Okay, I really do not know how to help my dd with this.

[rookie]

My dd13 has a view that I do not share and that makes her unhappy. She compares herself to others ALL. OF. THE. TIME. There is one family we are friends with who seem to set her off most of all. The children are all very accomplished academically, socially, musically, athletically. They are not competitive towards her AT ALL. I know this for a fact. I also know that we are encouraging her to be her own person, pursue her own passions, have her own goals for herself WITHOUT worrying about what others are doing or thinking.

 

She quit piano because they are better.

She quit soccer because they are better.

She does not want to work hard at history anymore (it was her favorite subject) because they know more.

 

She was going to take up guitar but just found out that they have been playing guitar and she is DEVASTATED. "Why did they have to take up guitar???!!!" she cried when she found out.

 

If she continues to see the world this way, WHAT WILL SHE DO? There will always be people who are more accomplished than us. We have to pursue our own life regardless of others. She cannot accept this when we talk about it. I am afraid for her because I think that this will lead to a lot of unhappiness.

 

This is nothing new. It has been a part of her character from early on and it is becoming more and more of an issue.

 

SHE asks to hang out with this family. SHE begs for me to plan things with them. Then she spends her time comparing herself to them and thinking she comes up short and should give up on anything they do because she will never be as good. :confused:

 

Again, no one around her is making her feel this way. It's her on the inside. Her dad and I ARE NOT the cause of this. We do encourage all the dc "to work hard and do your personal best" but NOT in competition with others. She acts this way with her siblings too. The siblings do not respond in kind. They each plug along and do their thing.

 

I do not know how to help her. How sad if down the road she has "done" nothing because she will not be the "best."

 

By they way, the reason these other kids and my other dc are accomplished in certain areas is because they practice a lot and are very disciplined in their pursuits. She "likes" things until they "get hard" and then fusses about doing them or slows down in practicing so never gets beyond the beginners stage.

 

WHAT DO I DO???

Are there books she can read on the subject that will inspire her? She does not want to consider anything I say to her because I "only have an adult perspective."

 

Help, please!!!:001_unsure::sad::crying:

[3littlekeets]

Have you thought about having her volunteer with children or teens who have disabilities -- not to compare herself and feel "better" (ICKY), but to see how other learn to love themselves precisely as they are and learn that comparison is not the name of the game!!

 

My DD is 9 and has Trisomy 21 (Down syndrome). She knows she has DS. Sometimes she gets frustrated when others learn things more easily or dance more gracefully, but she never gives up! She happily tells others of her Dx. When somebody (usually an 11 year old boy, LOL, says something to her, she will say, "it's hard for me.Some things are hard for you. I'm trying." :tongue_smilie:

[rookie]

Have you thought about having her volunteer with children or teens who have disabilities -- not to compare herself and feel "better" (ICKY), but to see how other learn to love themselves precisely as they are and learn that comparison is not the name of the game!!

 

My DD is 9 and has Trisomy 21 (Down syndrome). She knows she has DS. Sometimes she gets frustrated when others learn things more easily or dance more gracefully, but she never gives up! She happily tells others of her Dx. When somebody (usually an 11 year old boy, LOL, says something to her, she will say, "it's hard for me.Some things are hard for you. I'm trying." :tongue_smilie:

 

 

That's beautiful. It made me cry. I wish my dd would think that way. She has everything: health, intelligence, beauty and can only see what she does not have. Sigh.

 

 

I will look into the volunteering.

 

Thank you for the idea.

[Mommyfaithe]

:grouphug:

 

I deal with this all the time with my kids...they are wonderful kids...but we are slightly above average ...not outliers...KWIM? I get frustrated as well....because we WANT to be awesome...and we work hard to be awesome....BUT...we are ...well......average...LOL. Sounds funny when I write it down, but it is true., We keep on striving, and we do our best, and have fun doing it...BUT JUST ONCE....I want to see them come out # 1...not # 3 or #4....so close...but not quite there....

 

Faithe

[3littlekeets]

Special Olympics loves teen volunteers, and I can't tell you how many students I have had whose lives were changed by Special Olympics. There is also Para Olympics (for individuals with physical disabilities).

 

Teen years are just plain hard! I do hope you find a way to help your dd through this rough patch! :grouphug:

[MelanieM]

Does she want to work on this aspect of herself? I mean, is she willing to try some things to help herself feel better? I think my suggestions will only work if she's willing to try.

 

If this were my daughter, I would have her start a gratitude journal for herself. Each day, have her write five things about herself that she appreciates. These should be *new* things, not repeats of previously written things. (I.e. no copying from the day before. Obviously things might be repeats over time.) Anything counts, even if it's something as simple as "I like how my hair looks after I curl it." It's important that nothing other than appreciation goes into this book... it is only a place for positive aspects. Then, any time she's feeling down on herself, have her read through her journal.

