PineFarmMom Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a neighbor situation that has been ongoing for over a year now. We were involved in a less-formal church for a while, and the mom of the neighbor kids started going and got involved. Since then she has remarried and stopped going while we have moved on to another church that fits us more. This was a good move for our family, as there are a lot of kids in this church that are good for my own kids...my kids have had a harder time finding like-mindedness here in the area we've moved to. There are a lot of homeschoolers and the church is very much about learning the Bible and just more rigorous in its teaching than what we had before...we love it and feel we've found home!! Well, since starting, the two neighbor kids go to church with us and the parents don't/won't come. I know one reason is that it's less casual, clothing-wise, than the other one and they feel they won't fit in. The problem is, I feel the dd is using us to get to church because there are "cute boys there" and to be with my dd as much as possible. She is a very hyper, silly-headed, overly-flirtatious teenage girl who is the exact opposite of how I'm wanting dd to be or how dd is, for that matter. Flirting and nonsense are the name of the game for her. In the process, having just started this church, dd is being seen by the other kids at church as a package deal with this girl because we always bring her. Dd gets embarrassed by her loudness. I've seen some of the girls at church that dd really likes just run for cover when this girl comes. The difficult part is that I realize church is a good place for her and I'm willing to take her if her parents don't want to come, but for dd this church is also a place where she's getting involved and meeting a bunch of more like-minded kids than she has before. Honestly, with us homeschooling, I think that is really important for her. This girl has a pattern of trying to own my dd, horning in on her life in a manipulative fashion, etc. It's happened before and I had to step in and make the decision for dd to back away. I really think the girl is using us and this is another way for her to try to be involved in all aspects of dd's life AND to make church a place to meet boys. But how do you handle it when you're talking about church?? In. any. other. situation, I would stop taking her and lay better boundaries, but this is harder. If we weren't taking her to church, she wouldn't be going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ah......you got me. You are right. This is an extemely difficult situation. I don't have any clue what I would do. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Are there youth leaders you could pass this buck too? This is a very difficult situation and I think it's one that you will not be able to fix. Either dd is finally going to say what she thinks (reality check for the friend who thinks she is the cat's pajamas) or else whomever is in charge of dd's friend's Sunday school will finally decide to have a talk. I've seen girls like this one at our church :( No one says anything, and I think they're all thinking the same things I am (where are her parents, I can't say anything, I don't even KNOW her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysparkler Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ah......you got me. You are right. This is an extemely difficult situation. I don't have any clue what I would do. Sorry. :iagree: How is communication with your DD? Is she mature enough that you could discuss it with her and see what she thinks? I always try not to underestimate how perceptive kids can be with things like this, yet they still tend to surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I've seen girls like this one at our church :( No one says anything, and I think they're all thinking the same things I am (where are her parents, I can't say anything, I don't even KNOW her). This is one issue I'm having with the area we've moved to from where we were. It seemed that most of the parents I knew or was involved with in the city we used to live in cared very much about what was going on in their own dc's lives. I don't see that here. I wind up being the only one, particularly in our neighborhood, who even cares. It has put us in positions that I find quite frustrating!! At this point, dd is not permitted to go anywhere with this girl without us being involved. I wish parents could see how their own lack of parenting affects others!! Dd did tell me that she has told the girl to be quiet at church before when she was just over-the-top. I'm going to pray with her over the situation. This is already starting to look like an answer to prayer because dh and I have not been crazy about this girl for a while, and I think dd is seeing exactly the problems I have with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ack. That is a sticky one. :( All I can think of doing is seeking counsel from one of the elders/pastors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 :iagree: How is communication with your DD? Is she mature enough that you could discuss it with her and see what she thinks? I always try not to underestimate how perceptive kids can be with things like this, yet they still tend to surprise me. We do talk about it and she does see. She knows and has known how dh & I feel about the girl for a while. She is torn. Sometimes this girl is a friend to her and sometimes she is a nuisance. She told me last night that she wants to go to an upcoming church function and not take this girl with us so she can have some time to just talk with some of these other girls on her own, without this girl glued to her side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysparkler Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 We do talk about it and she does see. She knows and has known how dh & I feel about the girl for a while. She is torn. Sometimes this girl is a friend to her and sometimes she is a nuisance. She told me last night that she wants to go to an upcoming church function and not take this girl with us so she can have some time to just talk with some of these other girls on her own, without this girl glued to her side. Good for her! She is a level headed girl, so I wouldn't worry too much about the influence this girl may bring. She may need you to step in at some point and be the "bad guy" so that she doesn't have to. Perhaps a talk with the youth director could be a good step too. What a tough situation you have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Texas T, I'd tell the neighbor girl exactly what you told us. It may be a wake-up call/harsh reality moment for her but she might also use