Ds' Wrestling Coach Took The Team to Hooters

[Joanne]

I'm against the porn *industry* and I'll grant that Hooters is on that continuum. I also embrace complicated feelings about expressions of attractiveness, sexuality, modesty and playfulness. All that, I suppose, is fodder for another discussion.

 

Tho I said I was done commenting, I do want to say that I appreciate this, Joanne.

 

My heart is so hurt for this child, and I am still recovering from the family disease of addiction; that colors my reactions to stuff like Hooters. I'm trying hard not to control, but I am still learning how to parent. This child has been exposed to far more than I ever would have wanted, and some of it thru adults with very, very poor decision making skills. I know you can relate to our family stuggles, and I always look to your well-reasoned posts for guidance and balance. Thanks for your perspective, and I do hope I was not offensive in giving my opinion.

 

Not offensive in the least. {{{hugs}}}

 

The emphasis on alcohol as entertainment varies in popular settings. In Applebees, the alcohol is secondary to the food. At Hooters, the "bar" aspect is heightened.

 

As far as the recovery process the "acuteness" of those feelings will wane and the hyper-focus and sensitivity will also dissipate with time. This is a good thing when coupled with an ongoing appropriate level of recovery activity. It all takes time. There is a gentleman who plays poker at my venue about once a week. He now has 2+ years of recovery, but I worried about the appropriateness of his being at the games earlier on. I watched him try (and fail) to quit smoking. It was too much to get sober, spend time recreationally in a bar *and* try to quit smoking. He does come to the bar on Friday nights, after going to an AA meeting. ;) He checks in with me as a "recovery connection", plays a tournament of poker and goes home. He recently purchased his first home with his wife and they are expecting. :) Still, I was not in complete support of him coming "early on" and told him so (AA members kinda have that implied role in each other's lives).

 

I am praying for your conversation with the Coaches.

[Julie in CA]

In my opinion, it's not the age of the kids (even 18 year olds), it's the situation of being under the authority/guidance of the coach, who chose to take them to a restaurant that sails completely under the banner of exploiting women's bodies and man's baser impulses for profit. I'm all for modesty, but at the same time, I'm not a complete prude. The issue for me is not the viewing of an attractive woman's body, it's the smarmy exploitation of the not-so-noble part of society. I would indeed be looking at that coach and asking him what on earth he was thinking. No matter what, there's a better choice than Hooters. :glare:

[LibraryLover]

No, but at least their books aren't squishing out of push-up bras.

 

A lot of folks are leg people. ;)

 

And. If people are sitting down, as they are on airplanes, getting a hankering of leg is a lot more provocative.

 

These girls are purty, too:

 

http://www.top-things-to-do.com/united-states/new-york-city/rockettes-radio-music-hall.jpg

 

I am also thinking more kids have seen this than go to hooters:

http://www.thepinupblog.com/files/princess_leia_gold_bikini.jpg

Edited January 9, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Sputterduck]

In my opinion, it's not the age of the kids (even 18 year olds), it's the situation of being under the authority/guidance of the coach, who chose to take them to a restaurant that sails completely under the banner of exploiting women's bodies and man's baser impulses for profit. I'm all for modesty, but at the same time, I'm not a complete prude. The issue for me is not the viewing of an attractive woman's body, it's the smarmy exploitation of the not-so-noble part of society. I would indeed be looking at that coach and asking him what on earth he was thinking. No matter what, there's a better choice than Hooters. :glare:

 

Yeah. If it were a boss and these were adult men, it's still inappropriate. When a person in charge takes a group to a place like this it puts those who are uncomfortable with going in a difficult position.

[LibraryLover]

of course, I would not have appreciated the coach doing this.I think sticking to basic pizza joints is more apporpriate.

[Parrothead]

How old are the boys?

 

It probably wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

:iagree:

 

My friend's ds is on the MIDDLE school wresting team and the coaches took the team to a novelty pastry shop where the main attraction was donuts and pastries shaped like private parts. Nice. What the HECK are these people thinking???????!??!??!??!?!??!

That would bother me. More like porn.

[Starr]

Unfortunately not all parents will agree which complicates the whole issue at school.

[Kathleen in VA]

Unfortunately not all parents will agree which complicates the whole issue at school.

