Please help me teach my 6 yo son to be considerate...

[Jumping In Puddles]

My dh, dd, and I are all considerate so it's not like he is copying us :confused:

 

Some examples: He walked into the locker room last week and a kid was standing in front of a locker and he walks by and slams this kids locker shut (with a big grin on his face) :glare: Then the kid had a hard time getting it open again because the latch was broken. I made him apologize and when we got home he was put straight to bed (no book, no dessert, no game)

 

He was at a cub scout pack meeting and while he was sitting next to his friend, he turns and spits on the kid! Again, a big grin like he is playing. I went over, made him apologize, got his coat and we left the pack meeting to sit in the car (dh had to stay as he is a leader).

 

Some other things he does is stuff like knock a tower down that another kid built... stuff like that.

 

It is like he does this stuff on impulse (he is generally VERY impulsive) because he thinks it will be fun or funny. He does not do it to be mean... even the spitting. He really likes that kid and how could he not see that even though it seemed like fun for a second that the other kid wouldn't think it was so funny? :confused::confused: He seems to think that if he walks over to another kid and wrecks what that kid was doing, that the kid will join in and they will have a big laugh over it... but since that is NEVER what happens, why isn't he learning?? :crying:

[Joanne]

It is like he does this stuff on impulse (he is generally VERY impulsive) because he thinks it will be fun or funny.

 

The level of impulse control and the specifics of the behavior seem out of the range of normal for his age.

 

Is it possible you are dealing with some level of special needs?

 

Regardless, he needs some constant level of social and behavioral coaching. It seems like in addition to his impulse control issues, he does not have an age appropriate intuitive awareness of normal and acceptable. When a child is like that, we have to teach them things most kids "get" without being told.

[Peela]

Joanne sounds spot on to me, but I just wanted to say that I have a kid who is not generous or considerate by nature it seems, and he has just taken a lot of patience and unconditional love to parent and no matter the outcome, he is loved and cherished and hopefully one day that will blossom in his heart. Because I dont think a kid chooses to be like that- it's his journey, and of course you have to deal with it- but I don't think kids deliberately choose to be like that. They need very, very patient and caring parents who can walk the road with them.

[kalanamak]

Conversations modeled in Raising A Thinking Child addressed this for us.

[Jumping In Puddles]

The level of impulse control and the specifics of the behavior seem out of the range of normal for his age.

 

Is it possible you are dealing with some level of special needs?

 

 

Thank you for your response Joanne. Since his behavior is not normal, then what kind of special needs would I be dealing with? Is there a test I can take? Should I ask his doctor? His Montessori teacher told me he should be in school to help with his self control and consideration issues with a "formal teacher" and, I of course, disagree but I'm not sure what to do about it.

 

He is right where he should be with his 1st grade material and he loves learning but if I don't sit with him, he won't do it. He will doodle all over his paper.

 

 

 

They need very, very patient and caring parents who can walk the road with them.

 

Thank you. :grouphug: I appreciate your comments!

 

Conversations modeled in Raising A Thinking Child addressed this for us.

 

I'll try this, thank you for the recommendation.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Oh gosh, after googling impulsive, ADD came up and that is not something I would have labeled him because he is not hyper-active. Also does having ADD make the child have issues such as spitting on another kid and thinking it's good fun?

 

He is definitely not anti-social. He loves to have interaction with others and loves babying all animals and is so gentle with them and when other people are actually hurt, he is the first one there trying to bandage them up and make sure they are ok. He is extremely cuddly and inquisitive and actually takes his toys to wrap them up as presents to give to his friends because he thinks they would like them. If someone is sick, he runs for his crayons to make them a get well card.

 

It's just that when he does play, he does things that are inconsiderate and he doesn't think that what is fun for him isn't fun for the other kids. :confused: We have been over, endless times, about "how would you feel if someone did that to you???" which gets the quiet response (through tears) of "not good".

 

Anymore help or input is appreciated.

 

Thank you. :grouphug:

[Alessandra]

The level of impulse control and the specifics of the behavior seem out of the range of normal for his age.

 

Is it possible you are dealing with some level of special needs?

 

 

I'd tend to agree with this -- not just because of the behavior, but also because you are giving ds consistent consequences, & that is not having an effect. It doesn't sound like a parenting issue.

