Reformed Christians, especially if you're specifically RCUS...

[Julie in CA]

Are your children required to memorize the Heidelberg Catechism?

[ScoutTN]

We're PCA. Our kids are learning the First Catechsim from Great Commission now and will do the WSC when they are about in 6th grade.

 

Our church doesn't require memorizing the whole of either, but does teach both and encourage parents to teach at home.

 

My church when I was a college student used HC #1 as an affirmation of faith in the worship service and I loved it!

[Julie in CA]

The catechism is a great teaching tool, but I have questions about how it is used in my denomination. It's actually kind of an issue for me, and my dh and I are in disagreement over this. I'd like to believe as he does, but I'm having trouble understanding his (and our church's) perspective. I'm hoping someone can come along and explain it in a way I can understand, without assuming I'm in rebellion....:001_huh:

 

Did you grow up in a Reformed church?

[ecj98]

We go to an OPC church.

 

My children are currently memorizing the First Catechism and will do the Shorter Catechism after that. I memorized both (well almost all of it) as a child as well.

 

DH grew up in a URC church and memorized the Heidelberg catechism when he was growing up.

[Julie in CA]

We go to an OPC church.

 

My children are currently memorizing the First Catechism and will do the Shorter Catechism after that. I memorized both (well almost all of it) as a child as well.

 

DH grew up in a URC church and memorized the Heidelberg catechism when he was growing up.

In our church, kids from 7th grade & up go to confirmation class during Sunday school time. The confirmation process requires that the kids:

 

*Complete a course in church history

*Go through memorization of the Heidelberg questions & answers 3 times

*Write an essay including their testimony & beliefs & submit that to the elders

*Recite the entire Heidelberg from memory before the elders and complete an interview

 

After these things are completed, the kids are eligible to become members of the church, and participate in Lord's Supper.

 

If I write my hesitations about this here, will you promise not to hold it against me? :tongue_smilie: When I ask for clarification about this there seems to be something of a knee-jerk reaction whereupon I'm viewed as somehow not-Reformed-enough...:confused:

 

{Deep breath} Okay...I have a problem with the fact that my teens have a requirement to *memorize* the catechism (which, even though based directly on God's Word, is still the *words of man*), but there is absolutely no requirement that they memorize any portion at all of Scripture. I am not *in any way* against the use of the catechism, I'm just...surprised that such a high value is placed on the catechism, over God's infallible, inerrant Word. My dh has emphasized to me that, "the catechism *is totally based on God's Word*". I agree that it's a valuable tool, but it appears that the priority really is placed upon the catechism instead of the actual Scripture as God gave it to us.

 

Another thing I have trouble understanding is this: While I believe in educating people about the faith before allowing them to take communion, it also feels like we've instituted a lot of requirements that are not specifically called for in Scripture. {Whispering here...} Are we Pharisees? What about those kids who are just Never. Going. To. Be. Able. To. Do. It. Does that mean that their faith is less? -Not worthy of taking communion? When I ask about this, I'm told that "we encourage them to do their best, and we help them through the process". What this means in reality is that my slightly learning disabled son is going through the process, isn't really succeeding, but is being pushed through. Is the process of beating his head against a wall because it's clear he's not measuring up to the others really a good thing? Is it going to build his faith, or tear it down? He understands his faith very well, and very thoroughly, but memorizing? It's not happening, no matter how hard he might try. I don't even love it for my other kids, who are perfectly capable of fulfilling the requirements, because once you complete such stringent requirements, who *wouldn't* go through with their confession of faith? There seems to be a lack of real choice in the process. I want my dc to be well educated in their faith--to know what they're agreeing to, but...I also want them to make not only an educated claim, but a real, stong, personal, claim of their faith, not just complete the requirements and have the automatic next step be membership & communion.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I love the catechism, and I have no desire to rebel, or "buck the system", but I'm having this inward struggle with understanding and accepting our use of the catechism vs. Scripture, and the process. Can anyone make me understand where I'm thinking wrongly about this? I'd dearly love to be at peace & in agreement with dh and our church...

[OnTheBrink]

I'm not of any denomination, but my church leans towards Calvinism, though not wholly. Anyway, I think your points are valid and I'd agree with your issues.

