Crate training experts? Urgent help needed please

[LynnG in Arizona]

Sorry this got long, but I wanted you all to have all the facts. I'm in desperate need of solid advice on crate training a dog - please. It's only 5 am in Hawaii right now, and I can't even call our trainer (whom we are scheduled to meet with next weekend).

 

We picked up our new 4 month old collie puppy from the airport yesterday. We had to get him from Australia because collies are in extremely short supply in Hawaii. Anyway, he was probably in the crate for around 12-14 hours by the time we got him, and we were not surprised to find that he had messed his crate. No problem, we just cleaned him up and took him home.

 

In the last several months I have read literally four major puppy books (How to Housebreak Your Dog in Seven Days, Ian Dunbar's Before and After Getting Your Puppy, Victoria Stilwell's book, and Brian Kilcommon(sp)'s book) I totally understand the theory behind crate training and am fine with it in theory. I thought the process was pretty dummy-proof.

 

We began the basic principles yesterday: putting him in the yard, hoping for him to go. Nothing happened so we put him in the crate. Even after a meal and a drink, we took him outside and nothing happened, even after 20 minutes in the yard. More crate time. We took him out for some yard time roughly every hour and gave him ample opportunity to do his business. Still nothing. :confused:

 

Finally, by the end of the day (and roughly 7 hours since we had got him), we took him on a walk. He sniffed a lot but did nothing. Even after a gentle 20 minute walk, he did nothing. We came home and put him in his crate, intending to try again in another hour just before bedtime.

 

And he went pee in his crate. :confused:

 

We crated him overnight (more like 5-6 hours), and he went pee in his crate again. Took him outside first thing this morning . . . nothing. Put him in his crate, and he went pee again.

 

Now we have three pee accidents in the crate in less than 24 hours. This goes against everything I thought I knew about potty training a dog. Everything.

 

More facts:

 

~He is a sweet-tempered, affectionate dog. He seems pretty comfortable in our house/yard. If it weren't for this housebreaking issue, I would think he was making a remarkably smooth transition to our house.

 

~We got him from a very reputable breeder in Australia, and have talked to her over the phone multiple times. She is in no way a puppy mill -she's actually bred collies for decades, and knows them well, and has her dogs mostly housebroken by about 3 months old.

 

~This same breeder did take him out running errands the other day in a crate as preparation for his long journey to Hawaii. Unfortunately, she forgot a leash/collar for him that day and as a result, was not able to take him out of the crate. He did have an accident in the crate at the end of the long day.

 

So now he has had five known accidents in the last few days in a crate. How do I break the cycle? I am in total panic here, as I honestly thought we were doing "everything" right.

 

Is it really possible that the two crate accidents he had before we got him (one in the breeder's car, and the other during the long journey from Australia) would have been enough to break down his natural instinct to keep his den clean? I knew that happened to pet shop dogs, but thought it would take more than two instances to make it happen.

 

Please help, if you can. Oh, and both of my toddlers have a high fever. DH is gone for the day. :glare: So I am doing my best but cannot literally watch this dog 24 hours/day.

 

What do I do if I can't put him in his crate? What on earth is going on?

 

Oh, and I should mention that our previous collie had what we called an iron bladder. She would frequently go many hours at a time without going to the bathroom, especially if she were nervous. Our previous collie breeder told us that that was quite common with collies, and that's what we thought was going on yesterday when puppy didn't go. But now we have 3 crate accidents in roughly 12 hours, and I am utterly perplexed. :(

 

Thanks so much if you've made it this far. I feel desperate.

[Avila]

How big is your crate? Some dogs will go in there if they have any room extra. For puppies, they should just be able to go in and lay down and no more.

 

Having said that, my big guy (border collie mix) did go in his crate as a puppy occasionally but NEVER does now as a grown up dog. We tease that he is the largest dog with the smallest bladder, but he does not have accidents in the house.

 

I will also say that this dog does not like to be watched going potty and will not do so on a leash.

 

Hope this helps!

[Emilylou]

Congratulations on your new puppy!

 

One tip- make sure his crate is just big enough to fit him laying down. no bigger. add a box or something to make it smaller until he gets bigger.

 

He shouldn't pee where he sleeps.

 

This worked for us. We had a large crate for our lab puppy but when we first brought her home we blocked off part of the crate with a box. we kept putting a smaller box in there so she had more room as she grew.

 

Hope this makes sense. Good luck.