 

I'd want to see a professional sooner rather than later. Your ds's type behavior is common in a number of situations -- for example, AS as well as ADD/ADHD. Not getting social cues can be an Aspergers/AS characteristic, but many other special needs kids - even those with relatively minor learning disabilities - can have trouble with social cues. Many kids want to be social, but are completely clueless without step by step instruction -- I know lots of special needs kids like this. Plus, a child can have more than one diagnosis. Just don't try to diagnose ds yourself, no matter how tempting!!

 

Have you cross posted on the Special Needs board?

 

One of the best bits of advice I ever got was to see professionals in more than one speciality -- for example, a developmental pediatrician, a neurologist, a psychiatrist, etc. They can all have different viewpoints. Once you get a diagnosis, you can get treatment -- and therapies can be very effective, especially if started when child is young.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Alessandra

[Lisa R.]

It is hard to get a complete picture of your ds over a message board. He sounds like he has issues with self control. I'd also try and look more objectively at this as you say he isn't being mean. The examples you describe are mean behavior. It is possible that he is simply socially unaware that this is mean, or he could be mean and it's hard to see that as a concerned parent. Again, it's hard for discern this over a message board.

 

Regardless, this child needs to be highly supervised. Perhaps he isn't ready to participate in Cub Scouts. Your dh may be a leader, but maybe he needs to step down so he can be by ds side. He shouldn't be in a locker room as you can't be there with him. When one has a child with poor impulse control, they need to be parented differently. Your child may not be able to do things other kids his age do. This isn't a failure on your part or necessarily something wrong developmentally wrong with him. He just may need more training and more time to grow up. When he asks why he can't go off and play like the other kids, I'd say that, "When I start seeing you make better choices and control yourself better, I'm happy to let you play with them without me. Until then, you need to be in my sight all the time."

 

Of course, I would let the pediatrician know so he/she can see any red flags. But first, I'd try parenting differently. I do commend you on not excusing or justifying the behavior and trying to respond quickly to it.

[Joanne]

Of course, I would let the pediatrician know so he/she can see any red flags. But first, I'd try parenting differently. I do commend you on not excusing or justifying the behavior and trying to respond quickly to it.

 

I believe I'd parent with more social coaching *while* getting professionally evaluated. There is no harm, in the presence of behaviors, in seeking trained and knowledgable information.

[Jan in SC]

A child does not have to be hyper to have ADHD. He might have the impulse issues that go with it. Since he is not in a classroom setting, it might be more difficult to notice other characteristics, if he has them, as you might already be successfully adapting his environment without realizing it.

 

I wouldn't panic, but I would follow up with some testing, or at least meeting with your pediatrician or an educational or neuropsychologist.

[Lovedtodeath]

These behaviors sound very much like my DH. He has always suspected mild ADHD but never had any professionals look into it. Anyway... just a caution that some people do not outgrow it, no matter what the age. Just being married to me and working on it together has helped though.

[EKS]

Disclaimer: The advice below is not an example of modern PC parenting.

 

I'll tell you what worked here for somewhat similar behavior. The standard technique among both parents and teachers these days seems to be something along the lines of very calmly saying: "Now Johnny, you made the wrong choice when you decided to [do whatever]. How do you think that made the other kid feel?"

 

Well, this approach did *nothing* to change my kid's behavior. I actually think that it did quite the opposite: the use of the word "choice" made him believe that there was a legitimate choice involved, and the calm adult talking about feelings just reinforced the idea that nothing bad happened.

 

After I realized this is what was happening (and it happened to coincide with beginning homeschooling, so he no longer had a teacher using the "choices and feelings" technique when he misbehaved), I completely changed my approach to this sort of misbehavior. Here is what I would say (in a raised, authentically angry voice): "What the he** were you doing? What you did is completely unacceptable and here's why... If I ever see or hear about you doing whatever it was or even anything remotely similar to whatever it was, you will not be doing this particular activity again." This would usually take place in the car on the way home from the activity (that we had abruptly left). Then after I stopped being angry I would discuss how the other person must have felt and how he could keep from doing whatever it was again.

 

It took about a year to turn things around (from the time he turned 7 to when he turned 8). He has since been a very considerate person, to the point that people (like camp counselors and coaches) mention it to me.

 

My son is the type who needs a genuine and direct response to his actions, complete with genuine emotions prominently displayed. I still do this in other areas of his life when necessary.

 

BTW, he does have ADHD, but medication didn't cause the change in his behavior as we didn't start with medication until he was 12.