 

FWIW. :001_smile:

[KnitWit]

We are also OPC.

 

I think I would kind of feel as you do, if it were such a *requirement*.

 

I was not raised in the reformed church. I was raised Southern Baptist. I had the same thoughts about the catechism as you did. I viewed it as *extra biblical*. When we joined the OPC as part of a church plant, the first thing we all did was go through the WCF and the catechism, including all the proof texts. That was SO helpful for me because NOW I view it differently. I view the catechism as a way of organizing groups of verses into a concise way to state what I believe. THAT is how we approach teaching the catechism and confession of faith to our children...as *this is what we believe*...and we INCLUDE all the scripture.

 

I don't know if that helps or not.

[Julie in CA]

When we joined the OPC as part of a church plant, the first thing we all did was go through the WCF and the catechism, including all the proof texts. That was SO helpful for me because NOW I view it differently. I view the catechism as a way of organizing groups of verses into a concise way to state what I believe.

I *love* the catechism for that, especially when the stress is placed on the proof text. That's part of my problem. We're not using it quite that way, *and* we're requiring full memorization for membership and communion, pretty much to the exclusion of the actual perfect Word of God.

[Jugglin'5]

We are Reformed and we encourage memorizing both the Westminster Shorter and the Heidelberg. I think the requirements you have stated for first communion sound excessive (especially since we are paedocom. in our church:tongue_smilie:), BUT if my dh felt strongly about it I would go ahead and comply. It was a pretty common thing to require in years past. I would just make sure they are memorizing Scripture, too.

[Julie in CA]

BUT if my dh felt strongly about it I would go ahead and comply.

I am absolutely complying with my dh's leadership, but there are very, very few issues where submission to his leadership is difficult. This is one of the few. :sad: I'd love to be able to adjust my viewpoint if possible, so thought I'd ask here. We're not afraid of the tough questions in this forum! :tongue_smilie:

[ScoutTN]

I agree with that the requirements listed above for admission to the Lord's Supper are excessive. And go beyond the Scripture. Though I'm sure the intention is good - to guard children from false assurance.

 

But it seems to me that they are usurping the role of the Holy Spirit a bit. We know that the visible church will always have both mixture (believers and unbelievers) and error (in doctrine and/or practice) in it until Jesus comes back. We also know the promises to believing parents and the way God keeps His people. (John 12:28, Acts 2:39, Philippians 1:6). We teach and train our children, we pray and we raise them in community with other believers and expect God to work, but the rest is up to God. We have to walk by faith. God is in control and igbok.

 

Seems to me that the witness of Scripture is that one should be able to ""examine himself" and "discern the body" (1Co.12).

 

Our church understands this to mean one should be able to repent of sin and trust in Christ, to understand the basics of what the Table is/is not and to make a public profession of faith. And that even younger children are able to do this - in an age appropriate, but authentic way. Our Session requires that the child - of his or her own volition - meet with an elder or pastor to give a testimony and then make a public profession of faith in a worship service (taking the vows) before they participate in the Lord's Supper. (Though they do make exceptions for those parents with a paedocommunion view.)

We have an "understanding the church" class taught by pastors for school age children and their parents once a year, but it is not required to be admitted to the LS. Then we have a WSC Sunday school class for the 6th graders so that they can revisit these things again at the traditional age of 12 and hopefully "own" their beliefs even more deeply, but again it is not tied to admission to the Table.

 

So our process is not really very "strict" and most children in our church are admitted to communing membership and the Lord's Supper somewhere between the ages of 5 and 15. Are they all actually Christians? Probably not. Would a more rigorous process make them be. No. Though it could discourage and dishearten some!

 

I agree that the catechism is a great teaching tool, but should not replace Scripture in study and memory work.

 

I feel for you in trying to submit to your DH and yet not be going against your own conscience! Is he willing to study the issue with you and pray about it or is he dug in and immovable? Is he focused on the authority of the church and/or tradition or on the theological issues involved? Are you concerned that your kids won't go through the process well, yet are in fact Christians?

 

I grew up Episcopalian and got my reformed theology in college and came to love the catechism in grad school. I have been in three reformed churches (all PCA, all very different!) and a reformed seminary and this issue is one that never goes away! Personally, I can go with the paedocommunion position or one like my current church holds. I have a hard time with the 12 and older with lots of requirements, now though I used to be there and firmly so. 20 years of children's ministry convinced me otherwise.

