Life after SOTW?

[caitlinsmom]

We are just starting SOTW 2 so this wont be an issue for us for a couple more years. However I wanted to start looking at other programs to see what is out there.

 

What is recommeded for 5-8th history studies? What have you had good luck with so far? Is there another program similar to SOTW for the next stage?

[jjcmehl]

:lurk5: I'm interested, as well. I own the WTM, but am confused about the plans ahead.

[phathui5]

We're looking at using Mystery of History for our next 4 year cycle.

[Brenda in FL]

We're going with History Odyssey.

[Calm37]

I finished with SOTW 4 this last year and for health reasons (I am just not up for planning this year) I decided to go with Sonlight for 6th and 7th grades. Guess what! They start back with SOTW 1 and go through the 4 books in the two years. I am NOT reading them again! So, anyway, we bought the CDs.... :-)

[jlovebaker]

it's intended for high schoolers and adults. I'm hoping she does the next one soon as I'd love to read them and then maybe even use them for the next round (we're on SOTW 3 right now).

[jibaker103]

I'm using Beautiful Feet and Spielvogel's World History: The Human Odyssey for a spine starting in 8th going through high school.

 

Jennifer

Mother to Noah Age 13

[EKS]

The Human Odyssey series from K12 is fabulous for the middle grades.

[Guest janainaz]

:lurk5:

[Truscifi]

Are any of these that have been suggested so far secular? I am also just on SOTW 2 but I'm a planner, so I have been thinking about what will come next. I would love something that goes more in depth but is secular.

[Staci in MO]

Love it. It's not for everyone, but it's been a great fit for my family.

[caitlinsmom]

My understanding is that TOG is only completed up to 4th grade. Am I wrong in this? I haven't checked out the program because I have been so happy with SOTW. Your thoughts would be appreciated. :)

[iwka]

TOG is K-12, all 4 levels study the same history period, but accordingly to their maturity and skills. There is also literature, writing, government, geography, philosophy, arts. Basically, after 3R's, you need to add math (plus maybe logic), grammar, science, and foreign language and you have everything ready to go. But you can also choose only the components that are useful to you and go with that. Many options.

 

I assume you've heard about their redesign program, which will be completed this coming year, as they are releasing 4 last units of Year 4 (20th century) in 2009/2010. The previous Classical edition is still used by many.

[Melissa in Australia]

we redo SOTW for logic stage, with all the extras recommended in WTM. for the rhetoric stage, we are using a combination of spielvogel western civ , and HOAW. I really wouldn't recommend using history of the ancient world with logic stage kids.

[EKS]

K12's Human Odyssey is secular.

[KarenNC]

History Odyssey is also secular.

[elfgivas]

we're going to try History at Our House this year. he has added in geography and art history each week as well, so we're excited :001_smile:.

[Laura W.]

We're using Biblioplan and really enjoy it.

 

Blessings,

 

Laura

[samba2nite]

Jana - I'm joining you:lurk5:

samba in sac

[mom2denj]

I finished with SOTW 4 this last year and for health reasons (I am just not up for planning this year) I decided to go with Sonlight for 6th and 7th grades. Guess what! They start back with SOTW 1 and go through the 4 books in the two years. I am NOT reading them again! So, anyway, we bought the CDs.... :-)

 

I have a friend that is starting SOTW with her 6th and 7th grade children. I keep seeing that people with very young children are using SOTW. I also know that my dd will be using this next year with Sonlights Core 6. I am confused to how this can be used for 2nd, 3rd and 4th graders, but also for 6th and 7th graders. Could you give me some insight since you have done both??

[Annabel Lee]

I have a friend that is starting SOTW with her 6th and 7th grade children. I keep seeing that people with very young children are using SOTW. I also know that my dd will be using this next year with Sonlights Core 6. I am confused to how this can be used for 2nd, 3rd and 4th graders, but also for 6th and 7th graders. Could you give me some insight since you have done both??