[LynnG in Arizona]

ps - I am thoroughly cleaning the crate each time he goes, replacing the towel and using Nature's Miracle to completely eliminate the odors.

[Avila]

Oh, and NO TOWEL might help. Sometimes dogs like to go on something soft.

 

ETA: If you have not yet seen him go outside, I would definitely make SURE that you do that today, even if that means not crating him and sticking him on a leash attached to your belt. Maybe your yard is different from what he is used to in Australia? Some dogs are afraid to go on grass, or pavement, or whatever, if that isn't what they are used to. You may need to keep him close and reward when he does goes outside to overcome that one. Sorry about the kids being sick and DH being gone. This is not a good day for that one! Hugs!

Edited July 25, 2009 by Asenik

[LynnG in Arizona]

Thanks for the replies thus far. His crate is, if anything, on the small side. He definitely does not have lots of excess room in there - just barely enough to turn around. In fact, when he arrived yesterday he was bigger than we had expected . . . and I was thinking about getting a bigger crate today.

[NancyNellen]

Since it's only been a day, I would not worry too much. He needs to have a success outside and be well-rewarded for it. Once that happens, I think you will see him shifting to going outdoors.

[LynnG in Arizona]

Oh, and NO TOWEL might help. Sometimes dogs like to go on something soft.

 

ETA: If you have not yet seen hem go outside, I would definitely make SURE that you do that today, even if that means not crating him and sticking him on a leash attached to your belt. Maybe your yard is different from what he is used to in Australia? Some dogs are afraid to go on grass, or pavement, or whatever, if that isn't what they are used to. You may need to keep him close and reward when he does goes outside to overcome that one. Sorry about the kids being sick and DH being gone. This is not a good day for that one! Hugs!

 

Thank you Shelly! I must admit that I have a real case of the "poor meemies" today. ;) I appreciate the encouragement!

[LynnG in Arizona]

Since it's only been a day, I would not worry too much. He needs to have a success outside and be well-rewarded for it. Once that happens, I think you will see him shifting to going outdoors.

 

From your lips to God's ears. :) Thank you, Nancy!

[LynnG in Arizona]

When we first got our puppy he was very nervous about going in the yard. He didn't feel ownership of the space. It didn't take long for him to get comfortable, accept us as his new pack, and go more readily in the yard; but he still doesn't go when he is on walks very often.

 

Your pup has been through a lot and I bet she will be fine after a lot of love and the realization that she has a new "pack".

 

Thank you, Christina! I do know that he has been through an awful lot. I am just sick about him getting off on the wrong foot in this area; I thought I had totally prepared for potty training success.

[Avila]

I hope the rest of your day goes a lot better!

 

If it makes you feel any better, I did foster care for a rescue organization for several years, and I have never seen a dog who was crate trained properly as a puppy who was not house trained as an adult. This will happen. Give it time, and give yourself and the puppy some slack for the circumstances today! :grouphug:

[elfgivas]

i'm smiling here. a new puppy! congratulations.

 

with our standard poodle, we solved the "accidents in crate" issue by feeding her in her crate. she was more than willing to piddle where she slept, contrary to all expert opinions, but definitely not where she ate.

 

she may be piddling in the least unfamiliar place to her (ie crate). hopefully, after being outside a bit, she will feel that's familiar, too. maybe dumping her pee outside where you want her to go might help....

 

good luck,

ann

[LynnG in Arizona]

i'm smiling here. a new puppy! congratulations.

 

with our standard poodle, we solved the "accidents in crate" issue by feeding her in her crate. she was more than willing to piddle where she slept, contrary to all expert opinions, but definitely not where she ate.

 

she may be piddling in the least unfamiliar place to her (ie crate). hopefully, after being outside a bit, she will feel that's familiar, too. maybe dumping her pee outside where you want her to go might help....

 

good luck,

ann

 

Ann, thanks for responding. I do recall seeing Victoria Stilwell feed a dog right on top of its previous (indoor) piddle space. Worked like a charm.

 

I know what you mean about the "contrary to all expert opinions"! I am absolutely astounded by what has happened. We are starting to think that the crate is most familiar to him, and thus the place where he feels most comfortable to eliminate.

 

I think you're on to something!

 

One question, though . . . if you fed your standard poodle in the crate, did you shut the door? And how long afterwards did you take her outside to do her business?

