Why parents hate parenting & WTMers are ahead of the curve

[asta]

Courtesy of the Last Psychiatrist (one of my favorite bloggers) - a deconstruction of New York Magazine's Article "All Joy and No Fun

Why parents hate parenting"

 

A tidbit from his analysis (he's actually a psychiatrist, albeit one with a penchant for boiling everything down to narcissism - which, strangely enough, applies in this case...):

 

It would be a pointless act of euthanasia to criticize the article, except that these popular press articles are more than bathroom reading, they are the template for how to think about these social issues, in the same way that you can't think about Obama without resorting to language implanted by CNN or the New York Times. Try it. It's impossible.

 

These articles offer you the freedom to argue about the conclusions, but trick you into accepting the form of the argument.

 

Here's an example. Passive readers of this article, e.g. everyone on the toilet, will feel the comparative emphasis of the description of the mom and unconsciously assume it is relevant to the thesis. You're going to read "trim brunette" and infer "put together mom" and then you're going to try to figure out why the "put together mom" is having such trouble with the entropy machine her husband gave her. Whatever conclusion you reach, the form of that conclusion will be, "the reason otherwise well put together moms are not happy is..."

 

From which you can derive every other insanity common to such articles, which in this case the writer does explicitly for you anyway:

 

"One hates to invoke Scandinavia in stories about child-rearing, but.. If you are no longer fretting about spending too little time with your children after they're born (because you have a year of paid maternity leave), if you're no longer anxious about finding affordable child care once you go back to work (because the state subsidizes it), if you're no longer wondering how to pay for your children's education and health care (because they're free)--well, it stands to reason that your own mental health would improve."

 

Because, you know, no Scandinavian women ever kill themselves at double the rate of Americans.

 

 

I find it interesting that so many of these articles are coming out in the press lately, and that we here seem to be on the bleeding edge of discussing these same issues. I'm a Last junkie, so I appreciated his analysis. I wonder if the articles are appearing because so many people are out of work and are facing "at homedom" for, literally, the first time in their parenting lives.

 

 

a

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Looks interesting. I'll be back after I have time to read the articles. (Which won't be until tomorrow at the earliest.) Maybe this will bump your post up so others can see it too.:)

[Oakblossoms]

I'm suppose to be getting ready for church. But, I need to subscribe to this thread.

 

My husband and I were just discussing a similar issue the other day.

 

I've never read that blog. It's awesome. I read through a few other recent articles and I'm hooked. It's nice to read about something interesting and thought provoking.

[elise1mds]

I had never heard of the blog, but a mom friend of mine posted the NYM article on our local mom's forum the other day for discussion. My take was simple: Who's to say that being a parent MAKES you depressed? Is it possible that parents already have a more "depressed" outlook on life even before having children? There are many factors at work here that the study can't or doesn't take into account. They don't even mention social networking (not Facebook, but live, in-person social networking) in their study. I can tell you for a fact that when I first had my son, I was a depressed, miserable person because I had NO friends and nobody to talk to about parenting - my mother is NOT a good source for parenting information and my mother-in-law is her own special mess. After I made some good mom friends, though, my entire outlook on parenting and life in general changed for the better. I also have to say that while my life would most certainly be *easier* without kids - I'd have fewer responsibilities, probably a degree or two, a bigger house, etc. - it wouldn't be at all *BETTER.* There's a difference there, too. I have to call into question the entire study because I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that without taking a ton of other factors into consideration.

[simka2]

Love it!!! I love things that make me think!!!! :)

[JenC3]

Great article! My dh and I talk about how children probably ARE the cause of a lot of divorces, people just don't want to admit the stress of it. We are lucky though and I calculate our alone hours as being around 25 rather than 9! Since dh works from home he sees the kids a lot more. We also don't go and do much, if at all, without kids so we put 'em to bed early and hang out. We are big talkers though and dh and I hang out chatting for about 2 hours most mornings while we supervise school work and breakfast. He then goes out to his office at 10 and the kids and I get going through the day. We really make an effort to talk things out or we'd be a mess.

 

I do miss some things about being single/childless, but b/c we started later I feel LESS nostalgic and more able to deal with the dismal at times. Kids are hard, but for me the lack of sleep had been the killer. I feel hopeful as the baby turns 2 and we begin to move out of the infant/toddler phase that I will regain my old energy level which is a great source of happiness for me. I'm one of those people who gets depressed when I'm tired and unable to do everything I want to do.