 

One book I have found to be very helpful in considering this whole area is Spiritual Birthline by Stephen Smallman. I really commend it to you.

 

I know that there are widely varying views on this even in the tiny world of reformed churches! I don't think that my local church teaches parents well in this area or that my denomination's official position is well thought out or effective. Very frustrating.

 

Not sure any of this helps... I'll pray for you to find a way that you can all be content with! And that is genuinely helpful spiritually for your kids!

[Shelly in the Country]

Another thing I have trouble understanding is this: While I believe in educating people about the faith before allowing them to take communion, it also feels like we've instituted a lot of requirements that are not specifically called for in Scripture.

 

:iagree: I am Reformed (technically a member of the PCA, though we are now searching for a new church home closer to where we live....no PCA churches around unfortunately). I did not grow up Reformed. We do catechise our children using the kiddified First Catechism from Great Commission Publications. I would not like the idea of them having to memorize it in order to participate in communion. The PCA doesn't require this...just a statement of faith basically. The elders quizzed my kids on what they believed to see that they were Believers.

 

I understand your concerns, but as others (and you, yourself) have already said, I'd abide by my dh's leadership in these things.

[Julie in CA]

We do catechise our children using the kiddified First Catechism from Great Commission Publications.

I used that one during first part of our homeschooling, when ds was preschool-age, and it's one of my most cherished homeschool experiences/memories!:001_smile:

[mommaduck]

No longer in a Reformed church, but I will say that from my experience what they are doing is excessive. There is a movement of those that are trying to be "ultra Reformed". This sounds like one of those things. We catechized our children, but there is no way I would expect them to answer the Heidelberg 3 TIMES! perfectly...heavens, I didn't even place that on myself! (though better the Heidelberg than the WCF LOL!)

[Delighted3]

We have been members of 2 different RCUS churches and while the kids do study the catechism and the goal is for them to memorize as much of it as possible, it sounds like your church is very legalistic about it. Before becoming members of the church, the youth do meet with the elders for a question and answer time, but it is more of a personal statement of faith than an examination and they don't have to recite the heidelberg.

 

If this is what your husband wants, I guess you could use the perspective that memorizing it will not hurt your children and they will have the knowledge the rest of their lives. How old are your kids? How much time do they have? In the 2 churches we have been a part of, the kids have had 4-5 years of studying the catechism before becoming church members and during that time, they had memory work every week. Speaking from experience with my 2 grown children who went through 6 years of cathechism, they can still answer most of the questions from memory if asked and they were never examined in the way you are talking about.

HTH,

Joy

[Christy B]

. . . it also feels like we've instituted a lot of requirements that are not specifically called for in Scripture.

 

. . . Please don't misunderstand me, I love the catechism, and I have no desire to rebel, or "buck the system", but I'm having this inward struggle with understanding and accepting our use of the catechism vs. Scripture, and the process. Can anyone make me understand where I'm thinking wrongly about this? I'd dearly love to be at peace & in agreement with dh and our church...

 

Sorry, I can't help you understand where you're thinking wrongly, because I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

I was raised Reformed; I was catechized and studied Berkhof and the whole nine yards, and on a theology test, I could probably hold my own with many seminary students.

 

Somewhere in the midst of all of that, I never -- NEVER -- understood that God loved me. That He really and truly forgave me of my sins. That the word "grace" meant more than "undeserved".

 

I agree -- there's nothing wrong with catechism. But I'm living proof that you can get it all just right and still miss the whole point, really.

[HayesW]

I was raised in the PCA church.

 

I am now just a Christian.

 

I am with you. I think that if something is to be memorized, then GOD's word is the way to go. Though founded in a scriptural basis, the chatecism is a construct of man.

[happi duck]

Sorry, I can't help you understand where you're thinking wrongly, because I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

I was raised Reformed; I was catechized and studied Berkhof and the whole nine yards, and on a theology test, I could probably hold my own with many seminary students.

 

Somewhere in the midst of all of that, I never -- NEVER -- understood that God loved me. That He really and truly forgave me of my sins. That the word "grace" meant more than "undeserved".