 

Well here's my thoughts on that. When they are young, SOTW is the main history you're using. If you get a couple of the add'l reading books from the list in the AG, great. If not, they still get a very good overview. Do some activities from the AG at this age to make what they learned more concrete in their minds (vs. an abstract story that they do nothing with). Do the coloring pages & mapwork. There's your grammar stage history, nothing more needed.

 

Fast forward to logic stage. I would think SOTW used here would be more of a jumping off point vs. the main thing. I would still do SWB's recs on outlining from an encyclopedia. I'd add meatier books (Landmark, Hakim, Miller, etc.) for extra history reading; same with literature from that era. I'd make clearer & deeper connections between the subjects within that same era (fine arts, science, etc.). You'd definately have to beef it up. That's how I'd do it if I used SOTW for cycle 2. Is this how SL does it? I haven't looked at their 6th & 7th grades at all. I haven't read logic stage in WTM either, just skimmed it. :)

[lulubelle]

According to the WTM, you do SOTW again for 4th grade through 7 (using the test booklet here). Then, use her adult version for high school. I'm assuming, since I haven't read the high school section, that there are some written chapter reports in this section. She has it very well planned out.

[Rhondabee]

We started SOTW-1 when my boys were in 2nd and 5th. They're now in 6th and 9th; we finished SOTW-4 last year. I used part of SL Core 6 to get us through Year 2 - LOL!

 

Some differences between using it in grammar vs. logic in our experience are:

 

SL Cores 6 & 7 (one way to do it) does two SOTW versions a year, and adds in other books (the Genevieve Foster books, I think). It has related readers and read alouds which help add to the history "experience". There are no written assignments given (such as outlining or narration), but you can always add some in if you'd like. The pace is really fast - much too fast for an average elementary-aged dc. (My younger ds did part of Core 1+2 when I used Core 6.)

 

We did one SOTW volume each year, and really it was the "spine" - or, really, the Activity Guide was the spine. We started by having each dc read the pages in his own history encyclopedia (two different levels). The older child outlined and filled in a map. The younger just read and discussed, and filled in a map. Then, I chose to use SOTW to add some meat to that. (Invariably, there was always more info in SOTW than in the history encyclopedia.) I usually read SOTW to my younger ds, while the older liked to read it for himself. Then, we would discuss it, and they would either outline or write a narration, or use it to complete a R&S writing assignment. We added the Robert Johnston US History book to SOTW-3 and 4. Occasionally, I assigned books from the library. Occasionally, we watched a related movie. We sprinkled in some historical fiction amongst the lit choices in WTM, and read lots of historical fiction out loud. All in all, about 3 hours of work in history each week. It was a great first trip through history for both the kids.

 

My 6th grader will not be using SOTW-1 as a mom-given assignment this year, but I have it in his "book box" ready for him to use as a resource if he wants it, or if there's nothing else, or if he just wants to read it during his quiet time. We are really trying to stick to a WTM approach, and use the library to give him choices in what he wants to pursue this year. I'm still waffling between using my old KIHW and outlining from that (easier for me!), or using the Internet-Linked Usborne and outlining "something" every week (more interesting to ds).

 

There's really no "wrong" way to use it, as long as your dc is learning and growing while they are using it! (There are even other suggestions in the Activity Guides.)

 

SOTW was *perfect* for my older ds's first time through history, especially since he didn't get those stories in elementary school, and SOTW allowed him to see the "why's" behind history (the ideal goal of logic stage, I guess). So, I know I could definitely re-do SOTW with my younger ds, and he would learn at a much deeper level than he did the first time through. (Trust me, they "why's" were pretty much lost on him most of the time!) But, I think *I* am ready for a change - LOL!

[Avila]

According to the WTM, you do SOTW again for 4th grade through 7 (using the test booklet here). Then, use her adult version for high school. I'm assuming, since I haven't read the high school section, that there are some written chapter reports in this section. She has it very well planned out.