[DianeW88]

The last paragraph had me laughing out loud! :lol: And, it's so true!! That's for sharing this. I hadn't ever read this blog before but I will now. Good stuff!

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

[Impish]

While reading the article, I began to hear in my head, "Me, me, me, what about ME?!" whine.

 

Children don't have jobs...there's the first problem. A parent's happiness is not their JOB. I can't imagine sitting around whining that my children don't do enough to bring my life happiness.

 

I think ppl have become increasingly self absorbed and entitled. "Whats it do for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??" :glare:

[Annabel Lee]

While reading the article, I began to hear in my head, "Me, me, me, what about ME?!" whine.

 

Children don't have jobs...there's the first problem. A parent's happiness is not their JOB. I can't imagine sitting around whining that my children don't do enough to bring my life happiness.

 

I think ppl have become increasingly self absorbed and entitled. "Whats it do for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??" :glare:

 

What she said. People who have that inner "what about me" whine should go read "Hold On to Your Kids". Parenting is not as simple as a list of dos and don'ts, contrary to what many parenting advice books/articles/etc. boil it down to. Parenting is not administering cognitive behavioral therapy. I've seen young parents scrambling for answers from books, talk shows, workshops, etc. when we have the answer within us. The answer is that it takes decisive love, hard work and willingness to stay consistent with the hard work.

 

It is so much about the bond and everything else, in an ideal, healthy relationship, flows from that. Then the real, priceless payoffs happen.

[Audrey]

While reading the article, I began to hear in my head, "Me, me, me, what about ME?!" whine.

 

Children don't have jobs...there's the first problem. A parent's happiness is not their JOB. I can't imagine sitting around whining that my children don't do enough to bring my life happiness.

 

I think ppl have become increasingly self absorbed and entitled. "Whats it do for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??" :glare:

 

:iagree: And, I know too many women like that. They can't wait for summer to be over and school only just let out 2 weeks ago. They groan about having to spend "whole weekends" with them. They also complain that they don't really know their own kids anymore. Well, what the heck do you expect when they're in school 7 hours a day, then in daycare or aftercare until you get off work (another 2-3 hours), and on top of that, you do everything you can to pass them off on others every evening and weekend with very time-consuming sports programs? How are you supposed to truly know someone you only see for a few waking hours a week?

 

I routinely get asked how I can manage to spend so much time with ds. Or, conversely they comment on how it's good that I work because then I have a break away from my family. I honestly don't "get" people who act like their lives are so inconvenienced by their children. My question remains, "why did you have them? Or, why did you keep having them?"

 

What's worse is that their kids KNOW their parents don't like being around them much. I can't imagine how crappy that must feel. It is truly beyond my sphere of comprehension.

[Rosie_0801]

Kids are hard, but for me the lack of sleep had been the killer. I feel hopeful as the baby turns 2 and we begin to move out of the infant/toddler phase that I will regain my old energy level which is a great source of happiness for me. I'm one of those people who gets depressed when I'm tired and unable to do everything I want to do.

 

:cheers2:

Some days, it's *anything* I want to do. I just love sleep. And food. Feed me and let me sleep and I'll be perfectly happy to change nappies and wash socks.

 

Rosie

[OLG]

.

 

I think ppl have become increasingly self absorbed and entitled.

 

 

absolutely!!

[Gratia271]

While reading the article, I began to hear in my head, "Me, me, me, what about ME?!" whine.

 

Children don't have jobs...there's the first problem. A parent's happiness is not their JOB. I can't imagine sitting around whining that my children don't do enough to bring my life happiness.

 

I think ppl have become increasingly self absorbed and entitled. "Whats it do for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??" :glare:

 

I thought the same thing!

[Farrar]

I think ppl have become increasingly self absorbed and entitled. "Whats it do for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??" :glare:

 

Here we are now. Entertain us.

 

I actually blogged about this the other day as well. I already posted it on another thread somewhere, but I'll be shameless and do it again:

 

http://farrarwilliams.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/is-parenting-joyless/

 

I think all these parents are looking for happiness in all the wrong ways. Not to mention the assumption, as many people rightly pointed out to me, that happiness is the highest goal you can have.

