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Question for cow people: we are thinking about buying a dairy cow (m)


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and don't really know what we are doing :confused:

 

If we buy one that is expecting from a local dairy, will it be already full of hormones and antibiotics? Will it get 'cleaned out' over time as we feed it naturally?

 

Should we buy a younger cow and get to know her well and vice versa before we breed her?

 

Where else do we look for one to buy? I'm not sure where to look for a dairy cow.

 

:( So many questions!!

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Yes, it is a very scary decision.

 

We have been thinking about goats too, but like you I would rather have a cow. I am very interested in making butter and cheese.

 

You may be interested in the following article--it is about once-a-day milking. Less work, less volume of milk...

 

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/lewis99.html

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How funny! We were just talking about this in our homeschool mom's group the other night! The consences was that a milk cow would be a lot of work. You need to be home at the same time every day and every night. No going out for supper or a weekend away without someone coming and milking the cow. If you visit friends on Sunday afternoon, you have to be home in time to milk the cow, etc. My mom also tells stories of why she doesn't drink milk anymore - when you milk by hand flies and bugs get into the milk and you strain them out. Ew! Most places that milk (even farms where you purchase raw milk) use milkers which seem more sanitary. Anyway, there are some bad points!!! Not what you were looking for! I'm sorry, it was just that we discussed this and it was on my mind. :) I hope that you get the answers for which you are looking.

 

Kathy

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Or if you have someone home every day, morning and night.

 

Do you have any idea how much one cow can produce in one day? I think the average is around 6 gallons per day--some breeds give more than others.

 

Raising a steer for meat is much easier.

 

Depending upon your state laws, you might be able to buy a cow in someone's herd and then get milk from them--rather like they are paying you "rent" on the cow with milk. Be sure you choose your farmer carefully--one whose bacteria count is always and consistently low. Their milk is tested when the milk is brought into the dairy, so they should have papers on this.

 

The farmer should have records on what has been given to each cow as far as antibiotics or hormones.

 

Dairy cows are worked with every day, so they are easier to handle than beef cows, so an older one might be just fine. Beef cows have a different attitude towards life, too. LOL! I'm not a dairy person, though. I can't answer all your Q's. Do you have anyone you know who has a dairy farm that you can talk to and get some info? Would you milk by hand? Have you seen it done? It is possible you will not be interested in drinking the milk you've milked by hand... hard to keep it clean.

 

Will you pasteurize? Have you ever tried making cheese before? I found it harder than it looked. Cottage cheese and yogurt were about the only things I made with my cream--other than cream puffs. :-) Good luck!

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Good friends have a dairy cow. It's a lot of work. They only milk once a day but it still requires a big commitment. They milk by hand and are very careful about cleanliness. I get milk from them which is great but I'm not sure I'd do it myself.

 

If I was picking a cow (having listened to them) I'd look for a good temperment - a family cow.

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Dh bought a couple of milk cows at a dairy sale. Typically at a dairy sale, the best cow comes out first. I have no idea why. Dh bought the first cow out on the floor and she was wonderful. She was a Jersey with big doe eyes and a sweet disposition. She gave us more milk than seven people could keep up with. At first we pastuerized our milk, then just strained it and drank it. It was great. Cream for our coffee. Delicious milk. Our cats all got fat as pigs.

 

I learned how to make cottage cheese and hard cheese. The cottage cheese was always good, and the hard cheese was either so good we sat there and ate until it was all gone, or so bad that the dogs wouldn't touch it.

 

Dh milked Rachel Lynne and ds milked his cow, Bossy. I was in charge of the goat, Kayla. She was a goof ball. She thought I was her baby and was always trying to organize me. When I'd come out to milk her she'd run over to our stock trailer and hop up on the side so that I didn't have to lean over.

Dh would watch and wish he could teach Rachel Lynne how to do that. I sold the goat milk to a lady who had a baby with allergies.

 

Dairy cows and beef cows are two different animals. Dairy cows are much more delicate, which we sadly found out. Rachel got sick, we couldn't figure out why, and began to decline. Nothing we could do helped. Now keep in mind we have hundreds of beef cattle, and they need attention too, but Rachel might as well have been an alien animal for all the help we were able to give her, vet was stumped too. The day she died Bossy came and stood by her side for hours until she was gone.

