does anyone choose Singapore over MM?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I thought Ma's book pointed out how the young Chinese teachers DIDN'T know "the way", and that they learned it with practice and interaction with other math teachers.

 

I am foregoing the HIG. I read them through 2A and never used the hints and games, etc. at all. I found them to be a distraction from what I needed to do, which was to really learn the stuff, play with it, roll on my back in it and whinny, and this is what I love about the minimalist SM. It gives me a scope and sequence, and some samples, and leaves the rest up to me. I don't want explanations to read or parrot. I want to feel it in my bones, so that I can speak spontaneously about the problem of the day and we can discover the juicy details together, on our own. SM is the high point of my day (and the nickel finally drops for kiddo, it is the high point of his, too, school-wise).

:iagree:

I was that young Chinese teacher teaching my graduate school students in China how to listen, speak, read and write English without any TMs most of the time. The teachers that taught the same textbook would be grouped together and for each lesson/chapter we taught, we would discuss for two or three hours how to teach it. We explored and found other resources to support our lessons, we found grammatical points that needed to be addressed to help the students better understand the text, and we designed our own tests. Teaching prep takes a lot of time and we gather the wisdom from all colleagues to make a lesson plan and teach it well.

I am so used to this that I never like/need to use a TM, for R&S English, or SM. I can usually explain things intuitively.

I found that my American dh is not as intuitive as far as math goes. I don't understand why, but I think it is due to the different ways we were taught. For example, I can figure out MEP problems very easily but when I showed it to dh, he couldn't do the problems that seemed very intuitively easy for me and thought it was poorly written and stumbled the students too easily.

[Haiku]

Also, it was teaching the subtraction of ...for example....5

62-8= or something like that and you were suppose to subtract the 2 and come up with 60 then subtract the other 3, which made the 5???/ It was confusing.

 

Right Start does a making-the-fives thing, too. We did the lesson and promptly forgot about it because making the tens works so much better for my kids. I would imagine my kids would solve that as 62-10=52+2=54. Or 62-2=60-6=54.

 

Tara

[MeganW]

hI,

I just wanted to add to the resurrected thread.:D At the time of this thread I was using MM with my daughter and liked it. I was tired of switching around and decided that this time no matter what we were gonna stick with something. I had never tried SM because I felt like it would be too complicated. Everyone said how MM was just like it so I felt no need to bother. Well, after using MM for a while my daughter again started crying for math time. It was aweful. I felt terrible and almost decided that dd would be better of in PS because I just couldn't seem to get it right! She would look at the material and say how confused she was. I felt like a lousy teacher. Really....after trying tons of math curriculum and bombing every time.:tongue_smilie:

 

I went to our local Homeschool Cottage(a curriculum store nearby) to ask for help. My daughter was with me. Everything that the clerk recomended to us we had already bombed with....sigh:001_huh:. She also reassured me that she had a child just like that and she stuck with MUS. I looked through the math section to see if they had anything I hadn't tried. I picked up SM and looked through it. My daughter came by me because she was intrigued with the colorful cover. When she looked inside she lit up and said "Wow, what is this?" I told her it was math and she immediatly wanted to do the workbook! I bought it and have not regretted it. She still gets excited to see the cute images and does her math without tears. So far we have been using it for two month with no problems. :hurray:

 

I can agree that MM is similar to SM because of the Asian style of the teaching but....... presentation is waaayyy different. My daughter really loves to see me pull out SM. If I would pull out MM right now she would drop. I am not downing MM because I do believe it is also a solid math curriculum. I think if the graphics were different it would have made a difference. You will never find a curriculum that caters to everyone.(that is why we have so much to choose from) I know the plain graphics work awesomely for some but not my kid. Maybe if I wait a year or two she will outgrow the need for the cute graphics but for now SM has literally saved us.

 

I paid so much attention to learning style that I ended up spending hundreds of dollars on math. I think from now on I will present samples to my daughter before I leap into a purchase.

 

My 2 cents,:D

 

Penny

 

update??

[truebluexf]

We are on week 4 of Singapore after trying MM for 2 weeks, and it is sooooo much better for us. MM just had too much to do on a page and didn't illustrate things as well for us as SM does. MM is certainly complete, but SM's presentation works out much, much better in our situation.

[mystika1]

update??

Hi,

My dd still loves SM! I am so glad I bought it. She understands math so much better now without tears.

 

Sincerely,

 

Penny

[Halcyon]

We use sing with my older and we both love it (okay, we're learning long division now and he doesn't hate it yet, and her adores word problems). I feel very, very confident in my son's math abilities, and that's due to SM. My youngest will transition to 2a next year; in the meantime he's using MM (it was easier to download mm than buy sing 1a online, and when he tried the mm sample pages, he was beyond thrilled so we went with that, after having used horizons for a year). He loves the format, loves the straightforward layout--he just doesn't want the cutesy stuff that sm 1a offers. But we own all the SM stuff starting with 2a, so we'll be switching over then. :)

[Sahamamama]

:thumbup:I am so glad you posted this. Very Helpful!

 

:iagree:Me, too!