 

If this is something you think she won't be willing to do on her own, then perhaps you can make it a family project. Get a journal for each person in the family and have everyone do this exercise daily. You could also encourage people to write in each other's journals, so you write positive aspects in hers, she writes them in her sibling's journal, etc. In fact, this approach might even be more helpful as it has all sorts of lovely side benefits for the whole family. :D

 

I would also model changing to more positive thoughts, as often as you can. So if you're thinking something negative about yourself, say it out loud. Then follow that up with a positive spin about yourself. I.e. "Gosh, I feel like I always mess up when I try and cook this dish. I'm so disappointed! But you know, I always do a good job at baking cookies. That counts for something!" This is not about changing *her* thoughts, but more about modeling how you might engage in negative-to-positive inner dialog so she can see how a healthy perspective truly operates.

 

Best of luck to you. She's a lucky girl to have you there, helping her along with this.

[Mejane]

This is my 17yo daughter to a T. She is a beautiful ballet dancer who has been approached to go into company, but the moment she sees a "better" dancer, someone thinner, etc, she wants to quit. I've talked until I'm blue in the face, especially about the regrets one feels if they don't try. It's exhausting constantly building someone up, so I have essentially let go at this point. I've told her it's her life and she needs to decide.

 

I know this isn't much help to you right now as your daughter is only 13, but mine has been this way her whole life, too, and this is where we have ended up. So, fwiw...

[H.S. Burrow]

My dd13 has a view that I do not share and that makes her unhappy. She compares herself to others ALL. OF. THE. TIME. There is one family we are friends with who seem to set her off most of all. The children are all very accomplished academically, socially, musically, athletically. They are not competitive towards her AT ALL. I know this for a fact. I also know that we are encouraging her to be her own person, pursue her own passions, have her own goals for herself WITHOUT worrying about what others are doing or thinking.

 

She quit piano because they are better.

She quit soccer because they are better.

She does not want to work hard at history anymore (it was her favorite subject) because they know more.

 

She was going to take up guitar but just found out that they have been playing guitar and she is DEVASTATED. "Why did they have to take up guitar???!!!" she cried when she found out.

 

If she continues to see the world this way, WHAT WILL SHE DO? There will always be people who are more accomplished than us. We have to pursue our own life regardless of others. She cannot accept this when we talk about it. I am afraid for her because I think that this will lead to a lot of unhappiness.

 

This is nothing new. It has been a part of her character from early on and it is becoming more and more of an issue.

 

SHE asks to hang out with this family. SHE begs for me to plan things with them. Then she spends her time comparing herself to them and thinking she comes up short and should give up on anything they do because she will never be as good. :confused:

 

Again, no one around her is making her feel this way. It's her on the inside. Her dad and I ARE NOT the cause of this. We do encourage all the dc "to work hard and do your personal best" but NOT in competition with others. She acts this way with her siblings too. The siblings do not respond in kind. They each plug along and do their thing.

 

I do not know how to help her. How sad if down the road she has "done" nothing because she will not be the "best."

 

By they way, the reason these other kids and my other dc are accomplished in certain areas is because they practice a lot and are very disciplined in their pursuits. She "likes" things until they "get hard" and then fusses about doing them or slows down in practicing so never gets beyond the beginners stage.

 

WHAT DO I DO???

Are there books she can read on the subject that will inspire her? She does not want to consider anything I say to her because I "only have an adult perspective."

 

Help, please!!!:001_unsure::sad::crying:

 

 

:grouphug: Please, please know that I am speaking very gently here. Did you allow here to quit these activities mid-season/semester? If so, then you may be subconciously feeding her thoughts that she is not "good enough". We went through several periods of this type of thougth with my now nearly 16DD. One of our family rules is that you aren't allowed to quit during the season or semester (however the activity is usually scheduled). Our reasons that we have always given are: "you've made a committment to your team" and "your instructor has already committed to teaching you for the semester/year and her income is based on her students".

 

One thing that we had to contend with in addition to the constant comparisons was the belief that she should be able to "do it right" the first time no matter what she was attempting. When she was 6 and this was our biggest concern, I actually joined our church's bell choir to show her that even grown-ups have to learn how to do something and that it takes practice to do it right. I would make a point of letting her see *me* learn something new and make mistakes.

 

The only advice I have is to be sure that you don't allow her to quit something because she doesn't think that she's any good at it or that someone else is better. Allowing her to quit will be confirming (in her 13yo mind) that you don't think she's any good either. :grouphug:

Edited August 21, 2010 by H.S. Burrow
wrong word

[Harriet Vane]

It sounds like some perspective on the poor and the handicapped is in order. I like the suggestions for volunteering with Special Olympics or some such. Other options would be nursing homes or inner city work.

 

As an example, I live in a challenging urban environment. My home is on the edge of a "bad" neighborhood. My neighbors are a mix or blue collar workers and welfare recipients. About six blocks east of me it's all just rough and poor, and the percentage of people who work any job decreases significantly. The volunteering that I do in this area helps both me and my kids stay focused on how God has blessed us.

 

However, there is always the contrast of the neighborhood to the west of us. Just one block away, across the street, is the start of a wealthy suburb replete with manicured lawns and gorgeous homes. Continue north or west just two miles and you'll find yourself surrounded by million dollar mansions.

