Not sure I handled this right...(ridiulously long)

[AlmiraGulch]

I have two very close friends, whom I'll call M and P. I've known M for several years, having worked together for quite some time and developing quite a tight friendship.

 

M and I no longer work together, and she met P at her new place of employment. M and P became very close, very quickly, and when M introduced P and me we did as well.

 

Fast forward a bit....a series of events at work caused M and P to discontinue their personal relationship, leaving each bitter and untrusting toward the other. Meanwhile, I'm still friends with both of them, they know it, and we just don't talk about the absent party when two of us are together. One will ask how the other is doing, and I'll say fine, and that's that. Each has separately warned me of the other's propensity to do "questionable" things at work. Since I worked with M before, I already knew she often has loose lips, although it's not malicious. She just seems to have an issue with boundaries.

 

Now for the meat of it. M has a drinking problem. I know it, she knows it, basically anyone who has been out with her socially more than a time or two knows it. She has made quite a spectacle of herself on more than one occasion. She also regularly drinks and drives. P and I spoke of it quite candidly both to each other and with M when P and M were still on speaking terms. For obvious reasons, it's a major concern.

 

One evening last week I started receiving what were obviously drunken text messages from M. I called her and found out she was at a bar in a town she does not live in (she was visiting her parents for the holidays) and was so drunk she was slurring her words. I told her she was not to drive home, and that if she did I would call her parents and let them in on her "little secret" (both are teetotalers and do not allow alcohol in their home) and she laughed hung up on me.

 

Knowing that P is aware of the problem, that she does care about M even if they aren't tight anymore, and that she is also an attorney, I called her immediately basically to find out what she thought I should do. I ended up calling the Manager of the bar and telling him that he had a clearly intoxicated woman at his bar, that he needed to stop serving her immediately and call her a cab or that he would share liability if she killed herself or someone else on the way home. Before the cab got there, M got in her car and drove herself home. I told her that had I known she was in the car I would have called 911.

 

Today M called me saying that her boss had confronted her about her drinking problem, citing last week's incident specifically as told to her by P. Apparently the boss was supposed to be going for a drink with M tonight, and P told her she should not be drinking with M and went into detail as to why.

 

M is not happy with me, to say the least, for telling P. I told her I was sorry that there were negative repercussions for her at work, but that I was not sorry for talking to P about it even though I was surprised she told the boss about it. M thinks P is just being malicious. I think P is honestly concerned and doesn't want to contribute to the problem anymore. I assured M that P and I do not sit around talking about her, but that we weren't willing to sit around and wait for her to kill herself or someone else any longer. If letting the cat out of the bag forces her to get help, then so be it.

 

So, what says the Hive? Do you think I was wrong to call P in my panic that night? I do know their history and their mutual professional concerns, but that honestly was not even on my mind. I was looking for support from someone I know and trust and who knows M and is concerned for her as well.

 

Do you think that P speaking to M's boss had malicious undertones? For context purposes, P and the boss were in the middle of a conversation when it came up. P did not make a point to go into the boss and disclose. That said, I hate to admit it but I do think that P is a bit jealous of M, as M is the clear "star" of the department, so maybe there was more to it than concern. Yikes.

 

Finally, what would you have done that night, and would you do anything else at this point? I really am concerned for my friend, and I know she's seeing a therapist about it but it just doesn't seem to be working.

 

Thanks for sticking with this incredibly long post! I am definitely interested in other points of view.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that you did just fine.

 

I probably would not have called the non-drinking colleague--I probably would have either tried to find another person to call, or driven out there myself to pick her up. I just see privacy at work as a key value. But I used to have a professional job that had a lot of confidential elements, and I think I have privacy habits that are beyond most people's because of that.

 

The non-drinking colleague pretty much had to tell her boss, if they are attorneys, because he might be incurring liabilities himself if he takes this person out for a drink. So it's like saying something to the police--anything you say can and will be used against you. A boss or an attorney is not allowed to keep certain kinds of secrets. She may or may not have been malicious in doing so. She may or may not have been trying to look for an opportunity to 'innocently' work this into the conversation. That would effect how I would view her morals. However, she probably was in a position where she had an obligation to report, and it might have been better if she were not put there.

 

But again, I think that you handled this very well.

[Impish]

From what you've said, M is an unrepentant drunk who consistently and callously endangers innocent lives by driving drunk.

