For those of you with PG and globally-gifted kids...

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

... did you KNOW or have an idea about the level of their giftedness before you had them tested? Or were you blown away when you got the results?

 

I'm on a waiting list to get my 6yo daughter tested in a couple months. I have known she was gifted since she was an infant because she hit ALL of her milestones early. Verbal AND physical. She knew her colors early, drew early, wrote letters early, taught herself to read, etc. I think a lot of the issues we have with her stubbornness are related to her giftedness, and I want to know which "level" of giftedness she is at so that I can then try to figure out what it is she needs to grow to be a well-adjusted adolescent and adult.

 

Currently I am reading two different books on giftedness and the more I read, the more I am amazed with her ability. She struggles with math on paper, but is doing 2nd-grade math. However, her ability to come up with math concepts in her head is amazing. Her reading level is high, but I've not had her tested. I think she is reading at a 3rd-to-4th-grade level for fiction, but will read just about any nonfiction book about animals that she can get her hands on. She has always seemed very scientific-minded to me. (She used to want to be a paleontologist when she was 4, but now wants to own a restaurant.) She is also very artistic, and from what I'm reading, her drawings and paintings are advanced for her age. Also, when she was around 4, I had showed her on the keyboard how to play the first few lines of Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. I think I maybe spent 5 minutes with her. The next morning she sat down and played it. Unfortunately, this never went any further, so I'm not sure how musically gifted she might be.

 

Anyway, I'm continuously being amazed by the way her mind works and struggling to keep up with what she is learning. For the most part, she teaches herself, and hates curriculum where I have to actually show her something. She is definitely globally gifted, with a very natural knack for language arts. (She is flying through 2nd-grade GWG with absolutely no help from me, unless she wants me to write the answers in her book for her. I probably should have just gotten the 3rd grade one, but there were "new concepts" in 2nd grade that we had not covered. A simple review would have been sufficient.)

 

Anyway, I'm just wondering how many people were not surprised and how many were when they got their children's tests back.

 

(Thanks for listening to my ramble!) :D:D:D

[Dmmetler]

Yes and no. I knew something was up, and figured she was gifted, but at the time I had her tested originally, I was thinking aspergers more than "PG with a lot of overexcitabilities". It wasn't until I was told that she was literally too high of a level to test at age 2 and that she was possibly PG that I started to do the research and realize that it fit.

 

By age 4, when she was tested again for the ps system and hit the top of some of their ACHIEVEMENT tests in many areas, I was pretty aware that she was PG, but I wasn't expecting scores ranging from 3.0 to 12.9 from a child who was being tested for possible early K entry. Neither were they, to say the least.

 

We still don't have a solid IQ score, and I'd be interested in seeing how she does, but not enough to pay for it. We'll wait until she qualifies for a re-eval through the public school system and see what happens then. I think they do a full WISC in 2nd grade.

[EKS]

I was surprised and not surprised (this would be with my younger son, the older one is a whole different story). The overall number (GAI) was right on. But what blew me away was that the non-verbal index (PRI) was a full standard deviation higher than the verbal index (VCI). I was convinced that it would be the reverse. I was also surprised that he did as well as he did in the working memory portion. The psychologist (who specializes in testing gifted kids, among other things) said she had never had a kid perform that well on those two subtests. And finally, I was a bit surprised that his processing speed score was dead average, because he seems pretty quick to me. In fact, his processing speed score was identical to my older son's, and he actually has speed issues. The psychologist didn't report a FSIQ because of the processing speed score.

[Storm Bay]

Although we've never had an IQ test done, my eldest had two tests when in K in ps. What was significant to me was that on the rigid test she scored all over the place because when she got bored or thought the questions were stupid, she wouldn't give the correct answer. However, on the other test which was open, she blew the tester away. Since she is not a motivated student, I'm glad I don't know her IQ, because I suspect I'd be a lot more frustrated with her based on the types of IQs common in my family (but we got percentiles, not numbers; I do know that my uncle is pg/genius, but I doubt that he's the only one.)

 

 

Globally gifted is common in my family, too.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Karin

[Geek]

I'm not testing mine. My parents put me through that starting at age 3 and it never did me any good.

[catz]

I had no idea. My child took a GT screener at Kindergarten and within months of that jumped 5 grade levels in reading. He could do lego sets for 8 to 10 year olds at age 4 and 5 and seemed conceptually like he understood math well ahead of grade level. He was an intense, energetic, and extremely verbal preschooler. But I can only now say this hind sight! He hit the ceiling of the kindergarten screening test. He was miserable in school, but we didn't get our acts together to homeschool until he finished 1st grade. We did zero academics before kindergarten. He went to a play based preschool.

 

I have not done full scale testing either. I can't justify it for my kids while homeschooling. If we needed it to have a school fit, it might be different. And it's extremely expensive locally.

 

But we are required to do Achievement testing yearly. That has verified he is PG range achievement wise. My daughter is also tracking similarly, but she's had no testing yet.