 

I am not seeing this at all in the book. I don't even see SOTW mentioned in the Logic Stage history section. She recommends one of several history encyclopedias starting in 5th grade through 8th grade and outlining as the main history in the 2009 version, at least. Are you thinking of something else maybe? Because even the grade levels you are using are one grade off WTM.

 

I was curious enough to look this up because my second DD is using SOTW for part of the Logic Stage, mostly because she really wasn't ready to start the history cycle before 3rd grade and I want to finish it with her instead of starting over in 5th. My plan is to keep using SOTW (and maybe order the test packet) where we are at but to start her outlining one of the encyclopedias once a week in 5th grade and to start following some of the methodology even if we aren't following the cycle completely with her.

 

ETA: My 5th grade DD is using HO Ancients 2, and we really love it. I think it is a very natural place to start Logic Stage history after SOTW, and it takes all of WTM methodolgy and breaks it up into bite-sized lesson plans for both of us.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Asenik

[Susie in CA]

It depends where you are in the history cycle and how old your kids are at that poing, imo. I would not use SOTW in the Logic Stage if I start with SOTW 1 in 5th grade. In fact my 5th grader is not using it. This is not because the information in it is not good or not enough but because the writing is to 'babyish' for him. The writing level does increase in the series, so if we were in SOTW 3 I would use it with a 5th grader. Does that make sense?

 

Susie

[Staci in MO]

My understanding is that TOG is only completed up to 4th grade. Am I wrong in this? I haven't checked out the program because I have been so happy with SOTW. Your thoughts would be appreciated. :)

 

TOG does not work at grade levels. Like SOTW, it takes four years to cycle through history. Each year plan contains literature, history, writing, geography, etc. for all ages.

 

To be more specific, for literature, history, church history, geography, vocabulary, and art there are four levels: lower grammar, upper grammar, dialectic (logic), and rhetoric (dialectic and rhetoric also have timeline assignments). There are also twelve levels of writing assignments (I personally don't do TOG writing, I use R&S and outlining, dictation, etc). TOG is just the guide, the reading is done out of books that are bought separately (similar to Sonlight or Biblioplan).

 

There are other bells and whistles than can be purchased separately. The writing guide is not essential to using the writing portion, but very helpful, and a CD that contains all the maps for the geography portion. You *could* pull together the maps for the geography on your own, but I'd hate to have to try.

 

The negatives are that it's not cheap. Each year plan is around $200. If you buy every single book, it will get *really* expensive really quickly. There is a LOT to do each week, and people who try to do every single thing often get overwhelmed. From upper grammar on up (roughly 3rd grade, depending on the child), it's designed for the child to do the bulk of the reading independently. It's not open and go. You still have determine which books your dc will read. And, the reading assignments are given in weekly chunks, so you will either have to break the reading assignments up in daily chunks or train your child to do this himself. You still have to add in grammar, math, science, (and if you want, latin and logic). Because of money constraints, the company has switched to digital, which can't be resold. That's been a deal-breaker for many people. They also break the four-year history cycle up differently than WTM. I like WTM's way better, but I love TOG enough to overlook it.

 

The pluses: It's non-consumable. When my youngest gets to seventh grade, I will only have to buy him a workbook for Latin and Logic, nothing else. Next year, when we do year 4, I will never have to buy another year plan again. If you have a good library, you can get away with buying much fewer of the books (I buy most of the books for dialectic, but mostly use the library for the grammar stage). Every week has extensive teacher's notes, so you can stay up to speed with what your dc are covering, and the teacher's notes walk you through a weekly discussion with your dc to help them tie all the loose threads together (hence the name Tapestry).

 

TOG has been a perfect fit for my family. I don't try to do it all (and I don't think you possibly could). Looking ahead, I think it's really going to come into its own in the rhetoric stage.

 

If you don't like to plan, and if your dc hate to read, TOG probably wouldn't be a good fit. I'm very happy with it.

[Rhondabee]

The information posted by Lauren is in the front of the Activity Guides for SOTW, at least in SOTW-3 and 4. Not sure about 1 & 2.

 

Here is a post by SWB from an earlier thread on the same topic.

