I do admit I'm worried that my ds will never write his name on his college papers. But, I guess one F will fix that pretty quick - LOL!

For that age, I would just ask for a "narration about this person". If you haven't heard SWB explain how she narrows down & focuses her dc's narrations, I would highly recommend getting the Writing without Fear CD. It will help you and your child together come up with a well-structured, brief narration.

I disagree somewhat - having been to the principal's office and dismissed as if I were somehow an inferior being. My child was depressed after 3 years of bullying in those moments when teachers can't be there - or have their attention elsewhere in the classroom. There were also moments - I have found at since - that bullying happened right in front of the whole class. You know, bully called my child a f@gg0t during a game of 7-up - and the teacher with the Masters Degree from Harvard, whom the principal guaranteed me could handle *any* bully replied, "Noooow, stop." That's it. No consequences at all. Meanwhile, telling me of course, that all the bullying is going on behind her back. If my son were an adult, and being bullied like that at work, he could quit, or at least be transferred. But, it was basically like sending him to prison to be tortured every day. I admit I was bullied at school as well, and there are times I just don't understand people. But, one thing I like about being an adult is not being forced to stay in anyone's presence who is being a jerk. There are plenty of toxic people out there in the world that I avoid - I don't want or need the aggravation that comes from associating with them in any way. And, I think homeschooling is the only way I can offer that option to my child. Trust me, in this economy, I wish I could've made public school work. I had to close my business to make homeschool work. But, three years later, I have a confident, happy child again. As Master Card would say, that's priceless.

That's great! Good job, Mom!!!!!

Well, you don't need statistics or check-writing to do Algebra, though BJU covered statistics toward the end of its Pre-Algebra. (It was quite hard, and some on the high school board said it was unnecessary. I'm sure they were right; there doesn't appear to be any statistics in Jacobs.) You *do* need decimals, fractions and percents (adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing). That's it. I don't know the best thing to recommend, however.

I guess it matters which district (and which school) you're in! Even though my ds was at one of the top schools in the state, when he was being bullied the worst consequence was the teacher "pulling one of his feathers" (what?!); when *5* feathers were gone then (watch out!) he would have to miss Recess. (oh, the horror!) Frankly, I'm sure by now (it's been a few years) that parents have complained that missing Recess violates their child's civil rights, and now the worst punishment for even the most vile offense involves "losing a feather" ... yeah, if I could go back, I'd definitely teach my kid to hit the bully. (No, I wouldn't. I'm glad I didn't. But, I do like to watch movies where the bad guy really *gets* it in the end.)

Great! I haven't seen the new LA, and even though I ordered the old one (for Core 6), we ended up not using it. I'll be interested to hear how you like it, especially since they had Ruth Beechik evaluate & help revise it. I hope it goes as well for you guys as it did for us~

Sounds like your doing quite well! I chuckled knowingly at your description of your son & his opinion of his writing - LOL! I wonder if there has there ever been a male child who *didn't* think his work was perfect in its imperfection? =) My older son especially resented (resents) having to re-write things. That's where having a pre-writing plan which doesn't require much writing is very helpful - that plan *is* the rough draft. For your plan, you can use a graphic organizer if you'd like, and use keywords and phrases only. I do help my 5th grader get his topic sentence complete. Then, the writing doesn't have to be "re-written", merely checked for spelling, punctuation, that sort of thing. And, occasionally we'll re-work a sentence or two. But - please note - my ***8th*** grader is doing a comparison essay because that was already covered in his R&S. I don't ever assign an essay-type or paragraph-type that hasn't been covered by his writing curriculum. I can't remember off the top of my head what is covered in R&S-6, but I know that comparison and persuasion are *not* covered until 8th grade. Keep up the good work~