[MariannNOVA]

I am so sorry the kids are not well, and the whole crate thing isn't going well....but everyone here gave you great advice! Stop beating yourself up, you haven't ruined anything with these piddle accidents -- it's a little puppy who just came a long way, and everything will be fine. It will all go better tomorrow, and I've learned this past week that dogs can take what seem to us to be interminably long times to find just the right spot to do their business. Keep us posted! :drool5:

[Hen]

we have our first puppy, she is about 3 months old right now, and we did the crate training. to my dismay, she did have 2 accidents in it right away..she is potty trained now and using a doggy door.

 

We were feeding her in the crate, so she would love the crate and enjoy being in it when we are out. I usually did not shut the door, just let her have freedom to eat and then come out. I did often close the door with the food on the inside and her on the outside, just to create a strong desire to be inside! but just for a moment. She also gets special treats inside her kong toy in the crate when we leave.

 

good luck with the puppy, it will turn around, just keep working with it. They do sell these special spikes at the pet store that smell strongly and will create the need to pee on it, you might want to get one to encourage your puppy to pee in the yard- I saw Victoria use one once on her show.

 

good luck, it will be okay!

[unsinkable]

I love Victoria Stillwell!

 

I remember one show when she had the owners take the dog outside every hour (it was a small adult dog...maybe a pug rescue...that wore diapers.)

 

Also, have a treat in your hand and feed it to the dog immediately after it is done going to the bathroom outside. Don't wait 'til you get inside. Do it right where the puppy went potty.

[LynnG in Arizona]

I am so sorry the kids are not well, and the whole crate thing isn't going well....but everyone here gave you great advice! Stop beating yourself up, you haven't ruined anything with these piddle accidents -- it's a little puppy who just came a long way, and everything will be fine. It will all go better tomorrow, and I've learned this past week that dogs can take what seem to us to be interminably long times to find just the right spot to do their business. Keep us posted! :drool5:

 

Mariann, thank you for your kind words!

 

Tell me, how is your beautiful dog? How is the transition going? I've been wondering about you all week. Sorry if I missed a post, but we went away for a couple days before getting the puppy.

[LynnG in Arizona]

we have our first puppy, she is about 3 months old right now, and we did the crate training. to my dismay, she did have 2 accidents in it right away..she is potty trained now and using a doggy door.

 

We were feeding her in the crate, so she would love the crate and enjoy being in it when we are out. I usually did not shut the door, just let her have freedom to eat and then come out. I did often close the door with the food on the inside and her on the outside, just to create a strong desire to be inside! but just for a moment. She also gets special treats inside her kong toy in the crate when we leave.

 

good luck with the puppy, it will turn around, just keep working with it. They do sell these special spikes at the pet store that smell strongly and will create the need to pee on it, you might want to get one to encourage your puppy to pee in the yard- I saw Victoria use one once on her show.

 

good luck, it will be okay!

 

Thank you, Jen, for your encouragement!! It's nice to know that your puppy had a couple crate accidents that did not doom her potty training forever.

 

You give some great advice about the stuffed toys and the crate.

 

Oh, and I got the pee post, installed it yesterday before he came home, and was shocked that puppy is not remotely interested! What? But it worked on It's Me or the Dog!! :confused:

[LynnG in Arizona]

I love Victoria Stillwell!

 

I remember one show when she had the owners take the dog outside every hour (it was a small adult dog...maybe a pug rescue...that wore diapers.)

 

Also, have a treat in your hand and feed it to the dog immediately after it is done going to the bathroom outside. Don't wait 'til you get inside. Do it right where the puppy went potty.

 

Isn't Victoria the best? :) I wish I could have her come live with us this week!

 

We're definitely doing the treat thing, immediately.

[LynnG in Arizona]

UPDATE:

 

Thank you kind people who have responded in my hour of need. I know that sounds melodramatic, but I was seriously in a cold sweat this morning!

 

I am happy to report that puppy has had one successful outside pee and one successful outside poop this morning. No additional accidents. :D I pray this means he has turned the corner.

 

I spoke with our trainer this morning, and she said to stay the course. Only changes are:

 

1. No bedding in the crate

2. Feed him at least some food on the bottom of the crate.

 

I am excited to tell DH the good news. Things were looking pretty grim this morning!

 

Thanks again, everybody!!

[CactusPair]

:grouphug:

 

sounds like you have a lot on your plate right now. and it sounds like you're doing everything right as far as the crate training goes. i was going to recommend using something like nature's miracle to get rid of the scent, but you're already on top of the game!

 

give it time and patience.

 

i 2nd not having soft, absorbent towels, blankets, even toys in the crate that can dry pee accidents up.

