What is reformed?

[Mynyel]

What is a "reformed" Christian view? I don't understand. What other "views" are out there?

 

You have some splainin' to do Lucy! :)

[seibert4kids]

Definitely NOT an expert on "reformed theology" here, but we recently were members of a church who was "reformed" and learned a bit there. Basically, I think it refers to the fact that they usually consider themselves Calvinist (as opposed to Arminians), which has a bearing on how they view salvation (do not believe in man's free will, but rather in God's sovereign predestination apart from man's desires/choices).

I'm sure others could shed much clearer light on this issue, but I "think" that is the gist of it!

[Daisy]

Here is a good free online series on the subject.

 

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/

 

R.C. Sproul's book by the same name is also an excellent introduction to reformed theology.

 

Here is a decent short article, though definitely not comprehensive.

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/reformed-theology.html

Edited May 11, 2010 by Daisy

[simka2]

I will do my best here...but dh would do so much better as he was raised Christian Reformed. It's one of the theology branches of Christianity. I'm going to speak in real basic terms...just who I am, so I'm sure someone else will give you a better explanation :)

 

It stems back to Martin Luther and the birth of a new type of Christianity from the Catholic Church. That is why that time is referred to as the Reformation. Later on, more theologians would come and add to or take away ( counterreformation) from Luther's original belifes, sprouting more branches in that wing of Christianity.

 

As a result we now have various denominations and belife systems all stemming from the original reformed theology. There are some things in reformed theology that everyone does not agree, with hence the branching off of other christian theologies.

 

Let me bring this back to curriculum. If I know that a curriculum is from a reformed world view, and I don't agree with all of their theology, then I'm going to prepare myself to have some great theological discussions with the kiddos :)

 

Some of the sticky issues with reformed theology are, but not limited too...predestination, common grace, special grace...

 

but there are other sticky issue's with the other branches of theology. Arminianism was the direct coutermovement of the reformed/calvinistic theology. Then later came Baptist, Penetcostal and many others.

 

Hope that helped!!!!

 

I'm just curious if there is a good classically based curriculum that is non-denominational in it's approach. :)

[forty-two]

Yep, reformed generally means some flavor of Calvinist, and a big thing for them is the sovereignty of God.

 

A handy summary of basic Calvinism is TULIP:

Total Depravity

Unconditional Election

Limited Atonement

Irresistible Grace

Perseverance of the Saints

 

Arminianism was developed as a response to Calvinism, by a one-time student of Calvin.

 

Other views:

*Catholic

*Orthodox

*Anglican/Episcopal (often referred to as the Via Media - the middle way b/w Catholics and Protestant)

*Lutheran - our big thing is the proper distinction between Law and Gospel, and always emphasizing the centrality of the grace of God; we make a big point that on our own we can't do anything (not just that we can't save ourselves), so it is a good thing that Christ has already done it :).

*Methodist

*Various flavors of anabaptists

[ScoutTN]

Disclaimer: I hold a reformed view very strongly. I hope my thoughts expressed here are gracious and charitable as well as accurate.

 

The word comes from the Protestant Reformation. Theologically reformed churches generally emphasize the authority and inspiration of Scripture and the sovereignty of God in salvation.

 

One useful (but by no means the only) summary of reformed theology is the five points of calvinism. TULIP. Total depravity meaning that every part of human nature is affected and tainted by sin. Unconditional election meaing God chooses whom He will not based on anything we do, but on His will alone. Limited atonement meaning that Christ died to fully secure salvation for His people rather to make it possible, but not certain for everyone. Irresistible grace meaning that when God sets out to save someone, He is always successful. Sin is not stronger than God. Perseverance of the saints - commonly expressed as "once saved, always saved".

 

Most Presbyterian churches and some Baptist ones and many other smaller denominations have a reformed theology. John Piper and Allistair Begg are great Baptists preachers who are reformed. R.C. Sproul and Tim Keller are popular Presbyterian authors/speakers.

 

The best readable book on reformed theology that I have ever read is Michael Horton's Putting Amazing Back Into Grace.

