If your 8th grader could receive HS credit for...

[Magic Wand]

some classes, including science, but it had to be a high school level course to qualify, would you skip Apologia physical science and move to Apologia Biology? DD wants to do this; we're just finishing General Science.

 

She's capable of performing the work. I'm primarily curious if it matters whether or not we rearrange the order; Biology this fall and physical science next fall.

 

The caveat is she will be tested for science in 8th grade and the topics appear to be more in line with the physical science text. Her father and I are divorced and test scores are important to him. She's always done very well, but...we obviously want her to feel well prepared. I suppose there are other ways we could prepare...

 

Just sorting this out a bit and would love some input. I'm just not sure if it would be a more logical progression to move from general to physical to biology or if the order really matters.

[gingersmom]

I was under the impression you could not get credit for high school unless the class was taken in 9th grade or higher?

[2cents]

Absolutely! My middle schoolers have been taking courses for high school credit already. From what I understand, Apologia Biology doesn't have a prerequisite and you can easily go right into it. We are considering skipping over the physical and going to biology too. The girls did Apologia General and have done a lot of physical science so we thought a skip to biology would be a nice change.

[emubird]

The high school students around here take physical science in 9th grade unless they test out of it. If they do test out of it (and many do) they just go straight into biology and never take physical science.

 

They are doing "science" in 8th grade, so maybe that is where they get the physical science that they are then tested on. I wonder if General Science is pretty much the same thing.

 

What test will she be taking?

 

I'd be inclined to do what she's interested in.

 

But I can't speak for Apologia in particular, and that may have been what you were asking.

[Magic Wand]

Because we are signed up under a "school" she can get high school credit. She is required to take state testing and has always scored high, therefore they allow some credits.

 

Thank you, ladies!

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

If her math lines up I might be more inclined to skip Physical Science altogether and go for more higher sciences because the sequence might look "funny" on her transcript. It would probably be worth calling a college or two to see what they say, especially if she has any in mind already.

[Magic Wand]

Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I hadn't thought of how the sequence might look on her transcript. I will definitely do so more research.

 

 

If her math lines up I might be more inclined to skip Physical Science altogether and go for more higher sciences because the sequence might look "funny" on her transcript. It would probably be worth calling a college or two to see what they say, especially if she has any in mind already.

[Miss Marple]

Something to think about before deciding about 8th grade high school credit is how the universities view this sort of thing. While we can give credit in any way we wish, the universities we looked at were only interested in the credits earned while in grades 9-12. IOW, it doesn't matter that my son has done algebra 1 and geometry in 7th and 8th (using high school level materials), they want to see 4 years of high school math during the high school years. So his math line-up for his transcript will show that he is taking algebra 2, Pre-calc/trig/, calculus, and statistics. The same works for the sciences.

 

So, just because we can doesn't mean it will always serve us. If your daughter doesn't intend to go to college it won't really matter. But if she is college bound, you may want to check with the colleges she is interested in attending to see what their requirements are.

 

FWIW, I would not give high school credit for physical science (based on our university/college observations). If time were a factor, I'd skip it and move straight to the usual high school line-up. But it is a great course for 8th grade and she will have time to move through the regular science line-up (biology, chemistry, and physics) during her true high school years.

[Georgia On My Mind]

As a former principal in a private school in our state, I would throw out one caution. When you start a very advanced track in either math or science, you will set your child up for very advanced 12th grade math and science. If your child is a math/science whiz you are on the right track but if you have a language oriented child you might want to rethink the advanced track in math/science. Either way, the last two years can be Honors or AP credits if the courses are on that level. I believe most 8th graders are now taking Algebra I if they are college prep and that doesn't cause a question for any colleges in my state nor put them on such an advanced track they have to be math nerds to graduate. In our state, Physical Science is a freshman science requirement so doing it in 8th grade is certainly OK. I hope this was helpful. Just something I had to deal with as prinicpal with scheduling in a Christian high school.