 

Compared to the neighborhood east of us, our home is a haven of luxury. Compared to the neighborhoods west and north of us, our home is a cracking, peeling, fixer-upper. There are times that we feel the cracking, peeling, unfinished nature of our home acutely. Typically a trip to the east of us cures that. However, even more effective than that for us was a trip to Guatemala, where we saw life in a third world country first hand. (Incidentally, it's no different from life in the inner city of Chicago--an eye-opening less for us Americans.)

 

I have two suggestions:

 

1. Insist that she continue with a sport or instrument or whatever for a certain duration whether she wants to or not. No more quitting when it gets hard.

 

2. Volunteer with the less fortunate on an ongoing basis, more than just a time or two.

 

One other suggestion might be to totally forbid any verbalization of her comparisons to the other family. Tell her you'll not indulge that talk or thinking any further.

[Ester Maria]

On a scale large enough, everybody is mediocre. And people then become largely similar, in spite of their differences which, in everyday life, sometimes tend to appear so huge - they all strive to survive, to be happy, to lead lives that are meaningful to them, they seek approval and real emotional ties with other people.

 

Sometimes, especially in those teenage struggle years, it's easy to fall into a trap of thinking that the only way to get that is to be truly outstanding at something, having an area which is "only yours" and in which you are the best. But there are two problems with that. One, there are always broader circles than your current one, so you will necessarily always come into contact with other people, who will be on par with you and - gasp! - better, and if you don't have certain things clearly set in your mind, that will only prolong your frustrations. And two, even assuming it's possible that you have an area in which you're the best in the world... people don't relate to excellent musicians, excellent sportsmen, excellent scientists or excellent painters - people relate to, well, other people. Being impressed with somebody's giftedness in a particular area is of a short duration, if that's not backed up by an interesting personality. :)

 

Interesting personality is something that's being developed, though there are people that are more charming :D, but even they would have not possibly remain such if they closed themselves for the world. The key to an interesting personality, as well as the key to a healthy outlook on life and oneself, is a certain openness of attitude. Not that it means that you have to try everything that's out there and "live it up" - but it means that you are trying, consciously, to get the best out of life, and approaching life with a healthy dose of humor (not to say healthy cynicism when things go bad ;)).

Getting the best out of life is far, far from synonimous with closing yourself for the world and being afraid to try out of an a priori inferiority complex. Try things. Fail. Try again. Switch to different things that make you more happy. See others that are better than you and consider it an opportunity to learn. See others that are more struggling and consider it an opportunity to teach and to help. It's all pieces of the puzzle.

 

Your daughter is very, very lucky to be surrounded by people who are better than her. :) That's an excellent opportunity to learn and grow. People who are surrounded by other people who are, in lack of better expression, "on a higher level than them" and thus lift them up, are generally far more lucky than people who are "lighthouses" for other people, but don't have their own "lighthouses" to look up to and learn from - the latter is a lonely condition, and even if it flatters the ego, it's temporary.

It's all in her head: she can decide that she's miserable and that it's all about a competition, or she can decide that she's ready for a challenge to GROW and to become the best person SHE can be. Become the best version of her own self, not a copy of somebody else.

 

It's hard to change a perspective, and it takes years.

But, people generally regret the things they didn't do in life, not the things they did and failed at doing them. Giving up activity after activity just because it's a field somebody else tried, or became better at it, is in the end only going to hurt the one who gives up and deprive her of valuable and fun experiences.

 

Volunteering, journals of stuff we appreciate, or just spending time around small children and their endless enthusiasm about learning and growing (other when they're throwing tantrums :lol:, but even then... after they calm, they're full of life and enthusiasm again) might help, but it's a process, since it doesn't involve learning a specific bit of information, but making this whole perspective and life approach shift which is a HUGE shift and can be made only once you've gained some experience, and some painful experience about things you're missing because you choose to drown in your own misery until you realize that it leads nowhere and that you're, finally, here to learn and grow, and that frustration will only hurt YOU in the end... Can you tell that I'm speaking from experience? ;)

 

I know how hard it is for you. :grouphug: But really, it's all in her head and it's something that you can't help her much with, other than providing her with an example of a positive attitude towards life. It's something that she needs to clear up with herself.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Ester Maria
I'm illiterate. There are probably more typoes left.

[kalanamak]

This is my 17yo daughter to a T. She is a beautiful ballet dancer who has been approached to go into company, but the moment she sees a "better" dancer, someone thinner, etc, she wants to quit. I've talked until I'm blue in the face, especially about the regrets one feels if they don't try. It's exhausting constantly building someone up, so I have essentially let go at this point. I've told her it's her life and she needs to decide.

 

 

Personally, I would not read any books, arrange any "experiences", and not talk at all, let alone until blue in the face. Carry on setting a good example of diligence, goodness of heart, slow-and-steady, joie de vivre, and not give her a bit of advice or attention over the matter. If she comes to talk and really want advice, I'd give it, but at the first "yes, but..." whine I'd tell her she could listen to advice, or she could whine to herself, but not both.

 

This is a problem she'll have to wrestle with herself. We can wipe every runny nose when the child is young, but we cannot tidy up ever package in heart of a teen. I was that child, and now I see why my mother did what she did. :grouphug:

[Remudamom]

I don't have any patience with this, (in fact, I don't have any patience with any type of silliness) but I'd tell her to straighten up, count her blessings and quit bellyaching and pity partying. And I'd also tell her activities with these friends are on hold until she can do so.