 

As much as we enjoyed the bossies, I never want to milk anything again. Too much time and effort involved. No freedom. Lots of work.

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Thanks, Jean, for your note and for suggesting things for me to think about. You helped me think about some things. Here are some of our thoughts. Let me know what you think.

 

We are home most of the time, so that shouldn't be a problem. We live in the country and keep our town commitments very small. (We and the kids prefer to be home.) And we are also interested in once-a-day milking, which would give us less milk and less of a time commitment. The idea is you separate the calf from the mother overnight, milk in the morning, and then let the calf nurse the rest of the day. This requires some manuvering, but it seems like a workable plan.

 

I've never made cheese or butter! But I really, really, really, really, want to. I know I'll have lots of failures with the cheese at first, but I'm willing to give it my best. Butter seems much easier to make. My friend just made it in the blender! We have some friends who were milking, so my husband has seen it up close, and my dd tried it. We are expecting very sore hands for awhile :( Dh LOVED the fresh milk.

 

As for the extra milk, here are my thoughts:

 

1. Hopefully, with once-a-day milking the milk that we have will be less than 6 gallons, although that is still a lot!

 

2. We are planning on raising a hog this summer for fall/winter slaughter, and evidently feeding the hog the extra milk is a good idea.

 

3. If I can make cheese and butter, I would like to freeze quite a bit of it for use when the cow is dry. The same would go for the milk.

 

I know cleanliness is a problem, and we will have to work through that. But I still think that I prefer my own dirt in my milk than the filth of commercial dairys, lol. There is so much controversy surrounding pasteurization (did I spell that right?). My thoughts right now are that I will start off by pasteurizing, because I am a germ freak (lol). I may change my mind later.

 

Probably the bottom line is that dh and I are trying to be a little more self-sufficient, and we desperately want our children to learn these skills. We've done just a little so far--we raise chickens and butcher them ourselves and enjoy their eggs. We have ducks and I cook with their eggs. We put in a garden each year. Ds 13 has learned to butcher a chicken, skin a squirrel, clean fish, etc. Dd7 is learning to make bread with me, learning to sew. It seems to us that a next step to try is milking something and raising a hog, ha ha. I think we are willing to give it a try, and it if doesn't work then we will abandon it. But we REALLY want to do it, although the commitment is scary.

 

I appreciate your advice and wisdom. Thank you for taking the time to respond :)

 

Blessings,

Tracy in Ky

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Remudamom,

 

Wow! Thanks for your note!

 

So your family was milking TWO cows AND a goat? That is a lot of milking!

 

How did you do with keeping the milk clean? Is it just an accepted fact that stuff gets in the milk? That seems to be what I am learning--that it is just the way it goes. Does pasterizing clean up the bacteria that may be left from the residue?

 

Where did you buy your cheese press? I have found one that sells for $65 dollars; does that sound reasonable to you?

 

Sorry to bombard you with questions :o

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Remudamom,

 

Wow! Thanks for your note!

 

So your family was milking TWO cows AND a goat? That is a lot of milking!

 

How did you do with keeping the milk clean? Is it just an accepted fact that stuff gets in the milk? That seems to be what I am learning--that it is just the way it goes. Does pasterizing clean up the bacteria that may be left from the residue?

 

Where did you buy your cheese press? I have found one that sells for $65 dollars; does that sound reasonable to you?

 

Sorry to bombard you with questions :o

 

Tracy, you are a braver woman than I am. I grew up on a farm & showed beef cattle for 10 year in 4-H, I love the city life now. My parents were great, I appreciate the experience and sometimes feel bad that I don't live near home to help out more, but I don't miss the hard days of farming at all. Now granted, beef cows ARE NOT dairy cows, but they both require a lot of work, just in different areas. Are your kids in 4-H? One thing I do remember was, we never took family vacations, it was just too hard since dad was always busy and had cattle to feed. I didn't leave Indiana until I was in high school and that was on a 4-H trip. Not that we travel a lot now, but dh's parents live in Michigan & SIL lives in Alabama, so we do get out of the state every now and then.