 

Yes, but that doesn't keep the coach from choosing something no parent would have a problem with, especially since it could have so easily been accomplished. I don't think it's all that complicated to choose a family-friendly restaurant. How hard is it to consider that some parents might have a problem with Hooters, for crying out loud? Sounds like an immature coach who wants to look "cool" in front of his team instead of acting like a responsible adult in charge of other people's children.

[Kirch]

I'm going to guess that there is no more inappropriate grabbing at Hooters than family gatherings, Youth Events, and workplaces.

 

I was the poster who posted about being inappropriately grabbed. I am 43, overweight, and was definitely not wearning anything highlighted my books. People who are inappropriate are inappropriate regardless of setting (and while I was in a *bar*, the person who grabbed me is not a drinker).

 

I'm against the porn *industry* and I'll grant that Hooters is on that continuum. I also embrace complicated feelings about expressions of attractiveness, sexuality, modesty and playfulness. All that, I suppose, is fodder for another discussion.

 

I guess I'd say that just like I can't make too many accurate assumptions about your reaction to Hooters as you can't make too many ones about my comfort with it.

 

Yes, you see more skin at the beach like someone posted. And yes, they probably see girls in similar outfits in gym class. Yes, inappropriate touching occurs in many different surroundings. But at Hooters, the POINT is to invite looking and it promotes an atmosphere that is conducive to inappropriate behavior, even if it isn't "officially" sanctioned. There's a difference between some girls/women trying to put themselves out there for attention on their own and an establishment whose point is to show off women's bodies and encourage men to look. People can argue that it's just a restaurant, that the women choose to be there, whatever--the commercial the previous poster described shows that the owners know *exactly* what they're doing. And honestly, everyone else knows that that's the point of the restaurants as well. No one is posting, "Huh? I don't get it!"

 

I know that it wouldn't cause lust issues for most of us as women, and maybe not all of our husbands. But we're not teenage guys who already struggle (or don't fight it, as the case may be) with sexual thoughts, images, etc. due to hormones. We don't think it's appropriate for teenage guys to leer at, make sexually suggestive comments to, or talk about girls and women as sexual objects. Even if you don't get into moral/faith issues regarding sex and modesty, how is taking them to Hooters encouraging them to view and treat women with respect? They know as well as anyone else what Hooters means.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Kirch

[Chelle in MO]

Yes, but that doesn't keep the coach from choosing something no parent would have a problem with, especially since it could have so easily been accomplished. I don't think it's all that complicated to choose a family-friendly restaurant. How hard is it to consider that some parents might have a problem with Hooters, for crying out loud? Sounds like an immature coach who wants to look "cool" in front of his team instead of acting like a responsible adult in charge of other people's children.

I completely agree w/you, Kathleen. Unfortunately, it seems that public schools in general think they become the parents during school hours/functions. It's as if parents' rights are checked at the door, and the school's representative has authority to decide what's o.k. for those he's in charge of, without regard for parents.

 

That's just one of many reasons why I'll never be in favor of government education or many other government programs. Too much is taken away from individuals.

 

Chelle

[Mom-ninja.]

I know that it wouldn't cause lust issues for most of us as women, and maybe not all of our husbands. But we're not teenage guys who already struggle (or don't fight it, as the case may be) with sexual thoughts, images, etc. due to hormones. We don't think it's appropriate for teenage guys to leer at, make sexually suggestive comments to, or talk about girls and women as sexual objects. Even if you don't get into moral/faith issues regarding sex and modesty, how is taking them to Hooters encouraging them to view and treat women with respect? They know as well as anyone else what Hooters means.

 

 

You could look at from another angle. Instead of trying to prevent young men/boys from seeing anything that might provoke sexual thoughts and desires, we could teach them how to deal with such desires. We already know that sexuality and women as sexual objects is rampant in our society, and boys are exposed to it whether we want them to be or not. So how do these boys learn to handle the onslaught of sexual messages? We can teach them. So going to a place as Hooters, with scantily dressed women, can provide a place where a boy can be taught to control his desires and actions even when in an "in your face" situation. Just because a woman is wearing tiny shorts does not give you permission to touch her in any way or speak to her in a disrespectful manner. Boys and men will always have sex on their minds, and I (and DH) hope to help teach our sons how to realize that women (and men) are sexual beings and yet at the same time deserve respect. It's a good skill to have. :001_smile:

 

That's my take on it, but them I'm one of "those kind of people" who take their kids to Hooters.