 

I agree -- there's nothing wrong with catechism. But I'm living proof that you can get it all just right and still miss the whole point, really.

 

I have loved ones who could have made this same statement.

 

 

I am with you. I think that if something is to be memorized, then GOD's word is the way to go. Though founded in a scriptural basis, the chatecism is a construct of man.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[michelle l]

Somewhere in the midst of all of that, I never -- NEVER -- understood that God loved me. That He really and truly forgave me of my sins. That the word "grace" meant more than "undeserved".

 

 

Mmmmm....and don't you think that grieves the heart of God? That he poured out his love on us only to once again have his acceptance of us twisted into a series of rules and regulations?

 

What must we do? Believe in our heart and confess with our mouth. How are we saved? By grace, through faith. And who does the kingdom belong to? Those who come like little children. (I imagine their unabashed joy at simply being in his presence...their complete, innocent trust)

 

I agree that the catechism is a wonderful teaching tool, but like others I also think it is being entirely over emphasized, likely to the detriment of those young hearts. :confused1:

 

This is my Refomed church. L O V E it.

http://theriver.info/#/about-us/who-we-are

 

P.S. that's me sitting on the stool .... didn't realize I was on there...kinda fun I guess

Edited April 29, 2010 by michelle l

[Julie in CA]

Y'all are helping me feel better about not being *way out of line* in my thinking, but I've gotta say--you're not helping me much with seeing my dh's position on this! :001_huh:

 

Either way, regardless of what I "feel" about it, my actions will remain the same:

Try to help my dc through the process even though I feel it may be wrong.

Reinforce the value of Scripture over the catechism, while maintaining the catechism as the useful tool it is.

Search for real signs of faith as my children go through the automatic process, and put on the brakes for any dc who might mistakenly take the next step without truly personalizing/internalizing their faith along the way.

Comply with my dh's leadership and continue on in spite of whatever personal reservations I may have.

Pray that the Lord will forgive us if we are indeed misusing the catechism and stressing it above His Holy Word, and pray that He will change my heart & viewpoint if I'm thinking wrongly about this.

 

In the meantime, if anyone else can adequately explain and defend the process to me, that'd be good too!

[mommaduck]

 

This is my Refomed church. L O V E it.

http://theriver.info/#/about-us/who-we-are

 

 

 

Who are they connected with...there was nothing on the website that I could find that stated such (I had trouble reading the site anyhow due to the theme, so I may have missed it).

[michelle l]

Third try here -- server busy. Just can't type it all out again!:blink: We're part of the Reformed Church in America.

[Vanna]

I did not grow up Reformed. We do catechise our children using the kiddified First Catechism from Great Commission Publications...

 

I am Reformed Baptist. We also use this catechism. As the children grow older, I will ask hubby what catechism he'd like us to move onto.

 

Sorry, no advice (because we don't have such requirements as memorization of the catechism). Just wanted to chime in. :blush:

[Karen FL]

Julie,

I agree with you but I would just go along with it. It's a minor and not a major. Some ladies would be oh so happy for their dh(s) to just be attending church. It sounds frustrating and aggravating but I would just go along with it. I suppose you've told your dh your point of view. I would just tell him how I felt about it and leave it at that.

I asked our children to recite some scriptures to our assistant pastor recently. He asked me if they were memorizing catechism Q & As too. I told him we used to work on that but we had to drop it. I explained to him that I was very uncomfortable that we were not doing any scripture memory so I dropped catechism.

He looked disappointed but there was really nothing he could say in opposition to my catechism dropout confession. :)

I didn't tell him this but it works out that I am the one that does Bible reading with the children every day. If I did Bible reading PLUS scripture memory PLUS catechism it would just be impossible for us to get to the rest of the day. That's just the way it works out. I feel at peace about it.

 

~Karen~

[KnitWit]

Julie,

 

I personally think sometimes we can have such good intentions, we go a little too far in zealousness. That is what it kind of sounds like to me. It sounds to me like kind of a knee jerk reaction to kids who grow up in the church and then reach adulthood having no idea what they believe or why. Also, it *seems* like they are making an effort to *guard the table* so to speak. I think it's too much, but the converse is what I grew up with, kids making profession of faith, taking the Lord's supper....then a few years later, making ANOTHER profession of faith....and then again.....kwim? Again, a possible knee jerk reaction from one extreme to another.