 

are you using a leash to take the puppy out in the yard? are you taking the puppy to the same place every time? have you tried leaving a cloth that is pee soaked in the yard spot where you want the puppy to go? (the pee smell will help give the puppy the hint)

 

when the puppy does go, treat immediatly, of course, and mark the behavior with a clicker sound or with a simple emphatic "yes!" the word "yes" works as a clicker does, marking the behavior and associating it with proper action and a treat.

 

 

hang in there. my adult rescue dog peed in her crate for many, many months no matter what we did. i consulted the trainer & vet to no avail. some days she had as many as 7 accidents. i was at the end of my rope, but felt i had to keep her and accept come what may. who else would deal with such a disaster? i wanted to give up, but knew it would probably be mean her demise and she'd already been through a lot. i kept keeping on.

 

and now she hardly ever has an accident. i don't know what did it, except maybe time and patience.

 

if my little disaster dog can do it over time, i'm sure your puppy will get the hang of things very shortly. have faith.:grouphug:

 

and congrats on your new addition!

[LynnG in Arizona]

:grouphug:

 

sounds like you have a lot on your plate right now. and it sounds like you're doing everything right as far as the crate training goes. i was going to recommend using something like nature's miracle to get rid of the scent, but you're already on top of the game!

 

give it time and patience.

 

i 2nd not having soft, absorbent towels, blankets, even toys in the crate that can dry pee accidents up.

 

are you using a leash to take the puppy out in the yard? are you taking the puppy to the same place every time? have you tried leaving a cloth that is pee soaked in the yard spot where you want the puppy to go? (the pee smell will help give the puppy the hint)

 

when the puppy does go, treat immediatly, of course, and mark the behavior with a clicker sound or with a simple emphatic "yes!" the word "yes" works as a clicker does, marking the behavior and associating it with proper action and a treat.

 

 

hang in there. my adult rescue dog peed in her crate for many, many months no matter what we did. i consulted the trainer & vet to no avail. some days she had as many as 7 accidents. i was at the end of my rope, but felt i had to keep her and accept come what may. who else would deal with such a disaster? i wanted to give up, but knew it would probably be mean her demise and she'd already been through a lot. i kept keeping on.

 

and now she hardly ever has an accident. i don't know what did it, except maybe time and patience.

 

if my little disaster dog can do it over time, i'm sure your puppy will get the hang of things very shortly. have faith.:grouphug:

 

and congrats on your new addition!

 

CactusPair, thanks for the hug and the great encouragement!! :) I am truly impressed that you hung in that long with your rescue dog - good for you. How wonderful that she is trained now. Not many people would have had the patience you did, that's for sure.

 

Let's see, we had a designated pee spot picked out and put down the pee stake. We are taking him out on a leash. He didn't seem to like our designated spot, so we've let him wander a bit around the yard. The spot where he had his two successes is in the opposite corner from our designated spot . . . and right where our previous collie used to go, even though she's been dead for 6 months. Go figure.

 

Many thanks again. I am pitifully grateful for all of the kind words and encouragement I have received today. ;)

[orangearrow]

i'm smiling here. a new puppy! congratulations.

 

with our standard poodle, we solved the "accidents in crate" issue by feeding her in her crate. she was more than willing to piddle where she slept, contrary to all expert opinions, but definitely not where she ate.

 

she may be piddling in the least unfamiliar place to her (ie crate). hopefully, after being outside a bit, she will feel that's familiar, too. maybe dumping her pee outside where you want her to go might help....

 

good luck,

ann

 

Just wanted to ditto this.

 

We had one dog 2 years ago who went in his crate, and unfortunately NEVER stopped. He would go both "forms" in his crate too, and I cannot tell you how at the end of my rope I was with that dog. He had to walk around leashed TO me when we let him out, and he'd still go in the house. So, house, crate, backyard - it was all the same to him.

 

We rehomed that dog - and are crate training our new puppy. The things I did differently this time around (that all seem to be helping!!) are:

 

1) She's in an itty bitty crate. She can't stand up in it comfortably, but can lay down and rest.

2) I put the little food/water dish in her crate and feed her in it 3-4 times a day.

3) No bedding

4) When she finishes eating, we try to remember to pull out the dish and put in a toy or chewing bone or Kong toy for her.

 

When she's out of her crate, I take her outside every 20 minutes. She still has a couple of accidents a week, but as long as I stick to the 20 minutes thing, we seem to be okay.