Edited December 22, 2009 by EKS

[sleepymommy]

My dh, dd, and I are all considerate so it's not like he is copying us :confused:

 

Some examples: He walked into the locker room last week and a kid was standing in front of a locker and he walks by and slams this kids locker shut (with a big grin on his face) :glare: Then the kid had a hard time getting it open again because the latch was broken. I made him apologize and when we got home he was put straight to bed (no book, no dessert, no game)

 

He was at a cub scout pack meeting and while he was sitting next to his friend, he turns and spits on the kid! Again, a big grin like he is playing. I went over, made him apologize, got his coat and we left the pack meeting to sit in the car (dh had to stay as he is a leader).

 

Some other things he does is stuff like knock a tower down that another kid built... stuff like that.

 

It is like he does this stuff on impulse (he is generally VERY impulsive) because he thinks it will be fun or funny. He does not do it to be mean... even the spitting. He really likes that kid and how could he not see that even though it seemed like fun for a second that the other kid wouldn't think it was so funny? :confused::confused: He seems to think that if he walks over to another kid and wrecks what that kid was doing, that the kid will join in and they will have a big laugh over it... but since that is NEVER what happens, why isn't he learning?? :crying:

 

Oh gosh, after googling impulsive, ADD came up and that is not something I would have labeled him because he is not hyper-active. Also does having ADD make the child have issues such as spitting on another kid and thinking it's good fun?

 

He is definitely not anti-social. He loves to have interaction with others and loves babying all animals and is so gentle with them and when other people are actually hurt, he is the first one there trying to bandage them up and make sure they are ok. He is extremely cuddly and inquisitive and actually takes his toys to wrap them up as presents to give to his friends because he thinks they would like them. If someone is sick, he runs for his crayons to make them a get well card.

 

It's just that when he does play, he does things that are inconsiderate and he doesn't think that what is fun for him isn't fun for the other kids. :confused: We have been over, endless times, about "how would you feel if someone did that to you???" which gets the quiet response (through tears) of "not good".

 

Anymore help or input is appreciated.

 

Thank you. :grouphug:

 

Both of these posts sound so much like my ds1. :grouphug:

 

I'm taking note of all the suggestions thus far. I've been at a loss as what else to do with him. He is very smart, very sensitive in other ways, very loving and sweet, but at the same time he, too, has little to no impulse control. This has been the case since he was about 15 months old. He behaves much better at home but as soon as he is in the presence of other people, he brain just flips a switch and he starts behaving so wild, and like yours he's not trying to be malicious but for whatever reason he thinks he's being funny and trying to make others laugh.

[sleepymommy]

 

My son is the type who needs a genuine and direct response to his actions, complete with genuine emotions prominently displayed. I still do this in other areas of his life when necessary.

.

 

This is true of ds1 too. I often see other parents gently telling their child with smiles on their faces not to do certain things, but my ds1 will not take me seriously at all until I put on a stern face and very mean voice. Needless to say, I look the the monster mom in public, but what else can I do? This is one of the reasons I avoid going out with him, I'd much rather stay home.

[bookmomma]

He is 6 yrs old, for starters. So his social skills are just developing. I had some things like this when my boys were younger. Things I did:

 

1. pulled oldest out of public school and any activities where kids behaved SO poorly and set bad examples. homeschool now. this helps tons.

 

2. talked about appropriate behaviors/responses in each and every case that occurred. And not later in the day--at that moment.

 

3. did "role playing" to practice acceptable behaviors.

 

4. constant reminding...

 

5. setting good examples for him to follow. use your best manners at all times and expect it from him. please, thank you, yes m'am, no m'am, etc.

 

My boys used to embarrass me and I felt like I couldn't take them anywhere. In fact, we did that. We stopped all outside activities for a while. I wouldn't even bring them to the grocery store. I said something like, "if you don't know how to behave in public, then I won't take you anywhere." But when you don't take them into these social situations, they don't have the opportunity to learn. Now, after working with them, they are some of the better behaved kids I see--when we go to the park, cub scouts, baseball, art class, stores, etc. I'm proud of my kids. They now point out other kids misbehaving. I simply tell them it's not what "we" do and we need to set a good example for them as well. They like being the "teachers" now.

 

good luck!

[LauraGB]

Disclaimer: The advice below is not an example of modern PC parenting.

 

 

After I realized this is what was happening (and it happened to coincide with beginning homeschooling, so he no longer had a teacher using the "choices and feelings" technique when he misbehaved), I completely changed my approach to this sort of misbehavior. Here is what I would say (in a raised, authentically angry voice): "What the he** were you doing? What you did is completely unacceptable and here's why... If I ever see or hear about you doing whatever it was or even anything remotely similar to whatever it was, you will not be doing this particular activity again." This would usually take place in the car on the way home from the activity (that we had abruptly left). Then after I stopped being angry I would discuss how the other person must have felt and how he could keep from doing whatever it was again.

