I'm hoping I'm not the only one...

[LunaLee]

2hrs for Saxon...every day since we've started using it...:banghead:

 

That is all.

[farmgirlinwv]

We usually spent about 1 hour, but I skipped some things.

[Ellie]

Even a hour would be too long for me.

 

Jann in TX says you don't have to do everything, that you're supposed to do just what *your* dc need.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's like when I used to think of composing, copywork editing, spelling, and grammar as all part of writing. Then, of course, writing took forever.

 

But once I separated those from each other, so that they were separate subjects, we all felt better about it. Because we had gotten a bunch of subjects done quickly.

 

It's a mind game.

 

Same with Saxon.

 

There is facts practice. There is mental math. There is lesson training and lesson practice. And there is review work. Then there is correction and retraining. If you think of it that way, you have gotten 5 lessons done in just 2 hours! Voila, you are efficient!

[Moni]

2hrs for Saxon...every day since we've started using it...:banghead:

 

That is all.

 

Which book?

Does he know his math facts?

 

We do math facts only first (no math books)

All of them. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division

 

And then start into Math 54 as the first math book.

Takes about :25 then.

 

Sounds inviting?:lol:

 

Came back to add.

We also homeschool the first couple years as academic foundation.

Year 1 - Learn to read, read more, read well, read 3 times a day (do this for a decade)

Year 2 - Learn to write letters, copywork (doubles as memory work) (daily for five years, copywork/dictation/written narration)

Year 3 - math facts, all of them, no math book.

Year 4 - Saxon Math 54, independently, every problem, every correction.

 

So

Year 1 (age 4....or 5.....or 6 )

-Just Reading, three sessions daily Morning, noon, before dinner.

 

Year 2 (age 5....or 6.....or 7 )

Reading - for a second year

Writing - begin

 

Year 3 (age 6....or 7.....or 8 )

Reading - for the 3rd year, three sessions daily.

Writing - for the 2nd year Daily, copywork (doubles as memory work)

Math - first time doing math, facts only, first all with flashcards, then with pencil

 

Year 4 (age 7....or 8.....or 9 )

Reading - daily for the 4th year

Writing - Daily for the 3rd year

Math - for the second year, begin Saxon Math 54

 

Student has facility in reading and writing, and knows all their math facts already. Math 54 takes about :25 minutes at this point

 

You can change around the ages, but we find this academic "foundation" prepares the student well for 2nd grade work and beyond

And takes very little time for the earliest grades.

 

With different academic foundation (reading, comprehension, facility with pencil, mastery of all math facts), tasks such as Saxon Math 54 can take longer.

 

So it can be likely very Reasonable for Saxon to take 2 hours.

If you want it to take shorts, I would suggest dropping it for math facts only first, and then starting up again.

 

You'll have so much more time available in your day. :)

:seeya:

Edited August 27, 2009 by Moni

[Brindee]

My dd would rebel. She's good at math, but doesn't like it. We ended up with about an hour, sometimes a little less, and she doesn't like it even that long!

 

I hope you can cut some things out, or assign every other problem, or something to cut down on the amount of time!

[tullyfamily]

The length of time it took to teach & do Saxon was one reason that lead me to investigate other math curr. (That and the tears... oh, and the fact that my dd knew her facts but had no clue as to the why...) When I had to start teaching more than 1 child math, it was SO TIME CONSUMING!!!

[Moni]

I hope you can cut some things out, or assign every other problem, or something to cut down on the amount of time!

!

 

Oh, I hope you don't.

 

If it's taking that long, he needs more practice, not less. ;)

 

:seeya:

[Moni]

The length of time it took to teach & do Saxon was !

 

Teach Saxon ? ?

 

Saxon is independent Math 54 and up through Calculus.

 

Teach math facts only first, all of them, and omit

Saxon K, 1, 2 and 3

 

It will take zero teaching time.

Well, a few minutes to mark the wrong ones for your student to re-do. ;)

 

Sure it saves some teaching time in Math 54, but there are 8 more years after that.

The time saved over 9 years....

:seeya:

[Guest]

I would never spend two hours on math. We use Math U See and Mondays are our longest day which is maybe 30 minutes maximum. Tuesday through Friday math only takes about 10-15 minutes. Maybe you can just set a timer for 30-45 min and then pick up where you left off the next day. Or, switch math programs.

[Lori in MS]

My son is doing Saxon 8/7 with dive cd and he takes 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours on most days.

 

We are going to stay with it as it is totally independant, I do like MFW's lesson plans that go with each book. After the first 10 lessons if the child is making more than 80% they reduce the number of problems for each lesson. For example, he does 1-9 and evens for 10-30. It is not the same everyday so they really have thought through which problems are the most important to do. This has motivated my son to be careful to keep his grades up so he doesn't have to work as long each day.