 

Arminianism is Reformed theology's opposite and has become prevalent in most American churches in the last 100 years or so. It allows for a man to reject God's grace and not be saved when God would have him saved. Also it would limit the power of Christ's atonement rather than the scope of it.

 

If you're ever interested in more discussion, pm me. I love to talk theology!

Edited May 12, 2010 by ScoutTN

[milovany]

I never knew what reformed theology was either (the part about it stemming from the "reform"ation) -- thanks, learn something new.

[Mynyel]

So reformation would tend to be at odds (at least somewhat) with Universalism (not to be confused with Unitarian I am not Unitarian).

 

So if I use a curriculum with reformation views then my kids and I will have some interesting discussions then..would that be a safe assumption? :001_smile:

 

I don't mind it at all...just want to know what I am getting into!

[mommaduck]

So reformation would tend to be at odds (at least somewhat) with Universalism (not to be confused with Unitarian I am not Unitarian).

 

So if I use a curriculum with reformation views then my kids and I will have some interesting discussions then..would that be a safe assumption? :001_smile:

 

I don't mind it at all...just want to know what I am getting into!

Yes and yes. It is definitely at odds with universalism and you will have some VERY interesting discussions with your children.

[CAMom]

Just want to add that most people think of "Reformed" in terms of the doctrine of salvation as summarized in the TULIP acronym that others have shared.

 

However, there is more to being Reformed including being Covenantal as opposed to Dispensational. Much of this will be obvious in the view of eschatology (the end time) and ecclesiology (the doctrine of the church).

 

Also (if I'm remembering right from my previous studies), "Calvinism" was developed in response to "Arminianism" not the other way around.;)

[AuntieM]

Just want to add that most people think of "Reformed" in terms of the doctrine of salvation as summarized in the TULIP acronym that others have shared.

 

However, there is more to being Reformed including being Covenantal as opposed to Dispensational. Much of this will be obvious in the view of eschatology (the end time) and ecclesiology (the doctrine of the church).

 

Also (if I'm remembering right from my previous studies), "Calvinism" was developed in response to "Arminianism" not the other way around.;)

 

Not all of us who adhere to a reformed stance on salvation and the sovereignty of God hold to a covenantal position on eschatology... just to make it more confusing for you... ;)

[IsabelC]

I used to think that was a person who used to be Christian but then realized that Christianity is wrong and stopped doing it - like a reformed drug addict :001_huh:

[CAMom]

Not all of us who adhere to a reformed stance on salvation and the sovereignty of God hold to a covenantal position on eschatology... just to make it more confusing for you... ;)

 

Oh I totally know that.;)

 

I was just pointing out that the label "Reformed" actually encompasses a lot more than sotieriology.

 

When many people say they are "Reformed" they mean as it applies to salvation. But, the term goes further than that.:)

[AuntieM]

Oh I totally know that.;)

 

I was just pointing out that the label "Reformed" actually encompasses a lot more than sotieriology.

 

When many people say they are "Reformed" they mean as it applies to salvation. But, the term goes further than that.:)

 

So would you apply a different term for those of us who are only...partially?.... "reformed"? Genuinely curious....

[Mynyel]

I am still :001_huh: and :willy_nilly: and :blink:...

 

However I align myself for a Universalist (at least I think that is the right term) though I don't even know if that is what to call it. I visit tentmaker.org quite frequently for things and that is pretty much what I believe.

 

So if I go for the Omnibus curriculum we are going to have some interesting talks :D Which is great, keeps the neurons firing!

[Caitilin]

Can someone please direct me to a site which will explain some of the terms used here? I am not familiar with Covenantal, Dispensational as descriptions of parts of Christian belief. I would love to be able to understand these conversations better. :) Thanks!

[mommaduck]

Ruh-roh! I predict a "are Reformed Baptists really Reformed" type of debate brewing ;)

[Beth in Central TX]

So if I go for the Omnibus curriculum we are going to have some interesting talks :D Which is great, keeps the neurons firing!