 

 

My son is the type who needs a genuine and direct response to his actions, complete with genuine emotions prominently displayed. I still do this in other areas of his life when necessary.

 

 

 

So glad I'm not the only parent who uses this approach. With my ds (less so with dd - they are completely opposite individuals in nearly every capacity), blunt, to the point and shock on my part at the behavior works best.

[bookmomma]

"What the he** were you doing? What you did is completely unacceptable and here's why... If I ever see or hear about you doing whatever it was or even anything remotely similar to whatever it was, you will not be doing this particular activity again." This would usually take place in the car on the way home from the activity (that we had abruptly left). Then after I stopped being angry I would discuss how the other person must have felt and how he could keep from doing whatever it was again.

 

 

hahaha. I did this a few times, too. But showing our anger only teaches them that we--the parents--have no self-control, so why should they? I always *try* to react as calmly as possible. I pull them in close and whisper in a very serious tone about what they are doing wrong.

 

Forgot to mention...when they did misbehave in public, they were immediately reprimanded, scolded, and we left. I had to leave my cart full of groceries on more than one occasion.

[EKS]

But showing our anger only teaches them that we--the parents--have no self-control, so why should they?

 

I completely disagree. There's nothing wrong with being angry and showing it. Showing anger is not the same as a lack of self control.

[SonshineLearner]

I completely disagree. There's nothing wrong with being angry and showing it. Showing anger is not the same as a lack of self control.

 

I have a 6.5 year old. He's not "bad" he's just 6. Two summers ago...he spit for the first time on someone... that we kinda knew... not mad... just spit. The second time.... I can't remember when... he was "in trouble". He bit twice at the park... (wouldn't you know.. a homeschool day) I didn't take him back, it didn't work for him. It was too big of an age span... he couldn't deal with the "game" that they were playing with big kids... and I didn't think it my job to change the game. (Big kids...pirates... holding little kids hostage)

 

And... he kicked and hit.... once each... last year.

 

I think he's VERY active. I am VERY patient... There are HUGE consequences for him when he "misbehaves" and I think in school he'd be on meds... or the teacher wanting him to be. But, at home, I have the opportunity to allow him blossoming time. Time to be disciplined into the man I know he can become.

 

SO... I'm only stern (my mom says not to say "mean" because I just try to talk "sternly") when he is "violent" or "dangerous". The little kid going crazy part... I just try to make safe.... I try to kindly remind him of social cues... And... I try not to sound like a grumpy mom.

 

I find that if I remind him of rules BEFORE we get into the situation, and ask him what I've said.... that it helps.

 

I also find that when I can find physical labor for him, that he can behave better. (Bring in 5 loads of wood) I limit his sugar and such, as it has a huge impact on him. BUT, I make him take responsibility for his behavior so it's not just... "it's the sugar".

 

BTW... I agree about showing Anger... it's not the emotion that is bad, it's what you do with it, that can be bad. It can also be good:-)

 

Carrie:D

[eternalknot]

6-8 seems a tricky age for some kids.

 

My son really benefitted from our reading together bits and parts of a book written to parents. It's called the Unwritten Rules of Friendship, and I've seen it at libraries and on Amazon but never at standard bookstores.

 

He has always been an empathetic person, so for him the standard reactive punishments to poor social behavior never really worked. That and he was never really attached to any material things that taking them away would prove any "lesson" to him (and IMO, this was a good thing despite it being more of a challenge for me to discipline him - which, again, ends up being a better thing in the grand scheme of things). He has to SEE ... in the moment ... how his behavior is affecting the people around him. Not just the affected child, but me and others as well.

 

Like a few more recent posters' kids - my son needs to see that raw reaction to the things he does, for it to register to him that it's not funny, even if that was his intention. He just basically needs to be figuratively hit over the head with things that are seemingly obvious - like people don't think it's funny to be spit on. Or that some people might think it's funny to spit on people (as he may have seen someone do elsewhere, or on tv - bullies? siblings at a park?) but that the person spit upon does not find it remotely amusing. Once he's been jolted by a reality check, we can calmly discuss what happened and also alternate scenarios.