 

Have fun!

Kristine

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About that filth of commercial dairies thing...Have you been to many truly commercial dairies? I'd put our cleanliness up against any home dairy situation I've ever seen. We not only have rules and regulations to follow regarding cleanliness, but we have decades of experience in providing the cleanest possible environment. Even well-intentioned home dairy situations would be hard-pressed to match the cleanliness of our milking process. The cows udders are washed twice before they are milked, and the milking machines are sanitized between each cow sterilized between each milking. Our feeding area for the cows is washed down twice per day, and any manure in our milking parlor is washed away literally as it hits the ground. Because we grow a fair amount of our own feed, we know exactly what it contains, and if you're buying smaller quantities of feed, it's just not always that way. I'm writing all of this not because I'm offended by your viewpoint, but just to try and reassure you that even if you end up buying milk, it's almost certainly cleaner than what you'd produce yourself.

Also, "home most of the time" just doesn't cut it with dairy cows. Missing a milking, or even delaying a milking often means a very sick cow later on, which may be why in home situations, dairy cows seem more delicate health-wise. It's also wise to have the same person doing the milking every time, since it's very healthy for the cow to be milked out to the same point every time. There will be absolutely no flexibility about timing or being home. It's just a lot of work. I agree with others who've mentioned that you'd be better off finding a situation where you were getting the milk from a cow on a dairy, although according to my experience, the smaller dairies are less sanitary than the larger dairies. The smaller dairies in my area have definite problems maintaining a low bacteria count in the milk, though I'm not sure if that's the case everywhere.

Good luck with whatever you choose! :)

~Julie~

p.s. I just realized that I didn't mention that we are a dairy family. We milk about 1200 cows here in California. Dh's 6 brothers all have dairies in California and Washington, and between them there are small dairies, organic dairies, and larger dairies (like ours). His family has been dairy farmers back as far as anyone can remember, certainly for the last 5 generations.

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when we got to the point where we were just straining the milk it looked clean enough, so we just went with it.

 

I am woefully ignorant about what pastuerizing does....I just got sick and tired of cleaning the machine. We all survived.

 

Dh's uncle made a beautiful cheese press for us from some plans we found on the internet. It was a work of art. I threw it away. (I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I wish I had it now so I could give it to someone who could use it. What can I say, I'm a chunker, not a hoarder.)

 

We got into the whole thing because we were rabid Y2Kers. We had two huge generators, about 300 chickens,(and ducks, guineas and peafowl) dairy animals, curriculum to get everyone through high school, two wood stoves, oil lamps (that I didn't chunk), a well. It was insane. We learned so much and had a lot of fun during that year. Never again. I laugh insanely now every time I buy milk at the store.

 

I do have chickens again, but down the road at one of our farmhouses. I like them better there, they can't tear up my yard and I don't have to yell at the dogs. I do like to hear roosters in the morning though.

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We got into the whole thing because we were rabid Y2Kers. We had two huge generators, about 300 chickens,(and ducks, guineas and peafowl) dairy animals, curriculum to get everyone through high school, two wood stoves, oil lamps (that I didn't chunk), a well. It was insane. We learned so much and had a lot of fun during that year. Never again. I laugh insanely now every time I buy milk at the store.

 

 

We were thinking of getting a milk goat, but I'll be reconsidering now, having read this post. Thanks for the laugh!

 

Susan

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We have been to a huge dairy farmshttp://www.fofarms.com/place/operations.html and let me tell you, there is NOTHING unsanitary about this place. The government has very high standards, and it's amazing to watch the cows going in and out to be milked. If you have a big dairy farm that does this, it's worth taking a trip to.

 

Kristine

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Julie,

 

I have never been to a dairy and do not know what I am talking about :o Thank you for your note!

 

It sounds like your milk would be cleaner than what we could do here. But I *really* want to do it.