 

I do disagree with the blog the OP pointed to about one thing, which is that policy can't impact happiness. Yes, the basic outlook of these unhappy parents is what has led them to be so stressed and unhappy - that's an outlook (one that a certain sort of middle class society pushes pretty hard) that they chose to buy into. However, the fact that health care can be hard to get and the economy is in the pits and many families need two incomes and many mothers desire to get ahead and not lose their positions because they took maternal leave are all actual stresses that do make life difficult. Yes, the idea that Scandinavia is somehow a parenting mecca jibes with a certain liberal viewpoint about government policy. As homeschoolers, I think most of us aren't yearning to live in Europe (since it's illegal or nearly illegal in many European countries). And I'm not advocating any particular response to those issues. But to dismiss them as if they're not a contributing factor to parental stress is something I don't understand at all. They absolutely are.

 

Another article, just in counterpoint to that, about how policy can affect how people parent (yup, it's about a Scandinavian nation!):

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/world/europe/10iht-sweden.html?_r=1&ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

[lovemyboys]

What she said. People who have that inner "what about me" whine should go read "Hold On to Your Kids". Parenting is not as simple as a list of dos and don'ts, contrary to what many parenting advice books/articles/etc. boil it down to. Parenting is not administering cognitive behavioral therapy. I've seen young parents scrambling for answers from books, talk shows, workshops, etc. when we have the answer within us. The answer is that it takes decisive love, hard work and willingness to stay consistent with the hard work.

 

It is so much about the bond and everything else, in an ideal, healthy relationship, flows from that. Then the real, priceless payoffs happen.

 

Yes. We're not perfect, but we enjoy our time together.

 

:iagree: And, I know too many women like that. They can't wait for summer to be over and school only just let out 2 weeks ago. They groan about having to spend "whole weekends" with them. They also complain that they don't really know their own kids anymore. Well, what the heck do you expect when they're in school 7 hours a day, then in daycare or aftercare until you get off work (another 2-3 hours), and on top of that, you do everything you can to pass them off on others every evening and weekend with very time-consuming sports programs? How are you supposed to truly know someone you only see for a few waking hours a week?

 

I routinely get asked how I can manage to spend so much time with ds. Or, conversely they comment on how it's good that I work because then I have a break away from my family. I honestly don't "get" people who act like their lives are so inconvenienced by their children. My question remains, "why did you have them? Or, why did you keep having them?"

 

What's worse is that their kids KNOW their parents don't like being around them much. I can't imagine how crappy that must feel. It is truly beyond my sphere of comprehension.

 

Isn't it amazing? We even had a couple friend/neighbors who were SAHMs and put their dc in one summer activity camp after another all summer long....maybe one week off for a little vacation with family. So much for a break for the kids.

 

I ask myself the same question, especially with folks who had troubles with fertility or adoption and still spend little time together. Almost like the kids are little trophies.

[weddell]

I've often thought about how many people I know in real like don't seem to like to be around their children. Any chance they get they are passing their kids off to nannies, grandparents, preschools, etc. I'm amazed at the number of hours people will put 2 and 3 year olds in preschool each week to "get a break" from their kids. (My dd is preschool age, so I see that one a lot right now)

 

There is a lot about parenting that I don't find particularly pleasant, but I do it anyway. They are my kids, I like being with them and I want to do what is best for them. So I suck it up and do some of the things I don't enjoy because they are good parenting.

 

I have a 1 year old and know a lot of people with infants. Infants are hard work and they take A LOT of time. I know we all complain sometimes but I have some friends who really complain about the amount of time babies take and are basically asking for tips on how to get to spend less time on childcare. I don't say it, but it's really tempting to just say "that's what parenting is!" Taking good care of children takes time and energy and you just have to except that those years aren't about you anymore.

[asta]

I do disagree with the blog the OP pointed to about one thing, which is that policy can't impact happiness. Yes, the basic outlook of these unhappy parents is what has led them to be so stressed and unhappy - that's an outlook (one that a certain sort of middle class society pushes pretty hard) that they chose to buy into. However, the fact that health care can be hard to get and the economy is in the pits and many families need two incomes and many mothers desire to get ahead and not lose their positions because they took maternal leave are all actual stresses that do make life difficult.

 

We just had an absolutely huge thread on this concept. And it isn't one concept, it is two:

 

1. "needing" two incomes

2. "desiring" to get ahead

 

I won't go into it here, as it was hashed out ad nauseam on the other thread. I think it was this one.