[Brindee]

Oh, I hope you don't.

 

If it's taking that long, he needs more practice, not less. ;)

 

:seeya:

Not neccesarily. My dd took forever with each lesson the year she did Saxon. NOT because she needed more practice at all, but because she just did.not.like.Saxon! I worked with her a lot, and came to the conclusion it was NOT her not getting it, it was her being frustrated with the program! If I would've given her MORE work, it would've been disastrous!

 

I will change what I wrote to say: If you know that he is understanding the concepts, but it is still taking this long, THEN try doing every other problem. If he gets it, there's no used beating it into him with so very many repetitive problems!

 

Where you DON'T want to skip anything is when he just doesn't understand it and needs the repetition to get it solidified!

 

Hopefully that clears up what I MEANT to say the first time! :001_smile:

[kls126s]

Saxon took us forever too, and this mom could only take so much crying before she was ready to bail. Tried it all - all oral, timers, skipping problems...

 

We ended up going to Horizons math and it's much better now.

[Brenda in FL]

We are another family that does not do all the problems. I assign approx. 15 problems: Any problems that cover two or more lessons/investigations), all the problems relating to the days lesson and and the prior lesson, and then I pick and choose form the rest to try to get a good variety from day to day.

 

So far we have not had to do the lesson practice. The children are supposed to read the lesson themselves, if they don't get it on their own, I'll walk them through a couple of the examples or lesson practice problems to help them out.

 

So far Saxon math has been successful in this way.

 

Sometimes we don't get the warmup done - then we'll just double up the next day.

 

They are anxious to do their fact sheets each day, because they get small candies depending on how many they complete!

[Guest alxfergi]

You guys are scaring me. I did Saxon 3 last year and am about to start 5/4. My dd,8, hates math but is good at it. When she is in a good mood or when I have something to bribe her with (like a play date or other treat), she breezes through, taking about 20-30 mins. When she is in a grumpy mood (most days lately) she can take about an hour. But two hours!!!!!!! My goodness, that I couldn't take. I like the idea of sifting through the questions and picking the ones she should do, and also using a timer. I think I will try both of these if we run into any problems with time.

[gingersmom]

I am on my third year of Saxon Math (2, 3, 5/4 and my daughter just started 8/7) and neither of my children spend more than 30 minutes on math.

 

Not sure what I am doing different.

 

We love love Saxon Math!!!

[LunaLee]

It's like when I used to think of composing, copywork editing, spelling, and grammar as all part of writing. Then, of course, writing took forever.

 

But once I separated those from each other, so that they were separate subjects, we all felt better about it. Because we had gotten a bunch of subjects done quickly.

 

It's a mind game.

 

Same with Saxon.

 

There is facts practice. There is mental math. There is lesson training and lesson practice. And there is review work. Then there is correction and retraining. If you think of it that way, you have gotten 5 lessons done in just 2 hours! Voila, you are efficient!

 

Oh well, when you put it like that, then heck yeah! We got a lot accomplished today.:glare::001_smile:

 

Well you know it's like 10 minutes for the drill sheet 20m for the mental math and lesson/lesson practice and then like 1.5 hours for the mixed practice and the correction of the mixed practice. Plus throw in some dawdling and there's your morning.

 

I'm not switching programs because we just switched from Singapore and we'll probably go back to Singapore when we are done with 6/5 in February because we are just really taking a break from Singapore, but wow.... I chose Saxon because it was exactly what he needs and in the long run it will be fine, but because this is a new program for him it will take some time to adjust. I just hope I can make it that long.

Edited August 28, 2009 by LunaLee

[Vida Winter]

I dislike Saxon 1-2-3 but love 5/4.

 

So I'll only speak about 5/4 through 8/7, the only texts I've used so far. I only assign problems that seem to be giving my dd trouble and of course the problems that are a new concept. The tests are a good tool to find out which problems merit spending time on, and you can also tell by grading daily work. If you are willing to put the time into figuring out what your child needs, Saxon can be accomplished quickly and easily -- I'd say more quickly and easily than other math programs because the constant review and testing will help you determine problem areas.

[Annabel Lee]

Saxon took us forever too, and this mom could only take so much crying before she was ready to bail. Tried it all - all oral, timers, skipping problems...

 

We ended up going to Horizons math and it's much better now.