[Sputterduck]

You could look at from another angle. Instead of trying to prevent young men/boys from seeing anything that might provoke sexual thoughts and desires, we could teach them how to deal with such desires. We already know that sexuality and women as sexual objects is rampant in our society, and boys are exposed to it whether we want them to be or not. So how do these boys learn to handle the onslaught of sexual messages? We can teach them. So going to a place as Hooters, with scantily dressed women, can provide a place where a boy can be taught to control his desires and actions even when in an "in your face" situation. Just because a woman is wearing tiny shorts does not give you permission to touch her in any way or speak to her in a disrespectful manner. Boys and men will always have sex on their minds, and I (and DH) hope to help teach our sons how to realize that women (and men) are sexual beings and yet at the same time deserve respect. It's a good skill to have. :001_smile:

 

That's my take on it, but them I'm one of "those kind of people" who take their kids to Hooters.

 

Why not just give them a playboy to look at while teaching them not to react to the onslaught of sexual messages, if you think it's a good thing? :confused:

[Kirch]

You could look at from another angle. Instead of trying to prevent young men/boys from seeing anything that might provoke sexual thoughts and desires, we could teach them how to deal with such desires. We already know that sexuality and women as sexual objects is rampant in our society, and boys are exposed to it whether we want them to be or not. So how do these boys learn to handle the onslaught of sexual messages? We can teach them. So going to a place as Hooters, with scantily dressed women, can provide a place where a boy can be taught to control his desires and actions even when in an "in your face" situation. Just because a woman is wearing tiny shorts does not give you permission to touch her in any way or speak to her in a disrespectful manner. Boys and men will always have sex on their minds, and I (and DH) hope to help teach our sons how to realize that women (and men) are sexual beings and yet at the same time deserve respect. It's a good skill to have. :001_smile:

 

That's my take on it, but them I'm one of "those kind of people" who take their kids to Hooters.

 

 

Like I pointed out, they'll see scantily dressed women in plenty of places--plenty of opportunities for teaching them to control their desires and actions. But the whole point of Hooters goes counter to that teaching, and taking them there while trying to teach that sends mixed messages at the very least. I agree that they're not going to be able to escape sexual messages and images in our society. But they don't have to choose to submit themselves to them when there are other options.

[Mom-ninja.]

Like I pointed out, they'll see scantily dressed women in plenty of places--plenty of opportunities for teaching them to control their desires and actions. But the whole point of Hooters goes counter to that teaching, and taking them there while trying to teach that sends mixed messages at the very least. I agree that they're not going to be able to escape sexual messages and images in our society. But they don't have to choose to submit themselves to them when there are other options.

 

Yes, there are plenty of opportunities to teach control and respect. I'm merely trying to look for the silver lining in such situations as Hooters. ;)

[Kirch]

Yes, there are plenty of opportunities to teach control and respect. I'm merely trying to look for the silver lining in such situations as Hooters. ;)

 

Gotcha. :001_smile:

[momof165]

I've never been to Hooter's, so I don't really know what goes on there, but it is considered a rather mainstream restaurant where I live, and I see families going in and out all the time. Now then, the cleavage I saw at a German-ish restaurant was sooooooo long, I was tempted to get out a measuring tape. Kiddo was fascinated. (I muttered to him "they almost defy gravity" just to acknowledge I saw him staring and it was a bit impolite. He gave me that "there goes Mama with an odd remark" look. I want to tell him that if he is really my son, just another dozen years or so, and he'll be the odd-remarker! My mother would have said something like "get a load of them lung-warts." I mean, when she served, it was like having two bowls of mashed potatoes put in one's face.)

 

She probably was wearing a "Dirndl" - a Bavarian folk dress. The cleavage is the same with all Dirndls and the kids growing up in Bavaria don't even blink when they see women wear these dresses. I guess, I am one of the more liberal people where going to the Hooters as a teenager or being served a meal in a Dirndl is no big deal. My son wouldn't even look.