Carolyn

[AnitaMcC]

I was under the impression you could not get credit for high school unless the class was taken in 9th grade or higher?

 

What I have been told, high school courses taken in middle school can count for high school credit.

 

My twins took algebra 1 in 8th grade at public school and it was listed on their high school transcript.

 

I am counting my twins algebra 1 course and their accelerated (9th grade level in 8th grade) language arts course from 8th grade for high school credit.

[AnitaMcC]

Something to think about before deciding about 8th grade high school credit is how the universities view this sort of thing. While we can give credit in any way we wish, the universities we looked at were only interested in the credits earned while in grades 9-12. IOW, it doesn't matter that my son has done algebra 1 and geometry in 7th and 8th (using high school level materials), they want to see 4 years of high school math during the high school years. So his math line-up for his transcript will show that he is taking algebra 2, Pre-calc/trig/, calculus, and statistics. The same works for the sciences.

 

But it also depends on how you do your high school transcripts. What format you use. For me... I am listing the courses and credits earned based on the subject in the order they took the course, and not when they took it.

 

So for example: under Math... we list algebra 1, algebra 2, geometry, precalculus, statistics, calculus.... and so on.

[ChemMommy]

9th graders here all take physical science, so it certainly is considered high school level work. If a child is advanced in math, they let him/her take algebra in 7th or 8th grade and just move them up through math at the pace the child can handle. The understanding is that kids need Alg I, Alg, II, and Geometry to graduate and it is unimportant at what grade it is taken. Three years of a lab science are required, but again, the grade is irrelevant.

 

My suspicion is that the admission department couldn't care less about whether Alg I is taken in 9th or 8th! They care that 3 years of what is typically called high school math is taken and that the child completed the equivalent of Alg II.

 

Call an admission department or two and ask. But, consider first what is best for your child. If standardized tests are important to dad, then take that into consideration or clear the altered order of subjects with him in advance.

 

Finally, decide where you want your child to be in 12th grade as far as math and science. Now, work backwards from there until you get to 8th grade. That may help you clarify your thinking about high school level math and science.

[Brindee]

Something to think about before deciding about 8th grade high school credit is how the universities view this sort of thing. While we can give credit in any way we wish, the universities we looked at were only interested in the credits earned while in grades 9-12. IOW, it doesn't matter that my son has done algebra 1 and geometry in 7th and 8th (using high school level materials), they want to see 4 years of high school math during the high school years. So his math line-up for his transcript will show that he is taking algebra 2, Pre-calc/trig/, calculus, and statistics. The same works for the sciences.

 

So, just because we can doesn't mean it will always serve us. If your daughter doesn't intend to go to college it won't really matter. But if she is college bound, you may want to check with the colleges she is interested in attending to see what their requirements are.

:iagree:

 

Just curious: Is there a big reason to put high school classes done in middle school on a high school transcript? It's fine if they do them, but then once in high school wouldn't you just put what they do in the actual high school years?

 

Both my boys did Algebra 1 in 8th grade. My oldest did 9th grade English/Lit in 8th grade. But I just put the work they actually did once they started high school on their transcript. If I put Geometry for 9th grade, and Algebra 2 for 10th, etc., it will be common knowledge, then, for anyone who looks at the transcript, that they already did Algebra 1........right? My boys had PLENTY of hours, so didn't need it on their transcripts anyway.

 

So, as I said, I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Brindee

[FloridaLisa]

I agree with both of these:

 

If her math lines up I might be more inclined to skip Physical Science altogether and go for more higher sciences because the sequence might look "funny" on her transcript. It would probably be worth calling a college or two to see what they say, especially if she has any in mind already.

 

I wouldn't rearrange the order either. If you want to do both, hit physical science first and then biology.

 

As a former principal in a private school in our state, I would throw out one caution. When you start a very advanced track in either math or science, you will set your child up for very advanced 12th grade math and science. If your child is a math/science whiz you are on the right track but if you have a language oriented child you might want to rethink the advanced track in math/science. Either way, the last two years can be Honors or AP credits if the courses are on that level.