#1: I do think R&S teaches the steps of writing, but not as "These are the Steps of Writing" (typed in my big announcer voice - LOL!) But, I put this into practice when we do writing in history or science or literature. It's only natural to first plan what you're going to write about - especially when they hit 5th grade, and are told to write a paragraph about *one* topic, not just a verbose re-hashing of the entire story. Then, after it's written, we proof it, and file it. So, it's not a big, drawn-out process; but lots of little, quick, relatively painless practices. #2: I keep a mental record of the various types of writing each ds has covered (actually, now with two, I may need to tighten up my ship and actually start writing this down!). Then, for most everything they write (esp. w/5th grader), we classify it and talk about how to develop the topic sentence (or how the essay should flow). So, for example, my 8th grader is about ready to write a comparison/contrast paper on the Boxers and the Ghost Dancers. Comparisons were a type of composition he studied in R&S about 5 lessons ago, so he has that lesson to refer back to. My 5th grader is still in developing paragraphs in the order of time or the order of importance, or in steps. So while I'm pre-reading SOTW, I'm really looking for ideas and why people did things, or an opinion he might have which can be supported by reasons in the order of importance. Science just offers tons of ideas for Order of Time paragraphs. I'm not concerned about writing research papers. Whenever my kids look at two different sources for history information, and then synthesize that into one paper, they are using the basic process on a smaller scale. For example, my son's comparison paper mentioned above will require getting information from more than one source. That one may be deep enough that he will find it more time-efficient to take notes, but I haven't felt a need to have him take notes for a paper before. Usually he just absorbs, makes a pre-writing plan, and writes it. WTM assigns 5-6 page research papers in both 9th and 10th grades, in history, science and maybe lit. To each his own, but I think the mini-research papers in R&S (usually two or three lessons - not really a whole chapter), the 3/4 - 1 1/2 page reports we have done in history and science, and the knowledge he will gain in Rhetoric next year before those papers are due will be adequate preparation. #3: I am blessed (?) with very practical "just-the-facts" kind of boys. I, too, look at lists of writing projects such as you mentioned and *wish* my boys would *want* to do those creative sort of things. But, they don't. They *hate* creative assignments. Creative assignments for kids without that artistic flair are *not* fun. And, I know from their public school days (and my own), that those things are easy to do without any learning going on. So, I don't feel guilty for not offering those as assignments. My boys *will* have to write one day - they will only design a board game if that's their talent. If you like them, though, just look online at some teacher's websites Google just about any book, and you'll find *lots* of teacher websites with lists of "alternative book reports". Blessings!

That seems so backward-thinking, when Honda has a plan to cover *all* our energy needs with hydrogen fuel. Kinda scary to think that they could one day be providing all our energy one day - even electric: http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/home-energy-station.aspx (one day I'll learn how to link with "see here" - for now, the whole link will do)

These look great - thank you!

Thanks!

sorry to be so ignorant!

We did the last half of Core 6, and my ds would choose - he could either outline from SOTW or write a narration or biography. Since he didn't even have to ask me what to read, this worked really well. (And, I could just read his writing to know he understood the material.) Some days they don't have SOTW scheduled, then he either skipped writing for that day, or did a narration. (I usually read the Foster (?) books out loud to him - they were confusing for some reason. Those days we usually skipped writing.)

I didn't think you could buy just one subject of BJU. Can you?

:iagree:

Yes! - His books are **beautifullly** illustrated. Definitely keepers for the grand-kids! (my boys were in 3rd and 6th when we read them, btw)

I tell mine the story of when my 9th grade physical science teacher gave us a "review day" for an upcoming test. Then, he said, "Well, study or don't study....Russia's gonna drop the bomb on us before you graduate, anyway." And, then he spent the next 40 minutes or so explaining how the Bible prophecied how the world would end before 1986, and how all the then-present circumstances fit the prophecies. This was in the era of "Red Dawn" (the movie), and all the other "The Bomb has been dropped, what will we do to survive?!" movies (which we watched in school, no less), so it *really, really* upset me. I became very cynical, and very depressed for a long time. But, here we are in 2008, living with our 3 kids in a fairly decent neighborhood 'cause things change. And, one day, things will change again, and then they'll be the ones telling their kids about all the troubles we're currently facing, and how they came through allright.