 

As a rule I stay clear of parenting type books, and never have recommended any other to anyone. I read through the book I mentioned above, and found chapters relevant to my child's issues. I created a loose curriculum around each issue that needed addressed, and incorporated it into our schoolday. We focused on roughly one issue a month, and worked proactively to remedy his social issues. Again, for my child it was important to be proactive rather than reactive - he needed time to process things in advance, and to have regular practice using the social tools I was trying to provide him with. It's like he was hit with the Clueless Stick when he was born, and just needed extra hand-holding to learn how to navigate social waters.

 

Six was a really hard year for us. He's now nine, and people who knew him then are blown away by his transformation. People who didn't know him then don't believe the stories they hear about how he used to be. Some of this has been just maturation, some of it has been what Peela says about having a certain kind of parent. He'll always struggle with some impulse control, but he's better equipped to recognize it and handle it for himself - both before he does something, and afterwards if he hasn't controlled the impulse.

 

It sounds like your son has a good heart, and isn't mean-spirited in his social ills; that says a lot about him and your current parenting strategy.

 

Good luck finding something that works for you :grouphug:

[Joanne]

I completely disagree. There's nothing wrong with being angry and showing it. Showing anger is not the same as a lack of self control.

 

I agree. While I certainly don't agree with yelling at kids as routine, regular "discipline", I do think that reacting to the situation authentically is appropriate. I'd be disgusted if my school aged child spit on someone and I'd tell my child that.

 

I also have one child and have had others in my daycare that don't respond to "nice" or "modulated" and they require stern. That tone would destroy my dd but there are times that one of my other children needs firm, stern response that might seem harsh from an observer's perspective.

[Alaska Mom]

He was at a cub scout pack meeting and while he was sitting next to his friend, he turns and spits on the kid! Again, a big grin like he is playing. I went over, made him apologize, got his coat and we left the pack meeting to sit in the car (dh had to stay as he is a leader). :crying:

 

Sitting in the car, your such a mean parents! IMHO, your kid doesn't need a doctor's diagnosis but a firm, attention getting consequence for bad behavior! Obviously sitting in the car and going to bed without his book and dessert isn't getting his attention.

 

Normal kids do sometimes behave badly. Before you go running off to have him professionally "diagnosed" try sitting him down and explaining the consequences for bad behavior; clearly explain what "bad behavior" is and your expectations. When he breaks your expectations, implement a serious consequence that will "rock his world".

 

Here's an example from my life:

A friend's ds is "by nature" very selfish. Not getting dessert on the days he was "bad" was not enough to get his attention. He's the youngest of 4 boys and to get his attention the parent's made him be "last" in everything, and I mean everything. And this went on for 2 months. He wasn't even allowed to get up from the dinner table until he asked if there was anything anyone else needed (he's 7). He and his brothers are the most loving, considerate and hands down the happiest and best behaved children you've ever seen. The credit goes to good parenting.

[Lovedtodeath]

Normal kids do sometimes behave badly. Before you go running off to have him professionally "diagnosed"

:iagree:ITA! It is good to see you btw. :)

[Hedgehogs4]

It is hard to get a complete picture of your ds over a message board. He sounds like he has issues with self control. I'd also try and look more objectively at this as you say he isn't being mean. The examples you describe are mean behavior. It is possible that he is simply socially unaware that this is mean, or he could be mean and it's hard to see that as a concerned parent. Again, it's hard for discern this over a message board.

 

Regardless, this child needs to be highly supervised. Perhaps he isn't ready to participate in Cub Scouts. Your dh may be a leader, but maybe he needs to step down so he can be by ds side. He shouldn't be in a locker room as you can't be there with him. When one has a child with poor impulse control, they need to be parented differently. Your child may not be able to do things other kids his age do. This isn't a failure on your part or necessarily something wrong developmentally wrong with him. He just may need more training and more time to grow up. When he asks why he can't go off and play like the other kids, I'd say that, "When I start seeing you make better choices and control yourself better, I'm happy to let you play with them without me. Until then, you need to be in my sight all the time."

 

Of course, I would let the pediatrician know so he/she can see any red flags. But first, I'd try parenting differently. I do commend you on not excusing or justifying the behavior and trying to respond quickly to it.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I'm a little surprised at how quickly the hive was suggesting this child has some disorder! What he is doing does not sound that weird to me. What he sounds like to me is someone who really likes to have attention focused on him and getting a rise out of people is a good way to accomplish that. It is inappropriate, it does need correcting, it does need your constant vigilance, but it does not need you slashing his self-esteem by labeling and drugging him.