 

I think you should have called the cops on her. I think its astounding that anyone has supported her addiction by keeping quiet. I think that she should be in jail, since she obviously doesn't give a crap enough to be a candidate for rehab.

 

She's counting on everyone keeping quiet. Good for anyone whose willing to speak out.

[dangermom]

If M doesn't want to confront the fact that she's got a drinking problem, she will get mad at anyone who tried to point it out to her. It probably doesn't matter too much what you chose to do--if it stepped on her drinking toes, she would get mad.

 

Maybe P should have kept her mouth shut at work, but I'm not bothered. The more secrecy, the more room M has to keep drinking and perhaps hurt someone.

[Jean in Newcastle]

From what I understand, P already knew of the drinking problem. She would probably have told the boss anyway of the drinking problem and cited another context in which M was clearly intoxicated and/or made a scene. I think she just cited this one because it was the most recent. I honestly think you did fine.

[Puma Mom]

I think you handled it fine. I think it would have been better if P had not used the specific incident in speaking to her boss, but you had no control over that. You apologized for the unintended repercussions of your actions, but, seriously, it could have been a DUI charge if you'd known she got into the car and drove.

 

It's hard to tell if P's reason for disclosing the incident was malicious. But even if her motives were suspect, I'm not sure it was a bad idea to let the boss know that going out for a drink with M asking for a problem.

 

Don't expect her to thank you for it any time soon, but I think the risks she is taking with her and other people's lives are bigger than her feelings.

[specialmama]

I So, what says the Hive? Do you think I was wrong to call P in my panic that night? I do know their history and their mutual professional concerns, but that honestly was not even on my mind. I was looking for support from someone I know and trust and who knows M and is concerned for her as well.

 

I don't think you were wrong. You needed someone to talk to quickly, someone who cared and would give you good advice. You never call someone whom is known to give poor advice.

 

Do you think that P speaking to M's boss had malicious undertones? For context purposes, P and the boss were in the middle of a conversation when it came up. P did not make a point to go into the boss and disclose. That said, I hate to admit it but I do think that P is a bit jealous of M, as M is the clear "star" of the department, so maybe there was more to it than concern. Yikes.

 

You are not P's keeper. P did what she thought was best for whatever reasons. It does not concern you. And frankly, dirty little secrets like this destroy, alcoholism destroys.. M is only upset because the cat is out of the bag. It hardly has anything to do with P.

 

Finally, what would you have done that night, and would you do anything else at this point? I really am concerned for my friend, and I know she's seeing a therapist about it but it just doesn't seem to be working.

 

I would confront her. She has a problem (drinking) and it is interfering with her friendships, her work, her safety and every other person in whatever community she is driving through. You have a responsibility to confront her and do whatever it takes (books, AA, videos, visiting a person in hospital who was hit by a drunk driver, MADD, etc.) to make her see that she needs help.

 

Thanks for sticking with this incredibly long post! I am definitely interested in other points of view.

 

You're in a tough spot here, and a great friend, I can tell. Kudos to you for remaining level headed (even though you're doubting yourself now) and showing concern for your friend. People often have to hit rock bottom before they're willing to get help. Rock bottom may involve her being utterly alone, without a single friend, including you... so although I can vouch personally for sticking by someone through this, I can also say that without a doubt there may be a time for you to step away for a season while she goes through what she must in order to sink or swim. Praying she can swim. :grouphug: Also, please let go of whatever resentment/questions you have for P. She's a big girl, I bet, and the 2 of you ought to stick together. :grouphug:

Edited January 5, 2010 by specialmama
clarification on hasty posting

[specialmama]

From what I understand, P already knew of the drinking problem. She would probably have told the boss anyway of the drinking problem and cited another context in which M was clearly intoxicated and/or made a scene. I think she just cited this one because it was the most recent. I honestly think you did fine.

 

Excellent point, Jean.

[AlmiraGulch]

Wow!

 

Thanks so much for the prompt replies.

 

I think you're correct that P would likely have found a way to disclose with or without the latest incident. On the one hand, I don't care. I know what my intentions were and I'm not responsible for P's actions. On the other hand, I'm having a little guilt that my having told P may have a negative affect on M's career. On the third hand (I AM a mother, so I have at least three, right? :tongue_smilie: ) it's almost irrelevant. She won't have any career at all if she's dead or kills someone.