Well, if I came up with something on my own, it would be SOTW 1-4 in 2 years, and I would probably supplement it with some sort of history encyclopedia if only for the pictures and maps. SL Core 6 & 7 does basically the same thing - the bible study is easily ignored - it is *not* embedded in the history or the literature (Pam SFSOM loves SL and maybe she could help you figure out how she used it?). For ease of *my* mind, I would take advantage of SL's schedule, and then just use their literature and read alouds, too. When we did the last half of Core 6 (thanks, Pam!), it was one of the most enjoyable homeschooling experiences for my kids and me, because the decisions weren't up to me! And, because I wasn't worried about planning, we had lots of family read-alouds at night, when we read selections from the WTM List. Then, last year, when we did SOTW-3, I kept the SL selections as read-alouds. Which worked, too. But, if you really wanted to do the WTM selections, here's some tips: First semester, Ancients: Instead of getting the "Tales of" and "Tales from" various countries, just search your library database for "Folktales, (insert country)". You will find LOTS of BEAUTIFUL picture books that will have the same stories. Use these as read-alouds - read one each day. (You might include Aesop's fables here, too.) Then, ds can concentrate on reading: The Golden Goblet (good adventure book for a boy) various Greek myths (I think we used D'Aulaires - was probably recommended by someone here. But, I would choose either that or *one* of the four mentioned in WTM. He can always read more if he wants to.) One book on Iliad (we used Black Ships before Troy) One book on Odyssey (definitely use Odysseus by Geraldine McCaughrean) You will be sick of Greek epics at this point - maybe read one of the historical fiction books like Outcast by Rosemary Sutcliff In Search of a Homeland: The Story of the Aeneid (We tried reading the Church one out loud. It was horrid!) Do the Last Days of Socrates if you can. The Caesar's Gallic Wars is still the book that my son compares all books to, "It wasn't as boring as that Caesar book... but almost." (I liked it!) Insert the Cleopatra book (if it's at your library) wherever it fits into SOTW ***** I don't mind helping you narrow down the other years, if you'd like...I'm just recuperating from surgury, and we don't have TV. Besides, it's helping me plan for next year! Just let me know~

Several are using it on the high school board. There are a couple of recent threads - even a mid-year exam in one. I'm debating between using Spielvogel, History of the Ancient World, or thegreatbooks.com for 9th grade next year. Honestly, unless ds really just loves HoAW, I doubt it will be the winner - because it is just *so* detailed (over 700 pages). It might be he will like the detail (the story of Hammurabi's rise to power that isn't in any other source, for example), IDK.

:iagree: Well said!

bump

in the following thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=654571#poststop I know some of us are missing the old boards; But - here is your chance to make *this* board a little friendlier, a little more "hey, we're in this together". This poor mom really needs advice, but her post is becoming lost. Please take a moment to link, and see if you can help! Thanks, Rhonda