 

Think about where you want your dd to end up. Sketch out a science sequence for the next few years. Ds1 wanted to be able to take APs and college sciences in his upper hs years. Ds2, probably not a science major, will likely take AP Environmental and a gen ed science course.

 

Lisa

[Miss Marple]

Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter how you do the transcript. The colleges we looked at want to see the work done in 9-12 and they say that specifically. They ask what math was done in 9th, what was done in 10th, etc. They ask what sciences were earned in the 9-12th grades.

 

The colleges and universities hold the cards on this one. Some will be fine with credits earned in 8th (most likely these will be private colleges). But ALL the ones we looked at asked specifically for the courses done in the years 9-12. One particular university actually went so far as to show the scenario of algebra 1 in 8th and indicated that they wanted to see 4 more math courses above algebra 1 in the high school years.

 

I would caution you to be careful and check with the university/universities your children are seeking to attend. You may find yourself in a bit of a bind when the time comes to submit those transcripts.

 

Of course, if you are doing this to accelerate graduation, it won't be a problem. Because then your 8th will really be your 9th and so on.

[In The Great White North]

I'd go for it.

 

If her math lines up I might be more inclined to skip Physical Science altogether and go for more higher sciences because the sequence might look "funny" on her transcript.

 

We skipped Physical Science altogether and didn't feel the lack.

I certainly wouldn't do it after biology.

 

 

When you start a very advanced track in either math or science, you will set your child up for very advanced 12th grade math and science. If your child is a math/science whiz you are on the right track but if you have a language oriented child you might want to rethink the advanced track in math/science.

 

Certainly is a concern in a school setting. As homeschoolers, if she doesn't want to do AP Calculus, AP Statistics, AP Physics etc her senior year, we can do astronomy, botany, Number Theory, accounting, or whatever interests her.

[AnitaMcC]

9th graders here all take physical science, so it certainly is considered high school level work. If a child is advanced in math, they let him/her take algebra in 7th or 8th grade and just move them up through math at the pace the child can handle. The understanding is that kids need Alg I, Alg, II, and Geometry to graduate and it is unimportant at what grade it is taken. Three years of a lab science are required, but again, the grade is irrelevant.

 

My suspicion is that the admission department couldn't care less about whether Alg I is taken in 9th or 8th! They care that 3 years of what is typically called high school math is taken and that the child completed the equivalent of Alg II.

 

 

 

This is my thoughts too. It doesn't matter when the courses are taken, just that the courses are taken. If a student is taking pretty much all high school level courses in 8th grade..... then they can skip 8th grade and be 9th grade. It doesn't mean they have to graduate early... but maybe do 5 yrs of high school by spreading out the courses, go more in depth, add more focus to the student's interests, etc.

 

For us... Ds will be graduating high school at end of 10th grade, so counting his English 9 and Algebra 1 he took in 8th grade is necessary. His twin sister isn't in a hurry to get done with high school. She might graduate end of 11th grade but I think she is more likely going to do 12th grade. She rather go a bit slower and do more in her area of interests (Kung Fu training for the Olympics, and music).

[J-rap]

In my community, we are free to take high school classes in 8th grade and count it as h.s. credits. 9th graders at our high school must take Physical Science. They do not even have the option of testing out of it. But, they do have the option of taking Biology the same year. Most of my kids took Physical Science (at home) in 8th grade, but I counted it as 9th grade high school course, because it meets the requirements of 9th grade science. Then when they were in 9th grade, they jumped straight to Bio -- usually a year ahead of the ps 9th graders.

[PeterPan]

This is my thoughts too. It doesn't matter when the courses are taken, just that the courses are taken. If a student is taking pretty much all high school level courses in 8th grade..... then they can skip 8th grade and be 9th grade. It doesn't mean they have to graduate early... but maybe do 5 yrs of high school by spreading out the courses, go more in depth, add more focus to the student's interests, etc.