 

Your post also made me realize how rusty my algebra is! :tongue_smilie:I couldn't do that stupid "solve for x and y" on PAPER, let alone in my head. How embarrassing. Good thing my kids are so young. I have time to relearn basic math. :001_huh:

[MeganW]

bumping up for Snowfall

[Crimson Wife]

I think it's easy to assume that since Singapore has 3 books (HIG, text, WB) and MM only has 1, there must not be enough stuff in MM, but I've found the opposite to be true. IMO there are more conceptual explanations (just more explicit and more direct) and there are more practice problems, more facts practice, and more review. It's just very efficient, because it was designed from scratch specifically for homeschoolers rather than for classroom teachers.

 

The Singapore HIGs are a lot "wordier" because they are trying to explain to the parent how to teach the concept to the child, so it will say "Explain to the child the concept of blah blah blah. Then show them on the board that blah blah equals blah blah. Use pennies or small colored circles to demonstrate the equivalance of yadda yadda and blah blah...." There are lots of instructions on how to explain and demonstrate concepts, use manipulatives, etc. There are two steps in Singapore (teach the teacher, then teach the child) and only one in Math Mammoth.

 

If a parent looks at MM and thinks "I can't teach this, where's the manual?" they're missing the point of MM — the parent doesn't have to teach it, Maria does! MM cuts out the middleman (and hence the TM) and explains the concepts directly to the child. Much of the explanations lie in the illustrations, so in a sense she's also the one who's "drawing the problems on the board," and many lessons include printed versions of tens blocks or fraction overlays, so that's built in, too. Then she often walks students through the problems step by step, starting with partially worked problems the student completes, then providing problems for the student to work on their own. The parent is there to assist and answer questions, and as long as the parent reads the same explanations as the child, they shouldn't have any trouble understanding the concept.

 

As usual, Jackie says so eloquently what I was trying to in the other thread.

[Testimony]

I will give two examples:

 

EXAMPLE 1: Algebraic Equations

Singapore introduces algebraic equations in 6b, using 1 variable. MM introduces algebraic equations using pictures in 4A, including equations with two variables. Here is one of the problems in 4A (she uses shapes for the variables, I'll just use x & y):

 

3x + y = 9 + x

x + 8 = 2y

find x & y*

 

That seems pretty rigorous to me for the beginning of 4th grade!

 

:

 

That is inaccurate that Singapore teaches Algebra in 6B. Algebra is actually taught in 3B with bar diagrams. If you change the wording of many of the word problems, they are Algebra problems. People get confused. The bar diagrams take the place of solving it algebraically. So, the statement Singapore teaches Algebra in 6B is totally wrong! They actually teach it in third grade.:D

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Dmmetler]

My DD loves the colors and the cartoony-look of Singapore, so we use it as our core, with supplements as needed or wanted.

[JadeOrchidSong]

That is inaccurate that Singapore teaches Algebra in 6B. Algebra is actually taught in 3B with bar diagrams. If you change the wording of many of the word problems, they are Algebra problems. People get confused. The bar diagrams take the place of solving it algebraically. So, the statement Singapore teaches Algebra in 6B is totally wrong! They actually teach it in third grade.:D

 

Blessings,

Karen

www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

:iagree::iagree:

[boscopup]

That is inaccurate that Singapore teaches Algebra in 6B. Algebra is actually taught in 3B with bar diagrams. If you change the wording of many of the word problems, they are Algebra problems. People get confused. The bar diagrams take the place of solving it algebraically. So, the statement Singapore teaches Algebra in 6B is totally wrong! They actually teach it in third grade.:D

 

 

MM teaches bar diagrams in grade 3 also. I think the PP was talking about actual algebra though. Bar diagrams are used instead of using algebra.

[Corraleno]

MM teaches bar diagrams in grade 3 also. I think the PP was talking about actual algebra though. Bar diagrams are used instead of using algebra.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

Jackie

[siloam]

MM teaches bar diagrams in grade 3 also. I think the PP was talking about actual algebra though. Bar diagrams are used instead of using algebra.

 

And the Singapore IP books have problems like the one described above but uses hearts and such instead of x and y. From what I have heard both programs have similar content. Some people prefer one and some the other.

 

I prefer Singapore because well MM wasn't around back then. But if it had been I might have liked it better. Now I have all these Singapore books I have invested in and no reason to change.

 

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

MM teaches bar diagrams in grade 3 also. I think the PP was talking about actual algebra though. Bar diagrams are used instead of using algebra.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

Jackie

Really? Where? We are almost done with 3A and I have skimmed the 3B topics and I don't see any? :confused:

 

I tried some Singapore examples and they seemed sooo easy. Why is that?

[wapiti]

Really? Where? We are almost done with 3A and I have skimmed the 3B topics and I don't see any? :confused:

 

There are some very simple bar diagrams in MM 3A on pp 34 and 71. Bar diagrams are covered in more detail starting in 4A on p. 25.

 

Single and double variable "scales" equations are also contained in 4A.