 

At 13 she needs to grow up a bit. Her attitude is extremely self centered and whiney. The others are right, she needs some wake up therapy with folks who really have disabilities.

[Dawn in OH]

I would think that being surrounded by people that are better than you (I use "you" in the general term) at something would actually be good for you. It sets the bar higher for one to advance and do better. If you were already better than everyone else around you at everything, where would the motivation to work harder and be even better be?

 

I was the kid that wanted to be the best at everything, and compared myself to everyone else. Had no one been better than me at things, I would have declared myself the best and stopped working. I wasn't the type to quit because someone else was better than me. Seeing people better than myself at things made me work harder.

 

Does your daughter understand that with more practice, more studying, she can know as much as they do, if not more? She can also learn from these friends. She can ask them for help. They can train for their sports together. They can practice their instruments together. It's a great bonding experience, and everyone involved could learn something.

[rookie]

I would think that being surrounded by people that are better than you (I use "you" in the general term) at something would actually be good for you. It sets the bar higher for one to advance and do better. If you were already better than everyone else around you at everything, where would the motivation to work harder and be even better be?

 

I was the kid that wanted to be the best at everything, and compared myself to everyone else. Had no one been better than me at things, I would have declared myself the best and stopped working. I wasn't the type to quit because someone else was better than me. Seeing people better than myself at things made me work harder.

 

Does your daughter understand that with more practice, more studying, she can know as much as they do, if not more? She can also learn from these friends. She can ask them for help. They can train for their sports together. They can practice their instruments together. It's a great bonding experience, and everyone involved could learn something.[/QUOTE]

 

 

 

This is the say my DH and I think/act and what we have explained to her many times. She does not accept it. Argues, cries, whines, and refuses to continue working hard at the "thing" she said she wanted to learn. DH and I have become hesitant in the last couple of months to sign her up for anything because of this.

[rookie]

I don't have any patience with this, (in fact, I don't have any patience with any type of silliness) but I'd tell her to straighten up, count her blessings and quit bellyaching and pity partying. And I'd also tell her activities with these friends are on hold until she can do so.

 

At 13 she needs to grow up a bit. Her attitude is extremely self centered and whiney. The others are right, she needs some wake up therapy with folks who really have disabilities.

 

I completely agree and we have tried the buck-up approach but it seems to ratchet it up for her.

[rookie]

Personally, I would not read any books, arrange any "experiences", and not talk at all, let alone until blue in the face. Carry on setting a good example of diligence, goodness of heart, slow-and-steady, joie de vivre, and not give her a bit of advice or attention over the matter. If she comes to talk and really want advice, I'd give it, but at the first "yes, but..." whine I'd tell her she could listen to advice, or she could whine to herself, but not both.

 

This is a problem she'll have to wrestle with herself. We can wipe every runny nose when the child is young, but we cannot tidy up ever package in heart of a teen. I was that child, and now I see why my mother did what she did. :grouphug:

 

Trying to understand this approach ... are you saying that your mom just ignored your whining, complaining, etc.? Did she let you sign up for stuff Did she allow you to quit? How did she approach practicing?

[Remudamom]

I completely agree and we have tried the buck-up approach but it seems to ratchet it up for her.

 

Just keep it up. At the very least she can be a downer in her own room and not infect the rest of the family.

[mktkcb]

All I can say is that I have a child like this, who compares herself to all manner of "others". She has always steadfastly refused to take piano because her younger brother was good at it...etc. I've done some of what you have. Separate "stuff". etc. I think you need to do some serious nagging and dragging. What's with the letting her quit thing? I'd be right there while she practiced making sure she was doing what she was supposed to. I'm with the other mom who advised finding an appropriate friend related consequence for this. My mantra with my perfectionistic son has always been "Nobody gives (or will give) a fig about how talented you are or whether you are the best at ANYTHING!!!! (picture me somewhat frustrated LOL) ALL THAT MATTERS is how hard you work!!!!! *smart* and *talented* people are EVERYWHERE, but there are not so many that can work hard. GRRRRRRR!!!!! (go give yourself a swirly dear child...)" Personally, I would tell her she cannot spend time with this family until her attitude changes. I might even tell her that her life is over until she changes her attitude. She seriously needs to get over herself. It has nothing to do with self esteem, but a lot to do with PRIDE, iykwim. Tell her she can feel however she darn well wants, but it better never come out her mouth or show in her behavior. But I'm mean :o). Lots of good positive ideas from others as well.

[rookie]

Does she want to work on this aspect of herself? I mean, is she willing to try some things to help herself feel better? I think my suggestions will only work if she's willing to try.

 

If this were my daughter, I would have her start a gratitude journal for herself. Each day, have her write five things about herself that she appreciates. These should be *new* things, not repeats of previously written things. (I.e. no copying from the day before. Obviously things might be repeats over time.) Anything counts, even if it's something as simple as "I like how my hair looks after I curl it." It's important that nothing other than appreciation goes into this book... it is only a place for positive aspects. Then, any time she's feeling down on herself, have her read through her journal.