 

I have a hard time encouraging you to just *go with it* because *I* would have reservations about my children finding their security in their *knowledge* and in having *jumped through the hoops* and *checked off the list* and not in the Lord and having worked through this on their own. I realize there are different views on communion, but I believe it is for after a profession of faith is made. In *that* context, I have a problem with what you are presenting because it's almost like if they don't come to the Lord on their own before they are in 7th grade, then by golly they will be presented to Him like a big herd of sheep. That is dangerous to me!!

 

I'm sorry. I feel like what I just said is not helpful. Have you said to your husband EXACTLY what you have shared here? Does he not validate your concerns? I think they are real.

[Julie in CA]

I asked our children to recite some scriptures to our assistant pastor recently. He asked me if they were memorizing catechism Q & As too. I told him we used to work on that but we had to drop it. I explained to him that I was very uncomfortable that we were not doing any scripture memory so I dropped catechism.

He looked disappointed but there was really nothing he could say in opposition to my catechism dropout confession. :)

 

I asked {rather timidly} a few years ago if it would be possible for my dc to memorize the Scriptures behind the catechism, rather than memorizing the catechism itself. I was told very clearly that parents that did that would be subject to church discipline. :eek:

 

They did, however, mention that if I wished them to, my children could certainly memorize all of the Heidelberg questions and answers, as well as all of the verses, if I wished to do that. :001_huh: Uh, no....just how much memorization is enough? As you mentioned in your reply, I can only do so much.

[KnitWit]

I asked {rather timidly} a few years ago if it would be possible for my dc to memorize the Scriptures behind the catechism, rather than memorizing the catechism itself. I was told very clearly that parents that did that would be subject to church discipline. :eek:

 

.

 

 

WHAT???? Oh my.

[anewday]

Are your children required to memorize the Heidelberg Catechism?

 

Our best friends have been at an RCUS for the past few years and their daughter had to go through 3 years of catechism class and then confirmation. I don't know which catechism though.

[Karen FL]

{{I asked {rather timidly} a few years ago if it would be possible for my dc to memorize the Scriptures behind the catechism, rather than memorizing the catechism itself. I was told very clearly that parents that did that would be subject to church discipline.}}

 

Gasp. Hmmmmmm. Errrrr. Alrighty then.

 

I do not want to say anything farther lest I sin against our heavenly Father and cause unnnecessary dissension in the Body of Christ.

 

I still would follow my husband's wishes as we know that is certainly biblical.

[Julie in CA]

I still would follow my husband's wishes as we know that is certainly biblical.

Oh yes, I made that decision long ago. :001_smile:

My question has never been, "should I submit?", but rather, a question of how to reconcile my internal struggle. Occasionally, my frustration blooms anew, but I am careful to keep the turmoil private.

[Karen FL]

Ahhh, internal struggle. Rest in these words fr Psa. 37:3-7

3*Trust in the Lord, and do good;

dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.*

4*Delight yourself in the Lord,

and he will give you the desires of your heart."

5*Commit your way to the Lord;

trust in him, and he will act.

6*He will bring forth your righteousness as the light,

and your justice as the noonday.

7*Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him;

fret not yourself over the one who prospers in his way,

over the man who carries out evil devices!"

 

Wait on Him and He will ensure that you will gain every blessing He waNts you to get froM

this trial.

 

In Christ,

Karen

Edited April 30, 2010 by Karen FL
Repetitive.

[michelle l]

I asked {rather timidly} a few years ago if it would be possible for my dc to memorize the Scriptures behind the catechism, rather than memorizing the catechism itself. I was told very clearly that parents that did that would be subject to church discipline. :eek:

 

 

 