 

It sounds to me as if you are directing him well. Conversations before going into situations about being considerate and thinking before acting may help him engage his brain first before he does something silly might be a place to start. Actions that we tend to find highly offensive as adults may or may not be received with the same level of severity by kids. i.e., give him some grace but continue to be consistent and vigilant. He may just need a little more time to mature socially before going to cub scouts or other activities. This is not a bad thing.

 

Please, don't slap a label on your son and run him off to get some ritalin because a bunch of women online who have never met your son, who have they observed his behavior over time, who do not hold degrees (i'm supposing) or specialize in diagnosing childhood disorders, have told you there could be something wrong. Listen to your own intuition, pray about it, see what the next couple of months hold, then make those kinds of decisions.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Wow, a lot of things to think about... I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my thread. :grouphug:

 

I'd also try and look more objectively at this as you say he isn't being mean. The examples you describe are mean behavior. It is possible that he is simply socially unaware that this is mean, or he could be mean and it's hard to see that as a concerned parent. Again, it's hard for discern this over a message board.

 

I know it sounds mean, but objectively, he really thinks it is fun and he is surprised that the other kid doesn't think it is so fun. It *is* mean, but he doesn't see it as mean, he actually thinks he is playing. If he were being mean, he would shove a kid because he wanted to hurt the kid... but in his case he would shove a kid and hope that kid would shove him back and then they could have a grand old time pushing each other around. I tell him "if it is NOT fun for everyone, then it is NOT fun! Got it?" I ask him to think about the other person and don't do it if they don't like it. It's like he doesn't know what other kids like.

 

 

Both of these posts sound so much like my ds1. :grouphug:

 

I'm taking note of all the suggestions thus far. I've been at a loss as what else to do with him. He is very smart, very sensitive in other ways, very loving and sweet, but at the same time he, too, has little to no impulse control. This has been the case since he was about 15 months old. He behaves much better at home but as soon as he is in the presence of other people, he brain just flips a switch and he starts behaving so wild, and like yours he's not trying to be malicious but for whatever reason he thinks he's being funny and trying to make others laugh.

 

THIS IS EXACTLY MY SON. EXACTLY. (sorry for shouting but that is it.. he thinks he is being funny and he wants people to laugh) I want him to see that no one thinks it is funny.

 

I'd be disgusted if my school aged child spit on someone and I'd tell my child that.

 

I was disgusted and I did yell at him but when we got home and dh closed the door behind him, my son burst into tears and my dh told him it was disgusting, he was disappointed in him, he was embarrassed, he asked him how he could be so happy to play with this kid... and yet actually do something so mean as to spit. My ds was sobbing. 1 week later, I caught my son pretending to spit on someone. Nothing came out of his mouth, so maybe he realized he can't actually spit but he can't pretend to either. Ugh.

 

Sitting in the car, your such a mean parents! IMHO, your kid doesn't need a doctor's diagnosis but a firm, attention getting consequence for bad behavior! Obviously sitting in the car and going to bed without his book and dessert isn't getting his attention.

 

 

 

Oh, well see above where my dh had him sobbing by the end of the night. But honestly, the two things my kid loves more than anything is dessert and reading. Being read to is his "thing". He would have me read to him for hours if I could. He has an audiobook on his CD player at all times. So for him, these were torture. He did get yelled at. I suppose telling him he can't do cub scouts anymore would be a pretty severe punishment and it may come to that.

 

BTW, thank you for your example and other advice too!

 

 

Please, don't slap a label on your son and run him off to get some ritalin because a bunch of women online who have never met your son, who have they observed his behavior over time, who do not hold degrees (i'm supposing) or specialize in diagnosing childhood disorders, have told you there could be something wrong. Listen to your own intuition, pray about it, see what the next couple of months hold, then make those kinds of decisions.

 

Thank you, I am happy to receive advice from other people because they may have children that sound just like mine and maybe something will click with me. I won't rush out to medicate him, for sure, but I am going to try to work with him and watch him closely and have him evaluated if I think I need to. It does help to hear what others are saying. My mom keeps saying that he's a boy and he's 6 and he's sweet and he'll get over it but she is not especially objective. :tongue_smilie:

[FriedClams]

My dh, dd, and I are all considerate so it's not like he is copying us :confused:

 

Some examples: He walked into the locker room last week and a kid was standing in front of a locker and he walks by and slams this kids locker shut (with a big grin on his face) :glare: Then the kid had a hard time getting it open again because the latch was broken. I made him apologize and when we got home he was put straight to bed (no book, no dessert, no game)

 

He was at a cub scout pack meeting and while he was sitting next to his friend, he turns and spits on the kid! Again, a big grin like he is playing. I went over, made him apologize, got his coat and we left the pack meeting to sit in the car (dh had to stay as he is a leader).

