SWB's 'Dictation With Dan' on youtube....

[Beth in SW WA]

 

Is this a common practice for parents here of 13-year-olds? SWB says that Dan is a good reader & writer, but needs practice with dictation.

 

She reads the dictation sentences about 10 times (give or take) and then he attempts to write it. I see it as an excellent memory-building skill.

 

Who does this with your middlers? It seems like a long, laborious process for this age? We barely have time for all our subjects -- much less dictation.

 

We love WWE. I have read the text and understand the concept and methodology. I'll do all levels with my younger kiddos. It never occurred to me to do dictation with my middlers.

 

I love seeing SWB in her natural habitat. What a cutie. :)

[Angie in VA]

Thanks for this link, Beth.

 

I've not done nearly enough w/ dictation w/ my dc at ANY age.

 

And about how cute SWB is: she's a Virginian, you know. Just sayin'. ;)

 

Oh, and I must have ADD, b/c I focus more on what's written on the wall above the stove than what she's saying. Not good! (I'd love to know what it says!)

Edited August 20, 2010 by Angie in VA
added to post

[LibraryLover]

I've done dictation with older kids. I can't tell you how happy I was to see that little loop of tape...it went similarly at our place. lol Dictation can be a long and laborious process, so you really need to have the youngin's on board.

Edited August 21, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Beth in SW WA]

 

Oh, and I must have ADD, b/c I focus more on what's written on the wall above the stove than what she's saying. Not good! (I'd love to know what it says!)

 

Same here. I hesitate to ask her what is says. A Latin phrase perhaps? Bible verse? Hmmmmm...... :)

[Joy at Home]

Wow, great link! I'll be concentrating on dictation this year with dd13 as well (after neglecting it for years) so this is so helpful.

 

thanks,

lisa

[Ester Maria]

I saw it just a couple of days ago. :D

 

Personally, I do different dictations with kids, not memory-based (our dictations are half a page long at least, so I read it in small chunks and they write it as I've read each small chunk), and I also use them as a proxy for spelling tests. For example, I would never give a 12-13 y.o. the text that's on that level of simplicity that SWB gives in the video to Dan - I might use such a text with a lower elementary kid, but not really beyond, because the language is very simple there. I don't use dictations as memory builders, though, so we're essentially talking about two different scopes and thus two different approaches.

[Kfamily]

Ester Maria,

Would you be willing to share more details on how you do dictation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Beth if this is off-track a little.:grouphug:

I need to put dictation back into our routine again too, and I want to focus on this with both girls (one 13 and the other 7).

[Beth in SW WA]

Ester Maria,

Would you be willing to share more details on how you do dictation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Beth if this is off-track a little.:grouphug:

I need to put dictation back into our routine again too, and I want to focus on this with both girls (one 13 and the other 7).

 

Great questions. That's why I shared the video. I haven't done dictation the way SWB does it.

 

At the classical school where my younger dds attended last year, the teachers do dictation much differently than SWB.

 

In second grade, the teacher would read a paragraph from Little House (as an example). She would read it once or twice slowly, depending on the complexity of the paragraph. Then she reads chunks at a time and has the students write what they hear, ideally using proper mechanics, spelling, etc.

[LizzyBee]

I did dictation with my older two when they were in middle school, but not as much as I would have liked. As you said, it's hard to complete all the subjects we'd like to cover once they reach middle school!

[Stacy in NJ]

I saw it just a couple of days ago. :D

 

Personally, I do different dictations with kids, not memory-based (our dictations are half a page long at least, so I read it in small chunks and they write it as I've read each small chunk), and I also use them as a proxy for spelling tests. For example, I would never give a 12-13 y.o. the text that's on that level of simplicity that SWB gives in the video to Dan - I might use such a text with a lower elementary kid, but not really beyond, because the language is very simple there. I don't use dictations as memory builders, though, so we're essentially talking about two different scopes and thus two different approaches.