 

If she's not being actively played with - she is in her crate. It feels mean, but she actually loves her crate (and is often seen scurrying into her crate when she's "all played out") - and I think feeding her in her crate has made a huge difference in this attitude.

 

Best of luck to you!!!

[LynnG in Arizona]

Just wanted to ditto this.

 

We had one dog 2 years ago who went in his crate, and unfortunately NEVER stopped. He would go both "forms" in his crate too, and I cannot tell you how at the end of my rope I was with that dog. He had to walk around leashed TO me when we let him out, and he'd still go in the house. So, house, crate, backyard - it was all the same to him.

 

We rehomed that dog - and are crate training our new puppy. The things I did differently this time around (that all seem to be helping!!) are:

 

1) She's in an itty bitty crate. She can't stand up in it comfortably, but can lay down and rest.

2) I put the little food/water dish in her crate and feed her in it 3-4 times a day.

3) No bedding

4) When she finishes eating, we try to remember to pull out the dish and put in a toy or chewing bone or Kong toy for her.

 

When she's out of her crate, I take her outside every 20 minutes. She still has a couple of accidents a week, but as long as I stick to the 20 minutes thing, we seem to be okay.

 

If she's not being actively played with - she is in her crate. It feels mean, but she actually loves her crate (and is often seen scurrying into her crate when she's "all played out") - and I think feeding her in her crate has made a huge difference in this attitude.

 

Best of luck to you!!!

 

D, thanks for writing. I am sorry to hear about your previous dog. I know what a heartbreaking thing it is to re-home a dog. (We found a new home for our beloved dog many years ago because I realized it wasn't fair to have a dog with the amount of hours we worked at the time.) The scenario you described is, of course, my worst nightmare with this puppy, and what I was envisioning this morning when I first typed my post.

 

I'm truly glad things are working better this time around!

[LynnG in Arizona]

By the way . . . those of you who feed your dog in the crate, what are the specifics?

 

Do you close the crate door?

 

How long after that do you take the dog outside to go potty?

[Cindyg]

with our standard poodle, we solved the "accidents in crate" issue by feeding her in her crate.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

I'm just remembering that our trainer long ago told us to feed the puppy where he had an accident so that he'd be sure to get the message that this is not a place to pee.

 

You did get off to an unfortunate start with the long crate ride, but here's hoping to a long, wonderful, sanitary collie-hood.

[Jean in Newcastle]

By the way . . . those of you who feed your dog in the crate, what are the specifics?

 

Do you close the crate door?

 

How long after that do you take the dog outside to go potty?

 

Yes, I close the door.

 

I take them out about 10 min. later. (not that I think there is a set time - that just is what worked for me).

[LynnG in Arizona]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

I'm just remembering that our trainer long ago told us to feed the puppy where he had an accident so that he'd be sure to get the message that this is not a place to pee.

 

You did get off to an unfortunate start with the long crate ride, but here's hoping to a long, wonderful, sanitary collie-hood.

 

Thank you for your sweet wishes! You all have been life savers today, truly.

 

Update:

 

Since I originally posted this morning, we now have 2 outdoor pees and 1 outdoor poop. No additional accidents.

 

I fed him dinner in his crates (we have one for downstairs and one for our bedroom). I think we're going to have to replace the wooden one that he came with from Australia because he is really loathe to get in there, and I'm pretty sure it's because the porous wood has absorbed some of his travel messes.

 

I think I will try to post his picture so that all you kind people can see the subject of our discussion today. ;)

[unsinkable]

Thank you for your sweet wishes! You all have been life savers today, truly.

 

Update:

 

Since I originally posted this morning, we now have 2 outdoor pees and 1 outdoor poop. No additional accidents.

 

I fed him dinner in his crates (we have one for downstairs and one for our bedroom). I think we're going to have to replace the wooden one that he came with from Australia because he is really loathe to get in there, and I'm pretty sure it's because the porous wood has absorbed some of his travel messes.

 

I think I will try to post his picture so that all you kind people can see the subject of our discussion today. ;)

 

What a cute furry fluffball!

 

What is his name?

[hornblower]

Crate training & potty training are, to me, two different things - though clearly 1 can help with the other.

 

I personally do not use crates to potty train. I have trained the dogs to like & use their crates & to travel in them but in my mind, I keep the training goals with those bhvrs separate from potty training.

 

With a young pup like this, I'd start actually potty training & put the bhvr on a cue. BC's are so smart that your pup will figure this out quickly. Take your pup out on leash every hour or so & click/treat when they go. If they don't go after a few minutes of quietly strolling around, then go back home with no fanfare, no drama. Try again in a bit. If they do go, I'd also mix in taking off the leash & playing a short game after the c/t. Dogs will quickly figure out they have do 'business first' and then they get to play.