[TCB]

I wouldn't worry too much about numbers. I think it's sometimes hard to get accurate numbers on young children.

My opinion is that you need to be concerned with keeping your child interested and challenged. I think that is much more easily done when homeschooling. We started homeschooling because my oldest dd was not being challenged at school. I can honestly say that the giftednest worries that troubled me then are just not really an issue now. We just go at her pace and challenge her when necessary and don't have to worry about grade levels etc.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I am more interested in testing her just to make sure that I am challenging her. Right now I do not feel that is the case, and I would like to know just what the limits of her mind are. Math is about the only subject where I feel she is being challenged. Finally. I understand that achievement testing is probably the way to go on this, rather than IQ testing, but that will be my next hurdle. (We just found some income-based testing through a local university.)

 

Every time I think I have reached the level where she is at, she surpasses it and then we are left using curriculum that is unchallenging and useless. And I honestly cannot afford to purchase anything new for her, as I usually have to save up for a while before purchasing new things for school anyway. I have finally learned (and accepted) that she learns best on her own. I try to provide her with mostly materials that can be completed on her own. Whenever I try to "teach" her something, she shuts down. So, we rely mostly on things that can be read and then filled out. I am mostly involved when she doesn't understand what is being asked of her.

 

I am also concerned because I know that with higher levels of giftedness there are special concerns regarding behavior. I am hoping that by having some insight into how her brain is wired, I can come up with some more efficient parenting strategies. :D

[EKS]

 

Every time I think I have reached the level where she is at, she surpasses it and then we are left using curriculum that is unchallenging and useless.

 

I had this problem constantly when my son was between the ages of 5-7. It seems to have been getting better in the past year, perhaps because I've gotten better at picking curriculum for him combined with the fact that we've filled all of the holes that I was worried about previously.

 

I've found that using materials that add depth (or adding depth myself) combined with using materials at least two grades higher than age works here. Singapore math has been excellent, as have the MCT language arts materials. Next year for science we will be using materials that are 3+ years ahead of age and I think that will be ok for the next two years. For history, my son enjoys SOTW, so that's pretty much on grade level, and we combine it with middle school level supplemental reading. Another great thing for my son has been learning Latin this year. He has found it to be a bit challenging but mostly fun. He has requested to add German next year, so we will probably do that.

 

I don't think my son is PG, though test score wise he does qualify for Davidson. I anticipate that we will be adding in high school level math and science when he is 10 or so, though he may start algebra at 9.

 

One thing I found helpful when I was going through what you're experiencing (I was particularly having trouble with language arts at the time), was to give him the placement for K12's LA program. He was in K and he placed in to their 2nd grade course. I ordered it and used it (all strands) for about 5 months. It was very clear to me after that where he was academically in the different subjects. Grammar and reading at that level were too easy, spelling was just right, and writing was a challenge. I used this knowledge to place him in other LA materials the next year and the placement was fairly right on. I couldn't have gotten this information from an achievement test.

 

I hope something in here helps. It should get easier as time goes on.

[HeidiD]

I am more interested in testing her just to make sure that I am challenging her. Right now I do not feel that is the case, and I would like to know just what the limits of her mind are. Math is about the only subject where I feel she is being challenged. Finally. I understand that achievement testing is probably the way to go on this, rather than IQ testing, but that will be my next hurdle. (We just found some income-based testing through a local university.)

 

Every time I think I have reached the level where she is at, she surpasses it and then we are left using curriculum that is unchallenging and useless. And I honestly cannot afford to purchase anything new for her, as I usually have to save up for a while before purchasing new things for school anyway. I have finally learned (and accepted) that she learns best on her own. I try to provide her with mostly materials that can be completed on her own. Whenever I try to "teach" her something, she shuts down. So, we rely mostly on things that can be read and then filled out. I am mostly involved when she doesn't understand what is being asked of her.

 

I am also concerned because I know that with higher levels of giftedness there are special concerns regarding behavior. I am hoping that by having some insight into how her brain is wired, I can come up with some more efficient parenting strategies. :D

 

Did you know you can administer the California Achievement Test at home? Seton Home Study School and Kolbe Academy both provide testing services (the version Kolbe offers is more extensive). It costs only $25 for Seton, and I think Kolbe might be $50. My children take this test at the end of each school year. You can order a test at any level you think might be a good match. I generally don't use the results to decide on curriculum, though - it's more to give them test-taking experience. Like you, I became frustrated with the collection of unused or partially completed materials that piled up. They would look promising when I purchased them, but quickly become "busy work" because my children would vacuum up the material at a rapid pace and be ready for something else. But the achievement test results are only a snapshot in time, and if a child doesn't learn in an incremental, linear fashion at a standard pace, the results aren't always useful for choosing materials. Ditto IQ testing, because, once again, there's so much more involved in learning - people don't always perform to their "mental limits". I think the information is useful to have (some of my children have been tested). In many (probably most) cases, day-to-day parental observation is equally useful.

