Still hunting for the "best" math...

[Euromom]

We are doing Horizons right now (2nd grade) . It's ok but I would like something with a better teacher manual .

 

I've look at BJU-the TM scares me :I am afraid it's too much teacher intensive.

 

Singapore it's just too strange to me , the student book is not colorful (which my son prefers)

 

CLE - has a great TM but the lessons are wayyyyyyy too long and too much repetition. I agree that in the grammar stage they have to memorize but CLE is just too much drill

 

Rod & Staff looks boring but the tm is great

 

Abeka looks very nice , colorful and interesting but again I am concerned the TM is too much and maybe they don't explain very well the whys of math ? I heard it's similar to Horizons.

 

McRuffy is nice too but sems a little slower than the rest .

 

Please help me choose one and tell me that one of these or maybe another one worked great for you and your dc.

[Leonor]

Have you looked at Professor B?

[blessedmom3]

never heard about Professor B but I will google it,thanks.

[TracyR]

BJU is not as teacher intensive as you think it is. It just looks that way. That is because the manual is made for a brick and mortar school and not homeschoolers. I began my homeschool journey with BJU math and at first I probably did do everything but as time went on I was able to pick and chose what I wanted to use out of the manual and if I felt I didn't need the manual to teach the concept then I just didn't use it. Math never took us long to do. I think maybe we spent a total of 10 to 15 minutes on it.

 

Really the best math program is the one that works best for your child. First you need to learn their learning style. Just because CLE looks like to much repetition to you it maybe just right for your child. One thing is for certain is that CLE math is EXCELLENT. My oldest does well with mastery math but we used CLE this year and her test scores were so much better then they ever have been in the past years. I was totally impressed. She would gripe at times with the repetition but it really did her good.

If you already know that reptition will drive your child nuts then BJU is an excellent program. Its similar to Singapore but the manual is very teacher friendly and I know my oldest absolutely loved math the years we used it. Actually I am going back , very hesitantly, this year to BJU 6. I really prefer CLE math because if they don't get those math facts down math will become a real drudgery in the upper levels. That is the problem I have with my oldest. The math facts weren't learned so though she knows how to solve the problem the solving takes her longer then she would like.

 

Honestly before giving up on a program give it a try it may work out better then you think. I know the first time I ever used BJU I was thinking " oh my goodness what did I get myself into." But after reading it. looking at the workbook and using the program. Then it all became much easier then I thought it was going to be.

Don't give up on a program until you've at least tried it.

 

P.S After level 1 the CLE math is independent for the child and the instructions are in the Light Unit. So its expected by level 2 and up that the child works on it themselves and comes to you with questions. CLE's Level 1 has never taken me more then 5 to 10 minutes (if even that) to teach. Ever!

and BJU maybe took me no more then 15 minutes to teach on any given day.

Edited August 2, 2009 by TracyR

[skaterbabs]

A note on the CLE math: while it looks like a lot when you consider how many pages per lesson (usually there are about three), at the early levels there is a lot of white space. Plus, just because the drill is there, doesn't mean you have to do ALL of it. We only do it when Dot is struggling, and thus far we haven't done even one of the timed drills. I don't see the point, so we don't do them. Flash cards get done about once a week.

[hmschooling]

Singapore is great with the HIG....after we did Horizons 2, we went into Singapore 2. Very easy and very short lessons. Also, Teaching Textbooks...after Horizons 2, you should be able to go into TT4 since Horizons is a little ahead, and TT is a little behind on average. We are going into Horizons 5 after Singapore 2, but using it along with Singapore 3A and Calculadders. All of these are EASY to follow teach and fun to learn from.

 

Even though I'm not using HOD this year, I use their manuals as my math teacher guide b/c they make it SO much simpler than even the Home Instructor Guides for SM. It's the same price for one year's guide with HOD as it is for one year's HIG's (2) from SM.