 

Yes, the idea that Scandinavia is somehow a parenting mecca jibes with a certain liberal viewpoint about government policy. As homeschoolers, I think most of us aren't yearning to live in Europe (since it's illegal or nearly illegal in many European countries). And I'm not advocating any particular response to those issues. But to dismiss them as if they're not a contributing factor to parental stress is something I don't understand at all. They absolutely are.

 

I don't think he was dismissing them at all. He pointed out that Scandinavian women had a suicide rate twice that of women in the United States.

 

 

a

[Lizzie in Ma]

May be my new favorite blog, thanks Asta!

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

The blog was great reading. Thanks for the link. :)

[LG Gone Wild]

Courtesy of the Last Psychiatrist (one of my favorite bloggers) - a deconstruction of New York Magazine's Article "All Joy and No Fun

Why parents hate parenting"

 

A tidbit from his analysis (he's actually a psychiatrist, albeit one with a penchant for boiling everything down to narcissism - which, strangely enough, applies in this case...):

 

 

 

 

I find it interesting that so many of these articles are coming out in the press lately, and that we here seem to be on the bleeding edge of discussing these same issues. I'm a Last junkie, so I appreciated his analysis. I wonder if the articles are appearing because so many people are out of work and are facing "at homedom" for, literally, the first time in their parenting lives.

 

 

a

 

 

I am sorry, I just couldn't read the original article that the blog deconstructed. I tried but after a sentence or two in all I "heard" was "blaaahhhh, blaaahhh, blaaaaahhh". People really aren't as insightful and clever as they think they are.

 

My favorite part of the blog was the reference to the nicely decorated bathroom. I like a room well-done, so cute how the woman and baby matched it, like a pair of aesthetically pleasing salt and pepper shakers.

[asta]

I am sorry, I just couldn't read the original article that the blog deconstructed. I tried but after a sentence or two in all I "heard" was "blaaahhhh, blaaahhh, blaaaaahhh". People really aren't as insightful and clever as they think they are.

 

My favorite part of the blog was the reference to the nicely decorated bathroom. I like a room well-done, so cute how the woman and baby matched it, like a pair of aesthetically pleasing salt and pepper shakers.

 

It has been a long week... this totally cracks me up.

 

 

asta

[dangermom]

Ha! And I found that photo of the woman with the baby in the designer bathroom to be kind of creepy and strange.

[lapsetmom]

I personally think the real issue is our society's attitudes toward children and parents. Parents are not respected by society--those who are out working and making money, "getting the job done" etc. are. Just ask numerous women who have been discriminated against in job situations because of motherhood or pregnancy. I have been there. So when people decide to have children, society treats those who make their children priorities as irresponsible or not serious about their career, etc. Rude comments to families with more than 2.3 children are a case in point. I struggle with happiness sometimes (I have going on six children) not because I don't enjoy them, but because I feel so little support and respect for what I do from those around me. If you are a woman dedicating yourself to your family and children, you begin to feel that society doesn't value your skills or intelligence anymore. I'm sure that men and women all over America feel the pressure by their un-family friendly places of employment, childless friends, or kid uncomfortable family that their choice to have children is stupidity. When children are treated merely as a commodity to perfect and trophy around, we put unnecessary work and pressure on ourselves, but when we begin to see them as a lot of fun and joy, that's what they become. Pardon my soapbox all! :001_smile:

Edited July 17, 2010 by lapsetmom
grammar

[Impish]

I personally think the real issue is our society's attitudes toward children and parents. Parents are not respected by society--those who are out working and making money, "getting the job done" etc. are. Just ask numerous women who have been discriminated against in job situations because of motherhood or pregnancy. I have been there. So when people decide to have children, society treats those who make their children priorities as irresponsible or not serious about their career, etc. Rude comments to families with more than 2.3 children are a case in point. I struggle with happiness sometimes (I have going on six children) not because I don't enjoy them, but because I feel so little support and respect for what I do from those around me. If you are a woman dedicating yourself to your family and children, you begin to feel that society doesn't value your skills or intelligence anymore. I'm sure that men and women all over America feel the pressure by their un-family friendly places of employment, childless friends, or kid uncomfortable family that their choice to have children is stupidity. When children are treated merely as a commodity to perfect and trophy around, we put unnecessary work and pressure on ourselves, but when we begin to see them as a lot of fun and joy, that's what they become. Pardon my soapbox all! :001_smile:

:iagree:'Family' packages are a case in point. Anything more than a family of 4 isn't accommodated without extra $$$. Who decided that a 'family' is to be 4 ppl?!