 

I don't think her intention is just to build memory, although that seems to be a significant part of it. I believe it's to help them understand sentence structure. To hear a couple or few sentences and recognize what is a complete thought and how phrases, clauses, and punctuation work to build sentences. Basically, to hear a mush or jumble of words and put them on paper with proper structure. This should lead to coherent paragraphs and later papers with continuity.

[Halcyon]

this was very interesting to watch. thank you!

 

For my 8 yo, we do dictation similarly (primarily using the SOTW narrations and WWE narrations). I read the whole thing a few times, then (since he's only 8) read one sentence and have him write it, then the next, and so on. He does have trouble holding the sentences in his mind, so sometimes we'll act them out while saying them. This helps. :)

[Ester Maria]

Ester Maria,

Would you be willing to share more details on how you do dictation?

I take a random piece of writing: a passage or a few from a book, a newspaper article, whatever I find suitable, but it must be written on the corresponding literacy level. It must be a piece of writing they, ideally, never saw, and they shouldn't see at any point during the process.

 

Take for example a novel for children, De Amicis' Heart, and this passage:

 

"Listen. We have a year to pass together; let us see that we pass it well. Study and be good. I have no family; you are my family. Last year I had still a mother: she is dead. I am left alone. I have no one but you in all the world; I have no other affection, no other thought than you: you must be my sons. I wish you well, and you must like me too. I do not wish to be obliged to punish anyone. Show me that you are boys of heart: our school shall be a family, and you shall be my consolation and my pride. I do not ask you to give me a promise on your word of honor; I am sure that in your hearts you have already answered me 'yes,' and I thank you."

 

Reading level and spelling-wise, this chunk is appropriate for about 2nd grade. The words that appear in it are simple, and the sentence construction is rather simple as well.

 

For 7th-8th grade, I might pick something that's more complex - something from Dickens, Eliot, Wilde, you name it, but something that will, ideally, be challenging, yet made out of words they know.

 

I start by reading the whole chunk of text, as if I were reading it from a book. In this particular case, I precede it by saying that the part I'm reading is a professor addressing his students, I maybe add a word or two of a context for them to be easier to follow.

After I've read the whole thing once, I read small chunks. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't read the interpunction, depending on the text - in this example, I would read the interpunction. But if I don't, then in the second reading I first read the whole sentence, and then break it into smaller parts.

After they've, thus, written the whole thing, chunk by chunk, I read once more the full text and they get to correct if there's anything they wish to correct.

 

And that's it. :D It takes less time, isn't as tiresome since they don't have to memorize anything, and you can do larger text portions at once.

[siloam]

Beth,

 

I just hand my oldest two min-recorders with their dictation on them (for the whole week).

 

But I start dictation in K and do it almost daily thereafter. Can you say huge dictation fan? We are more or less on "use it so you don't loose it" status, KWIM?

 

I also don't overly focus on the memory part. Generally the oldest two can listen to it once and get it right. If they need to rewind and check it and let them. But they are dyslexic and this is the only way to keep from switching words in the sentence.

 

Heather

Edited August 21, 2010 by siloam

[Carla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angie in VA

 

Oh, and I must have ADD, b/c I focus more on what's written on the wall above the stove than what she's saying. Not good! (I'd love to know what it says!)

 

 

Same here. I hesitate to ask her what is says. A Latin phrase perhaps? Bible verse? Hmmmmm...... :)

 

The phrase above the stove is:

"Tis an ill cook that cannot lick his own fingers" -William Shakespeare

 

She answered this question on the Peace Hill Press Channel page in the comments. :)

[Roxy Roller]

I am trying to get my head around the different types of dictation, as well.

 

SWB seems to do it as a means to aid with holding thoughts in your head and hearing/writing good sentences.

 

I tried Spelling Wisdom with my DD a couple of years ago - I used it for both copywork and dictation, but it seemed to move too quickly for her. Spelling Wisdom progresses to full pages of dictation at the end of the series, so I believe it is more a means to develop spelling within the context of good literature, not the memory part.

