baffled by a recent comment from family friend

[amiechoke]

Okay, the other day I mentioned to a family friend that we'd been to a homeschooling convention and I'd been impressed that, in a crowded venue, all the kids were really well-behaved. Not weird or robotic, just nicely behaved. Kinda Mayberry-ish.

 

His response was that it seemed seemed very "Stepford Wife-ish", and that it was weird and unnatural that the children should be so well-behaved.

 

Now, we live in a bedroom community of the DC area so we're largely insulated from the behavior of the more urban/densely populated area but seriously - tell me honestly - are the kids out there today really that bad? Despite the frequency with which I wish to sell my children to the gypsies, I also think they're ge

 

I'm seriously not trolling, I'm just trying to compare my experience to his.

 

He, for reference, lives out in Palo Alto, which always seemed like a nice place to me. Happy Californians with more money and nice weather than they know what to do with, etc etc etc. I was surprised that his outlook on kids would be so negative, given my impression of where he lives.

 

Anyone?

[Impish]

Interesting. Well behaved kids are now considered Stepford Wife-ish.

 

At least I know mine are safely normal then :lol:

 

I admit to be somewhat taken aback by your characterization of 'more money than they know what to do with' though. What does that have to do with anything?

[Garga]

Is he pro-homeschooling? Or suspicious of homeschooling? Or doesn't know anything about it?

 

My first opinion of your comments and his replies is that he doesn't really "get" homeschooling, so when you said something nice about the homeschooled kids, his beliefs about homeschooling caused him to consider your comments through an anti-homeschooler filter. So, he jumped to the conclusion that something was wrong with the kids and out popped the comment.

 

It probably isn't that kids are any worse where he is. A lot of times people just blab about how kids are bad, but don't necessarily have examples. It's just something that grown-ups have always done. (Remember that quote from Socrates or Plato or someone, going on and on about how bad kids are "these days.")

[Jean in Newcastle]

There are well-behaved children to be found in every city, in every school situation etc. However, I think the one common denominator you will find are parents who have high standards for their child's behavior. You used to find that more society wide but that isn't as true anymore, I think. In some segments of home school society it is true but as many people can tell you, it isn't homeschool society wide, either. I think it is sad that your friend has such low expectations for how children should behave. To behave well doesn't mean that you have no personality or spark - it means that you have enough self control to be able to interact correctly in society. (Socialization, anyone?)

[lionfamily1999]

I've known parents that believe that kids are SUPPOSED to be little monsters bouncing off the walls and that it is unnatural and wrong to expect them, or force them, to behave like a mini-adult.

[secular_mom]

Okay, the other day I mentioned to a family friend that we'd been to a homeschooling convention and I'd been impressed that, in a crowded venue, all the kids were really well-behaved. Not weird or robotic, just nicely behaved. Kinda Mayberry-ish.

 

His response was that it seemed seemed very "Stepford Wife-ish", and that it was weird and unnatural that the children should be so well-behaved.

 

 

Maybe your comment was off-putting, and he felt put on the defensive.

I can see how someone would think it was directed toward them/their DC. But I don't even know if this guy HAS and DC, LOL.

Or maybe he just doesn't think homeschooling is 'normal', maybe his experience with children has left him with the impression that all children are impulsive all the time. I wouldn't dwell on it.

 

ETA: for clarification, I'm not saying that I agree with the idea of your comment being offensive. It's just that I can 'understand' how others might take it as some sort of comment on their DC's behavior, but that's because I've seen so many people think that the fact that we homeschool is some sort of comment on their decision NOT to homeschool. Does that make sense?

Edited June 14, 2009 by secular_mom
clarification

[amiechoke]

I don't know what to make of him, seriously - he even has (I believe) relatively nice little kids! Bright, curious, reasonably well-behaved... and I don't think he thinks his kids are that out-of-the-ordinary, either.

 

Maybe it's because, given his own family, I was surprised that he found the possibility of large numbers of well-behaved children unusual. I can't understand how you cultivate that mentality. I just assumed that the news of a population of well-behaved kids would be greeted positively, at least.

[ElizabethB]

I admit to be somewhat taken aback by your characterization of 'more money than they know what to do with' though. What does that have to do with anything?

 

 

Actually, I've found, in general, that people with too much money have less well behaved children than someone closer to the median income. Generally, both parents work, feel guilty for not spending time with their children, so they give them a lot of toys but not much time or discipline. They are also more likely to hire a maid and not make their children do chores. There are exceptions, of course, but I've noticed this in general. (Also, for upper income families where the mom stays at home, mom generally is very permissive and there is still not much discipline going on.)

 

There are also regional differences. More people in Alabama and Arkansas seemed to have higher standards for their children than people on the coasts, and also you hear a lot more "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" in these areas.

 

And, I've noticed that military children in general are more likely to be well behaved than their civilian counterparts (although in certain parts of the South, it is about equal.)