 

The incident the other night was not the first, but it was the first I've done something other than confront M about it after the fact. I told her today that I love her but I won't be a party to her drinking anymore, so don't invite me out if she plans to drink. I also reiterated that if I know she's out driving after she has been drinking I WILL call 911.

 

Very sad.

[AlmiraGulch]

I think that you did just fine.

 

I probably would not have called the non-drinking colleague--I probably would have either tried to find another person to call, or driven out there myself to pick her up. I just see privacy at work as a key value. But I used to have a professional job that had a lot of confidential elements, and I think I have privacy habits that are beyond most people's because of that.

 

The non-drinking colleague pretty much had to tell her boss, if they are attorneys, because he might be incurring liabilities himself if he takes this person out for a drink. So it's like saying something to the police--anything you say can and will be used against you. A boss or an attorney is not allowed to keep certain kinds of secrets. She may or may not have been malicious in doing so. She may or may not have been trying to look for an opportunity to 'innocently' work this into the conversation. That would effect how I would view her morals. However, she probably was in a position where she had an obligation to report, and it might have been better if she were not put there.

 

But again, I think that you handled this very well.

 

Thanks for the support!

 

P is not a non-drinker (M's parents are) but she does not have a problem. I hadn't considered that she may be professionally obligated to disclose the information, either. Good point.

[elegantlion]

If M doesn't want to confront the fact that she's got a drinking problem, she will get mad at anyone who tried to point it out to her. It probably doesn't matter too much what you chose to do--if it stepped on her drinking toes, she would get mad.

 

Maybe P should have kept her mouth shut at work, but I'm not bothered. The more secrecy, the more room M has to keep drinking and perhaps hurt someone.

 

From what I understand, P already knew of the drinking problem. She would probably have told the boss anyway of the drinking problem and cited another context in which M was clearly intoxicated and/or made a scene. I think she just cited this one because it was the most recent. I honestly think you did fine.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[nono]

Once your friend decided to text you drunk, all bets were off. SHE opened the door to all that happened. She needs to woman up and straighten herself out. Blaming others for her reckless actions is childish.

[Julie in CA]

I'm the only one, I guess....I'd never have called P about M's misbehavior, mostly because, unless I'm misunderstanding, there really wasn't anything P could do about it. Since there was nothing P could do to improve the situation, it could be construed as gossipy to have called her at all. I understand why M would be upset.

 

Obviously though, M is ultimately responsible for her own bad behavior, and I don't think you should waste one bit of energy on wondering whether you did the right thing. It's hard to watch a friend go down, and I'm sorry. :grouphug:

[coffeefreak]

I didn't read the other responses because I wanted to answer from my gut. Here goes:

 

You did what you deemed morally right. You had no malicious intent, only concern. You did right.

 

You have no control over what P did. We don't know if P was right or not. We will never know P's true heart on the matter, whether what she did was out of spite or concern. However, that's not your problem. All you can do is tell M you honestly love and care about her. You're sorry you spoke with P and you've learned your lesson. You and P will no longer discuss M. Then, call P and tell her the situation. Tell her M is angry because of what happened at work and now you have to separate yourself from their tiff. You care about both of them, therefore you will no longer be discussing M with her and visa versa.

 

FWIW - I have some experience with this. Can you tell? What has happened in my situation is, friend B (your P) is now my best friend and friend A (your M) is not speaking to us. I separated myself from their tiff and B handled it fine, even apologized for her part. Friend A wanted me to take sides and grew frustrated with her effort and gave up. Friend B and I became closer and I learned who was really causing all the problems. And we weren't even talking about friend A!

 

:grouphug: I hope it works out better for you guys! Hang in there and call the police the next time your friend drives drunk.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[Dobela]

I'm the only one, I guess....I'd never have called P about M's misbehavior, mostly because, unless I'm misunderstanding, there really wasn't anything P could do about it. Since there was nothing P could do to improve the situation, it could be construed as gossipy to have called her at all. I understand why M would be upset.