 

Sonja

[Laurie4b]

Yes, you see more skin at the beach like someone posted. And yes, they probably see girls in similar outfits in gym class. Yes, inappropriate touching occurs in many different surroundings. But at Hooters, the POINT is to invite looking and it promotes an atmosphere that is conducive to inappropriate behavior, even if it isn't "officially" sanctioned. There's a difference between some girls/women trying to put themselves out there for attention on their own and an establishment whose point is to show off women's bodies and encourage men to look. People can argue that it's just a restaurant, that the women choose to be there, whatever--the commercial the previous poster described shows that the owners know *exactly* what they're doing. And honestly, everyone else knows that that's the point of the restaurants as well. No one is posting, "Huh? I don't get it!"

 

.

 

:iagree: And that is why I think it's totally inappropriate for a school to take kids there. It's societal endorsement of those exploitive values.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

There's a big difference to *me* (stressing me there because I know not everyone shares my opinion) between dh and I taking our ds there and someone else making that choice for us. I don't like other adults making choices for my family in what kinds of movies my dc can watch, what tv they can watch, what they can listen to, or what they are exposed to.

 

Now, what the coach did was wrong because he assumed that it was okay to expose these boys (especially if there were minors on the team) to something that is a parental decision.

 

That's just my opinion.

[Joanne]

Yes, you see more skin at the beach like someone posted. And yes, they probably see girls in similar outfits in gym class. Yes, inappropriate touching occurs in many different surroundings. But at Hooters, the POINT is to invite looking and it promotes an atmosphere that is conducive to inappropriate behavior, even if it isn't "officially" sanctioned. There's a difference between some girls/women trying to put themselves out there for attention on their own and an establishment whose point is to show off women's bodies and encourage men to look. People can argue that it's just a restaurant, that the women choose to be there, whatever--the commercial the previous poster described shows that the owners know *exactly* what they're doing. And honestly, everyone else knows that that's the point of the restaurants as well. No one is posting, "Huh? I don't get it!"

 

I know that it wouldn't cause lust issues for most of us as women, and maybe not all of our husbands. But we're not teenage guys who already struggle (or don't fight it, as the case may be) with sexual thoughts, images, etc. due to hormones. We don't think it's appropriate for teenage guys to leer at, make sexually suggestive comments to, or talk about girls and women as sexual objects. Even if you don't get into moral/faith issues regarding sex and modesty, how is taking them to Hooters encouraging them to view and treat women with respect? They know as well as anyone else what Hooters means.

 

 

I don't share the viewpoint that young men "struggle" or will be led astray by the sight of well packaged (according to our culture) books. Of course, I also don't believe that thinking about sex = bad, sin, etc. Yes, I am aware of the scripture pertaining to this issue. But I personally don't believe Jesus is tricky. Humans *frequently* think of sex with others. Jesus saying if a man so much as looks at another woman is rather like saying "don't think of a purple elephant". I therefore consider that scripture from a different perspective than many.

 

And to an extent, you are correct. I don't "get into" some commonly held ideas about modest dress. People who behave poorly do so regardless of how covered, inconspicuous or "modest" women (or girls) are.

 

I'm not against age appropriate playfullness and flirting.

 

Anyway, the common held idea that young men are easily lead into inappropriateness or promiscuity is demeaning to them and make a lot of assumptions IMO.

 

The presence of books does not change the character of the men/young men involved.

[Joanne]

There's a big difference to *me* (stressing me there because I know not everyone shares my opinion) between dh and I taking our ds there and someone else making that choice for us. I don't like other adults making choices for my family in what kinds of movies my dc can watch, what tv they can watch, what they can listen to, or what they are exposed to.

 

Now, what the coach did was wrong because he assumed that it was okay to expose these boys (especially if there were minors on the team) to something that is a parental decision.

 

That's just my opinion.

 

That's a terrific point and I can certainly understand.

[SonshineLearner]

That's my take on it, but them I'm one of "those kind of people" who take their kids to Hooters.

 

You actually take your kids... or would take them when they're older?

:confused:

[Sahamamama]

I have to say I'm surprised at those who would think it was appropriate in this instance to go to Hooters and not think twice about it. I just find it a demeaning place, and I don't think it's appropriate to take boys there. The whole place is set up to be a "wink-wink" experience, with attention deliberately drawn to one part of the human anatomy. Women as objects. Don't we have enough of that in everyday life?