 

:iagree:My oldest ds started Saxon 2 when I pulled him out of ps at semester in 1st grade. I should've put him in Part 2 of the student book or Saxon 3 (he missed only 1 problem more than he should have on the grade level evalution). Anyhow - we didn't like it. It moved too slow; at a snail's pace; having waaaay too much repetition (which made it seem like busywork) for my ds. I switched him to Horizons in 2nd grade and we're still happy with it. Horizons has speed drills, flash card work, and review much like my beloved Abeka math (that I grew up on), but it just fits my sons better.

[Annabel Lee]

Which book?

Does he know his math facts?

 

We do math facts only first (no math books)

All of them. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division

 

And then start into Math 54 as the first math book.

Takes about :25 then.

 

Sounds inviting?:lol:

 

Yes... parts of it are intriguing to me. We've slowed math down w/ ds8 for the time being to focus on math fact memorization (I want instant recall! Is that too much to ask? :001_huh::lol:). I've got some questions:

 

1. Do you really not start 2nd grade materials until age 9? I assume ideally your plan would be started at age 4 or 5, so that Year 4 would happen when "2nd" or "3rd grade" normally does. You mention doing Saxon 5/4 directly after year 4, so that means math is not at 2nd grade level. Please elaborate. :) If I ever had the guts to drop everything else & do this, I'd feel like it's too late; my kids are already to old to stop everything and start something like this. My oldest son is 8 - that puts him at 12 years old once he has finished Year 4. I assume you do not mean for this to be started in the middle. Plus, what about history? Science? Grammar? I don't know if I could let go. :D

 

2. When you are teaching just the math facts, no math books, do you teach or show the kids what those facts mean or represent? It's not all just lists of numbers & operations w/ rote memorization, or is it?

 

3. When they start into Saxon 5/4 (or something equivalent) after Year 4, do you find that you have to spend extra time explaining some of the peripheral concepts usually taught in the earlier years? Such as measurements, time, money (I suspect those 3 would have to be taught to some extent just for regular everyday life), pre-algebra concepts (ex. 3 + n = 12), place value, ordinal numbers, geometry, fractions, decimals, graphs, area, perimeter, volume, ratio, etc. All those types of things don't take up tons of extra time in 5/4 since the child has only been taught basic facts?

 

Thanks, and I hope I don't come across as snarky. This idea really does interest me but I want to know more about how it pans out when the kids are older. Oh, and sorry to the OP for the hi-jack.

[meet me in paris]

Oh well, when you put it like that, then heck yeah! We got a lot accomplished today.:glare::001_smile:

 

Well you know it's like 10 minutes for the drill sheet 20m for the mental math and lesson/lesson practice and then like 1.5 hours for the mixed practice and the correction of the mixed practice. Plus throw in some dawdling and there's your morning.

 

I'm not switching programs because we just switched from Singapore and we'll probably go back to Singapore when we are done with 6/5 in February because we are just really taking a break from Singapore, but wow.... I chose Saxon because it was exactly what he needs and in the long run it will be fine, but because this is a new program for him it will take some time to adjust. I just hope I can make it that long.

 

I switched my younger to Saxon 3 this year from Singapore, and the two programs are SO different. My dd loves Saxon, but it does take us at least an hour to do math every day. The thing is, though, she's not complaining - and she's learning tons. Singapore was *not* working for her. So it may just be that Saxon isn't right for your son. Why are you taking a break from Singapore?

[Moni]

I should clarify

"Reading" includes

reading about History, Science, Literature, Usborne/Kingfisher, Libary books, religion , http://www.LivingMath.net

 

So all the subjects are still covered and learned.

[LunaLee]

Why are you taking a break from Singapore?

 

Because we had reached a point where his brain wasn't able to make the connections between the abstract and the concrete in order to progress with the program. He loved Singapore, but as we moved further into 4a he just wasn't able to connect the dots. I'm hoping after we finish Saxon he'll be ready to continue in Singapore.

[langfam]

We used Saxon for 11 years. My first two dc always worked on the same level of Saxon. It would take them a couple of hours everyday to do the problems especially in the higher grades. My dd who is in college now, says she would wake up every morning with a deep feeling of dread at the thought of having to do another Saxon problem set that day. She is a very obedient child and did not verbalize this to me for years. She always scored A's on her Saxon tests, so I assumed she was really good at math. Come PSAT time, she was already 1/2 way through Advanced Math, I discovered that she had memorized algorithms with no real understanding of how to problem solve. This was not the case for ds, Saxon worked well for him, but I think it was because he uses math in personal everday activites/projects. I've come to the conclusion that spending hours on math is not necessarily the best way to learn math. I think brains do shut down after an hour or so. For my other kids I try to mix it up. Do some drills, yes, but not overkill and add Singapore for problem solving. And we split up our math time to 2 sessions.