 

When I say that we are here most of the time, I mean pretty much 24 hours a day. The kids and I go to town infrequently--church, orthodontist, library, visiting, and grocery. That is about it. Dh does work in town. We do not take vacations. Sometimes we visit some friends in Virginia; occasionally we go on an overnight trip. Those infrequent trips would have to stop unless we found someone to milk for us when we leave. But we hardly ever leave.

We already have so many animals here that it is hard to leave; and we just like to stay home. lol.

 

I am wondering about your cows. Now that you have educated me about the cleanliness, can you help me understand something else? What about antibiotics and growth hormones? Are those routinely given to all your cows? If so, is this something I could avoid by have my own 'organic' cow?

 

These responses are so helpful. In a way they are scaring me, but I need to be aware of all that is involved before we jump in. And I definitely need to keep educating myself.

 

Thank you so much!

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Tracy,

We have 2 milking goats, and do separate them from their kids for half the day. It works very well, once you have them accustomed to it. It does take a day or three to get them all going where they're supposed to, though.

We also have a cow. She is a Dexter cow, which breed we picked because they need only about a half acre of good pasture, as opposed to 2-3 for some larger cattle, they are small and easier to manage, and they give only 1-1 1/2 gallons of milk a day. They were developed in Ireland for small family farms. A good place to learn about them is http://www.dextercattle.org/

Having said that, we chose ours as a calf, and brought her home as a bred heifer. She is our son's cow, and he worked with her until, just before she freshened, he could massage her udder and even lift her front feet. As soon as her calf hit the ground, however, she became "crazy momma cow." I've been told that some first fresheners do that, and become difficult to handle. Difficult doesn't half describe it. Once Colleen was weaned, Bess returned to her happy self. But we were never able to milk her.

I would suggest contacting Dexter people (there are some in TN and KY, listed at that website) and telling them you're looking for a family milker. They can help you find something. Or, find a local Jersey farmer and see if he has a cow he is retiring. Both of these were suggested by our vet, but, no, we wouldn't listen! :) A good friend of ours found a Jersey cow who had only 3 working teats (a no-no in a commercial dairy) and Bess (her name was also Bess; what else do you calla cow?) was gentle, sweet, and perfectly prolific.

We may have to get rid of our Bess soon. Sadly, it's because she won't get pregnant, despite several tries. She may become hamburger....

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Melody,

 

Thank you so much for your advice!

 

I have looked at Dexters, and they are my first pick. Your advice about young heifers vs. an older cow is very valuable to me. It makes sense.

 

I am interested in your dairly goats, because dh and I keep alternating between starting with a goat or starting with a cow.

 

Can I ask some questions?

 

Do you drink the milk? Is it hard to keep clean? Do you pasteurize it? Do you make cheese with it? And finally, do you make butter with it? I know making butter with goat milk is a bit trickier than with cow milk, but I do know that it can be done.

 

Oh and by the way--I told dh yesterday that if I got a cow I would name her Bessie! ha.

 

You ladies are teaching me so much!!! I am so thankful. I am going to let dh read all these replies tonight :D

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I purchased a pasteurizer at a farm sale. They work nicely since you can poor in the milk, turn it on, and walk away. Doing it on the stove takes more of your attention.

 

This is something you can do for as long as you want to--and then you can always sell Bossy to someone else who wants a house cow. :-) Just be forewarned: if you get a pleasant animal, you'll fall in love.

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Tracy,

 

There's a book called "The Family Cow" which would probably be very helpful to you. My ds works on a dairy farm -- not all dairy farmer give their cows hormones (this one doesn't), and antibiotics aren't ever given as a matter of course, but only when needed (to treat mastitis is the most common reason).

 

I can tell you you'd want a Jersey because they give the least amount of milk (and I think they have the highest butterfat content -- but the book would give you all those details).

 

HTH,

ChrisN

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Our dairy farm is not an organic dairy farm. We do use antibiotics on sick cows if we have any hope of saving their lives. After the use of antibiotics, the cows are sequestered for a certain amount of time, until the presence of the antibiotics can no longer be detected in the milk. Our milk is tested daily for bacteria count levels and presence of antibiotics or other medicines. We do not use artificial hormones at all, and we never will.