 

I personally would not always use the same area of the yard because some dogs will get obsessive about that spot and will refuse to go other places. It's very handy though to have a dog who will go 'on command'. Getting a sample for the vet is a cinch then! And you can have them go before an agility or obed trial & not worry that they'll decide to go on the course! And if you ever have to take a leashed dog out in a rain/snow/wind storm & you're in a hurry, you'll really appreciate a dog who goes on command.

 

Sue Ailsby has broken down all the techniques into little itty bitty baby steps. This is, in effect, a dog training curricullum! All laid out & currently free though when I met her there was a buzz about laying it all out in a book....

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/levels.html

 

Crate training begins in level 2.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/ByLevel/2Level.html

 

and you'll see the criteria for checking off the bhvr gets tougher with each level.

 

Elimination on cue is under "Handling" and is a bhvr for level 3.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/LevelBehaviours/TL10Handling.html

 

Good luck & have fun training your puppy!

[LynnG in Arizona]

What a cute furry fluffball!

 

What is his name?

 

Thank you very much. We named him Angus. We had two boy names in mind, Angus and Beau, and asked the breeder what she thought. (This was about a month ago.) She said he was definitely an Angus :D based on his personality, so that settled the matter.

 

This morning's update: last night my DH took him on a walk and got him to go both #1 and #2. His crate was dry overnight - woo hoo!! - and then I got him to go pee outside like a good boy.

 

I am feeling so much better than I did 24 hours ago. Thank you all again!

[LynnG in Arizona]

Crate training & potty training are, to me, two different things - though clearly 1 can help with the other.

 

I personally do not use crates to potty train. I have trained the dogs to like & use their crates & to travel in them but in my mind, I keep the training goals with those bhvrs separate from potty training.

 

With a young pup like this, I'd start actually potty training & put the bhvr on a cue. BC's are so smart that your pup will figure this out quickly. Take your pup out on leash every hour or so & click/treat when they go. If they don't go after a few minutes of quietly strolling around, then go back home with no fanfare, no drama. Try again in a bit. If they do go, I'd also mix in taking off the leash & playing a short game after the c/t. Dogs will quickly figure out they have do 'business first' and then they get to play.

 

I personally would not always use the same area of the yard because some dogs will get obsessive about that spot and will refuse to go other places. It's very handy though to have a dog who will go 'on command'. Getting a sample for the vet is a cinch then! And you can have them go before an agility or obed trial & not worry that they'll decide to go on the course! And if you ever have to take a leashed dog out in a rain/snow/wind storm & you're in a hurry, you'll really appreciate a dog who goes on command.

 

Sue Ailsby has broken down all the techniques into little itty bitty baby steps. This is, in effect, a dog training curricullum! All laid out & currently free though when I met her there was a buzz about laying it all out in a book....

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/levels.html

 

Crate training begins in level 2.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/ByLevel/2Level.html

 

and you'll see the criteria for checking off the bhvr gets tougher with each level.

 

Elimination on cue is under "Handling" and is a bhvr for level 3.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/LevelBehaviours/TL10Handling.html

 

Good luck & have fun training your puppy!

 

Hornblower, thank you for taking the time to share all that information! I just bookmarked the site, read the introduction, and look forward to reading more in the future.

 

We actually have a rough collie, not a border collie. He certainly looks a bit like a bc due to his tri-color coat. But the point you made remains valid; rough collies are typically smart dogs and catch on fast. :)

 

We are definitely hoping to train him to eliminate on command. I really wish we had done that with our previous collie!

 

Thanks again.

[Laurie]

 

We are definitely hoping to train him to eliminate on command. I really wish we had done that with our previous collie!

 

.

 

I was reading about this in Ian Dunbar's puppy book. He says to be sure to choose your command carefully...don't choose something like "Hurry Up" or something else the dog might hear you say frequently to your family which could then result in an indoor mess.

 

FWIW I'm using "Do your business" with our new puppy. Since my dc are big I'm very happy to have purged all the cutesy potty words from my vocabulary. :D

 

I'm glad things are going better. We had a rough start with our first dog who was a pet shop puppy. He had definitely lost his instinct to keep his den clean but once we got through it he never had another accident in the house.