 

One solution when children are blasting through all the curricula you buy is to have them do a lot of their learning via reading books from the library, rather than buying program after program. My eldest is in college now and aside from math, he really didn't use much in the way of textbooks or programs until he was in high school. Basically, I just piled the house with books and he gobbled them up. Simple but effective. I know that some kids need more structure or they wouldn't do any work (some of those in my house, also) but generally if they feel they have some control over their assignments, they tend to be more cooperative. So I try to strike a balance - some judiciously chosen programs (that may or may not be a flop:tongue_smilie:) and a lot of reading on the side, including many books encompassing their particular interests. I've gotten tons of great suggestions from this board and from the WTM book re curricula for younger kids that I didn't know about before. A publisher that I learned about here and really like is Prufrock Press - you might want to check it out.

 

I share your concerns re psychological issues, particularly the intensity that often goes hand-in-hand with giftedness. I strive to help my children develop a balance between mind, body and spirit (as well as a strong work ethic, because sooner or later, we all reach our intellectual limit). There's so much more to life than academics - hobbies and interests and friendships help provide that balance. But there's only so much you can do (I grew up in a family of people like this, and my father, despite his many interests, was the poster boy for INTENSE). My 7 yo is so much like him (even walks exactly like him, haha!) so there's no escaping genetics. I haven't had him tested, but it's clear he's very extreme. Because of previous experience, I'm planning more of a reading-based curriculum than a structured, packaged approach.

 

I hope this helps and reassures you. You really can let kids like this teach themselves to a large degree (often it's actually better that way) and they will end up doing very well. :)

[zaichiki]

One thing I found helpful when I was going through what you're experiencing (I was particularly having trouble with language arts at the time), was to give him the placement for K12's LA program. He was in K and he placed in to their 2nd grade course. I ordered it and used it (all strands) for about 5 months. It was very clear to me after that where he was academically in the different subjects. Grammar and reading at that level were too easy, spelling was just right, and writing was a challenge. I used this knowledge to place him in other LA materials the next year and the placement was fairly right on. I couldn't have gotten this information from an achievement test.

 

Did you mean that you couldn't have gotten info about instructional level from an achievement test? Or that you couldn't know the instructional level of that particular LA program?

[JennW in SoCal]

 

One solution when children are blasting through all the curricula you buy is to have them do a lot of their learning via reading books from the library, rather than buying program after program. My eldest is in college now and aside from math, he really didn't use much in the way of textbooks or programs until he was in high school. Basically, I just piled the house with books and he gobbled them up. Simple but effective. I know that some kids need more structure or they wouldn't do any work (some of those in my house, also) but generally if they feel they have some control over their assignments, they tend to be more cooperative. So I try to strike a balance - some judiciously chosen programs (that may or may not be a flop:tongue_smilie:) and a lot of reading on the side, including many books encompassing their particular interests. I've gotten tons of great suggestions from this board and from the WTM book re curricula for younger kids that I didn't know about before. A publisher that I learned about here and really like is Prufrock Press - you might want to check it out.

 

:iagree:

 

The only text books and curricula we had around here for years was for math. I'd pick up the odd handwriting workbook, but copy work, dictation, even diagramming sentences all came from books we were reading. Everything else, history, science, art, and literature, came from the stacks of library books we brought home every few weeks. Even high school is mostly through literature and non-fiction, except for the science text book and Traditional Logic workbooks.

 

I understand the need to have an outside expert opinion, but ultimately you know best if your child is engaged and learning.

 

By the way, MCT grammar materials are terrific and inexpensive, and Prufrock Press is a wonderful source for other types of workbooks.

[catz]

:iagree: The only 2 curriculum we use around here with any consistency is math and MCT. And even those we jump from on occasion too. We pull from the library and do as many hands on field trips and outings as we can. I don't get too hung up on curriculum. As long as they do some reading, some writing (or LA), and some math most days and 1-2 times a week exposure to history and science I check it off the list. Anything else is gravy. I've found my kids are still wildly ahead of grade level even with this very laid back approach. I have SOTW, but we certainly don't use it as intended. We're moving very slow and jump off the train all the time.

 

One thing that has worked well is to give them whatever input they were ready for - be that higher level books, etc. But not necessarily require that jr. high or high school level output that would make it painful for a GT child. The writing and organizational pieces will come. I'm in no hurry. I've found that typical curriculum don't work for my kids at all.

[EKS]

Did you mean that you couldn't have gotten info about instructional level from an achievement test? Or that you couldn't know the instructional level of that particular LA program?

 

I couldn't have gotten the instructional level with any real understanding from an achievement test.

 

ETA: I generally base placement/curriculum decisions what I'm seeing day to day and then only use achievement test results to support those decisions. For example, when I was stewing about whether to put my older son into algebra I in 5th grade, his crazy high WJ-III math score helped put an end to my stewing.