[Dobela]

I have started using BJU and love it. The TM looks intimidating, but it is really easy, and it is easy to just pick and chose what you want to use. Most importantly, my son loves BJU math and that means a lot to me.

[tinkgumby]

Have you heard of SRA Real Math? I first heard of it (well, the prior version, which was called "Explorations and Applications") at this review, when I was feeling dissatisfied with Saxon:

http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/books2y.htm

 

Here is a post where I rave about it:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=877657&postcount=49

 

I love it so much, I've already bought it all the way through 6th grade. :D

[Euromom]

Thanks all for your helpful info . I will look at all these programs.

[Storm Bay]

Well, in our house I don't let colour influence my choice except to limit it with my middle dd because it was too distracting.

 

Singapore Math is brilliant, although it is different than what you're used to. To be honest, the textbooks in the first couple of grades were too colourful for one of mine, but by gr 3, it's 2 colour. It was different for me, too. The HiG are a great way to become familiar with the Singapore Method. I was skeptical at first, but am now sold on the model method, for example.

 

Another really good program, but not colourful, is MEP, which is free online.

 

Heuristically, Singapore Math is one of the best ones out there. My kids are very good at thinking mathematically as a result.

[Evergreen Academy]

In past years I had used MCP and Saxon for an older ds and dd, but I started two of ours with Horizons K. One did great, the other was left behind - relying completely on the timeline for some pretty advanced K math topics, but not really "getting" any of it. We tried Singapore for him the next year and it went well, things clicked, but then it quickly jumped into multiplication in the 2nd grade year and this ds was still trying to figure out place value. We did a unit of Developmental Math, which helped him with that, and then he used an MCP text we already owned for the rest of the year. MCP is a great program by the way, solid, steady but yes, boring, and mastery where I think this ds might need spiral. Meanwhile, the other ds who'd started with Horizons was still plugging away at it, but the lessons had gotten very looooong, he was asking for a change, and seemed to need more review than simply drill. I started both ds8 and ds6 in different levels of CLE, and I am hopeful it will be a good fit. The lessons do seem long, but I am thinking my slower learner needs the spiral method if he's ever going to retain this stuff.

 

One year, with an older ds, we tried BJU, looking for something more "fun" than MCP or Saxon. I felt like I had to pull out all sorts of materials and supplements and worksheets all the time for the program to be complete, there were little stories that seemed unrelated to math, and the worst part - ds's test scores dropped that year. People seem to love it, but I can't recommend it based on our experience.

 

I wish I could be more clear but we are still looking for the perfect fit as well!

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages 6-18, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 6

[Storm Bay]

I wish I could be more clear but we are still looking for the perfect fit as well!

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages 6-18, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 6

 

 

For us, the perfect fit has been a combination of 2 programs. In addition to the SM, we do MUS. I find that MUS is excellent for place value, etc.

 

The combination, of course, will vary, just as the best method will. I have an IRL friend who just can't teach SM because math is not her thing. We are discussing getting together weekly, though, for her to teach writing and me to teach math (we have kids close in age and could split them up accordingly.) This will be great because I don't like to teach writing and she has a fairly math minded ds.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Karin

[lionfamily1999]

Math Enhancement Program (MEP)

 

it's free

 

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/default.htm

[LivingHope]

Practical Arithmetic is great for our family because it has a lot of word problems and is practically self teaching. We bought ours from Keepers of the Faith. The red book will provide an excellent foundation.

 

Janell

[SnowWhite]

I agree that BJU's TM is not nearly as hard to use as it might appear. It doesn't have to be super teacher intense at all.

[Homemama2]

I haven't tried the ones you've listed. We started with Math U See, which didn't work well for us, but I know is popular with alot of people. Now we use Rightstart Math, which uses alot of games and manipulatives. We like this, but I will say I have never found "the perfect math curriculum". I've considered combining math programs, but thats just too pricey for us right now. Good luck!