it as a turning point in her life. I'd also not let her sit next to your dd in the service. Let her sit with your family but not next to dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tell her if she can't straighten up her act and behave herself you'll leave her at home. I wouldn't sacrifice my dd for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tell her if she can't straighten up her act and behave herself you'll leave her at home. I wouldn't sacrifice my dd for her. :iagree: While it's wonderful you've been willing to take her to church, it is ultimately her parents' responsibility and your dd is yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I agree with the direct approach suggested by Remudamom. As teens and old enough to flirt, I think you can flat out tell her. "You attend church with our family. We have rules and a focus on God. I need you to participate in maturing your focus and honoring these rules or it will not be appropriate for us to continue to bring you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Take the fact that this is CHURCH out of it. There are many places to go to church. The kid is using you and you CAN set better boundries. It's okay. If she really just wanted to be involved in CHURCH she can find one somewhere else or have her parents take her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 If she really wants to go, and if her personality is as "strong" as you describe, then ceasing to be her transport may be a good thing, because she can then pester her own parents into taking her. I am sorry you are faced with this, it is a sticky situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I agree with the direct approach suggested by Remudamom. As teens and old enough to flirt, I think you can flat out tell her. "You attend church with our family. We have rules and a focus on God. I need you to participate in maturing your focus and honoring these rules or it will not be appropriate for us to continue to bring you." This is good. I agree with all of you that suggested this approach. Dd and I discussed it this a.m. a little more after her Bible study, which oddly enough, had the focus on the holiness of God and having reverence for him. It was convicting, for me, that we need to reverence God in the place of worship, in speech & actions. Making that a rule for our family and anyone that would go with us would be key. It's funny how this is starting to work together for me with that legalism thread. I realized that THIS is becoming more of a conviction than just me being annoyed by a teenage girl's behavior. I have a feeling of obligation to take these kids to church with us. Their mother is a Christian, knows the truth, has gone to church in the past, and is choosing to just be lazy at this point and not take them. This isn't an unchurched neighborhood kid who we are reaching out to. We are basically doing the job that their parents know to do but aren't doing. This passes over into other areas of our neighbor relationship with them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 That is very hard, but one thing I do know is that as long as someone wanted to come to church with me, and would not go if I did not take them, I would take that person. Whatever else you decide to do, or however you decide to handle it, I hope that you will keep taking her to church. Even if you suspect that she has improper motives in coming to church, you never know when the Lord might use something in the service to speak to her, and change her heart! I was raised in a non-Christian home, and I started going to a Bible study when I was 14, just because of the boys who were there. I remember people being really annoyed with me there, too! :tongue_smilie: I didn't have pure motives for being there, but over time, God broke through to me through the teaching at that Bible Study, and I came to true, saving faith in Him!! I look at my life now, with all the blessings God has given me over the years, and now raising children in the faith, and marvel that my whole journey started with that Bible Study, and my silly boy-crazy ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Can you take her alternate weeks, or even just once a month? Can you ask a church representative to visit the girl's family, and maybe prod the mother out of laziness? I had a friend like this in middle school. She was already promiscuous and SEEMED interested in only attending church for the boys. In reality she was very interested in learning more about our faith, she just didn't feel comfortable in her "own skin" so just kept acting out in the way she did outside of church. The way she felt people expected her to act, particularly us kids who also knew her from school. A church representative became a sort of mentor to her, including having her sit with her during worship after several weeks of getting to know one another. Maybe this girl needs an older teen/young adult female mentor to take her under her wing until the girl shapes up at church OR decides she no longer cares to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Can you take her alternate weeks, or even just once a month? Can you ask a church representative to visit the girl's family, and maybe prod the mother out of laziness? I had a friend like this in middle school. She was already promiscuous and SEEMED interested in only attending church for the boys. In reality she was very interested in learning more about our faith, she just didn't feel comfortable in her "own skin" so just kept acting out in the way she did outside of church. The way she felt people expected her to act, particularly us kids who also knew her from school. A church representative became a sort of mentor to her, including having her sit with her during worship after several weeks of getting to know one another. Maybe this girl needs an older teen/young adult female mentor to take her under her wing until the girl shapes up at church OR decides she no longer cares to go. :iagree: Hubby was a jock and popular at school... crude behavior and foul language. He never went to church. Saw cute girls at a youth group and decided to attend. Hung out with the cute chicks long enough to hear the gospel message and got saved. LOL Now he is a die-hard "Jesus Freak" -- missionary and ordained Pastor. He laughs over his intro to Christianity... God can use the flesh to draw them closer to Him! (BTW, I'd get someone else to take the girl to church if it is not a true friendship... but DD needs to be the one to decide this. She needs to have a heart-to-heart talk. The neighbor girl may just lack social skills?) Edited October 13, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Could you maybe only give