 

I think SWB's way is great for Grammar-aged kids, and maybe I will switch back to Spelling Wisdom when I want to review more spelling in Logic and Rhetoric.

[Kfamily]

Thank you very much Ester Maria!

 

I attended several Charlotte Mason meetings over the years and one was focused entirely on dictation. We were taught to approach dictation this way:

 

First allow the student time to study a long section from which the dictation will be selected. In advanced students, this may be several pages long. The student is to study the passage taking note of the spelling of any words that they may have difficulty with and any punctuation they want to notice. Then on a seperate day they are given the dictation. The teacher will read this passage one time only. The teacher should read this at a fairly normal speed but should articulate the words carefully. An advanced student would have a passage as long as a page which is chosen from the several pages studied. I think I have this correct. Our CM teacher had each of us adults try this style of dictation to show us how very difficult this really can be. Of course, she threw a long passage at us!:001_smile: I had at one point been consistent enough that dd (now 13-then was 11) could follow this style up to a short paragraph. I always broke the rules a little and read the selection twice. I felt like it was too hard to gather the appropriate pauses for punctuation the first time through. I would read it again with slight emphasis on the pauses (after she had the paragraph down on paper already) to guide her in punctuation. This, of course, was something we were working on at the time. We never made it to the semicolon. I stopped dictation with her (at least for awhile and when we did not consistently at all) and she has lost most of these skills. I plan on bringing us back this year.

[Kuovonne]

I just hand my oldest two min-recorders with their dictation on them (for the whole week).

 

But I start dictation in K and do it almost daily thereafter.

 

This is exactly how I do dictation. Sparkle has done daily dictation since Kindergarten. I now record her dictation on my iPhone and hand it to her. Done.

 

Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't read the interpunction, depending on the text - in this example, I would read the interpunction.

 

Could you please explain more about "reading the interpunctuation?" I want to give Sparkle more interesting dictation passages, but I have trouble finding ones with simple enough punctuation.

[Angie in VA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angie in VA

 

Oh, and I must have ADD, b/c I focus more on what's written on the wall above the stove than what she's saying. Not good! (I'd love to know what it says!)

 

 

 

 

The phrase above the stove is:

"Tis an ill cook that cannot lick his own fingers" -William Shakespeare

 

She answered this question on the Peace Hill Press Channel page in the comments. :)

 

Thank you, Carlita!

[Ester Maria]

Could you please explain more about "reading the interpunctuation?" I want to give Sparkle more interesting dictation passages, but I have trouble finding ones with simple enough punctuation.

Text: "Listen. We have a year to pass together; let us see that we pass it well."

 

EM: "Open quotes: listen, full stop. We have a year to pass together, semicolon, let us see that we pass it well, full stop, close quotes." :)

 

Obviously, I won't read an apostrophe in "they're" or something of the kind which they must know, and I often won't read full stops, but everything which I deem essential to be explicitly said, I do read - especially semicolons, brackets or dashes, since I weren't doing it, many things would be ambiguous (something that's put in brackets can often be written using dashes, etc.).

[OlgaLA]

It's very interesting, both the video and the Charlotte Mason bit.

I always did dictations the same way as Ester Maria.

 

Actually, when I was in school, we did dictations, which were to check our spelling and punctuation skills and later (about middle school age) also narrations, which meant we had to listen to about a page of text twice and then write it down keeping the content close to the original but not word by word.

 

Is there a real need to remember exactly a page of text after hearing it once or twice?

[Kuovonne]

Text: "Listen. We have a year to pass together; let us see that we pass it well."

 

EM: "Open quotes: listen, full stop. We have a year to pass together, semicolon, let us see that we pass it well, full stop, close quotes." :)

 

Ah, thank you. I think I'll try something like this with my daughter.