 

Having worked in a university admissions office evaluating transcripts, I can tell you this is NOT correct. They DO care when the courses were taken and they aren't stupid. You're going to have labels (year, grade level, whatever), and they're going to sort it out with a big red pen. Where I worked, everything before 9th (or 4 years before graduation) and everything not considered high school level (physical science, pre-algebra, etc.) was marked off, red inked, totally ignored. So YOU can count it toward your graduation requirements, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it will help you with getting into the university of your choice. And you can't just go by what people get away with, because they don't really know what is going on behind the scenes, how much red ink spilled on their transcript.

 

The advice to think through your long term plan is right on. Will this umbrella school provide classes all the way through high school? If she takes the biology and realizes she's not quite ready or isn't going to make a good grade, can she drop without penalty and retake it the following year?

[Magic Wand]

will accelerate high school and likely leave her with dual enrollment in her later high school years. She will receive a diploma from the umbrella school and end up with some cc classes under her belt.

 

You've all given me much to think about, which is one of the many reasons I value the input of this board. Worst case scenario for her is that she'll end up with additional high school credits. There are many upper level science courses she can continue to take and it's not unusual to take algebra I in 8th grade. Even so, I appreciate the additional relevant factors you have given me to consider; primarily consideration of the requirements of any college she might wish to attend. Decisions, decisions, sigh...

 

To be continued...

 

Thank you!

[Joan in GE]

for the colleges with different requirements if there is any advantage...ie dc have done all the requirements but it may be better to list one way vs the other.

 

Thinking more about this...

For the original question about science, I don't really think the Physical Science is of a high school level. And if you are concerned about testing questions, it is probably better to do physical science instead of biology in 8th grade. There are lots of physics type questions that are hard to answer if you haven't studied it...But maybe you could do physics with Holt Physics and the Georgia Public Broadcasting (see secular science thread or do search)...that might prepare her and you could count it as 9th grade science, especially if she will do an AP level physics later...But for the GPB Physics, she would have had to do Algebra I at least already...

 

Joan

Edited May 31, 2010 by Joan in Geneva
further reflection

[johnandtinagilbert]

Whether or not h.s. courses taken in middle school courses count for high school depends on where you live. We can here in FL :), I am very happy to report! So high school graduation will and scheduling will be a breeze. We'll have lots of space in our high school schedule to complete whatever we need.

 

Regarding college entry, if dc pass Alg. 2 and score well on college entrance exams, whether or not the college will count their middle school Algebra credits won't matter....so long as we have enough math credits to please the University. For our plan, we will :) b/c we'll be dual enrolling a great deal. That's what I'll really be looking out for! From what I see locally, there are a lot of dc speeding up the math and sciences a year or so by the time they get to high school...that's the impact of honors tracks and magnet schools in the area. I have to admit, while there is plenty wrong with the public schools around here, there are Opportunities for speedy advancement if students and/or parents will look into them.

 

Back to the OP :) For those reasons (not too concerned RE: h.s. credits or college entry), I am skipping physical science. From what I understand, many schools no longer have physical science (P.S.), and from just right this minute :) looking at apologia P.S. versus high school Physics, I have definitely decided to drop P.S. and move right to biology...my plan is simply to offer reading material on the topics taught in P.S. over the summer, just in case, but the topic areas don't seem necessary. So, this coming year I'll put my 9th and 8th grader in Biology w/ full labs.

 

FWIW, I've decided to approach middle school science differently with the next lot...more hands-on, less Apologia; but I'll head towards Apologia again for high school. Any children heading into science related fields will probably use elective space to add even more science in high school.