 

This is based on my observations of my neighbors and young children in the neighborhood parks of the Northern Virginia/DC area, the Seattle area, the Los Angeles area, Dayton, Ohio (better than the coasts but not as good as the South), Montgomery, Alabama, and Little Rock, Arkansas. (Or, neighbors of friends and family in the Seattle and LA areas.)

[Impish]

I find generalizations based on income or region to be creepy. No offence intended, seriously, but I do...they strike me to be not far at all from generalizations based on race or religion. Maybe I'm just too PC for this kind of discussion, so I'll bow out now.

 

For the record, I think that's a sign of the Apocalypse, or should be. A discussion that I'm too PC for.

:leaving:

[momo9]

I think alot of people think this way about homeschooling parents and theri children. It's very depressing, but I have to admit I do know 1 or 2 families who come across that way. Maybe his perception has alot to do with his experiance of it all.

 

We try to stay well-rounded, not too mainstream, but not out of the park either......its too bad that sometimes I feel like I am trying too hard to fit into what other perceptions of what a homeschooler/homeschooling family SHOULDN'T be. My kids on the other hand are just themselves which is great because that is who they are. They shouldn't have to conform to what others think they should be whether it be in a "real" school atmosphere or out of it.

[Karen in CO]

But how is his "Stepford-ish" comment substantially different than your "Mayberry-ish" comment? Both were generalizing from old tv (or movie) stereotypes derived fictional utopian (or dystopian) towns. Perhaps he was trying to draw your attentian to the inherent flaw of trying to oversimplify any group of people based on irrelevant sterotypes?

 

 

 

:D It is getting late isn't it? I'd better go make more coffee and get back to work.

[ElizabethB]

I find generalizations based on income or region to be creepy. No offence intended, seriously, but I do...they strike me to be not far at all from generalizations based on race or religion. Maybe I'm just too PC for this kind of discussion, so I'll bow out now.

 

 

You haven't lived in enough different places and different neighborhoods!

 

There are definitely differences. Also differences in how people drive.

 

I have lived in too many different places.

 

I don't judge people based on where they live or how much money they make, but I have noticed general differences.

[Kathy in MD]

He may have been exposed to people who DO want robots for children. One of my grandmothers was like that. I used to halfway joke to my dm that "Children are meant to be seen and not heard, and preferably not seen." Opinions were never wanted on adult topics and were squashed quickly and sarcastically. Luckily she did allow us to play in the basement, away from the adults. But there were still times when formal tea was served, and I do mean formal. But that may be what he envisions when someone says a "well behaved child"

[stripe]

There is a certain belief system that it is an important and virtually universal experience to do certain things, for example, to be wildly promiscuous and take large quantities of drugs, and anyone who denies this is odd and out of touch.

 

I have also observed a belief that anyone who obeys authority, or acts in accordance with authority, has no brain, is not thinking for themselves, etc., and those who don't follow authority (even those who are part of a sheep-like group where everyone "rebels" in an identical fashion!) are brilliant, original, freethinking geniuses.

 

So I think the idea is that children who obey have had their spirits squelched and will never lead true lives of interest or discovery. They will just baaaaa and follow their parents, and never amount to anything.

 

There are plenty of women who dislike nice, honest men because they are "too boring" and predictable. Lots of men on death row apparently have more girlfriends and offers than they know what to do with. I guess that's "exciting" and "freethinking."

 

On the other hand, I think it's amusing that today's teenagers and college students report feeling very close to their parents. So much for all the teen angst and so forth. They like to call home and get advice from Mom. Be they tattooed or wearing pocket protectors, or both.

[kalanamak]

Okay, the other day I mentioned to a family friend that we'd been to a homeschooling convention and I'd been impressed that, in a crowded venue, all the kids were really well-behaved. Not weird or robotic, just nicely behaved. Kinda Mayberry-ish.

 

 

I didn't go this year, but last year there were terrors at the boat game. They cut in line non-stop, the poor teen running the show shrugged his shoulders, and hubby, who was with kiddo then 5 finally, after failed attempts at reasoning with them, leaned down and told the pack he would "find them and paddle them" in the parking lot, looking REALLY mean and then they let in our boy. Hubby has big arms and looks like a mountain man.

 

Why would you think kids would be weird or robotic?

[Nicole M]

I don't know what to make of him, seriously - he even has (I believe) relatively nice little kids! Bright, curious, reasonably well-behaved... and I don't think he thinks his kids are that out-of-the-ordinary, either.

 

Maybe it's because, given his own family, I was surprised that he found the possibility of large numbers of well-behaved children unusual. I can't understand how you cultivate that mentality. I just assumed that the news of a population of well-behaved kids would be greeted positively, at least.

 

You know, many people would consider having to bring their small children to a large venue their worst possible nightmare. I would have. I do not like crowds, myself, and having to deal with my littles in a crowd always put me over the edge. He could have been projecting his own discomfort with crowds. Just a guess.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Nicole M

[stripe]

But how is his "Stepford-ish" comment substantially different than your "Mayberry-ish" comment? Both were generalizing from old tv (or movie) stereotypes derived fictional utopian (or dystopian) towns.