 

Some other things he does is stuff like knock a tower down that another kid built... stuff like that.

 

It is like he does this stuff on impulse (he is generally VERY impulsive) because he thinks it will be fun or funny. He does not do it to be mean... even the spitting. He really likes that kid and how could he not see that even though it seemed like fun for a second that the other kid wouldn't think it was so funny? :confused::confused: He seems to think that if he walks over to another kid and wrecks what that kid was doing, that the kid will join in and they will have a big laugh over it... but since that is NEVER what happens, why isn't he learning?? :crying:

 

For my 2 cents - it doesn't sound like he's being inconsiderate, he's being mean. Not abnormal mean - just 7 year old boy mean. With my kids I let them know that I don't care "why" they did something - it's mean if the person you hurt thinks it's mean. Motive is irrelevant. I would address the behaviors immediately and decisively - if you are unkind at this meeting you will apologize, make restitution and we will leave immediately. I would discuss why this is an issue and why, in 3-4 years, no one will want to play with him because he puts his desires before everyone else. I would also set up a game where you catch him putting other before himself. When my kids were little we used m&ms and I would give them one every time they served others. When this monster rears itself in our home now we earn paper clips. Just something fun to celebrate serving others. You can do it easily at home or let him know you'll be watching him out on the town and catch him doing it right (holding doors, picking up something an adult dropped, etc.).

[Alaska Mom]

:iagree:ITA! It is good to see you btw. :)

 

Good to see you too! :grouphug:

[Jumping In Puddles]

For my 2 cents - it doesn't sound like he's being inconsiderate, he's being mean. Not abnormal mean - just 7 year old boy mean. With my kids I let them know that I don't care "why" they did something - it's mean if the person you hurt thinks it's mean. Motive is irrelevant. I would address the behaviors immediately and decisively - if you are unkind at this meeting you will apologize, make restitution and we will leave immediately. I would discuss why this is an issue and why, in 3-4 years, no one will want to play with him because he puts his desires before everyone else. I would also set up a game where you catch him putting other before himself. When my kids were little we used m&ms and I would give them one every time they served others. When this monster rears itself in our home now we earn paper clips. Just something fun to celebrate serving others. You can do it easily at home or let him know you'll be watching him out on the town and catch him doing it right (holding doors, picking up something an adult dropped, etc.).

 

I see what you are saying, he is actually being mean and it doesn't matter why... but he is not being mean so that someone will be upset with him, he is being mean because actually thinks he is being funny. Not that it makes it much better to the person on the receiving end but at least he doesn't want people to be angry purposely.

 

Is there a difference between a kid who does something because he thinks the other kid really wants to play that way and a kid who does something because he wants to make someone else feel bad? Maybe the end result is the same but wouldn't it be a different issue entirely if he is being mean because he likes to hurt other people? I am just trying to get a handle on what my son's problem is but honestly, maybe it doesn't matter... maybe I should just keep discipline and practice and rewards and punishments regardless of WHY he is doing it. Thank you for you post, it is making me think more deeply about this.

 

Also, I like the game idea, and I'm going to start using that. Thank you!

Edited December 22, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[FriedClams]

I see what you are saying, he is actually being mean and it doesn't matter why... but he is not being mean so that someone will be upset with him, he is being mean because actually thinks he is being funny. Not that it makes it much better to the person on the receiving end but at least he doesn't want people to be angry purposely.

 

Is there a difference between a kid who does something because he thinks the other kid really wants to play that way and a kid who does something because he wants to make someone else feel bad? Maybe the end result is the same but wouldn't it be a different issue entirely if he is being mean because he likes to hurt other people? I am just trying to get a handle on what my son's problem is but honestly, maybe it doesn't matter... maybe I should just keep discipline and practice and rewards and punishments regardless of WHY he is doing it. Thank you for you post, it is making me think more deeply about this.

 

Also, I like the game idea, and I'm going to start using that. Thank you!