 

Or you could convert like we did after going through Omnibus I and part of Omnibus II...it's a slippery slope to the dark side!

[ScoutTN]

Covenant theology is a subset of Reformed theology. Covenantal is by definition reformed, but the reverse is not true. Covenant theology emphasizes continuity between OT and NT and people who hold this view are usually postmillienial or amillienial in their view of end times. Reformed publishers are P&R, Crossway, Banner of Truth, Soli Deo Gloria.

 

Dispensationalism is a subset of Arminian theology. Dispensationalism refers to a particular view of Scripture and how God work through time. Dispensational theology emphasized discontinuity from OT to NT and tends to be strongly premillenial in eschatology. The Left Behind books exemplify this position. The Ryrie or Scofield Bible versions too.

 

Within the pool of people who hold a reformed view of salvation (Soteriology is the doctrine of salvation.) there are a variety of views on things like eschatology (end times or last things), baptism, election/predestination and church government. Hence the comment above about the "Are Reformed Baptist Reformed debate".

 

The Arminian/Calvinist debate actually predates the Reformation period and originates (in terms of written theological statements by pastor/teachers in the church) in the late 4th and early 5th centuries with Augustine and Pelagius. Arminian theology as argued in the reformation era and as it exists now is traditionally called semi-Pelagianism in formal theology. The differences are fundamentally on doctrines of grace, sin and anthropology (doctrine of man). Those necessarily have effects on soteriology. A fully Pelagian view (not a semi-) was condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431.

 

HTH! Maybe not?

Edited May 12, 2010 by ScoutTN

[simka2]

Or you could convert like we did after going through Omnibus I and part of Omnibus II...it's a slippery slope to the dark side!

 

 

This made me smile!!!! :D

[redheadeddaughter]

When it comes to curriculum choices, for me, the most obvious way the reformed "view" influences the content is in the way the author/publishers views the role of God and man in history. Even without getting into deep theological discussions (oh how I love those!)... a reformed author generally believes that God has a purpose and a plan for each and every nation and person in history. The idea that we are "all just passing through" is expressly rejected and a strong desire to influence and change and be involved in culture and history is present in nearly all the products/books I've seen. I really like that, personally, and want to pass that particularly vivid worldview down to my offspring... but others may not. It does stem from some deep theological beliefs, but those particular issues (the sovereignty of God, etc.) may not be obvious all the time.

[StephanieZ]

So reformation would tend to be at odds (at least somewhat) with Universalism (not to be confused with Unitarian I am not Unitarian).

 

So if I use a curriculum with reformation views then my kids and I will have some interesting discussions then..would that be a safe assumption? :001_smile:

 

I don't mind it at all...just want to know what I am getting into!

 

Actually, from my very limited knowledge of the TULIP standards (just what I've read here) and my not quite as limited but still very elementary general theological

knowledge, I believe that Universalism would be consistent with at least the ULIP standards. . . with the exception that Universalists believe that God predestines every human being to salvation. Which, in my mind, makes a lot of sense, if one believes in predestination. (Would God actually predestine a soul to ****ation before their very birth? YIKES!)

 

 

Essentially, universalism is just a type of belief in predestination that believes that every soul is predestined for salvation. . . instead of believing that some are predestined for salvation and others for ****ation.

 

I believe that UUs (Unitarian Universalists) as well as (some) Primitive Baptists are universalist churches.

 

Personally, I love the Universalist concept. If I could believe in predestination, I'd be a universalist for sure. Free will speaks more truth to me personally, but I really love the universal salvation thing in theory.

Edited May 12, 2010 by StephanieZ

[mommaduck]

Covenant theology is a subset of Reformed theology. Covenantal is by definition reformed, but the reverse is not true. Covenant theology emphasizes continuity between OT and NT and people who hold this view are usually postmillienial or amillienial in their view of end times.

There are some very conservative Covenental Reformed that are historic premillienial, which is very different from dispensational pretribulational premillienial ala Jenkins and LaHaye.