[Lovedtodeath]

We started out with Horizons and then MUS and we are now very happy with Abeka, and won't be planning to switch. It is similar to Horizons in that it is colorful and incremental/spiral (though a little less incremental). I would love mastery, but it does not work with DD. It is 100 times better than Horizons. The drill is done for you. The Curriculum Guide is awesome. Everything is spelled out for you. The Horizons TM is useless. They don't compare at all.

 

As far as the why's, I have no idea how a math program includes that, other than story problems. Some people claim this is MUS strength, and others say that MUS fails in this area, so I really don't know what to look for.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Haiku]

We use RightStart and we all love it.

 

Tara

[schsmom]

Yeah I'm with you. I haven't found the "right" math yet either. Singapore was too much for us,MUS just didn't like how they instructed.RS was way too much $. Saxon too intimidating...so we are stuck as well, I don't think we will ever have have a perfect one but one my kids don't fight about doing everyday in and out would be nice!

[Haiku]

You can find excellent deals on used RightStart books and manipulatives if you look on the Sale and Swap board here or on other used curricula sites. I have bought two levels used and each took me only a day or two of hunting to find deals of approximately 50% off.

 

Tara

[Storm Bay]

Yeah I'm with you. I haven't found the "right" math yet either. Singapore was too much for us,MUS just didn't like how they instructed.RS was way too much $. Saxon too intimidating...so we are stuck as well, I don't think we will ever have have a perfect one but one my kids don't fight about doing everyday in and out would be nice!

 

 

When you're ready for it, you might like the Life of Fred series. It's engaging, humouous, and well done. The first books are the Fractions and the Decimals, which are not stand alone courses. But the Beginning Algebra is great, and when combined with the Home Companion is a stand alone math program. We have about half a dozen Algebra 1 courses here, and LoF is one of the top ones, IMO, and it's the most fun text. It incoporates so many things, too, such as language, poetry, etc--it makes it something that applies to real life even though it's a story about a 6 yo genious.

 

As for not fighting about it, that hasn't happened here yet, and I think we have found great combinations for each of my dc because of how they're learning math. It doesn't mean they like it. My 14 yo likes math when she can do it for fun, but not when it's assigned for school. However, it has to be assigned so she gets it all covered.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Karin

[PeterPan]

Could I just add a couple things to the discussion? One, wanting shorter lessons might come back to bite you in the behind later. BJU, if you do all the pages they have scheduled per lesson, has just as much work as CLE or Horizons. I haven't looked at Abeka enough to know for sure, but given that they have a separate drills book (which we use and like), I'm guessing they hit that approx. quantity too. In other words, unfortunately, quantity is necessary in math. Ok, not for some genius kids who magically memorize their math facts. But in general, I think kids need a lot more time doing math, whether it's problems or fact drill or interesting application scenarios (CWP, Math Olympiad, etc.) than we think.

 

Two, math is very individual. Someone here had to toss a given math because it had too much color (distracting) and pitty stories. Well my dd loved that math for those very reasons, go figure. You have to know your kid.

 

Personally, I adore RS for the foundation it creates. Any other high concept-based program you like (MEP, Singapore, whatever) would accomplish the same thing. After that, from that 4th-6th grade period, you're really looking at lots of drudgery and practice. Then format and the method of the practice (all in one, broken into separate books, color on the page, interesting themes or bland) depends on the kid. But I say start off well conceptually when they're young and then find the drudge work that fits the kid.

[thowell]

i agree MEP my girls are loving it 1st and 4th grade!

[clementine]

We used MCP all the way through 6th - loved it!!! It isn't flashy, but it's a solid program that my kids responded to really well.

 

Good luck choosing :001_smile:

[DianeJM]

I agree with the poster who said you really do need all that drill (or almost all).

 

We really liked ABeka and used it for K-4th with all the kids. In the earlier grades the book is really cute looking, which my kids liked; the look of the student book was actually motivating to them.