[Mom0012]

This was kind of shocking for me to watch. It made me think that a) SWB has a ton of patience! and b) maybe my son doesn't have learning disabilities to the degree that I thought he did?

 

My daughter is doing WWE 3 as a 3rd grader and she just whips through it. Sure, sometimes I have to repeat the passage a couple of extra times at the beginning, but then she usually just writes it without any trouble. It just takes her a few minutes. I just put WWE 2 up for sale on this board because I tried using it with my almost-11-year-old son and I found it so frustrating to do with him, I wanted to tear my hair out.

 

Is this a boy/girl thing? Is this Youtube video representative of what most of you experience doing dictation with a 13-year-old boy?

 

Lisa

[Mom-ninja.]

 

Is this a boy/girl thing?

Lisa

 

Yes.Speaking generally of course. There are exceptions. I've been reading quite a bit by Michael Gurian and Michael Thompson. There is a lot of science now saying that the male brain simply is not as verbal/language oriented than female brains.

 

As the mother of three boys it's fascinating for me to read.

[jenn&charles]

Thank you so much for posting that video. It was very reassuring to see her son handle the whole thing very much like my own son. :)

 

Who does this with your middlers? It seems like a long, laborious process for this age? We barely have time for all our subjects -- much less dictation.

 

My son is 12 and I do it with him. I plan on doing it for as long as he needs it.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you soooo much for posting this. I found the video extremely helpful and encouraging. :)

I have done almost no dictation with my 11 year old dd. We just started Trail Guide: POE which has a child her age doing either a paragraph of copywork or dictation (as the student is able.) I have been very hesitant to even try dictation with her because I feared it would go horribly wrong. However, now after seeing SWB and her son, I can see that it would be perfectly ok for her not to pick it up immediately and I might have to repeat it several times and that it is actually OK to do so. This has been an eye opener for me, and gives me the courage to try it. Thanks again!!

[Capt_Uhura]

on and I found it so frustrating to do with him, I wanted to tear my hair out.

 

Is this a boy/girl thing? Is this Youtube video representative of what most of you experience doing dictation with a 13-year-old boy?

 

Lisa

 

Perhaps. My boys might be the exceptions. My 2nd grader is finishing WWE2 and moving into WWE3 and has no issues at all and nearly always gets the passages correct. My 5th grader is finishing WWE3 and moving into WWE4. He went to public school for K-2nd so we've been double timing it w/out any issues. For the longer passages, I might have to read it 3x and it definitely helps if he says the entire passage back to me before he starts to write. Also, for a time when he was having issues remembering the longer passages, I would read the entire passage. THen read the first sentence, have him repeat it to me. Then read the 2nd sentence, have him repeat that one to me, then the final part and have him read the entire passage before starting to write and that helped.

 

I will also begin Julie Bogart of Bravewriter's method of dictation which doesn't depend on memory at all. You read it in chunks, DC is focusing on writing good literature correctly.

[stripe]

What exactly is the point of dictation like this? I was surprised how many times she read the sentence, and it does seem like some things would be hard (or even impossible) to know what the punctuation is in the text. For example, some people put a comma before the last item in a list, while others do not, or a section could have a semi-colon OR be two sentences (although SWB did clearly identify each of the two sentences). I felt like there was so much talking that I got distracted and confused about what was what.

[Kfamily]

I agree with Stripe. So far I prefer either Ester Maria's method, where she tells where and with what mark to punctuate, or the CM method where it is studied beforehand.

[TXMary2]

Thanks for posting the link.

 

If nothing else, I appreciate seeing that SWB and her son are normal. I often pictured her and, by association, her children as . . . I dunno . . . SuperPeople.

 

 

Same here.

[Mom-ninja.]

Thanks for posting the link.

 

If nothing else, I appreciate seeing that SWB and her son are normal. I often pictured her and, by association, her children as . . . I dunno . . . SuperPeople.

 

And I picture SWB snorting with laughter reading this. ;) With a diet coke in her hand. Or was it diet Pepsi?