 

I agree - there would be a MUCH greater issue if the intent were hurtful. BUT, even though the intent isn't hurtful - having fun at someone else's expense is mean. [Ask me how I can articulate this so much.... I live with a 7 year old boy and after tight reign on this issue for over a year we're seeing great progress.] If he were intending to be mean - then I would take more of a discipline route. You do x - then y. And y would be unpleasant and impacting. With the game, and some discipline when the rules are clearly outlined and you know he knows what the expectations are, then it's more training than discipline. By training it's an emphasis on service, love, empathy, compassion, "How do you think it feels to be x when you did this to him...". There is some discipline - but mostly lots of word pictures, putting him in the other person's shoes (when he does nice things and mean ones), etc. Does that make sense?

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree - there would be a MUCH greater issue if the intent were hurtful.

I disagree. There are wife abusers who never knew they were hurtful. There are neglectful parents who never knew that they were hurtful.

 

Yes there are. I have known them personally, their victims are very much scarred, but they were clueless.

[Joanne]

I disagree. There are wife abusers who never knew they were hurtful. There are neglectful parents who never knew that they were hurtful.

 

Yes there are. I have known them personally, their victims are very much scarred, but they were clueless.

 

I'm trying to put words in response to this.

 

I guess I'll have to give a very qualified agreement. I didn't know, for example, that yelling at my kids = abuse (at the frequency with which I was yelling).

 

I also know that when a person experiences severe abuse, more subtle abuse becomes normalized and so I can see where a spouse, raised in a bad environment, does not see the power and control in some of their behavior.

 

That said, I believe most peer abuse and most child abuse to be intentional.

[Joanne]

Eh. And while I am back posting in this thread, I just want to say that I do find a 6 year old spitting on another child to be outside normal social interaction and the OP speaks of his impulse control issues.

 

I am not offering a specific label, I'm not suggesting meds. I am suggesting that perhaps their are behaviors that should be considered as "more" and might be worthy of professional evaluation.

 

:chillpill::chillpill::chillpill:

[Jumping In Puddles]

6-8 seems a tricky age for some kids.

...

He has to SEE ... in the moment ... how his behavior is affecting the people around him. Not just the affected child, but me and others as well.

 

Like a few more recent posters' kids - my son needs to see that raw reaction to the things he does, for it to register to him that it's not funny, even if that was his intention. He just basically needs to be figuratively hit over the head with things that are seemingly obvious - like people don't think it's funny to be spit on.

 

It sounds like your son has a good heart, and isn't mean-spirited in his social ills; that says a lot about him and your current parenting strategy.

 

 

I don't think I responded to this earlier, but thank you for your post. I need to make him see how his behavior effects others because he clearly doesn't see it on his own.

 

It's funny that my ds does not have material attachments to anything either. He loves sugar, which I try to limit for obvious reasons and he loves being read to. I could take away everything else and he won't care which does make it harder to threaten him with taking something away. Actually, the other thing he loves is playing with other kids and I've told him that NO ONE is going to ever want to play with him. He sheds a tear over it but then does stuff again, like he can't seem to help himself. (which obviously he needs to learn to help himself). Thanks again for the great post. :)

[Garga]

Oh gosh, after googling impulsive, ADD came up and that is not something I would have labeled him because he is not hyper-active. Also does having ADD make the child have issues such as spitting on another kid and thinking it's good fun?

 

 

According to this from webmd, there are three different types of ADHD. Some include hyperactivity and some don't. So, your sweetie could be calm, but still have the impulsive side of ADHD. But perhaps not enough to medicate.

 

I'd try the behavior training first. My ds7 seems to have issues with the hyperactivity and impulse control, but not the inattention. We've been trying to be proactive by discussing proper behavior ahead of time. It's tough, though, because you never know what weird inappropriate behavior they'll pull out of their hats at any time. How were you supposed to know to say, "Oh, and if someone's locker is open, don't shut it."

 

I wish I had more advice, but I think we're someone at the same stage, you and I. My son thinks things are funny that just aren't (like the spitting. Why is it that they all like to spit?? What's up with all the spitting!!!?)

 

This isn't the answer, but it's a glimpse of an answer: we've been reading the book The Essential 55 about a teacher who taught his 5th graders 55 basic manners. Some of the manners were more "class" oriented (about grading each other's papers w/o writing mean comments on the top), but many are just basic manners that we can all use (like using sir and ma'am, and giving eye-contact when you're talking to someone.) This book doesn't cover every topic (like spitting!) but it has opened my ds7's eyes to the fact that there are certain behaviors that are better than others, and he seems to be sloooowly improving.

 

Maybe I'll go get an etiquette book out the library and go over it with him. Maybe kids need to see that there are official standards we all adhere to, before they start to stop and think before they act.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Garga