You could avoid any use of antibiotics on your cow, but it would require extreme fastidiousness about milking and cleanliness, and even then you'd also have to be willing to lose your cow if it gets sick. Occasionally it's possible to cure routine cow illnesses without meds, but for the well-being of our cows who've been so good to us, we want to help them get healthy again if they can. Personally, I'm confortable with the idea that if the test is not detecting antibiotics, then the milk is fine.

As far as pasteurization goes, our milk is all pasteurized in processing. If you promise not to tell anyone, I'll let you in on the secret that my family drinks milk straight from our tank, that has not been pasteurized or homogenized, or made lower in fat! ;) Legally, I don't think that we are even supposed to use our milk (unpasteurized) for our own family, but my dh was raised on whole, unpasteurized milk, and he thinks that he'd just curl up and die if he had to drink the store-bought milk. We've never been sick from drinking our milk, and all of my (5) children were weaned from bre*st milk straight to unpasteurized. None of us have ever been sick from drinking it unpasteurized, but then again, we test our milk every day for those bacteria counts. If for some reason it was high, we wouldn't drink the milk that day. I don't offer milk to our guests, unless I've remembered to buy some at the store for their visit.

If I were you, I'd still go for a goat as a first try. :)

~Julie~

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Congratulations on your desire to live in a more self-sufficient manner, Tracy! That's great! There are many ways to pursue that lifestyle, and I am going to echo others who are encouraging you to hold off on the dairy cow just yet. As you may know, we own and operate a dairy and I would never encourage anyone to invest in a dairy cow without first becoming a great deal more familiar with the commitment than you are at this point. I think it would be doing a disservice to your family and to the animal to launch this project without first taking some other steps in this direction. As Jean (I think?) suggested, why not go with goats just now?

 

I think people are sometimes rather fanciful when they consider having Betsy or Bossy out in the meadow. Just one cow truly is a major commitment. Take the time to pursue some other aspects of self-sufficiency first. You have nothing to lose by waiting, whereas buying a cow before you're truly ready can result in frustration and disappointment.

 

Btw, we go through at least 2 gallons of our own milk each day ~ my husband and boys always drink it raw. And of course since we treat our animals holistically, I can assure you it's very possible to raise animals without the use of antibiotics.

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Colleen and Julie,

 

You both are so helpful; thank you for the advice :)

 

I keep thinking we need to start small and break ourselves in. I have just today made contact with a man who raises dairy goats and even makes cheese. He is very friendly and very willing to teach us, AND has invited us over to just talk to us and eat goat cheese (he doesn't have any milk right now because it is winter). We are going to his house this weekend!

 

I do want to do the best thing by the animals too. Milking one goat seems like a better start.

 

Thanks so much to all of you for teaching me so much!

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Tracy,

 

There's a book called "The Family Cow" which would probably be very helpful to you. My ds works on a dairy farm -- not all dairy farmer give their cows hormones (this one doesn't), and antibiotics aren't ever given as a matter of course, but only when needed (to treat mastitis is the most common reason).

 

 

 

HTH,

ChrisN

 

This sounds like a great book! I need all the education I can get! ha ha. I wonder if there is a book called, "The Family Goat!" ha ha:D

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Tracy,

We do drink the goat milk; we have never been able to milk Bessie.

I don't pasteurize. I just didn't have the equipment or the money when we started, so we took the chance. I did drink it myself for a week, before I let my kids. I had also talked to our vet, who told me our farm was no problem, meaning, he could see how I took care of things and knew we could drink the milk raw with no problem. I don't like the flavor of store-bought goat milk, and was told that that could be from the pasteurization process. I did try a pseudo-experiment one day. I had fresh goat milk on my breakfast cereal. It was delicious. Later, I decided to make a latte using the milk. It was awful; had that off taste of the store-bought milk. I thought that maybe it was stale from sitting in the frig, so I poured a cold glass. It tasted just as good as in the morning. Some goat people, who do pasteurize, have told me I was imagining things, but, then, I must have a VERY good imagination! That stuff was rank!

You will find that people who pasteurize often think people who don't are living dangerously. Maybe we are.