[justamouse]

I haven't seen MM so I can't compare the two. But, for me, SM has been one of our best curriculum choices ever, and since it is definitely not broken, and has a long track record of success in our family (and plenty of others), I wouldn't even consider an alternative unless I had a child for whom SM didn't work (and that won't happen since our family is complete.)

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

There are some very simple bar diagrams in MM 3A on pp 34 and 71. Bar diagrams are covered in more detail starting in 4A on p. 25.

 

Single and double variable "scales" equations are also contained in 4A.

Thank you so much. I print a little at a time, not always in order, and there are never page numbers on what I print. I think we skipped something! Now I need to figure out this mess.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

I did not leave Singapore for MM.

[abacus2]

I don't think you can look at just samples of levels 1 & 2 and then conclude that Singapore is "hands down more rigorous." I have all of the Singapore Primary Math (US edition) textbooks and workbooks from 1A-6B, as well as the HIGs for 4A-6B, the CWP for 3-6, and several IP books. I also have the complete MM Blue series for grades 1-3, and the complete Light Blue books from 4A-5B (grade 6 is not out yet). I have compared them quite extensively.

 

While it may be true that Singapore introduces some concepts more quickly in first grade, that is because MM includes more practice of math facts. I believe that was a conscious choice on Maria's part, to start more slowly and make sure kids are well grounded in the basics before moving on (a choice I agree with). If you compare the later levels, you will see that kids using MM have certainly "caught up" to Singapore, and in some cases she introduces concepts in MM before they are introduced in Singapore. I will give two examples:

 

EXAMPLE 1: Algebraic Equations

Singapore introduces algebraic equations in 6b, using 1 variable. MM introduces algebraic equations using pictures in 4A, including equations with two variables. Here is one of the problems in 4A (she uses shapes for the variables, I'll just use x & y):

 

3x + y = 9 + x

x + 8 = 2y

find x & y*

 

That seems pretty rigorous to me for the beginning of 4th grade!

 

EXAMPLE 2: Statistics and Graphing

In Singapore 5B there is a single lesson (3 pages) on Line Graphs. In Singapore 6B there is a single lesson on Pie Charts. That's it for graphing in Singapore 5th and 6th grade. I could not find any lessons on statistics.

MM 5A includes an entire chapter on Statistics and Graphing. There are 12 lessons in the chapter, including Introduction to Functions. The chapter also covers calculation of mean/mode/median, and there is a suggested statistics project at the end of the chapter.

 

I'm not arguing that MM is more rigorous than Singapore; their scope and sequence are slightly different, and each program may be a bit stronger in some areas and a bit weaker in others. But given the fact that I own compete sets of both Singapore (U.S.) and Math Mammoth, and have compared them extensively, I would argue that it is simply incorrect to say that one is "hands down more rigorous" than another ~ especially based on a few samples. Even looking at the tables of contents does not tell you anything about how the concept is taught, or how challenging the problems are.

 

Jackie

 

* the answer is x=2, y=5 for those of you who couldn't do it in your head :tongue_smilie:

 

I need a thanks button. This is very helpful info. Thank you!

[siloam]

Really? Where? We are almost done with 3A and I have skimmed the 3B topics and I don't see any? :confused:

 

I tried some Singapore examples and they seemed sooo easy. Why is that?

They start in level 3 and are easy there, but they get harder and harder. :D

 

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

They start in level 3 and are easy there, but they get harder and harder. :D

 

Heather

I am just wondering if seeming easy is a good thing, kwim? Because as far as I know Singapore is on the same level as Math Mammoth right? The main reason I switched from Abeka was that I was worried about too much too fast... just thinking out loud here.

 

I keep considering switching to Singapore. Maybe the reason it seems easy is that it is a better fit. But then, from the samples I saw it is different enough from Math Mammoth that we would end up loosing time... again.

 

Grrr.

[Spy Car]

I am just wondering if seeming easy is a good thing, kwim? Because as far as I know Singapore is on the same level as Math Mammoth right? The main reason I switched from Abeka was that I was worried about too much too fast... just thinking out loud here.

 

I keep considering switching to Singapore. Maybe the reason it seems easy is that it is a better fit. But then, from the samples I saw it is different enough from Math Mammoth that we would end up loosing time... again.

 

Grrr.

 

The work in the basic Textbooks and Workbooks in Primary Mathematics tends not to be terribly difficult. This is so children gain confidence in their lessons (although there are subsets of more difficult problems). But that is also why they have the "Intensive Practice" books which are much more of a "brain-stretch" than the core books. The IPs are not easy.

 

Bill

[siloam]

I don't know what Singapore is like compared to MM. The level 3 bar graphs are easy because they kids have to learn to draw them. And as Bill stated they stay on the easy side in the Primary texts, but not in the CWP or especially the Intensive Practice books.

 

If you want to avoid the tougher problems just stick with the primary text and extra practice books.

 

My kids aren't super mathy, and I don't even start Singapore till 2nd grade. My kids haven't had a horrible time with the bar problems. My oldest doesn't want to draw them, so often we go back and forth on just getting her to draw it instead of guessing. But that is a different issue. My middle two do a lot better with it.

 

Also if they have really tried I will draw it for them or do it with them.

 

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks to you both.