Edited July 10, 2010 by EKS

[Crimson Wife]

I don't think my son is PG, though test score wise he does qualify for Davidson

 

:iagree:

When I read about Deborah Ruf's "levels of giftedness" my DD strikes me as being Level 4 gifted. She's very bright but I know a number of folks who are at a way higher level than her. These people did/are doing college level coursework before they were/are 10. My DD isn't like that.

 

What I find odd is that her IQ tested almost exactly the same at my DH's and mine but while that score was only considered HG range 25ish years ago, it is now considered PG :confused:

[cylau]

What I find odd is that her IQ tested almost exactly the same at my DH's and mine but while that score was only considered HG range 25ish years ago, it is now considered PG :confused:

 

Twenty-five years ago, you were probably tested using a different test with a different scoring system. Now we have WISC IV, which tops out at 160.

 

DS8 was tested more than a year ago. We have always known that he is bright. He was always the highest in class. The next student after him was working at a few grades lower than him. When he was in first grade, the teacher did nothing to accommodate and the school refused to accelerate. So we took him to a psychologist to test. Was it a surprise? Yes and no. We knew something was up, but didn't expect him to be that high. We were panicking for a while, but realized that we were literally hitting a wall with the public school system, so we had to homeschool him last year.

[zaichiki]

when I was stewing about whether to put my older son into algebra I in 5th grade, his crazy high WJ-III math score helped put an end to my stewing.

 

:lol:

Gotcha.

[zaichiki]

Twenty-five years ago, you were probably tested using a different test with a different scoring system. Now we have WISC IV, which tops out at 160.

 

Additionally, the WISC IV wasn't meant to test kids at either end of the bell curve. It gives very little reliable info once you're out at 3 standard deviations. Many would suggest further testing with the Stanford Binet LM or somesuch to determine specific level of giftedness.

 

ETA: We did testing with oldest, but due to subtest scatter the results called out for further testing (which we didn't do). So, we know "gifted" but don't have a LOG label. If we can determine LOG by "pain in the $%" (oh, I mean intensity level --grin) he's gotta be PG! ROFLOL! (Kidding! I adore my oldest. Truly!)

Edited July 10, 2010 by zaichiki

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

 

ETA: We did testing with oldest, but due to subtest scatter the results called out for further testing (which we didn't do). So, we know "gifted" but don't have a LOG label. If we can determine LOG by "pain in the $%" (oh, I mean intensity level --grin) he's gotta be PG! ROFLOL! (Kidding! I adore my oldest. Truly!)

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

This is what I'm concerned about, too. We are starting to have a lot of behavioral issues, and I think they stem from the fact that we're not quite sure what the best discipline is for her. If we try to take something away from her (consequence-based discipline) then she says something like, "Well, I didn't want to play with that any more anyway." And she will stick to her guns. Even though you can kind of tell it bothers her, she will try her hardest not to let on. She is too rational and too stubborn to let us get away with proper parenting. (If that makes sense.) She does not behave like what I would expect a typical 6yo to behave.

[zaichiki]

None of my kids are PG, but my oldest is insanely intense. It is exhausting.

 

I'm really glad we did the testing to determine giftedness when ds was younger. Seriously. I'm sure I would have thought something was *wrong* with him if I didn't have that label to show me that he was just made differently. In our case it is the intensity, that comes with the giftedness, that is the most challenging. (He gets both from his father. :D I love them both very much, but they can be intense. Did I say my oldest is intense?)

[cylau]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

This is what I'm concerned about, too. We are starting to have a lot of behavioral issues, and I think they stem from the fact that we're not quite sure what the best discipline is for her. If we try to take something away from her (consequence-based discipline) then she says something like, "Well, I didn't want to play with that any more anyway." And she will stick to her guns. Even though you can kind of tell it bothers her, she will try her hardest not to let on. She is too rational and too stubborn to let us get away with proper parenting. (If that makes sense.) She does not behave like what I would expect a typical 6yo to behave.

 

DS8 was difficult, he still is. He is definitely not a typical child. He was like your daughter a few years ago. He may not express verbally that he "didn't want to play with that any more", but he would walk away and never look at the toy that was taken away again, as if he didn't care. We had to find ways to "break" him. He is also intense emotionally. He used to get really mad and not know how to control his emotion. It took him 2 years to learn to express himself and control his emotion better. Homeschooling was the best thing for him because I can take time to correct his behavior and hopefully to change him for the better.

 

I had met with other pg kids. Some of them are emotionally intense, very talkative (eg. when you ask him a question, he asks you a million questions back without answering your question), have discipline problem etc. They are a lot of work.

 

You are welcome to PM me offline. When your scores is out and you need some help, let me know.