[katilac]

My dd, 6th, is doing 8/7. In the past, we used a mix of Saxon and Singapore.

 

We have a newer edition, so I can easily see which lesson each problem is taken from. I eliminate a lot that she does not need extra practice on, so she winds up with 20 to 25 total problems each day. Math usually takes about a half hour per day.

 

Her scores are consistently high, so I feel comfortable with not assigning every problem. I do give her some practice even when 'not needed,' just not as much as Saxon calls for.

 

It motivates her to work carefully, because if she makes too many errors, she not only has to rework those problems but additional ones.

[tdeveson]

We started with Saxon Math in first grade. Within one week, ds was in tears when he saw the books. The relentless, mindless repetition made him hate it. I stuck it out for a month (which in retrospect was a huge error) and ended up having to drop math altogether for several months while ds got over his visceral hatred of the subject.

 

Once ds was decompressed, we started with Singapore Math. That made all the difference in the world. DS loves it. We supplement with Teaching Textbooks which ds considers a "game."

 

IMHO, two hours spent on math every day is way too much unless your kids are loving it.

 

Hope you find a system/schedule that works out.

[Elizabeth Conley]

We invested huge bucks in Saxon for both kids, so we felt we had to follow through, even though the first month of 2 hour math lessons showed us it was going to be very, very, very unpleasant.

 

Mid year we switched to MUS. Now the kids fly through their Math, and they're starting to love it again. We supplement our MUS with daily exercises from Use It! Don't Lose It! workbooks, and those have turned out to be hugely popular as well. The kids fly through their Math in 20 to 60 minutes, depending on the degree of challenge. They show steady progress. Their standardized test scores are startlingly high.

[Cricket]

Oh well, when you put it like that, then heck yeah! We got a lot accomplished today.:glare::001_smile:

 

Well you know it's like 10 minutes for the drill sheet 20m for the mental math and lesson/lesson practice and then like 1.5 hours for the mixed practice and the correction of the mixed practice. Plus throw in some dawdling and there's your morning.

 

I'm not switching programs because we just switched from Singapore and we'll probably go back to Singapore when we are done with 6/5 in February because we are just really taking a break from Singapore, but wow.... I chose Saxon because it was exactly what he needs and in the long run it will be fine, but because this is a new program for him it will take some time to adjust. I just hope I can make it that long.

 

We are right there with you. We switched from Singapore to Saxon this year. Ds is doing 6/5. He takes forever! I recently gave him a time limit of 1 hour. If any isn't finished after that time, he has to do it later as homework. His biggest problem was lack of focus and dawdling. This solved most of that problem. Although this morning I was rather lax and let him finish up so it did drag on and then when I corrected his paper he didn't even do the lesson practice. ggrrrrrrr...... I'll go back to being very strict on Monday! It taught me a lesson. :)

[AngieW in Texas]

I had to take a break from Singapore with my youngest. She hit a brick wall in 3A. We flailed around with several other math programs a little over one year and then returned to Singapore with level 4A.

 

Professor B lasted less than 2 months. She did all of Moving with Math level B in 10 months. CLE Math lasted just one week. MathSteps lasted about 1 month.

 

Singapore is working well for her again. For 5th grade she did just 20 minutes of Singapore each day. She's going to 25 minutes this year for 6th grade. She also does Daily Math Practice from Evan-Moor each day. That should take less than 5 minutes, but sometimes it takes longer.

[zaichiki]

I think it was 4A when ds "hit the wall." He couldn't understand simplifying fractions or making two fractions into those with common denominators... well... not the way Primary Math was teaching it, anyway. So, we cut to Key to Fractions for 2 weeks. When we jumped back into 4A (same place we left off), he totally got it.

 

Sometimes they just need a different approach for a particular topic, not necessarily a whole different program.

 

I really think Singapore's Primary Math is the reason my non-mathy child is working at least a year ahead in math. He's 10.5 and halfway through 5A. So... if he was, by age, in 5th grade, that's about right on. But he's in 6th grade in school this year and I saw the textbook. He's learned all that stuff already. (This school will do Alg I in 8th grade, so next year is Pre-Algebra... and I think ds is about ready for that now, after completing Primary Math only through 5A.) I really think Primary Math is a strong program. And I LOVE the way they teach problem solving and out-of-the-box thinking. Don't give up!

[LunaLee]

I think it was 4A when ds "hit the wall."

 

Yep that's exactly where we hit that wall too, it was 4a but I don't even think he got past lesson 2...We both love this program, and we will go back to it, I just think he needed a different approach to math for a while.