And, the teacher manual is easy to follow, really easy. That is always a factor for me in whatever I choose.

 

The program is very thorough. Some don't like it because it is "advanced", and others have said that it's not advanced, it's "rushed". But this was not an issue for us -- we never get to the end of anything, lol! So, out of 170 lessons, in a good year we might get to maybe 140 or 150, and that has been just fine. They have all done well in their standardized testing.

 

Whatever program you use, you shouldn't skip the drill. The daily drill work is what will cement those facts; I learned that the hard way.

[Storm Bay]

Two, math is very individual. Someone here had to toss a given math because it had too much color (distracting) and pitty stories. Well my dd loved that math for those very reasons, go figure. You have to know your kid.

 

:iagree: You do have to know about your kids. OhElizabeth (sorry, but that's how I think of her from the old boards--sometimes the moniker becomes a person's name for me here) is the reason I bought RightStart Math a few years ago, but in the end, even though it's a great program, it wasn't for us. What are pitty stories?

[PeterPan]

Pitty stories? Well actually, I'm not sure pitty is a word, haha. It just fit what I was trying to say. I'm talking about stuff like the discources on wing design, the continuing saga of a girl getting her pilot's license, the types of clouds, that type of thing. Has nothing to do with the math, nothing at all, but my dd ENJOYS the stories. And that enjoyment carries over into her enjoying the lesson or the session more. It's pretty much the only part she looks forward to. :)

 

Now to figure out if there is such a word as pitty, or if I've invented it. ;)

 

PS. Now I remember where it came from. I watched Gone with the Wind this weekend and had Aunt Pitty on the brain. The stories in the math are sort of like Aunt Pitty: light, flitty, not connected to anything. :)

Edited August 5, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[Storm Bay]

Pitty stories? Well actually, I'm not sure pitty is a word, haha. It just fit what I was trying to say. I'm talking about stuff like the discources on wing design, the continuing saga of a girl getting her pilot's license, the types of clouds, that type of thing. Has nothing to do with the math, nothing at all, but my dd ENJOYS the stories. And that enjoyment carries over into her enjoying the lesson or the session more. It's pretty much the only part she looks forward to. :)

 

Now to figure out if there is such a word as pitty, or if I've invented it. ;)

 

PS. Now I remember where it came from. I watched Gone with the Wind this weekend and had Aunt Pitty on the brain. The stories in the math are sort of like Aunt Pitty: light, flitty, not connected to anything. :)

 

 

:D Okay, that makes sense. I haven't read that novel in decades and don't think I've watched the movie. If this is the case, I highly recommend Life of Fred for your dd when she is ready. Once you get to the Algebra level and beyond, it's complete as long as you get the other books to go with them. Even my 14 yo, who prefers the 1965 Dolciani Algebra text to Teaching Textbook loves the story in the Life of Fred (she's been sneaking the Geometry text when I'm not looking.) The author incorporates many things into the story and makes Algebra relate to real life, too. Something else my kids have really enjoyed are the Murderous Maths books, although those are just for fun, not for curricula.

[...................]

I feel your pain. I have not found the perfect math program either. We tried Miquon and it knocked my son's socks off. I should have stuck with it, but it was SO HARD for me to be consistent with it! I don't know why. I mean, open the pages, do two pages a day, and then drill later. How hard is that?

 

Oh well. Since then we've done Horizons K which was good,

MCP- dropped that because my son hated it and was failing miserably, and then went right into...

Abeka 1 - My son did fantastic with it! He got all 100's and liked it well enough but it felt like a memorizing machine factory over here for math.

 

Right now we are combining Calvert and Saxon and it's going pretty well but I don't know whether I will stick with Calvert. I will probably finish this year and then just stick with Saxon from here on out. It works, it makes sense to me, and my kids like it.:tongue_smilie:

[Caroline4kids]

These days I'm in love with Practial Arithmetic and Systematic Mathematics.