 

PS. I re-read all your post. My son was developed the same way. You would find this kind of kids jump a few grades every few months, then level off, and jump again when it's time. My son did WISC IV and Woodcock Johnson achievement test last year. The results gave me the courage to think outside the box and try out all different kinds of curriculum with him, regardless of age. For example, I did Algebra with him last year until he couldn't advance anymore or got frustrated. And I am going to do a middle geometry unit with him this coming year. I also do unit studies with him that students in normal public schools would not learn, eg. I would teach him how to work a Chinese abacus, teach him different number systems etc. I mean, if she can learn fast, you need to find ways to make your curriculum "broader and deeper". Don't be afraid to try, because there is really nothing to lose with this kind of kids.

Edited July 11, 2010 by cylau

[Storm Bay]

If you go with the CAT 5 tests, the way to find out your dc's level is to take each grade test until your dc scores 50th percentile over all or in a subject. That's where they could be working. The tests that say 99th percentile & give a grade level simply mean an average child in that grade would make that score. My dd's have done a few of them to send in to the school board at the end of the year, but since I simply gave them the tests at their registered grade, they merely showed that they were at the top level of their age peers and said nothing about where they could actually be working.

 

Two other things, though:

1. if your dc are young, giving them work at their ability level may not be fun anymore & it may turn them off (just because you have an hg or pg dc doesn't mean they want to work that hard when they're little). For better or for worse, not all pg & hg dc are high achievers.

 

2. Your dc may not do as well on the test as possible because they just don't like the test.

[nitascool]

... did you KNOW or have an idea about the level of their giftedness before you had them tested? Or were you blown away when you got the results? :D:D:D

 

Again a yes and no answer... The first time we tested my oldest was when we wanted to send him to a government sponsored preschool, so we had to have him take the Kindergarten Readiness Exam. The test that he took actually ranged in skills from K4 to 6th grade level materials. He scored between 3rd and 6th grade maxing out two of the sub-tests. He was 3 at the time. I had no idea at that point that he was advanced in any way. We really thought that all those kid labels on toys were just a manufacturing joke. :lol:

 

We had ds do the ITBS in 1st grade in which he missed two or three problems total (all in math). But was a pain in the administrators behind... she asked if he had developmental issues (which we thought was odd but didn't give much thought to).

 

We had both of our older children tested 2 years ago because we knew that there was something "wrong" with them and our insurance insisted this was were we had to begin. They did not want to pay for the more expensive LD testing.

 

My oldest was not learning at evenly spaced intervals and was calling himself all kinds of awful names because he couldn't remember from one day to the next what 1+2 was but could multiply three digit numbers and read on a jr. high school level. He could not see his strengths, only his weaknesses.

 

My second was tested because he couldn't sit still for more then a couple of minutes, cried at loud (like a dog barking a block away) noises, couldn't write his name if his life depended on it and a hundred other little oddities.

 

They each took the WISC IV and Woodcock Johnson from two different psychologists.

 

My oldest's math sub-score was in 46% (somewhere around there) the rest of his scores were in the 96-99%. That really surprised us. But the info that we gleaned from the scores helped the psychologist point us in the right direction for his weak area. His psychologist made sure to point out to us that even though he was underachieving in math he would be at the top of his class in ps. He tested HG (on the cusp of PG). Had his math scores been higher... so we were unable to get further testing for him... fortunately we were able to find a math program that has really worked for him. When we compared "Ruf Estimates of Levels of Giftedness" (which his psychologist suggested) my oldest fits best into "Level Four Gifted Summary".

 

He'll be taking the WISC IV again this year or next... not sure yet. His psychologist told us to expect that his FSIQ will have raised significantly since we have alleviated his major stressor and implemented some other learning techniques as well.

 

When we tested my second ds he scored in the 70% range... meaning he was mentally handicapped. This was a real shock to us considering that he was reading at age 2 and doing advanced math in his head around the same time. We expected similar scores, at least withing a standard deviation, to his brother. But because his score was so very low we were able to get further testing for him. Most of his issues were sensory and motor and some visual/spacial. Of course, his scores are highly suspect considering all the sensory issues that he had and his high functioning skills.

 

His Kindergarten Readiness Exam put him functioning as an average 8.6 child at the age of 5.2. When we compared "Ruf Estimates of Levels of Giftedness" My second fits best into "Level Three Gifted Summary". He will be tested again this year or next, as well. We expect that his scores will show his true intellect (or at least closer to) since many of his sensory issues have been addressed.

 

For us I don't know if it was so much the test scores themselves that were important to us, but more of a step in the process of finding the right balances for my boys. We learned that we could push my oldest a little more then we were and, in fact, that was what he wanted and needed We learned that my second son's issues weren't all in my head as my MIL suggested.:lol:

[Catherine]

But my oldest is very intense, has always seemed older than he is, and also has some learning issues that have kept him from surging further ahead than he is. But yes, when his first word (uttered when he was 20 months old) was "baseball player" I knew something was out of the ordinary-LOL.

[asta]

Additionally, the WISC IV wasn't meant to test kids at either end of the bell curve. It gives very little reliable info once you're out at 3 standard deviations. Many would suggest further testing with the Stanford Binet LM or somesuch to determine specific level of giftedness.