I have made cheese, but no one here really likes it, except our daughter. So I make her some every so often and she's happy. Goat ice cream is to die for; very good flavor, easy to make (I have the Cuisinart freezer) and good texture.

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I have just today made contact with a man who raises dairy goats and even makes cheese. He is very friendly and very willing to teach us, AND has invited us over to just talk to us and eat goat cheese (he doesn't have any milk right now because it is winter).

 

That sounds great, Tracy! It will be so helpful to have a mentor.:)

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  • 1 year later...

 

There's one at our library called Starting With Milk Goats. I've been thinking about it. My last ditch is to get a small second fridge, start buying milk in quantity from our local family dairy, and start making yogurt/cheese/butter myself. If I do that and still want goats, the dairymen we bought our English Shepherd puppy from raise alpines and oberhasli, and I figure I'll try to buy two does from them.

 

This is a really interesting thread.

 

 

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I agree with Julie on what she has shared so far. I would just add that disease prevalence will not be as high on your place as you will only have one cow and not 1200:001_smile:. Your cow will need a friend, though, so either get two cows or a donkey to keep her company.

Pick a herd that is free of TB, Johnes, Brucella. Ask them if they have had any outbreaks of diarrhea on their place, if so look elsewhere. Ask about their vaccination status, cows need IBR, BVD and Clostridial vax. Hopefully the cow you get will already be rebred and you will have to dry her off at 305 days (gestation) so she is not milking two months before she calves, then you'll want to rebreed her again. Keep those costs in mind.

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Wow--it is so funny to see an old thread resurrected :D

 

We're already on our second milk cow! :lol:

 

(We are drying her off right now to take a break from milking. I've frozen over 90 gallons of milk to see us through for awhile! Thatsalotofmilk! ha )

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We started with a full Guernesy milk cow. However, after she calved, she died. We are raising her heifer who will be 1 year old in Sept. Izzy is very rotten and lives simply to have her chin scratched. :D

 

Next we got Sweetheart, our current milk cow. She is Jersey/Guernsey mix, and her milk is the best thing I have ever tasted in my life. We're raising her bull calf (born in March) for the freezer. Actually he is a steer now...:rolleyes:

 

Bottom line...we're tired. We got in over our heads with this little farmstead. When we reevaluated and tried to figure out what was pushing us the hardest, it was the milking. So we're taking a break from it. We'll pick it back up next spring/summer when she will hopefully calve again and go from there. We're also butchering fewer chickens this year--that has eased our work also. Dh works full time outside the home, and we just need to slow the train down a bit. :)

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My vote will always be for the beloved dairy goat... At least if she dies I'm only out a couple hundred dollars. Plus she usually has a few babies, not just one. Her gestation is shorter and there is no shortage to finding a buck for her, and I don't have to keep it. She eats FAR less and produces almost a gallon a day - about perfect for a family. Sorry, no cow here.

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We have three dairy goats (a nubian and two alpines) and a jersey, Betsy. We drink some of the goats milk, but mostly I give it to my brothers who LOVE raw goats milk.

 

I love jerseys. They are a great family cow (BTW, I also highly recommend. The Family Cow). Like you, when we decided to homestead we immediately wanted animals. Everyone advised against it, but I'm bullheaded and wanted everything NOW. It all worked out just fine. I think there's a lot to be said for on the job training. I wouldn't recommend jumping into opening up a whole dairy, lol, but having a few farm animals really is very manageable. We also have a flock of chickens and slaughter two feeder pigs twice a year.

 

The milking committment was okay with me as we're always home in the early morning and evenings, and now my kiddos can help. As far as milk production, jerseys put out much less than other dairy breeds, but can still give 4+ gallons a day. The good news is that their milk production can be decreased with less feed, until you get to the level that works for your family. About two and a half gallons a day work well for us. It gives us plenty to drink and plenty for yogurt, butter, cheese, ricotta, cream cheese, and sour cream.

 

I say go for it. You obviously are doing research and talking to people. It's not rocket science, it just takes committment and time, both of which you seem to have.

 

Good luck!!

Lisa

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