 

The elementary books are cheap, easy, and very easy to teach from. I don't start the first book until third or later though. My kids moved through it very quickly at that point and I love that I don't have to add anything!

 

I can't say too many good things about the older modules, but that is for kids 11 and up.:)

[PeterPan]

Karin-Ok, you've convinced me to get LoF!! :)

[Storm Bay]

Karin-Ok, you've convinced me to get LoF!! :)

:D I hope you love it as much as we do.

[cillakat]

Singapore is strange? Howso? I love it. We did a year/year and a half of RightStart Math which was massively helpful (I wouldn't do it if I didn't *have*tto) then we switched to singapore.

 

Looooooove Singapore. I had montessori through 3rd grade, then traditional private then public school math education and I don't find Singapore Math strange at all. Just fabulous.

 

:)

K

[pereztribe]

Hi,

I am a new Homeschooling mom, but I've had the same problem with choosing a math.

Did Horizons-she didn't like it. Moved to fast and she didn't master any of the concepts.

Did Math-u-See--too slow. Alpha deals with single digit addition only! Beta deals with single digit subtraction only!

Now, while I know she would "master" the concepts...she started hating math.

We went to the THSC Convention today and my family fell in love with Shiller Math. You can find it on www.shillermath.com .

 

The cost is $300..but you get a LOT! They also offer payment plans!!!

Hope this helps.

[Lovedtodeath]

Did Math-u-See--too slow. Alpha deals with single digit addition only! Beta deals with single digit subtraction only!

While we had the same problem with MUS, this is incorrect. Alpha is single digit addition and subtraction, and Beta is multiple digit addition and subtraction, with quite a few other concepts as well.

 

FWIW, we also did not like Horizons or MUS, but are very happy with Abeka. There is plenty of hands on and teacher helps.

[WTMCassandra]

Another satisfied Professor B user here. This math-phobic mom, thanks to Professor B, has NOT passed on her phobia to her two children! Professor B offers either scripted math books or CDs that you watch with your child. My mathy husband likes how he presents and reinforces concepts, and this mom loves that Professor B tells me exactly what to say.

 

We have used it all the way through our homeschooling years. My daughter will be starting Algebra very shortly. The only subject we need to find another curriculum for is geometry.

[Storm Bay]

Hi,

I am a new Homeschooling mom, but I've had the same problem with choosing a math.

Did Horizons-she didn't like it. Moved to fast and she didn't master any of the concepts.

Did Math-u-See--too slow. Alpha deals with single digit addition only! Beta deals with single digit subtraction only!

Now, while I know she would "master" the concepts...she started hating math.

We went to the THSC Convention today and my family fell in love with Shiller Math. You can find it on www.shillermath.com .

 

The cost is $300..but you get a LOT! They also offer payment plans!!!

Hope this helps.

 

 

Lovedtodeath is correct about the MUS Beta. When Gamma teaches multiplication it teaches single and mulitple digit, along with things such as perimeter (that might have been in Beta, too), area, etc. You don't have to go so slowly, and can go through at your own pace. In fact, my second one has been using the same workbooks as his sister, just doing different pages in it.

 

We could never afford $300 for math, so we stick with MUS as an addtional program to Singapore Math, which is our main one.

[Lovedtodeath]

Another satisfied Professor B user here. This math-phobic mom, thanks to Professor B, has NOT passed on her phobia to her two children! Professor B offers either scripted math books or CDs that you watch with your child. My mathy husband likes how he presents and reinforces concepts, and this mom loves that Professor B tells me exactly what to say.

 

We have used it all the way through our homeschooling years. My daughter will be starting Algebra very shortly. The only subject we need to find another curriculum for is geometry.

 

I didn't go with Professor B because it only teaches arithmetic. You have to get weights and measures, telling time, etc. from somewhere else. Is this correct? How do you handle it?

