repetition and retention come in. They're not meant to "get" a whole year's worth of grammar in a "storybook" that takes 1-2 months to go through! That's the intro, the big picture. The "meat" is in the Writing and Practice books (and the Vocab is wonderful in its own right).

 

I don't think you'll find that anyone who's raving about MCT is using just the Grammar book with none of the others.

 

Grammar Voyage was just light summer reading for us. Last year I thought Paragraph Town was the single most important book I've bought for school. We are two weeks into Essay Voyage and I have reassessed. It's brilliant and there's quite a bit of hand holding.