:( Ohhhh...that's so sad. At the risk of being more bold than perhaps I should, I'll come right out and say that is a religious spirit, (attitude) and it is destructive. I think you were absolutely right in using the word "pharisee". This is not to say that the leadership is not well-intentioned, or that they are not fervent in their desire to serve God. It's just that their aim is off and their efforts are misplaced. They themselves are trapped in this form of legalism, and are leading others into it. In Mark 15:14, Jesus calls the pharisees "blind guides" and warns about following them. To me, it sounds like the Holy Spirit is whispering to you that there is more to following Christ than this, and I would urge you to listen to that whisper. In my mind the best that could happen is that your children will be very knowledgable about the Reformed theology. That's not a bad thing at all! :) The worst that could happen is that they could translate relationship with Christ into obedience to and knowledge of church doctrine, and trade relationship for right behavior, not knowing the joy and wonder of walking with him under grace...the intimacy and fellowship that is promised to them as believers. (of course, it sounds like they are seeing this in your home : ) )

 

So, how to do that, listen to that whisper, in a way that honors your husband? That's hard, isn't it, and it's obvious that you really do desire to honor him. (and I'm guessing you also want to handle it in a way that does not cause dissention in the church). And you know, I'm confident that the same Spirit that is stirring your heart now will also enable you do this well.

 

This is sort of interesting. In the book Captivating, John and Stace Eldgredge talk about the original words used to describe Eve as being an ezer kenegdo. Those are the words usually translated as "helper" or "helpmeet". But, they go on to say that the word ezer "is used only twenty other places in the entire Old Testament. And in every other instance the person being described is God himself, when you need him to come through for you desperately.....Most of the the contexts are life and death, by the way, and God is your only hope. Your ezer. If he is not there beside you...you are dead. A better translation therefore of ezer would be "lifesaver". Kenegdo means alongside, or opposite to, a counterpart."

 

I think this adds a really interesting dynamic as we look at biblical submission and what it means to honor and really love our husbands. Yes, they need to walk in that position of leadership they were created for...but women also need to fully embrace their importance in the whole senario. As much as we need our men and are blessed when they lead well, our husbands really do need us to walk in our design too. They need us.

 

So...I don't know. Was that too much? I'll be praying for you. :)

Edited April 30, 2010 by michelle l

[Vanna]

:( Ohhhh...that's so sad. At the risk of being more bold than perhaps I should, I'll come right out and say that is a religious spirit, (attitude) and it is destructive. I think you were absolutely right in using the word "pharisee". This is not to say that the leadership is not well-intentioned, or that they are not fervent in their desire to serve God. It's just that their aim is off and their efforts are misplaced. They themselves are trapped in this form of legalism, and are leading others into it. In Mark 15:14, Jesus calls the pharisees "blind guides" and warns about following them. To me, it sounds like the Holy Spirit is whispering to you that there is more to following Christ than this, and I would urge you to listen to that whisper. In my mind the best that could happen is that your children will be very knowledgable about the Reformed theology. That's not a bad thing at all! :) The worst that could happen is that they could translate relationship with Christ into obedience to and knowledge of church doctrine, and trade relationship for right behavior, not knowing the joy and wonder of walking with him under grace...the intimacy and fellowship that is promised to them as believers. (of course, it sounds like they are seeing this in your home : ) )

 

So, how to do that, listen to that whisper, in a way that honors your husband? That's hard, isn't it, and it's obvious that you really do desire to honor him. (and I'm guessing you also want to handle it in a way that does not cause dissention in the church). And you know, I'm confident that the same Spirit that is stirring your heart now will also enable you do this well.

 

This is sort of interesting. In the book Captivating, John and Stace Eldgredge talk about the original words used to describe Eve as being an ezer kenegdo. Those are the words usually translated as "helper" or "helpmeet". But, they go on to say that the word ezer "is used only twenty other places in the entire Old Testament. And in every other instance the person being described is God himself, when you need him to come through for you desperately.....Most of the the contexts are life and death, by the way, and God is your only hope. Your ezer. If he is not there beside you...you are dead. A better translation therefore of ezer would be "lifesaver". Kenegdo means alongside, or opposite to, a counterpart."

 

I think this adds a really interesting dynamic as we look at biblical submission and what it means to honor and really love our husbands. Yes, they need to walk in that position of leadership they were created for...but women also need to fully embrace their importance in the whole senario. As much as we need our men and are blessed when they lead well, our husbands really do need us to walk in our design too. They need us.