 

If this is something you think she won't be willing to do on her own, then perhaps you can make it a family project. Get a journal for each person in the family and have everyone do this exercise daily. You could also encourage people to write in each other's journals, so you write positive aspects in hers, she writes them in her sibling's journal, etc. In fact, this approach might even be more helpful as it has all sorts of lovely side benefits for the whole family. :D

 

I would also model changing to more positive thoughts, as often as you can. So if you're thinking something negative about yourself, say it out loud. Then follow that up with a positive spin about yourself. I.e. "Gosh, I feel like I always mess up when I try and cook this dish. I'm so disappointed! But you know, I always do a good job at baking cookies. That counts for something!" This is not about changing *her* thoughts, but more about modeling how you might engage in negative-to-positive inner dialog so she can see how a healthy perspective truly operates.

 

Best of luck to you. She's a lucky girl to have you there, helping her along with this.

 

 

I will work on this and start the family journal. Thank you for your advice!

[rookie]

:grouphug: Please, please know that I am speaking very gently here. Did you allow here to quit these activities mid-season/semester? If so, then you may be subconciously feeding her thoughts that she is not "good enough". We went through several periods of this type of thougth with my now nearly 16DD. One of our family rules is that you aren't allowed to quit during the season or semester (however the activity is usually scheduled). Our reasons that we have always given are: "you've made a committment to your team" and "your instructor has already committed to teaching you for the semester/year and her income is based on her students".

 

One thing that we had to contend with in addition to the constant comparisons was the belief that she should be able to "do it right" the first time no matter what she was attempting. When she was 6 and this was our biggest concern, I actually joined our church's bell choir to show her that even grown-ups have to learn how to do something and that it takes practice to do it right. I would make a point of letting her see *me* learn something new and make mistakes.

 

The only advice I have is to be sure that you don't allow her to quit something because she doesn't think that she's any good at it or that someone else is better. Allowing her to quit will be confirming (in her 13yo mind) that you don't think she's any good either. :grouphug:

 

Good advice. We have not allowed her to quit mid-stream. She has had to get to the natural end of something (the season, the recital, etc.). The thing is she is usually pretty good and well liked by her teachers/coaches. BUT as soon as it gets hard and she would have to work really hard to move on to the next level she does not want to. THen, of course, the kids who are willing to do the work surpass her abilities. Then, she feels "less than." :glare:

[mktkcb]

not sure what you mean by ratchet....does that mean she wants to quit more things? ...... whine more? .....I don't know....2 can play that game LOL :o). Maybe you need to find out just exactly what it might take for her to decide "ratcheting" isn't such a great idea. I agree with all the others about volunteering also.

[mktkcb]

ok, after reading a bit more, it sounds like you've at least made her stick with stuff for awhile. Could I gently suggest you pick one thing (that you know she is definitely good at) and tell her she is in it for the long haul...like till she graduates? My son plays piano, and he is spd and routinely wants to quit when things are hard. I've told him he can quit when he finishes level 10 of certificate of Merit :o). Which should be about when he graduates HS (he is 13).

[rookie]

On a scale large enough, everybody is mediocre. And people then become largely similar, in spite of their differences which, in everyday life, sometimes tend to appear so huge - they all strive to survive, to be happy, to lead lives that are meaningful to them, they seek approval and real emotional ties with other people.

 

Sometimes, especially in those teenage struggle years, it's easy to fall into a trap of thinking that the only way to get that is to be truly outstanding at something, having an area which is "only yours" and in which you are the best. But there are two problems with that. One, there are always broader circles than your current one, so you will necessarily always come into contact with other people, who will be on par with you and - gasp! - better, and if you don't have certain things clearly set in your mind, that will only prolong your frustrations. And two, even assuming it's possible that you have an area in which you're the best in the world... people don't relate to excellent musicians, excellent sportsmen, excellent scientists or excellent painters - people relate to, well, other people. Being impressed with somebody's giftedness in a particular area is of a short duration, if that's not backed up by an interesting personality. :)

 

Interesting personality is something that's being developed, though there are people that are more charming :D, but even they would have not possibly remain such if they closed themselves for the world. The key to an interesting personality, as well as the key to a healthy outlook on life and oneself, is a certain openness of attitude. Not that it means that you have to try everything that's out there and "live it up" - but it means that you are trying, consciously, to get the best out of life, and approaching life with a healthy dose of humor (not to say healthy cynicism when things go bad ;)).

Getting the best out of life is far, far from synonimous with closing yourself for the world and being afraid to try out of an a priori inferiority complex. Try things. Fail. Try again. Switch to different things that make you more happy. See others that are better than you and consider it an opportunity to learn. See others that are more struggling and consider it an opportunity to teach and to help. It's all pieces of the puzzle.

 

Your daughter is very, very lucky to be surrounded by people who are better than her. :) That's an excellent opportunity to learn and grow. People who are surrounded by other people who are, in lack of better expression, "on a higher level than them" and thus lift them up, are generally far more lucky than people who are "lighthouses" for other people, but don't have their own "lighthouses" to look up to and learn from - the latter is a lonely condition, and even if it flatters the ego, it's temporary.