[lionfamily1999]

TULIP.

 

 

Total depravity meaning that every part of human nature is affected and tainted by sin.

Unconditional election meaing God chooses whom He will not based on anything we do, but on His will alone.

Limited atonement meaning that Christ died to fully secure salvation for His people rather to make it possible, but not certain for everyone.

Irresistible grace meaning that when God sets out to save someone, He is always successful. Sin is not stronger than God.

Perseverance of the saints - commonly expressed as "once saved, always saved".

 

 

 

 

Actually, from my very limited knowledge of the TULIP standards (just what I've read here) and my not quite as limited but still very elementary general theological knowledge, I believe that Universalism would be consistent with at least the ULIP standards. . .

Just looking into their site, I'm not sure they're consistent with any of the TULIP standards. At least, not consistently :p They (apparently) have athiests as part of their congregation, that would negate the standards as a whole. :lol: But then, looking at their site, they have a little of every group in their congregation, which would make universal standards of salvation or naming a specific god impossible.

 

[Mynyel]

Just looking into their site, I'm not sure they're consistent with any of the TULIP standards. At least, not consistently :p They (apparently) have athiests as part of their congregation, that would negate the standards as a whole. :lol: But then, looking at their site, they have a little of every group in their congregation, which would make universal standards of salvation or naming a specific god impossible.

[/center]

 

What website are you looking at? It seems from what I have read on here perhaps it isn't Universalism I speak of that I believe.

 

I go to tentmaker.org and saviorofall.com

 

I get most of my info from those two sites so.....

[lionfamily1999]

What website are you looking at? It seems from what I have read on here perhaps it isn't Universalism I speak of that I believe.

 

I go to tentmaker.org and saviorofall.com

 

I get most of my info from those two sites so.....

Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregants and some random searches on ask.com.

 

ETA, I tried tentmaker.org, but had problems finding a "what we are" section. That's why I ran a few searches. I only had the vaguest ideas of what Universalism was...

[Mynyel]

Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregants and some random searches on ask.com.

 

ETA, I tried tentmaker.org, but had problems finding a "what we are" section. That's why I ran a few searches. I only had the vaguest ideas of what Universalism was...

 

 

That isn't the right website for me. I am not Unitarian. And according to wiki there are several kinds fo Universalism. However here..

 

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/universalism-refuted.htm

 

is what I am talking about :)

[i.love.lucy]

Can someone please direct me to a site which will explain some of the terms used here? I am not familiar with Covenantal, Dispensational as descriptions of parts of Christian belief. I would love to be able to understand these conversations better. :) Thanks!

Try Theopedia for this. It's the wiki for theological terms and gives other helpful links.

[lionfamily1999]

That isn't the right website for me. I am not Unitarian. And according to wiki there are several kinds fo Universalism. However here..

 

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/universalism-refuted.htm

 

is what I am talking about :)

AH! I guess Universalism is just as denomination specific as the next guy :p

[CAMom]

So would you apply a different term for those of us who are only...partially?.... "reformed"? Genuinely curious....

 

Oh no! I'm not trying to label or pigeonhole anyone. Most of the time I will hear the Reformed Baptist label put on those who are Reformed with regards to salvation only.

 

And, I'm not at all claiming anyone to be partially Reformed or less Reformed than someone else. All I was saying was that there is more to Reformed doctrine than TULIP and there are Christians who fall all up and down that spectrum.

 

I'm also not saying that I have it all figured out or that my brand of Reformed is right. I'm on the journey of sanctification just like every other believer and I completely respect where any of my brothers or sisters are in their own journey.

 

:grouphug:

[simka2]

When it comes to curriculum choices, for me, the most obvious way the reformed "view" influences the content is in the way the author/publishers views the role of God and man in history. Even without getting into deep theological discussions (oh how I love those!)... a reformed author generally believes that God has a purpose and a plan for each and every nation and person in history. The idea that we are "all just passing through" is expressly rejected and a strong desire to influence and change and be involved in culture and history is present in nearly all the products/books I've seen. I really like that, personally, and want to pass that particularly vivid worldview down to my offspring... but others may not. It does stem from some deep theological beliefs, but those particular issues (the sovereignty of God, etc.) may not be obvious all the time.