[LynnG in Arizona]

I was reading about this in Ian Dunbar's puppy book. He says to be sure to choose your command carefully...don't choose something like "Hurry Up" or something else the dog might hear you say frequently to your family which could then result in an indoor mess.

 

FWIW I'm using "Do your business" with our new puppy. Since my dc are big I'm very happy to have purged all the cutesy potty words from my vocabulary. :D

 

I'm glad things are going better. We had a rough start with our first dog who was a pet shop puppy. He had definitely lost his instinct to keep his den clean but once we got through it he never had another accident in the house.

 

Laurie, we are back in the toddler phase, so definitely are trying not to overlap our phrases. ;)

 

Congrats on getting your pet shop dog back on track . . . that's impressive! How did you do it? I feel so sorry for dogs that are kept like that for long periods. I'm very happy it worked out for your family in the end!

[elfgivas]

hi lynn -

 

i'm glad its a brighter day :001_smile:

 

sorry i didn't get back to you; i just saw your question now.

 

each dog is different. ours likes to eat at night, sleep and then go out to do her thing in the morning. so that's what we do. i'd never have guessed that routine, but after days and days of putting her out after feeding her, to no avail, i decided to do it her way ; ).

 

ann

[Mrs. Readsalot]

I quickly read through the replies and it sounds like things are going better. I also enjoy watching Victoria and always learn something from her. I have been in "dogs" all my life...I think you know I showed Shelties in Hawaii and now have a show corgi. When I returned from Hawaii I had a similiar experience with a Sheltie pup. I decided that she was peeing in the crate because she was "nervous" about having to be in there for another looooog trip. As suggested I started feeding her in the crate and then took her outside and really rewared her for going outside. She picked it up in no time and ended up also being one of the best obedience dogs I ever owned. I would also try doing a bit of clicker training with the crate to build a new positive association with the crate. At first put the dog gently in the crate, click , then give a small treat(I like Charlie Bear treats), then let the pup right out of the crate, repeat 5-7 times at first. Then add a command of crate, put the dog in the crate(although at this point the puppy may already get the game and go in on it's own, click and give a treat.

Oh and I want to see pictures of you sweet pup....when you have time of course.

Also I hope you children are feeling better. You certainly have had a lot to deal with the past few days.

Karen

[LynnG in Arizona]

hi lynn -

 

i'm glad its a brighter day :001_smile:

 

sorry i didn't get back to you; i just saw your question now.

 

each dog is different. ours likes to eat at night, sleep and then go out to do her thing in the morning. so that's what we do. i'd never have guessed that routine, but after days and days of putting her out after feeding her, to no avail, i decided to do it her way ; ).

 

ann

 

Thank you, Ann! :)

 

That's so funny about your dog not wanting to use the bathroom until the next morning. It's not at all what the "experts" tell you, is it? They truly are individuals, that's for sure. I've noticed our little boy doesn't go poop until at least 2-3 hours after a meal . . . not at all the 15-20 minutes all the books predict.

[LynnG in Arizona]

I quickly read through the replies and it sounds like things are going better. I also enjoy watching Victoria and always learn something from her. I have been in "dogs" all my life...I think you know I showed Shelties in Hawaii and now have a show corgi. When I returned from Hawaii I had a similiar experience with a Sheltie pup. I decided that she was peeing in the crate because she was "nervous" about having to be in there for another looooog trip. As suggested I started feeding her in the crate and then took her outside and really rewared her for going outside. She picked it up in no time and ended up also being one of the best obedience dogs I ever owned. I would also try doing a bit of clicker training with the crate to build a new positive association with the crate. At first put the dog gently in the crate, click , then give a small treat(I like Charlie Bear treats), then let the pup right out of the crate, repeat 5-7 times at first. Then add a command of crate, put the dog in the crate(although at this point the puppy may already get the game and go in on it's own, click and give a treat.

Oh and I want to see pictures of you sweet pup....when you have time of course.

Also I hope you children are feeling better. You certainly have had a lot to deal with the past few days.

Karen

 

Karen, thanks for writing! :)

 

I agree with you about Victoria. I "think" I know a lot about dog training, but I inevitably learn some new nugget every time I watch a new episode of It's Me or the Dog.

 

Did you see the picture I ended up posting? It's back maybe 8 posts ago.

 

That's interesting that your sheltie did the same thing after flying from Hawaii! I'm glad you were able to turn it around quickly.

 

The kids are doing better, thanks for asking. I myself got a fever last night (thus officially making it a true day from Hades ;)), but it lasted only 15 hours, so I can't complain.