It's all in her head: she can decide that she's miserable and that it's all about a competition, or she can decide that she's ready for a challenge to GROW and to become the best person SHE can be. Become the best version of her own self, not a copy of somebody else.

 

It's hard to change a perspective, and it takes years.

But, people generally regret the things they didn't do in life, not the things they did and failed at doing them. Giving up activity after activity just because it's a field somebody else tried, or became better at it, is in the end only going to hurt the one who gives up and deprive her of valuable and fun experiences.

 

Volunteering, journals of stuff we appreciate, or just spending time around small children and their endless enthusiasm about learning and growing (other when they're throwing tantrums :lol:, but even then... after they calm, they're full of life and enthusiasm again) might help, but it's a process, since it doesn't involve learning a specific bit of information, but making this whole perspective and life approach shift which is a HUGE shift and can be made only once you've gained some experience, and some painful experience about things you're missing because you choose to drown in your own misery until you realize that it leads nowhere and that you're, finally, here to learn and grow, and that frustration will only hurt YOU in the end... Can you tell that I'm speaking from experience? ;)

 

I know how hard it is for you. :grouphug: But really, it's all in her head and it's something that you can't help her much with, other than providing her with an example of a positive attitude towards life. It's something that she needs to clear up with herself.

 

 

I am printing this and reading and re-reading and re-reading! Thank you.

[kalanamak]

Trying to understand this approach ... are you saying that your mom just ignored your whining, complaining, etc.? Did she let you sign up for stuff Did she allow you to quit? How did she approach practicing?

 

She did not tolerate whining and complaining.* We were long since trained to go to our room and pout. If I came to her with something, I got the truth unvarnished ("you're whole life you'll meet people who are better than you at something, and the sooner you stop bellyaching and giving two hoots and a hollar about what those idiots can or can't do, the better. Get up on your two feet and do for yourself. And remember, if you piddle around forever, you'll find you are 35 and HOLlow and EMpty and, well, a real loser. You're little problems now will be like a water pistol fight compared to the Battle of Midway. HAH! We should all have time to whine!" and off she'd go to Mt. Laundry). I went through about a year of writing miserably sad poetry and listening to the a.m. radio in my room. I emerged ready for bear. I never got a poke or a prod to DO or achieve anything. My folks were supreme believers in the privacy of the mind, as well as making one's own bed and lying in it.

 

I recall the first time I met hubby's ex. Her just 16 year old daughter had eaten too much pizza, and was lying on her lap in the living room getting a back rub and lots of sympathy. My mother would have been in the kitchen and have muttered a "Serves you right. I raised you to have more sense than that! Have a drink of water and get out from underfoot." It has taken this girl a VERY long time to mature to anything vaguely unmanipulative and un-histrionic. Her prolonged adolescence was a product of what my mother used to declare periodically: "Dr. Spock's chickens have come home to roost!" And not only did the girl get a back rub and get out of helping with the potluck, she got to be the center of attention in living room couch. "Illness" or "unhappiness" at center stage. There are real problems in life, but a meal of too much pizza is not pancreatic cancer. She went on to lines like "I'm on Prozac because of you, Daddy" and "I'd call you every week if you'd get me a cell phone."

 

I don't mean to be mean or insult your concern. I know it is hard to move from an infant whom you give everything to a child who needs to pull on her own. I go over this regularly with hubby (who, remember, is that father of that pizza-eating girl). I know he coddles kiddo, because every night when I get home, we have a simple show down. He hollars from the other room for me to "get something", and I tell him to get it himself, and the next time he demands like a toddler, he'll lose dessert, and if he hollars about anything short of fire or an open artery again tonight, he'll spend some time in his room, and my son IMMediately stops it. As he gets older, I'm now using the line "who do you think I am, your father?", and he gets it.

 

I was allowed to "sign up for stuff" if I earned it. Mother wanted me to take X number of years of piano lessons. I got horse back riding lessons as long as I did my piano work (and by the time I'd "paid off" the riding lessons, I like the piano so much I continued). If I quit mid-stream, I think she would have said No to the next thing I wanted. Her "no" would have been dispassionate and sort of a bland "tough tooties" (another phrase I heard regularly). Perhaps make a time frame and if kiddo stopped too soon, have him/her "work off" the wasted lessons with yard work. Or no more "sign ups" until the child has shown some initiative.

 

This whole method is outlined in John Rosemond's 6 Point Plan in Raising Happy Healthy Children. (I did have a beef about the book: he never said please or thank-you.) His point of "make the child's problem the child's problem" is very important. Your girl gets out of things when they are tough, spends how much time and energy trying to get sympathy over it, and now you are distressed and hitting up strange mothers on the internet for help. (:D). She needs to deal with this problem, not you. My folks raised 6 self-starters, and I credit their parenting. HTH.

 

*The flip side of not tolerating whining and complaining is that the MOMent the child presents a polite face, the child is welcomed right back into the fold of the family and whatever we were doing without one word of "what was your problem" etc. The fancy name for this is extinction of a bad behavior.