 

:iagree:I asked my husband what HE thinks about this, and he was incredulous that any adult put in the position of in loco parentis -- "in the place of the parents" -- would have the audacity to do such a thing, at least without prior consent from parents (see below). His view:

 

"It's a restaurant named ****. What else do you need to know?"

 

http://www.hooters.com/hootersgirl/Home/Default.aspx

 

http://www.hooters.com/home.aspx

 

And that really IS what it is about. And the sexual exploitation of women, too. These are the themes of "HOOTERS." You can talk about the owl all you like, there is no emphasis on bird-watching. :glare: What are you supposed to "watch" when you go there? The wildlife, I suppose.

 

So how appropriate is it for a coach/teacher to take a group of ANY-aged boys/girls there? As far as consent goes, would the OP have CONSENTED to this? Obviously not. A teacher or coach or youth pastor or other person acting "in the place of the parents" should consider and honor the values of the parents, as well as the safety of the children/teens.

 

We had an issue (sort of) about this at our church. NOT Hooters-related, LOL, just that whenever parents would drop off their children at Sunday School/Children's Church, you would THINK that this would signify to the children's workers: You are RESPONSIBLE for this child until you TRANSFER that responsibility back to us (i.e., we pick her up). Instead, the workers would repeatedly "lose" children -- as in, "Oh no, where's Michael? Hey, Katie, have you seen Michael?" -- and Michael was a little boy with severe Down syndrome. They would lose children all the time. I know this because I was out in the lobby & downstairs with our toddler twins. The workers would often dismiss the classes, without the parents knowing it (still in the sanctuary upstairs), and the children were OUTSIDE IN THE PARKING LOT, running through the creek, up and down the hill by the major highway. Oh, and there was NO SCREENING of workers (ever), and they did not have "double-layers" or whatever that two-adult rule is called. We NEVER ONCE put our girls in the "Children's Ministry," and we were considered odd for this. :confused: We found another church where our girls are well cared for and we feel they are safer.

 

Anyway, that's my rant about the special considerations that ought to be made when you are responsible for SOMEONE ELSE'S children. If you want to take your own son to BOOBIES for supper, that's fine, but don't take mine. I'm done. :rant:

[LauraGB]

"It's a restaurant named ****. What else do you need to know?"

 

http://www.hooters.com/hootersgirl/Home/Default.aspx

 

http://www.hooters.com/home.aspx

 

Anyway, that's my rant about the special considerations that ought to be made when you are responsible for SOMEONE ELSE'S children. If you want to take your own son to BOOBIES for supper, that's fine, but don't take mine. I'm done. :rant:

 

Lol! I'm on my kids' computer and I tried to click your link, but the filter blocked it! So, there ya go!

 

And I totally agree. There is no way in heck I'd be okay with the coach taking my son with my money to a place like that when they could get more or less the same food anywhere else. Shame on him.

[Mommyfaithe]

I would be unhappy too, and would definetly complain. The Hooters here advertises that kids eat free on the weekend. I have always wondered what type of people would take their kids to Hooters....

 

I've seen that too...WHAT THE HECK????

 

I'd be very concerned and the coach would know it!

 

~~Faithe

[dtb1999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanie78

I would be unhappy too, and would definetly complain. The Hooters here advertises that kids eat free on the weekend. I have always wondered what type of people would take their kids to Hooters....

I've seen that too...WHAT THE HECK????

 

 

 

:seeya: Hi! How are ya? I'm one of "those types of people"! I take my 5 and almost 7 yr old there. We like the food. The waitresses aren't exactly topless, and they don't exactly come to your table and start stripping themselves of their clothing, so I fail to see the problem or concern here. :confused:

[HRAAB]

 

That's my take on it, but them I'm one of "those kind of people" who take their kids to Hooters.

 

Just so you're not alone... our whole family has eaten at Hooters. More than once.

 

However, as the parent I reserve the right to make those decisions, not a coach. I wouldn't be upset if my 18 year old son went. What would upset me more is that another adult made that decision for me. I think the coach made an error in judgment when dealing with others' children.