 

Angus is continuing to do well today. However, he's following in our previous collie's footsteps and not eliminating very frequently. At all. I think he's gone pee just three times today (all outside, thank goodness) despite multiple additional opportunities.

[MariannNOVA]

and things seem to be going the way they should!

 

Our Guidry is doing great - he really IS a nice dog! I am on bedrest (Day Two) from a nasty running mishap on Saturday evening on a wet road (probably ALL my fault).

 

This whole dog thing is really a 'process' -- take it one step at a time (no pun intended) -- please post photos and let me know how it is going!

[LynnG in Arizona]

and things seem to be going the way they should!

 

Our Guidry is doing great - he really IS a nice dog! I am on bedrest (Day Two) from a nasty running mishap on Saturday evening on a wet road (probably ALL my fault).

 

This whole dog thing is really a 'process' -- take it one step at a time (no pun intended) -- please post photos and let me know how it is going!

 

Good heavens, Mariann, I am so sorry to hear of your accident! What on earth happened? :eek: Get better quickly, and let me know the details if you can.

 

I am truly happy that your first week with Guidry has gone so smoothly! :hurray:

 

Our second full day with Angus went very well. Not a single accident, though he continues to exhibit the iron bladder that is apparently a characteristic of the collie species. ;)

 

My teens can't figure out why we are still crating him and providing only limited access to the house, but everything I've read says that people tend to go wrong in giving puppies too much freedom too soon. So we're doing a mix of putting him in the crate and giving him free run of our kitchen/dining room area, which is tiled. So far so good.

[hornblower]

You can give him unlimited access to the house so long as he's "umbilical corded" to one of you. Put a harness on him, and attach a 6 ft leash to your waist. Keep puppy moving with you as you go around the house, praise lots and offer click/treat or fun games for checking in with you. You establish amazing bonding this way & begin the basics of loose leash - just reward him anytime he's keeping close enough to have the leash hang loose.

 

When puppy is tired or you're no longer able to pay attention to him, then put him in a safe room. After a while you can alternate umbilical with offleash supervised play in the house.

 

I just saw the photo - what a gorgeous boy.

[RoughCollie]

We are definitely hoping to train him to eliminate on command. I really wish we had done that with our previous collie!

 

I have a collie, and we found 3 things to be very helpful:

 

1. I tied sleighbells to the doorknob. Every time I took the dog out, I batted the sleighbells. Now he bats them when he wants to go out.

 

The side effect is that he uses them to call us, which means if we are home schooling upstairs, and he doesn't want to be alone, he bats the bells until we finally tire of listening to them and come downstairs.

 

2. Every time I took the dog out, I said "Go pee-pee" when he peed. It comes in really handy on rainy days when we have to walk him on a leash.

 

3. When he was a puppy, our dog was a nipper. We used clove oil (purchased from Trader Joe's) -- one drop kept the dog away from whatever we put it on (usually the kids' shoes).

 

RC

[jensway]

We have a Border Collie mix "Rocky" and we also tied bells to the back door handle like Rough Collie. When we were training him we would hit the bells right before we let him outside. Rocky now rings the bells with either his nose or his paw when he wants to go outside. Took him about 4-5 days to learn to ring the bell.

[LynnG in Arizona]

I have a collie, and we found 3 things to be very helpful:

 

1. I tied sleighbells to the doorknob. Every time I took the dog out, I batted the sleighbells. Now he bats them when he wants to go out.

 

The side effect is that he uses them to call us, which means if we are home schooling upstairs, and he doesn't want to be alone, he bats the bells until we finally tire of listening to them and come downstairs.

 

2. Every time I took the dog out, I said "Go pee-pee" when he peed. It comes in really handy on rainy days when we have to walk him on a leash.

 

3. When he was a puppy, our dog was a nipper. We used clove oil (purchased from Trader Joe's) -- one drop kept the dog away from whatever we put it on (usually the kids' shoes).

 

RC

 

Hi RC!

 

We did the sleighbell trick with our previous collie. She was so smart that she learned it in a couple days (though, to be fair, she was already 9 months old when she came to us). It comes in extremely handy, that's for sure. We have a new set of bells on the door now but haven't started working on that yet . . . we've been too focused on preventing additional accidents and making sure he goes to the bathroom outside.

 

And we're definitely telling him to "go wee"; here's hoping he rapidly figures that command out! :D

 

Jensway, I've always heard that border collies are truly one of the very smartest dog breeds out there. I'm not surprised yours learned the trick that quickly. :)