[rookie]

She did not tolerate whining and complaining.* We were long since trained to go to our room and pout. If I came to her with something, I got the truth unvarnished ("you're whole life you'll meet people who are better than you at something, and the sooner you stop bellyaching and giving two hoots and a hollar about what those idiots can or can't do, the better. Get up on your two feet and do for yourself. And remember, if you piddle around forever, you'll find you are 35 and HOLlow and EMpty and, well, a real loser. You're little problems now will be like a water pistol fight compared to the Battle of Midway. HAH! We should all have time to whine!" and off she'd go to Mt. Laundry). I went through about a year of writing miserably sad poetry and listening to the a.m. radio in my room. I emerged ready for bear. I never got a poke or a prod to DO or achieve anything. My folks were supreme believers in the privacy of the mind, as well as making one's own bed and lying in it.

 

I recall the first time I met hubby's ex. Her just 16 year old daughter had eaten too much pizza, and was lying on her lap in the living room getting a back rub and lots of sympathy. My mother would have been in the kitchen and have muttered a "Serves you right. I raised you to have more sense than that! Have a drink of water and get out from underfoot." It has taken this girl a VERY long time to mature to anything vaguely unmanipulative and un-histrionic. Her prolonged adolescence was a product of what my mother used to declare periodically: "Dr. Spock's chickens have come home to roost!" And not only did the girl get a back rub and get out of helping with the potluck, she got to be the center of attention in living room couch. "Illness" or "unhappiness" at center stage. There are real problems in life, but a meal of too much pizza is not pancreatic cancer. She went on to lines like "I'm on Prozac because of you, Daddy" and "I'd call you every week if you'd get me a cell phone."

 

I don't mean to be mean or insult your concern. I know it is hard to move from an infant whom you give everything to a child who needs to pull on her own. I go over this regularly with hubby (who, remember, is that father of that pizza-eating girl). I know he coddles kiddo, because every night when I get home, we have a simple show down. He hollars from the other room for me to "get something", and I tell him to get it himself, and the next time he demands like a toddler, he'll lose dessert, and if he hollars about anything short of fire or an open artery again tonight, he'll spend some time in his room, and my son IMMediately stops it. As he gets older, I'm now using the line "who do you think I am, your father?", and he gets it.

 

I was allowed to "sign up for stuff" if I earned it. Mother wanted me to take X number of years of piano lessons. I got horse back riding lessons as long as I did my piano work (and by the time I'd "paid off" the riding lessons, I like the piano so much I continued). If I quit mid-stream, I think she would have said No to the next thing I wanted. Her "no" would have been dispassionate and sort of a bland "tough tooties" (another phrase I heard regularly). Perhaps make a time frame and if kiddo stopped too soon, have him/her "work off" the wasted lessons with yard work. Or no more "sign ups" until the child has shown some initiative.

 

This whole method is outlined in John Rosemond's 6 Point Plan in Raising Happy Healthy Children. (I did have a beef about the book: he never said please or thank-you.) His point of "make the child's problem the child's problem" is very important. Your girl gets out of things when they are tough, spends how much time and energy trying to get sympathy over it, and now you are distressed and hitting up strange mothers on the internet for help. (:D). She needs to deal with this problem, not you. My folks raised 6 self-starters, and I credit their parenting. HTH.

 

*The flip side of not tolerating whining and complaining is that the MOMent the child presents a polite face, the child is welcomed right back into the fold of the family and whatever we were doing without one word of "what was your problem" etc. The fancy name for this is extinction of a bad behavior.

 

 

Excellent. Thank you. From one strange mother to another! :)

[justamouse]

My oldest daughter was like that around that age. I don't know if what I did was right, but it worked. I told her to suck it up and I got really hard on her.

 

 

And, after thinking about it some more: success and failure go hand in hand.

 

I've failed over and over and over again in my life and that is why I succeed.

Michael Jordan

 

Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

Winston Churchill

 

(if all she wants is easy success) Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose.

Bill Gates

 

Success is dependent on effort.

Sophocles

 

Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.

George S. Patton

 

It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer.

Albert Einstein

 

Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.

Thomas A. Edison

 

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.

Thomas A. Edison

 

 

 

So, in conclusion, if she doesn't want to work at anything because everyone is better than she is, she's never going to be successful at anything and she can pump gas for the rest of her life. (No offense to gas pumpers out there)

Edited August 21, 2010 by justamouse

[Rosie_0801]

I don't have any patience with this, (in fact, I don't have any patience with any type of silliness) but I'd tell her to straighten up, count her blessings and quit bellyaching and pity partying. And I'd also tell her activities with these friends are on hold until she can do so.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Sometimes I'm willing to work with a person and guide (or kindly manipulate) them. Sometimes I give them a thick ear. In this case, the thick ear would be worded something like "You like to be the best? That's pretty normal. Do you want to know what you are the best at? You are the best at being pathetic. You know why? Because you are working so very hard at it. Cut the crap, Love. It is better to be ok at good things than be the best at bad things, like being a sook."

 

But then, my mother was a lot like Kalanamak's mum :)

 

Rosie

Edited August 21, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Caitilin]

:iagree:

 

Sometimes I'm willing to work with a person and guide (or kindly manipulate) them. Sometimes I give them a thick ear. In this case, the thick ear would be worded something like "You like to be the best? That's pretty normal. Do you want to know what you are the best at? You are the best at being pathetic. You know why? Because you are working so very hard at it. Cut the crap, Love. It is better to be ok at good things than be the best at bad things, like being a sook."