 

ETA: We did testing with oldest, but due to subtest scatter the results called out for further testing (which we didn't do). So, we know "gifted" but don't have a LOG label. If we can determine LOG by "pain in the $%" (oh, I mean intensity level --grin) he's gotta be PG! ROFLOL! (Kidding! I adore my oldest. Truly!)

 

Or anything else weird, really.

 

I had kid tested solely because we were coming from a schooling system in a foreign country and didn't have the required "standardized testing" that the local public school wanted to put him in their cheesy honors program (kid was bored out of his skull in the regular classroom). And, I had no resource to get kid said standardized testing.

 

Well... guess what? When you have a kid who is on the spectrum, who taught themselves to read and write in their mother tongue, then, within a year, learned to operate/speak socially in a foreign language, then learned to read and write scholastically in another foreign language within a year... tossing them back into school in their mother tongue and putting them in with a child psychologist for a WISC-III for half a day gives you some really weird results. (I never believed in the effect culture had on testing until this)

 

Is he out there swinging score wise? Oh yeah. But I still wish we'd never done it. It didn't help one whit with how to teach him, and I already knew he was flipping brilliant. It didn't help with addressing the behavior issues that come along with it, or the whole "PG here, but G there, but regular there" bit - which I think is the most challenging, as it is too easy to fall into the "but _____ is so easy for you, certainly you can do ______" trap without even noticing you're doing it.

 

And I don't even want to "go there" with the "well my kid's IQ is ___, what is your kid's IQ?" bit. I swear, it's like asking a woman her weight. :001_huh:

 

 

a

[KC in KS]

Additionally, the WISC IV wasn't meant to test kids at either end of the bell curve. It gives very little reliable info once you're out at 3 standard deviations.

 

That's apparently what happened to me. I was tested as a kid, and my mom always refused to tell me my IQ. She said the psychologist called it "so high as to be statistically inaccurate".

 

To this day I wish I had that number! Dunno why... self-validation? (I'm a classic gifted kid who melted into the average... lots of self-doubt now that I'm an adult. That's another thread, though.)

[FaithManor]

When Ds completed a 200 piece puzzle at the age of 18 months, the bells began going off in our heads. Though, we actually thought until the age of four that he was autistic. He isn't but at the time every pediatrician we saw was absolutely convinced of aspbergers because of his obsession with puzzles and engineering but completely delayed speech. He went from ten words at the age of three to paragraphs about astronomy and just about literally overnight.

 

We were never interested in testing ds but eventually felt a little backed against a wall when a pediatrician threatened to turn us in to CPS for neglect because he was convinced that ds was autistic/special needs and we were refusing absolutely necessary assistance. He was tested, the ped had to pick his own jaw up off the floor, and then we fired the pediatrician. Ds did well for the testing but we found a psychologist that was just awesome with children. DS was nervous so he let me hold him on the lap while he administered the test. This calmed him down and the whole thing was far less fuss than I had imagined.

 

As long as you know and understand your child's strengths and weaknesses, it isn't important to test unless there is some sort of value in doing so, i.e. admission to special programs that you deem beneficial, etc.

 

Faith

[Amy in KS]

I took the WISC and was in gifted services when I was a child. Please consider not only your child's achievement level, but also their MATURITY and SENSITIVITY level. Gifted kids are often very aware and sensitive to social issues and being different. They also stay up at night worried about the homeless child in their book and feel that the world isn't safe.

 

Just because they may be able to do calculus in 3rd grade, doesn't mean they SHOULD. A pushed gifted kid often feels inadequate and a failure if they can't comprehend something. Teach them that it's o.k. to fail. Teach them other good parts about themselves so they aren't just defined by their intelligence. My first B in college was DEVASTATING!

 

Tune into their interests and develop self-teaching skills. Gifted kids are very good at this!

 

Please don't just place your child in a language arts far above their age level. You can teach her some higher level skills if you think she would benefit from them, but don't make her do a 6th grade language arts.

 

My daughter was reading at a 6th grade level BEFORE K. It didn't mean she was ready for 6th grade books. That is just fine! She LOVED Boxcar Children and read around 70 of them before the end of K. She read tons of Magic Treehouse. They were not challenging for her, but she learned TONS of history from them.

 

I try to meet her at her level and consider her age and sensitivity. It's tricky, but it can be done.

 

Don't base all of your decisions on the scores. Look at your child. She'll never be that young again. Don't leave out the picture books and other fun young elementary activities. She'll remember them (and you reading them to her) even if they don't challenge her.

[asta]

I took the WISC and was in gifted services when I was a child. Please consider not only your child's achievement level, but also their MATURITY and SENSITIVITY level. Gifted kids are often very aware and sensitive to social issues and being different. They also stay up at night worried about the homeless child in their book and feel that the world isn't safe.