her rides on Sunday mornings? Not agree to take her to any events? Then, you're still taking her for church... but if she wants to do anything fun with the group, she has to find her own ride and won't be seen as being glued to your DD? I agree with others... this is a super tough situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tell her parents that their dd needs more guidance than you can give her at church and one of them has to come. Surely they can put on a clean shirt once a week and not foist this on you. If they ask you why, tell them point blank that their dd is exhibiting a great deal of normal interest in boys and you feel strongly that one of her parents should be very involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tell her if she can't straighten up her act and behave herself you'll leave her at home. I wouldn't sacrifice my dd for her. :iagree::iagree: This is good. I agree with all of you that suggested this approach. Dd and I discussed it this a.m. a little more after her Bible study, which oddly enough, had the focus on the holiness of God and having reverence for him. It was convicting, for me, that we need to reverence God in the place of worship, in speech & actions. Making that a rule for our family and anyone that would go with us would be key. It's funny how this is starting to work together for me with that legalism thread. I realized that THIS is becoming more of a conviction than just me being annoyed by a teenage girl's behavior. I have a feeling of obligation to take these kids to church with us. Their mother is a Christian, knows the truth, has gone to church in the past, and is choosing to just be lazy at this point and not take them. This isn't an unchurched neighborhood kid who we are reaching out to. We are basically doing the job that their parents know to do but aren't doing. This passes over into other areas of our neighbor relationship with them as well. If your taking her dd to church is simply allowing the mother to be 'lazy' or 'fall away', then you need to do this family a favour and quit taking her. Its better for her to be in attendance with HER family than with yours...for her sake as well as your dd's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a feeling of obligation to take these kids to church with us. First of all, let me say that I think your heart is in the right place and your sentiment is lovely. BUT... your dd comes first. This neighbor girl is preventing your dd from making new friends and enjoying herself at church, and that's not fair to your dd. You are not responsible for this other girl; she is not your daughter, and whether or not she attends church isn't your responsibility. It seems pretty clear that the main reason she wants to attend church with your family is so she can flirt with the boys. If she were truly a religious girl and would be heartbroken if she couldn't attend church, my advice would be different, but as it is, she's not gaining anything by attending with you, because her focus isn't on God. She might as well spend her Sunday mornings at the local mall, if all she wants to do is flirt with the boys. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but this girl doesn't sound like a good friend for your dd, and her behavior may be reflecting very poorly on your family, and your dd in particular. Other families that don't know you very well, may privately believe that your dd is just as frivolous and inappropriate as your neighbor's girl, because they are always together at church. Also, because you bring the girl with you to church every week, it would certainly appear to most people that this girl is far more than a casual friend of the family, but more like a member of the family. I'm sorry to ramble about this, but I truly believe that you're doing your own dd quite a disservice by trying to help the other girl, particularly when she isn't going to church for the right reasons, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda1951 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) I agree with many that have said to just lay down the boundaries. But, immature as she is, be ready for her to maybe put your dd in a difficult position by complaining to her about it. I would first talk to dd about what you've observed--the behavior, the horning in on her life, the fact that other kids in the church seem to have an aversion to her behavior and that could adversly effect dd's reputation in the group. Let her know what you're wanting to talk to her friend about and let her have some input about it. I've had this conversation with my dd15 and also about putting down boundaries with her friends about the way she is treated at times. If your dd is a part of the conversation regarding boundaries and she knows you are supporting her, if her friend comes to her with complaints about what you say, she might be able to stand up better. Oh! And don't forget to pray together about it! Blessings! ETA: I've found that the most I've learned about myself in life is dealing with really difficult people. It's good for our dc to have us guide them through dealing with such people, as they will not go away when we grow up, unfortunately! I agree that you need to talk with the friend, absolutely. Edited October 15, 2009 by Dayle in Guatemala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks, everyone, for the responses. Update: Dd had a pretty embarrassing evening with the girl last night at church. Basically, she has picked a boy follow around, is sticking to him like glue, and seems unable to recognize his disinterest. Dd sees and realizes how this is affecting herself, the boy, and some of the other kids at church. She feels humiliated at being seen with her and has chosen to deal with it in her own way first, which is one-on-one with the girl, then she wants me to get involved if need be. I'm respecting her wishes on this for the moment because 1) she seems to want to try to handle it quietly and 2) Her maturity and wisdom is shining through in this situation and I want her to know she has the ability to handle tough stuff with parents who will back her. My big concern, at this point, is for this boy that she seems to have attached herself to. She is more than likely affecting his worship time with the Lord and I'm not going to have that!!! Period! I also worry for her...she is so terribly young to be heading so strongly in this direction. :( I'm just trying to decide how long to wait and who to talk to first, her mom, the mom of the boy, or the youth minister. I'm thinking I'll discuss it with the mom, but her dc manipulate her easily. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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