 

Rosie

 

 

:iagree::lol:

 

You and Ester Maria and Kalanamak all nailed it. But this is the funniest.

[FlockOfSillies]

I'm with Rosie on this one.

 

Don't take up guitar, because you'll never be as good as Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, or Phil Keaggy.

 

Don't take up piano -- Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Rachmaninoff, et. al. could blow you out of the water.

 

Don't learn to paint -- you'll never be Leonardo or Michelangelo.

 

Don't go into politics -- Washington and Lincoln broke the mold.

 

Don't learn to fly a plane -- Chuck Yeager and the Blue Angels have got that covered.

 

Don't read books -- there are millions of people who can do it faster and with better comprehension than you can.

 

Don't write novels -- Austen, Hemingway, Dickens... there are too many giants to count.

 

Don't climb a mountain -- other people have already made it to the top of Everest.

 

Don't invent anything -- the world is full of inventors and inventions.

 

Science? "Einstein" is an epithet of the envious for a reason.

 

Don't even bother throwing self-centered tantrums and pouting. Any 2yo can outdo you.

 

There really is nothing new under the sun. Everything you could try to do has been done before, and it's all been done better than you could ever hope to do.

 

Now, if you're trying to be the best quitter in the world, you're well on your way. Stop expecting excellence to be handed to you.

 

Most of the people who achieve great things do so not because they wanted to be the world's best, but because they wanted to do their own best. You are barely even a blip on the radar of history. You'll never be passably good at anything worthwhile if you alternate your time between navel-gazing and envying others.

[rookie]

This has been an incredibly helpful thread. I will be referencing it - often.

Thanks to all! :)

[Garga]

Didn't read everything all the posts, but did read some and they made me think of having her read "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. He explains how successful people became successful: Sometimes it was lucky timing, or an outgoing personality, but often it is just good old fashioned work: endless hours of practice.

 

Yes, you've already told her, but maybe reading it in a book written by someone else will help her to internalize your points.

 

 

Also, if you're Christian, people like to say that everyone needs a Paul, Silas and Timothy in their life. Paul is the person who is farther along the path than you are, and they inspire you. Silas is the one you are walking with side-by-side and you support each other, and Timothy is the one that you get to lead, because you are farther down the path.

 

Sounds like she has her "Pauls", but you might need to find the Silas and Timothy to balance her out. (Like the special olympic ideas others gave for her "Timothy.")

[Mona100]

I know that no one has brought this up but could the OPs daughter have an underlying anxiety issue. I know that I would never be able to listen to all of the uplifting and inspiring things that everyone has mentioned when I was in the midst of my high anxiety and it would actually make it worse. The reason why I mention this is bc you mentioned that she "ratched up" when confronted. That is an anxiety issue. If you guys had raised me, you would never have seen me come out of my room :). Living with a high level of anxiety will make you not ever want to try anything out of your comfort level and no amount of journal writing will solve that; I promise you that. If none of the behavioral modifications work, then medications could be a next step. I wish I had be able to take something when I was a teenager, I think it would have made my life much easier.

[Rebecca VA]

Mona, I so agree about debilitating anxiety. I have one child (age 19) who suffers so severely from anxiety that he used to be reluctant to try anything. We had to force him to go to private school (because when he was homeschooled he stayed in his room most of the time), force him to join Scouts (my husband had to attend every meeting and every outing with him), and so on. Going on anti-anxiety medication is the only thing that has helped him. We can tell instantly when he hasn't been taking his meds. He has really come out of his shell over the past couple of years and is now close to normal. People like him, and he's not afraid to try things! He has an adorable girlfriend! Life is so much better for all of us.

 

The "buck up, kid" method works well with my other child, but not with my anxious one. His anxiety is deeply rooted within him -- it was there from birth. It was not something that could be reasoned away through any amount of talk or threats.

 

________

 

(Garga, I love your Paul, Silas, and Timothy analogy! I've never heard that before!)

 

________

 

Wanted to add: When my second child has difficulties, I take a "What Is Going To Help You Succeed?" approach. She's having trouble getting core strength for ballet? We hired a Pilates trainer. She doesn't like to read because her attention wanders? I read her books with her, making sure she understands by questioning her as we read. Basically, I show her that hurdles can be accomplished by identifying every stumbling block and coming up with a solution. Instead of making her weaker and more dependent, it seems to help her because she realizes that trials can be overcome -- they don't have to cause her to fail completely. She doesn't have to give up an activity -- she just needs to identify exactly where the problem is and pull in reinforcements.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Rebecca VA

[Harriet Vane]

 

 

Also, if you're Christian, people like to say that everyone needs a Paul, Silas and Timothy in their life. Paul is the person who is farther along the path than you are, and they inspire you. Silas is the one you are walking with side-by-side and you support each other, and Timothy is the one that you get to lead, because you are farther down the path.

 

Sounds like she has her "Pauls", but you might need to find the Silas and Timothy to balance her out. (Like the special olympic ideas others gave for her "Timothy.")

 

Beautiful analogy.