 

Lovedtodeath is correct about the MUS Beta. When Gamma teaches multiplication it teaches single and mulitple digit, along with things such as perimeter (that might have been in Beta, too), area, etc. You don't have to go so slowly, and can go through at your own pace. In fact, my second one has been using the same workbooks as his sister, just doing different pages in it.

 

We could never afford $300 for math, so we stick with MUS as an addtional program to Singapore Math, which is our main one.

 

I am glad to know that about Gamma. hmmm... MUS isn't as bad as I thought. I have heard that Alpha is the toughest one to get through, but I assumed it was the same thing over again for multiplication. My daughter just confessed to me about a week ago that she wasn't having trouble doing the work when we used MUS... she just didn't want to do it.:glare: She also lied about her school desk being too small and after we bought her a new one she confessed that she was trying to get out of work. Oh well, it was only $10 at a garage sale and I like using her old one for myself.:D

[hmschooling]

Singapore is great with the HIG....after we did Horizons 2, we went into Singapore 2. Very easy and very short lessons. Also, Teaching Textbooks...after Horizons 2, you should be able to go into TT4 since Horizons is a little ahead, and TT is a little behind on average. We are going into Horizons 5 after Singapore 2, but using it along with Singapore 3A and Calculadders. All of these are EASY to follow teach and fun to learn from. ....

 

.

 

I should have said TT5 above, not Horizons!

[sagira]

We used MCP all the way through 6th - loved it!!! It isn't flashy, but it's a solid program that my kids responded to really well.

 

Good luck choosing :001_smile:

 

We really like MCP here too, and we supplement with Miquon. Works great for us!

[WTMCassandra]

I didn't go with Professor B because it only teaches arithmetic. You have to get weights and measures, telling time, etc. from somewhere else. Is this correct? How do you handle it?

 

 

I supplemented with little geometry books from Rainbow and Key To booklets for weights and measures. I just used the clock to teach time informally, and I used life experiences and Presto Chango for teaching money values.

 

To me it wasn't a big deal and totally worth it to get the high-quality instruction from Professor B. My children are way better at math than I am, and they have no fear. Those things are priceless to me, and Professor B fit our family to accomplish them. YMMV.

[Storm Bay]

I am glad to know that about Gamma. hmmm... MUS isn't as bad as I thought. I have heard that Alpha is the toughest one to get through, but I assumed it was the same thing over again for multiplication. My daughter just confessed to me about a week ago that she wasn't having trouble doing the work when we used MUS... she just didn't want to do it.:glare: She also lied about her school desk being too small and after we bought her a new one she confessed that she was trying to get out of work. Oh well, it was only $10 at a garage sale and I like using her old one for myself.:D

 

 

Mine don't generally want to do math (or other subjects, unless they're a favourite) either, and it doesn't matter what the program is; they'd rather play. That said, some programs cause more resistance than others, but I gauge how things are going by what they're learning and retaining (not including math facts since I take that as a separate skill learning thing from the other concepts of math, mathematical thinking, word problems, etc).

 

MUS isn't perfect, but neither is anything else. I like doing two programs because I think it helps rectify that to some degree. My favourite math programs (if I haven't posted them here already) are:

 

Singapore Math

Russian Math (for after SM 6)

MEP

Life of Fred

Dolciani 1965-1975 Structure and Method Algebra 1

Gelfand's Algebra

 

Ones I like:

MUS

Miquon

Lial's Beginning Algebra (only because my dd resisted far less than any other Algebra book she'd tried before that--but she did the Dolciani for her second time through Algebra 1)

CSMP

 

Ones that did not work well for us:

Saxon (well, my eldest did it for 3 levels, but she is an independent learner--my second dd and I just had to switch to something else)

 

Not a curriculum, but something my dc really enjoy are the Murderous Maths books. When they come across the same things in their school they tend to remember them, even if they haven't done any problems on that yet.

TT Algebra 1 (too easy, dd said, but it includes some pre-Algebra and apparently catches up later, but we need something different here)

Jacob's Algebra