 

I find what you have to say very interesting.

 

But don't other chrisitan author's (not reformed) believe God has a purpose and a plan for each and every nation and person in history?

 

:)

[silliness7]

Or you could convert like we did after going through Omnibus I and part of Omnibus II...it's a slippery slope to the dark side!

 

:lol:

 

We converted just reading the articles in the Veritas catalog :lol:

O.K. we did a little more reading than that but hadn't read Omnibus yet as my oldest was in 4th grade. Love the "dark" side :D

[lionfamily1999]

I find what you have to say very interesting.

 

But don't other chrisitan author's (not reformed) believe God has a purpose and a plan for each and every nation and person in history?

 

:)

I think the difference is between believing that all things happen according to God's plan, versus believing that God changes his plan according to what has happened. IOW, I break my leg. One person says, "God works in mysterious ways, trust Him" (basically, this is all part of His plan). The other says, "God had nothing to do with this, but I pray He'll give you peace" (this happened without God's will).

 

At least, that's my thought ;) I could be wrong.

[ScoutTN]

There are some very conservative Covenental Reformed that are historic premillienial, which is very different from dispensational pretribulational premillienial ala Jenkins and LaHaye.

 

I know. Please notice the word, "usually" in my post.

[Kathleen in VA]

So would you apply a different term for those of us who are only...partially?.... "reformed"? Genuinely curious....

 

Ruh-roh! I predict a "are Reformed Baptists really Reformed" type of debate brewing ;)

 

Reformed is one of those words that means a lot of different things to different people. I believe in the Doctrines of Grace (also know by the acronym TULIP) but do not believe in convenantal theology or infant baptism. The book Are Baptists Reformed? by Kenneth Good explores these differences.

 

I think the main objection some Baptists have to the term reformed is that they believe Baptists have existed since the formation of the church in the NT and did not stray into Roman Catholicism and then return to "true" Christianity during the time period called the Reformation.

 

Also, Baptists do not hold to the teaching of Calvin that an earthly government should be established by Christians - a sacral society governed by OT law. Rather, they believe that God's kingdom is a heavenly kingdom, we are sojourners here on earth and our duty is to be "salt and light" in this world whatever nation we happen to live in.

[ScoutTN]

Universalism when understood as a descriptor of Christian theology does not mean that all men are saved because the Bible clearly and repeatedly states that that is not the case. Rather it means that,

" ...all that God does. looking to the salvation of men, he does for and to all men alike, without discrimination."

B.B.Warfield, The Plan of Salvation, p.14.

 

Many Christian churches, denominations and individuals hold to some form of universalism. Particularism is it's opposite.

 

The theological issue is:

" ...whether the saving grace of God, in which alone is salvation, actually saves. Does its presence mean salvation, or may it be present and yet salvation fail?"

"... whether the redemptive work of Christ actually saves those for whom it was wrought, or only opens a possibility of salvation to them."

Warfield, pp. 15,16

 

 

 

Unitarian Universalist "churches" are a religious organization, a sect or a cult. They do not affirm the basic doctrines of historic, orthodox, Biblical Christianity.

[mommaduck]

I know. Please notice the word, "usually" in my post.

:glare: Wow. Yes, the word "usually" was in there, but that left open a spot for speculation. I merely filled it in. Excuse me for stepping on your tender toes.

[angela in ohio]

Ruh-roh! I predict a "are Reformed Baptists really Reformed" type of debate brewing ;)

 

I think we've been around that block on the boards already. :D

 

We just left a PCA church for a Southern Baptist church with a reformed pastor, so I'm ready to argue any side of that one now. ;)

[mommaduck]

I think we've been around that block on the boards already. :D

 

We just left a PCA church for a Southern Baptist church with a reformed pastor, so I'm ready to argue any side of that one now. ;)

I know :) I was teasing ;) An old joke from a theology board I used to be on. Both sides of the baptismal mosh pit would laugh over it, because even though it was a question, both sides considered each other Reformed brothers and sisters...so it was purely a joke.