 

Just because they may be able to do calculus in 3rd grade, doesn't mean they SHOULD. A pushed gifted kid often feels inadequate and a failure if they can't comprehend something. Teach them that it's o.k. to fail. Teach them other good parts about themselves so they aren't just defined by their intelligence. My first B in college was DEVASTATING!

 

Tune into their interests and develop self-teaching skills. Gifted kids are very good at this!

 

Please don't just place your child in a language arts far above their age level. You can teach her some higher level skills if you think she would benefit from them, but don't make her do a 6th grade language arts.

 

My daughter was reading at a 6th grade level BEFORE K. It didn't mean she was ready for 6th grade books. That is just fine! She LOVED Boxcar Children and read around 70 of them before the end of K. She read tons of Magic Treehouse. They were not challenging for her, but she learned TONS of history from them.

 

I try to meet her at her level and consider her age and sensitivity. It's tricky, but it can be done.

 

Don't base all of your decisions on the scores. Look at your child. She'll never be that young again. Don't leave out the picture books and other fun young elementary activities. She'll remember them (and you reading them to her) even if they don't challenge her.

 

Thank you so much for writing this.

 

I grew up the same way and feel the same way about educating my kid.

 

 

asta

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

I was actually quite surprised by them. It turns out that she didn't reach the "gifted" range on the WISC-IV (126), but she did outstanding on the WIAT-III.

 

Here is how she turned out:

Reading comprehension: 114 (99.7th percentile; grade equivalent >12.9)

Oral Reading Fluency: 135 (99th; 5.4)

Numerical Operations: 132 (98th; 3.2)

Math Fluency-Addition: 108 (70th; 2)

Math Fluency-Subtraction: 128 (97th; 3.2)

Spelling: 135 (99th; 4.2)

Sentence Composition: 133 (99th; 4.7)

Listening Comprehension: 111 (77th; 2.7)

 

(She did not complete the entire WIAT, but these were the areas I was most interested in finding out about.)

 

On the WISC, we learned that she did exceptionally well on matrix reasoning.

 

Overall, we learned that she basically needs to work on her listening skills and learn how to work through challenges instead of just giving up when she reaches a new level. I am confident that the reason she didn't score higher on the WISC is because she refused to guess when she didn't know an answer to something. When the tester tried to urge her to do so, she was quoted as saying, "If I say no once, I am going to say no always." :lol::lol::lol:

 

During the last two sessions, the tester discovered that a timer works really well for her. She would tell her they were going to work for 10 minutes and then take a break. My daughter would then watch the clock and be really cooperative during those 10 minutes.

 

The tester, who agrees that she shows quite a few of the characteristics of giftedness, also recommended some books to me, one of which is about dealing with the emotions of gifted students.

 

I am really glad we had the testing done. Most of it confirmed things I already knew, which is what I was looking for, but we learned a couple of things that surprised us as well. Now I feel better armed and know that I can bump a couple things up a notch, since boredom really is her reason for losing interest in them, i.e. the 2nd-grade grammar we're doing right now.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input!

[Crimson Wife]

If she wasn't particularly co-operative, I'd say the IQ score is a "floor" rather than a "ceiling". Same thing happened with my DS when he took the WPPSI at 3 1/2 as part of the IEP assessment for his then-speech delay. The psychologist didn't even finish the testing because she'd gotten the info she needed (that the delay wasn't due to overall low IQ).

 

I'm planning to wait until DS is 7 to have him re-tested because I'm concerned about his compliance.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

:iagree:

 

She did recommend that we retest her in two years, so I will plan on that. Maybe our financial situation will be such that we can go to someone who specializes in gifted, but even if we can't, I really think they did a nice job at the university psychology dept. where we went. I have an 11-page write-up, 7-1/2 of which are written and the rest are the numbered results. I have quite a detailed picture of how my daughter operates.

[Cera]

I knew something was up but I didn't fully expect the results we got. We chose to test because of behavior issues that we just couldn't figure out. I pulled our 5 year old daughter halfway through a sports day camp to go meet the tester (didn't want to make it a big deal and didn't want her to miss out on camp for something that wasn't important to her). After less than an hour she was done having refused to answer any more questions in each section as she got sick of it. She was <99% in every aspect except writing at that point so there was really no point in continuing anyway. I would like to know just how high she truly scores so I can tailor curriculum even better but it did give me some information I needed to handle her behavior and tailor her work. She will be tested again this year starting further into the test so that she can progress farther before getting bored.

[cjzimmer1]

I was actually quite surprised by them. It turns out that she didn't reach the "gifted" range on the WISC-IV (126), but she did outstanding on the WIAT-III.

 

Here is how she turned out:

Reading comprehension: 114 (99.7th percentile; grade equivalent >12.9)

Oral Reading Fluency: 135 (99th; 5.4)

Numerical Operations: 132 (98th; 3.2)

Math Fluency-Addition: 108 (70th; 2)

Math Fluency-Subtraction: 128 (97th; 3.2)

Spelling: 135 (99th; 4.2)

Sentence Composition: 133 (99th; 4.7)

Listening Comprehension: 111 (77th; 2.7)

 

(She did not complete the entire WIAT, but these were the areas I was most interested in finding out about.)