[Avila]

The information posted by Lauren is in the front of the Activity Guides for SOTW, at least in SOTW-3 and 4. Not sure about 1 & 2.

 

Here is a post by SWB from an earlier thread on the same topic.

 

OK, that makes more sense to me! I was just trying to figure out what I was missing, but I haven't gotten the activity guide yet. I kept looking at the book like I was missing something.

 

Thanks for explaining that one. I think it will help me feel more rational about using SOTW when my DD is in 5th and 6th grade to finish off the series.

[Aletheia Academy]

I plan on using various resources recommended in Christine Miller's All Through the Ages and and Ambleside Online. We'll be doing 2 cycles rather than 3.

[Donna A.]

My Father's World schedules SOTW volumes 2-4, along with other age-appropriate resources, for the Logic stage in their years 3 thru 5. They also schedule "younger" resources for those who have Grammar stage children joining in.

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/2-8_home.htm#fiveyear

[lauracolumbus]

We'll be using SOTW again, but adding in more like Memoria Press' Famous Men Series and D'Aulaires. We'll also add in G. Foster's books and other longer texts and start outlining Kingfisher's spine.

 

I thought SOTW was a bit old for my youngers--even the first one.

 

Laura

[jibaker103]

Spielvogvel's World History: The Human Odyssey is a textbook and secular for high school. He also wrote Western Civilization which is a college level textbook that a lot of parents choose for AP history in high school.

 

Jennifer

Mother to Noah Age 13

[caitlinsmom]

Thanks for all the replies. I hadn't even thought of using SOTW over again but now that it has been mentioned I think it will be perfect! I pick up books here and there that are listed in the AG but they are way beyond my dc's level. Using those on the next rotation along with the encyclopedia reccomendations will work just fine and dandy. :) Thanks for all the other suggestions, I will definatly ponder those before making a solid choice.

[Greta Lea]

My 9th grader used SOTW from 4th-7th grade. He did a year of American History using History of US last year for 8th grade. This year for 9th grade he will use Notgrass Exploring World History.

 

Anyway, I also have a 6th grader this year. He started SOTW a little while after Christmas last school year. He will continue on with SOTW and finish the series in 8th grade. Instead of doing a seperate year for Am. History, I plan to weave more American History in with SOTW IV.

[caitlinsmom]

My 9th grader used SOTW from 4th-7th grade. He did a year of American History using History of US last year for 8th grade. This year for 9th grade he will use Notgrass Exploring World History.

 

Instead of doing a seperate year for Am. History, I plan to weave more American History in with SOTW IV.

 

I haven't looked at SOTW 3 or 4 yet, how well do they cover US history? I have seen quiet a few thread where parents have chosen to stop using them for a year to cover in depth US history. Is SOTW lacking in this aspect?

[KarenNC]

I haven't looked at SOTW 3 or 4 yet, how well do they cover US history? I have seen quiet a few thread where parents have chosen to stop using them for a year to cover in depth US history. Is SOTW lacking in this aspect?

 

I've found it to be so. For 3rd and 4th grade I have been supplementing with the Story of the USA workbooks from EPS as well as other reading.

[MomsintheGarden]

We use SOTW in 1st-4th grades, then my students do what the WTM suggests, outlining sections from the Kingfisher and reading additional books. I have them read a lot of books, such as Landmarks and others, to go with their history reading, that I've gleaned from the WTM, SL, and the VP catalogs. They read about 200 pages a week.

 

They also do a timeline. We've tried several different ones, but we like the History Through the Ages stuff the best.

 

I've done history through high school the WTM way with my two oldest, and currently my 3rd is in 6th grade. I think what most people don't like about the WTM way is that it is rather open-ended. I have had to make my own schedule for my logic and rhetoric age dc. It's been a lot of work, but very rewarding. I tend to tweak it a bit for each child, dropping books that weren't so great and adding others.

 

If you would like to see what I've done for scheduling, feel free to PM me. Please specify what year you'd like, 5th-12th.

 

HTH,

GardenMom