[simka2]

I think the difference is between believing that all things happen according to God's plan, versus believing that God changes his plan according to what has happened. IOW, I break my leg. One person says, "God works in mysterious ways, trust Him" (basically, this is all part of His plan). The other says, "God had nothing to do with this, but I pray He'll give you peace" (this happened without God's will).

 

At least, that's my thought ;) I could be wrong.

 

 

I think I get what your saying. I guess I fall in the later camp, because I do not believe God to be the author of bad things that happen, but the one who brings good out of those bad things!

 

Since I'm a bit on the liberal side and believe so stongly in "free-will" and Gods respect of it, I don't think I would make a good calvinist :).

[lionfamily1999]

I think I get what your saying. I guess I fall in the later camp, because I do not believe God to be the author of bad things that happen, but the one who brings good out of those bad things!

 

Since I'm a bit on the liberal side and believe so stongly in "free-will" and Gods respect of it, I don't think I would make a good calvinist :).

I used to be more in agreement with you (I'm hovering up in the air on this still), until I read the story of the blind man. Jesus heals him and the disciples ask whose sin it was that caused his blindness. Jesus tells them it was not someone's sin, it was so the glory of God could be made manifest through him. Blindness from birth is, it would seem, a "bad" thing. In this case, we know it wasn't a "bad" thing that came from sin. Now, did God create this "bad" thing? Well... Perhaps, and here's my big huge opinion :p Perhaps what we percieve to be "bad" things aren't bad. Perhaps there is a reason for every.single.thing. Perhaps the hypothetical broken arm was broken so that God's glory could be made manifest? In that case, is the broken arm bad?

 

:lol: And that's where I hover ;)

[angela in ohio]

It's really not as easy as Reformation = Reformed. If that was true, then anyone who wasn't Catholic would be Reformed. For example, Lutherans do not consider themselves Reformed, although they trace their heritage to the Protestant Reformation. (Wondering if I should put 'most' in there, as I can't say for sure there aren't a few Reformed Lutherans, who knows? :001_smile:)

 

The simplified version is that, after the Protestant Reformation (the one involving the Catholic church,) there was disagreement between two major schools of Protestant belief. John Calvin was an influential leader in one, and thus his name became associated with it. Jacobus Arminius rejected some of the key points of Calvinism which he had been taught. His followers (the Remonstrants, or Arminians) presented five areas that they disagreed with. In response, you get the Five Points of Calvinism, which refute the five points that the Arminians put forth.

 

Then there's the whole history of Arminianism and Calvinism in the U.S., and you get into the Puritans and Wesley and such... Most U.S. Protestant denominations at this point are influenced by Arminian beliefs, but Calvinism and Reformed theology (which some consider the same thing, and some don't) are growing.

[forty-two]

For example, Lutherans do not consider themselves Reformed, although they trace their heritage to the Protestant Reformation. (Wondering if I should put 'most' in there, as I can't say for sure there aren't a few Reformed Lutherans, who knows? :001_smile:)

Well, this Lutheran doesn't think you can be genuinely Lutheran - subscribing to the Lutheran confessions, the Book of Concord - and also be Reformed in any meaningful sense ;). (Though I've no doubt that there are a least a few people who would self-describe that way :glare:.)

 

While on a superficial level Lutherans could consider themselves 4-pt Calvinists (everything but limited atonement), once you look deeper into what Calvinists actually mean by the rest, we are at best 1-pt Calvinists (total depravity) and maybe not even that :tongue_smilie:. Certainly Luther and Calvin did not see their respective beliefs as even remotely compatible :D.

[angela in ohio]

Well, this Lutheran doesn't think you can be genuinely Lutheran - subscribing to the Lutheran confessions, the Book of Concord - and also be Reformed in any meaningful sense ;). (Though I've no doubt that there are a least a few people who would self-describe that way :glare:).