 

On the WISC, we learned that she did exceptionally well on matrix reasoning.

 

Overall, we learned that she basically needs to work on her listening skills and learn how to work through challenges instead of just giving up when she reaches a new level. I am confident that the reason she didn't score higher on the WISC is because she refused to guess when she didn't know an answer to something. When the tester tried to urge her to do so, she was quoted as saying, "If I say no once, I am going to say no always." :lol::lol::lol:

 

During the last two sessions, the tester discovered that a timer works really well for her. She would tell her they were going to work for 10 minutes and then take a break. My daughter would then watch the clock and be really cooperative during those 10 minutes.

 

The tester, who agrees that she shows quite a few of the characteristics of giftedness, also recommended some books to me, one of which is about dealing with the emotions of gifted students.

 

I am really glad we had the testing done. Most of it confirmed things I already knew, which is what I was looking for, but we learned a couple of things that surprised us as well. Now I feel better armed and know that I can bump a couple things up a notch, since boredom really is her reason for losing interest in them, i.e. the 2nd-grade grammar we're doing right now.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input!

 

One thing I learned was to take test results with a grain of salt. My son took the tests and was very cooperative and had a great time with the test (no anxiety, uncooperativeness, problems with being timed etc - nothing that would negatively impact his score) and tested one point below gifted on the WISC IV. My gut feeling was that wasn't right but that wasn't the part of testing we brought him in for so the number was really not important.

 

We have had him take the Explore or ACT every year since through talent search programs to help me track his progress. When looking at score minimums for applying to Davidson, he has met score minimum for 2-3 years ahead of his grade every single year. He is PG but yet his official IQ score "label" him as not qualifying for most gifted programs (using the 130 cutoff). So clearly his WISC scores aren't a true reflection of him.

 

If your gut says that her scores are low based on your asssessment of her abilities than they probably are.

[Embassy]

Overall, we learned that she basically needs to work on her listening skills and learn how to work through challenges instead of just giving up when she reaches a new level.

 

I'm sure this doesn't apply to you, but it reminded me of something. When I was in school eons ago I sat in a parent teacher conference where the teacher went over my achievement test scores. I didn't understand percentiles, but I did hear my teacher say I needed to work on vocabulary. For years and years I thought I had a poor vocabulary. I saw my test scores from that year a couple of years ago and I was astonished. My vocabulary percentile scores of the achievement test were high average - they just weren't as high as other areas.

 

I tested my oldest son in Kindergarten through a local university. Everyone else wanted to charge me $$$ so I went to my old department and borrowed some tests that I was qualified to give. It gave me valuable information on my son's learning style and strengths. It helped me approach learning differently with him. I knew he would score well based on his academics and just living with him, but the results surprised me because they painted a clear picture of how he thinks. I don't have an IQ score, but I didn't need one. Now if I can figure out how to handle all the overexcitiabilities in this household I would be very happy.

[DandelionMom]

I had a suspicion when my oldest daughter started speaking at 4 months, and taught herself to read at 3. People used to stop me in the middle of the grocery store in awe that my 10 month old was talking to them in complex, understandable sentences. We took her to the Gifted Development Center when she was 4 to be tested because we didn't know what to do with her and found out she was PG. Our youngest daughter followed suit, talking at 4 months, taught herself to read at 3, and scored even higher than her sister on her IQ tests.

 

I highly recommend the Gifted Development Center because they specialize in extreme giftedness and visual spacial learners, and I also recommend the Davidson Institute, who has helped our family tremendously by supporting and advocating for our daughters throughout their childhood.

 

I have a different opinion than some in that I highly recommend having testing done if you think your child may be PG. My oldest daughter could have been misdiagnosed had we not had her tested because she was extremely precocious and also has aspergers. Testing allowed us to formulate an educational plan and enabled us to respond to our daughters with understanding instead of frustration. Just my 2 cents.

Edited January 3, 2011 by DandelionMom

[DandelionMom]

I was tested as a kid, and my mom always refused to tell me my IQ. She said the psychologist called it "so high as to be statistically inaccurate".

 

To this day I wish I had that number! Dunno why... self-validation? (I'm a classic gifted kid who melted into the average... lots of self-doubt now that I'm an adult. That's another thread, though.)

 

I hear you...same happened to me!

[Ummsamiyah]

I'm not testing mine. My parents put me through that starting at age 3 and it never did me any good.

 

Same here. I am just giving them things that challenge them when it feels right. I love the fact that they love learning without feeling pressured to keep up or stress from not being challenged. I don't think it is a bad idea to have your kiddo tested, especially since you can get some (free) assistance with resources.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Ummsamiyah