 

Just my high school newbie 2 cents :)

[emubird]

On my daughter's transcript, in the main part I listed only what she had done in 9-12. I had a separate footnote to list what she had done before that. I probably could have left that out altogether as it mostly consisted of the math she had taken before 9th grade (which might have been obvious, given what math she was then taking in high school), Spanish (also obvious, as she started high school with Spanish 2), and a year of Latin (which wouldn't have been obvious because she didn't go on with it in high school, but by the same token, might just have been ignored by the admissions people because she had another language to fulfill that requirement -- still I put it there, just in case anyone was interested).

 

Science might be a different issue, though. If a student does biology in 8th grade and doesn't go on to advanced biology, it will look like they didn't do biology at all if you leave off all the 8th grade classes. But if it really is a high school level class, I could see slipping it on to the high school transcript. I'd be leer of including all 8th grade classes, though. For example, colleges like to see X number of classes in English or history in the high school years. They will not be impressed if the student did them earlier. They won't look like high school classes. If the student goes on to do that X number of years in high school on top of what they did in 8th grade, then there's probably not much point to listing the 8th grade class -- unless it was some really interesting topic that you want to get on the transcript.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Having worked in a university admissions office evaluating transcripts, I can tell you this is NOT correct. They DO care when the courses were taken and they aren't stupid. You're going to have labels (year, grade level, whatever), and they're going to sort it out with a big red pen. Where I worked, everything before 9th (or 4 years before graduation) and everything not considered high school level (physical science, pre-algebra, etc.) was marked off, red inked, totally ignored. So YOU can count it toward your graduation requirements, absolutely, but that doesn't mean it will help you with getting into the university of your choice. And you can't just go by what people get away with, because they don't really know what is going on behind the scenes, how much red ink spilled on their transcript.

 

The advice to think through your long term plan is right on. Will this umbrella school provide classes all the way through high school? If she takes the biology and realizes she's not quite ready or isn't going to make a good grade, can she drop without penalty and retake it the following year?

 

Thanks Elizabeth, that was really interesting and good to know!!

[8filltheheart]

 

Just curious: Is there a big reason to put high school classes done in middle school on a high school transcript? It's fine if they do them, but then once in high school wouldn't you just put what they do in the actual high school years?

 

.

 

It really depends on what you are discussing as being done prior to high school. For my oldest, it really was irrelevant b/c it was really just alg 1 (he did physical science in 8th but the universities we looked at did not consider physical an acceptable high school science for those applying to the engineering school)

 

With my rising 9th grader, it does matter. He will have a 5 column transcript listed as: prior to 9th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th. I am definitely going to include his coursework prior to high school, not b/c he will need the credit or b/c he won't have the higher level work demonstrated on his transcript, but b/c it demonstrates who he is. He will have alg 1, geo, alg 2, alg 3, Introduction to Counting and Probability, physics, and French 1 all listed as prior to 9th grade.

 

He worked hard in every single on of those courses. He deserves recognition for having achieved those credits at a younger age. While I don't expect him "receive credit" toward high school credit hrs toward his diploma, I do expect him to "receive credit" for his abilities and effort.

[Brindee]

It really depends on what you are discussing as being done prior to high school. For my oldest, it really was irrelevant b/c it was really just alg 1 (he did physical science in 8th but the universities we looked at did not consider physical an acceptable high school science for those applying to the engineering school)

 

With my rising 9th grader, it does matter. He will have a 5 column transcript listed as: prior to 9th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th. I am definitely going to include his coursework prior to high school, not b/c he will need the credit or b/c he won't have the higher level work demonstrated on his transcript, but b/c it demonstrates who he is. He will have alg 1, geo, alg 2, alg 3, Introduction to Counting and Probability, physics, and French 1 all listed as prior to 9th grade.

 

He worked hard in every single on of those courses. He deserves recognition for having achieved those credits at a younger age. While I don't expect him "receive credit" toward high school credit hrs toward his diploma, I do expect him to "receive credit" for his abilities and effort.

Ahhhhhh, I see. That makes sense! Thankyou for giving me the scenario for your ds!