 

Obviously though, M is ultimately responsible for her own bad behavior, and I don't think you should waste one bit of energy on wondering whether you did the right thing. It's hard to watch a friend go down, and I'm sorry. :grouphug:

I actually think that calling P was appropriate actually. In some states you can be legally held responsible if you know someone is driving intoxicated and do nothing about it - even if you are not actually with that person. Since P is also an attorney, she would be well informed of the laws in their area. Not to mention she would be available after hours, on a holiday, when other attorneys would be difficult to call for advice. Unless the OP knew another attorney, this was her best choice. And, in a panic, one doesn't always think clearly.

 

OP, you did the right thing, except once you knew she was driving, I would have preferred you call 911 and get her off the road. My mom was almost killed by a drunk driver and I have no tolerance for that behavior.

[Mommyof4ks]

I'm the only one, I guess....I'd never have called P about M's misbehavior, mostly because, unless I'm misunderstanding, there really wasn't anything P could do about it. Since there was nothing P could do to improve the situation, it could be construed as gossipy to have called her at all. I understand why M would be upset.

 

Obviously though, M is ultimately responsible for her own bad behavior, and I don't think you should waste one bit of energy on wondering whether you did the right thing. It's hard to watch a friend go down, and I'm sorry. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[AlmiraGulch]

I'm the only one, I guess....I'd never have called P about M's misbehavior, mostly because, unless I'm misunderstanding, there really wasn't anything P could do about it. Since there was nothing P could do to improve the situation, it could be construed as gossipy to have called her at all. I understand why M would be upset.

 

Obviously though, M is ultimately responsible for her own bad behavior, and I don't think you should waste one bit of energy on wondering whether you did the right thing. It's hard to watch a friend go down, and I'm sorry. :grouphug:

 

I'm glad you posted this, because I have to say honestly that I was questioning my own motives. Did I really call P because I wanted her spur-of-the-moment advice, or was I being gossipy?

 

Upon further examination and reflection I can honestly say there was nothing gossipy to it. My motivation was totally to get her opinion, quickly, on what I was considering doing. She has a personal connection, has witnessed it before, and as an attorney is typically very good at making rational decisions. So...I'm over being upset that I called her. I don't think I'd do anything differently, but I'm really glad your post gave me pause so I could think all the way through and let that little nagging feeling go.

 

Thanks so much for the advice and the hugs!

[AlmiraGulch]

OP, you did the right thing, except once you knew she was driving, I would have preferred you call 911 and get her off the road. My mom was almost killed by a drunk driver and I have no tolerance for that behavior.

 

I wish I had known because I would have! As far as I knew, the cab was on the way and she was getting in it. I got a call or a text or something from her about 15 minutes later saying she was at her parents and getting in bed. The bar was less than 3 miles from the house, so she was already home before I ever knew she'd left. I was furious!

[kalanamak]

Once your friend decided to text you drunk, all bets were off. SHE opened the door to all that happened. She needs to woman up and straighten herself out. Blaming others for her reckless actions is childish.

 

:iagree: I had a nurse who was very upset we "brought her suicidal gesture" to work, but my goodness, after she overdosed, she CALLED us at work. We sent 911 over there like any normal human beings.

 

M's talking through her bottles. Don't expect this to get better without sobriety.

[Cindyg]

"You know what, M? I was afraid for your life. I did what I thought was right at that moment. I'm sorry it is causing you problems that I didn't anticipate."

 

Only once did I have a relationship with an alcoholic, and it just got more and more complicated. It was a relief to me when it ended.

[Julie in CA]

I actually think that calling P was appropriate actually. In some states you can be legally held responsible if you know someone is driving intoxicated and do nothing about it - even if you are not actually with that person. Since P is also an attorney, she would be well informed of the laws in their area. Not to mention she would be available after hours, on a holiday, when other attorneys would be difficult to call for advice. Unless the OP knew another attorney, this was her best choice. And, in a panic, one doesn't always think clearly.

 

I guess I was looking at it differently. If I knew a friend were possibly planning to drive drunk, it would definitely not occur to me to call an attorney. A cab, yes. The police, possibly. The bar manager, maybe, but I wouldn't be looking for an attorney.

 

As I said, I don't blame the OP, but...well...I wouldn't call someone who already hard feelings about the other party, when they couldn't really do anything to help. What would be the point?

 

Anyway, it's ok for us to disagree, and I'm just tellin' 'ya that if I know you're inebriated, I'm not gonna call a person who already has something against you for advice or....whatever. I might, however, come on down and :cheers2: (and then pour us both into a cab!) ;)