 

So...I don't know. Was that too much? I'll be praying for you. :)

 

(Emphasis added by me in bold) :iagree: (good post, Michele)

[LND1218]

We have a similar situation at our church. They have requirements for taking communion that I believe are extra Biblical. I don't have a problem with the requirements themselves just that they are requirements. KWIM?

 

Dh's POV was that choice this church (we did consider leaving) and that out of respect for the leadership of the church we'd abide by their requirements.

 

Have you talked to dh about whether or not he agrees? My dh wanted to go along with it even though he didn't agree. He did that out of respect and submission to the church. But we also told our children what we were doing and why. We felt it was important that they know the requirements weren't in the Bible. We also felt they needed to see us submit to authority when we didn't agree. And we felt they needed to understand the process that goes into deciding when to follow when you disagree and when to not to. We talked about when things like that are a signal to leave.

 

Sorry I can't help you other than to say I have been there too!

[InHisGrip]

Oh yes, I made that decision long ago. :001_smile:

My question has never been, "should I submit?", but rather, a question of how to reconcile my internal struggle. Occasionally, my frustration blooms anew, but I am careful to keep the turmoil private.

 

I tried to respond to this earlier and thought I did, but don't see it now.....anyways, 1 Peter 3:6 and the verses preceding it really help me in these situations. Verse 6b "...you are her daughters if you do not give way to fear." I had no idea what that meant the first few times I read it when I was a new Christian (I guess that was before I really committed to submitting to my dh), but now I get it. There is some major fear temptation when we submit on some issues. I think I can see that this is the case with you. I would feel exactly the same way you do.

 

Out of all the verses in the Bible that speak to me practically - this is #1. Really. He knew that we were going to struggle with that fear when our husbands lead differently than what we'd choose and He tells us not to fear. Just trust. So, I'm praying that God will bring that peace to you as you release this to Him and trust Him in this situation (and the outcome of it). I would keep praying that God would "change the heart of the king" in this matter, but if He chooses not to, I know that He'll bring your heart into peace and rest.

[Terabith]

(Am I the only one who thinks maybe you shouldn't be keeping your turmoil private?) I mean, if he knew how much this bothered you, maybe it would create a more productive dialogue. And perhaps he has not considered some of the points you're making.

 

And subject to church discipline for memorizing Scripture instead??? That is just nuts. Really, really over the top.

[EmeraldGirl]

What role does your husband play in leading you and your children spiritually? Does he take the responsibility to also instruct/teach/review the catechism with you and the children, and then also model by memorizing too (or at least trying)?

 

We are in a PCA church; been in OPC, HRC, (alphabet soup, I know). I did not grow up reformed or even in a Bible-teaching church. Was opposed to the catechism until the Lord showed me the beauty of the systematic instruction of it. Then I grew to appreciate it deeply for its value. It has helped me in understanding the faith and in reading the scriptures. But Godly, Christ-centered preaching actually benefits me the most (I am sure it is a work of the Holy Spirit working this love in me).

 

We are teaching our littles the Younger Catechism for Children and in 16 months they have "memorized" it and are very excited. We also memorized whole portions/chapters of scripture next to it, but not related; that will come when we do the Shorter, which my older boys "memorized" years ago. ("memorized" is a loose term as we encourage the memory part, but we do help them along with smiles and words, and don't want it to be this heavy burden but a joy and privilege). I go over things in the mornings, and hubby goes over it in the evenings once a week on the ones we are currently working on. He does the Bible reading and explaining in the evenings.

 

I say all that to say, while it is a great tool to teach the faith in an orderly way, in no way do I believe it will change the heart. I tell my children that we "hide God's word in our heart that we might not sin against Him." Thus, one of the reasons we memorize. At this point, this is what they understand.

 

Anyway, got waaayy off track. My question really is: As the head of the home and his having to stand before the Lord one day, is your husband leading this effort, or are you by submitting to his request? Nothing wrong with the submission part at all. Simply wondering what role he has in all of this and how the church holds him responsible too as the head.

 

Sometimes we like to put burdens on others that we ourselves cannot accomplish.

 

BTW, we went thru the Heidelburg in a year with our older boys too. Really did enjoy it, but did not memorize. Though, I would like to memorize #1 with my littles as it does give me a great peace and I think it is beautifully written and expressed.

 

Praying the Lord gives you peace as you walk this part of the journey.