 

I can't see how, either, but you know as soon as I post that, someone will find an example. ;) :D

 

You know what I love about Lutherans? (1.) The Lutheran churches in our area are really open to hosting homeschool and arts events in their buildings. (2.) The Lutheran churches around here are really out in front on feeding and clothing the community. (3.) The Lutherans take care of the elderly so well. Totally off the topic, but I love that.

Edited May 13, 2010 by angela in ohio

[Marylou]

"Know what you believe and why you believe it"

 

http://www.whitehorseinn.org/

[i.love.lucy]

Reformed is one of those words that means a lot of different things to different people. I believe in the Doctrines of Grace (also know by the acronym TULIP) but do not believe in convenantal theology or infant baptism. The book Are Baptists Reformed? by Kenneth Good explores these differences.

 

I think the main objection some Baptists have to the term reformed is that they believe Baptists have existed since the formation of the church in the NT and did not stray into Roman Catholicism and then return to "true" Christianity during the time period called the Reformation.

 

Also, Baptists do not hold to the teaching of Calvin that an earthly government should be established by Christians - a sacral society governed by OT law. Rather, they believe that God's kingdom is a heavenly kingdom, we are sojourners here on earth and our duty is to be "salt and light" in this world whatever nation we happen to live in.

:iagree:Excellent post Kathleen! ITA (as usual) with you!:D

 

Calvinism and Reformed theology (which some consider the same thing, and some don't) are growing.

Recent Time article on Calvinism making a comeback.

[AuntieM]

CAmom, thanks for your sweet reply. Kathleen, I also enjoyed your post and will look up your book rec. I think you well represent my own theological perspective.

 

Angela, your church switch is interesting, given you started the "Dark Side" social group! Good post.

 

I think we might all agree that calling ourselves "Reformed" stems predominantly from a certain view on the sovereignty of God. Okay, that's oversimplifying it, but to me that is the point that goes directly to the message and meaning of the Gospel. The other issues - eschatology, baptism, etc - while important, are not the prime reason I would say I am in the Reformed camp (or have at least a foot in there!). I appreciate all the good discussion and the willingness of all to study up and understand in what we believe. That is refreshing in today's general culture.

[angela in ohio]

Angela, your church switch is interesting, given you started the "Dark Side" social group! Good post.

 

So are you coming down on the Reformed Baptists aren't really Reformed side? ;) :D

 

I'm actually kidding. Our beliefs haven't changed any, we just needed to find a church in our new town, and this is the closest (both literally and theologically.)

[AuntieM]

So are you coming down on the Reformed Baptists aren't really Reformed side? ;) :D

 

I'm actually kidding. Our beliefs haven't changed any, we just needed to find a church in our new town, and this is the closest (both literally and theologically.)

 

Ha! Actually, I am glad to see that we can find church homes in various places. Hope you will be happy and satisfied in your new place.

[redheadeddaughter]

I find what you have to say very interesting.

 

But don't other chrisitan author's (not reformed) believe God has a purpose and a plan for each and every nation and person in history?

 

:)

 

I am getting back to this awfully late... but you are right, of course.

 

I was far too general and I don't know what I was thinking with all those bold letters! I should hope that all Christians do believe this to be true. I don't think that is the case anymore, sadly. Quite of few pastors of great churches I have attended actually believe God's purpose is changeable, does not really apply to the unsaved, and that God simply does not have plans for nations as a whole. Only individuals. And that we are all floating on the sea of life until we decide (apart from God) that we want to be more righteous. And then, of course, God has a plan for us. Or (I've heard this one alot) maybe God has a plan B for those who might convert later and then he implements that plan. But that doesn't jive with my view of who God is: that He makes a plan and sticks to it. The idea the God has a plan (good or not) for those who are saved and otherwise is also a bit controversial. The whole, vessels of wrath, created for destruction, argument. Not pretty, but hard to refute, in my experience, without some pretty creative interpretations. I'm still struggling with it myself.