I missed this completely last time I read the thread -- this is an excellent point. I personally tire of the "good old days" type of comments -- and I think there's a flip side to the reminiscing. Some people don't want to go back to Jim Crow, which was their reality in those days. Other people felt a need to conform to things they didn't want to do -- for example, wearing those dresses and pearls and baking all those cookies, or spending all day at the office and hiding behind the newspaper at home instead of playing with the kids. I certainly don't think there were any families that looked like mine in any family sitcoms of the 1950s!

 

There are certainly too many stereotypes on all sides.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, I'm presuming he wasn't there and didn't see the kids, so I'm not sure how he can be certain what it seemed like - or why he would even jump to the conclusion that it's weird in any way - unless he's making a biased decision based solely on the fact that they were homeschooled kids.

 

Over the past eleven years of homeschooling here, I've been sitting in social groups on many occasions and stopped to think how good all ages are with each other AND with all the grown-ups who are there. It seems to me a much more natural sort of behaviour as that's what one is more likely to find both within an extended family and in life.

 

I will contrast that with things we do with more traditionally schooled kids through church, scouting, and other groups. In those type situations, I often see kids who do not feel comfortable and will not speak with other kids who are not in their age group, much less adults.

 

In fact, my older son has been back in a private high school the past couple of years and often his friends prefer to ride with me to events. I think it's because I find it hugely weird to drive someone several hours and not speak to them, so we tend to have ongoing conversation for most of that time. In contrast, my son tells me that when the parents of others drive them, they do not speak with them. At all. How weird.

 

I tend to think that many homeschooled children are subjected to many more real life type experiences on a regular basis and are more comfortable in a wider variety of situations than children who are warehoused eight hours a day, five days per week. For heaven's sake, where I live, teacher's can't even walk into a room and garner attention to speak without first going through a series of hand-clapping behaviourial exercises. I find it ridiculous. Will this become standard fare in the workplace of the next couple of decades? Will customers have to clap to get the attention of a worker if they wish to complete a business transaction? Are we becoming trained seals?

 

No, I tend to think that the artificial, unnatural situation is the one created by our mega schools and the warehousing of children, rather than homeschooling....

[Cricket]

I missed this completely last time I read the thread -- this is an excellent point. I personally tire of the "good old days" type of comments -- and I think there's a flip side to the reminiscing. Some people don't want to go back to Jim Crow, which was their reality in those days. Other people felt a need to conform to things they didn't want to do -- for example, wearing those dresses and pearls and baking all those cookies, or spending all day at the office and hiding behind the newspaper at home instead of playing with the kids. I certainly don't think there were any families that looked like mine in any family sitcoms of the 1950s!

 

There are certainly too many stereotypes on all sides.

 

I was having this same conversation with my oldest son the other day. We were in the car and the Rascal Flatts song about Mayberry came on the radio. I pointed out that it is easy to look back on those days and think it was so much better then than we have it now. I think many things about that era were nice: life moved at a slower pace, family seemed more important, neighbors were important, Sunday really was a day of rest (I fight my dh on this. :) This morning he wanted ds to mow. I said Not on Sunday!!). But it had an ugly side too as you pointed out. One of my son's friends is African-American and he couldn't believe it when I told him that his friend wouldn't be able to drink out of the same water fountain as he could if we still lived back then. There is good and bad in any era. One would hope that we could keep the good and change the bad with each generation but it doesn't work that way!

[Perry]

 

In fact, my older son has been back in a private high school the past couple of years and often his friends prefer to ride with me to events. I think it's because I find it hugely weird to drive someone several hours and not speak to them, so we tend to have ongoing conversation for most of that time. In contrast, my son tells me that when the parents of others drive them, they do not speak with them. At all. How weird.

 

I don't think it's weird. I think it's a personality thing. I'm introverted, and having conversations and small talk with people I don't know well is very uncomfortable for me. Having an ongoing conversation for hours in a car would be absolute torture, no matter who it is.

 

But then I was public schooled. Maybe that's what's wrong with me.

[stripe]

One of my son's friends is African-American and he couldn't believe it when I told him that his friend wouldn't be able to drink out of the same water fountain as he could if we still lived back then.

And it is worth keeping in mind that this was only in certain areas, NOT in the entire country.

[TravelingChris]

I attended two large events this week with lots of kids. The first was homeschool soccer and the second was a swim meet. The first had exclusively homeschooled kids and the second had mostly schooled kids with a few homeschooled. Neither group was rambunctious or disorderly. But I take care to try and move into areas where I can expect good behavior from kids. Not a certainly but a higher probablity. I love to research things and that is what I do before we move. This neighborhood , for example, has a very high proportion of well educated parents who expect good grades and good behavior from their children. It also is a more traditional neighborhood without a HOA but with a very strong neighborhood group. None of the kids are zombies or whatever and they are not even the same races or religions. It basically comes from the expectation parents have that their children will strive for success (in whatever form that takes, not necessarily a high income).