I heard SWB speak in Atlanta this summer, and she no longer recommends outlining from KHE, but using it to take notes. And, that the DC would write down *every* date from KHE into the timeline. Then, after notes (and I guess looking at maps - she recommended Geographica, I think?) the student evaluates whether or not there is something there *he* thinks is interesting enough to investigate further. If so, she put a lot of emphasis on finding primary sources - mostly online at fordham.edu since that's free. She really made the case that reading primary sources helps the logic stage student learn how history is "done". (Just like in science, the purpose in logic stage is to learn how the various sciences come to conclusions via experiments.) Anyway, she mentioned that *if* the student wants to read further about a subject than the KHE, then you should also choose a 4-6 paragraph section of a non-fiction book to outline. (We did try HO, and their outlining was even worse than having no help with the outline at all, imo.) Probably an encyclopedia article would be good, and handy to find at home. I don't really remember her saying to write reports or essays (but I *am* just going on memory here). I do remember that on the Writing without Fear CD she mentions briefly that the outlines *are* the reports. IDK - that seems to contradict WTM, but so does her new emphasis on not outlining the KHE. I think I deleted all this before because I re-read your post, and it didn't really sound like you would think this was do-able. BUT - what if you tried this between Thanksgiving and Christmas? (If it doesn't work, then you can always go back to HO in January, right?) Day One Assignment: Read a two-page spread in KHE. Take notes - not on everything, just the big ideas. Write down all dates in timeline, and copy any map on the spread (you can use the maps in HO). Decide - what, if anything, do I want to know more about? Day Two Assignment, if there is something more: Do an online search about chosen topic, and read for 30 minutes. Can you find a primary source? Fill in a primary source evaluation if possible. Or, if just reading *about* the topic, write a short report that answers the reporter's questions - or, write a two-point outline. You could use the library, but I'm figuring if you work, online searches would be more doable. (Yeah, you and he might have to sit down the night before and search together the first few times - but my ds was very excited to find a short "How to be successful" article by Andrew Carnegie by himself. And - in his "I'm such a grown-up now" voice told me he would still need to examine the company records to know for sure if he really liked the guy or not - LOLOLOL!!!) This is also where the routine breaks down - because if this is something that really, really interests him, you need to let him have time to really explore it. It also doesn't *have* to always be a report or an outline. And, sometimes he might want to read a biography instead of a short article. This is where you are teaching without a net, and are certain you are going to fail no matter what you do!!!! Just keep breathing, and remember that SWB said you would feel this way, and that's good! You *want* him to go in-depth, because that will fuel his fire for independent learning. Assignment, Day 2, if nothing from Day 1 interested him: REad the next two-page spread in KHE. Take notes, put dates in timeline, copy map. Decide: is there anything *here* that interests me? (Wash, rinse, repeat) And, remember, he's not going to have time to do extra work for *every* spread. You could stack the deck when it comes to extra reading, by using the suggestions at the end of the history chapter in WTM. They are mostly geared toward American History, but they do include primary sources on a number of topics. You could either just keep a correlated list in your files somewhere, and make the assignments when appropriate; or note the books, etc. in your KHE when you want ds to do those before resuming his KHE routine. I think if you all can talk about his assignments, then this could work. It might take a few weeks to work out being able to trust each other, and feel confident that, yes, he's really capable of doing this and making some decisions without you. (Ha - I'm such the hypocrit!!!!! LOL!!! - But, really, if I wasn't trying to finish SOTW 4 this year, this is what I would shoot for. Next year, next year....) My other suggestion would be, if you really want to drop the notebooking entirely, that you add in SL's historical fiction and read alouds from either Core 6 or 7. My kids learned so much from doing that. I hope that helps - I'm afraid it's a bit like a train-wreck!

Doesn't MFW have history and science stuff already planned? (Doesn't MFW have a planned grammar program, too?) Do you just not like it? Or, do you just need to sleep until after Thanksgiving? And, then start fresh - just three more weeks til Christmas! Then two more weeks of rest... And, this isn't to judge you - but why do you have three math curriculum? Just choose one, the easiest one for you! - and do it - just a little every day. And, maybe look at SWR? Is it too teacher-intensive for you right now? Really, I would choose the easiest things, the least teacher-intensive things, if I had the number of children you have. So, Maybe if you pared your list to MFW, a math, and a spelling - would that seem more do-able? And could you make it 4-day schedule, so you always have at least one guilt-free rest day a week? And, don't discount being well rested. Maybe you all just need a week of the kids watching videos and you resting and cleaning (if that clears your head like it does mine) and getting a fresh look on things. (You don't seem like the "use the TV as a baby-sitter" type mom, so I'm sure one week won't hurt.) I'm praying for you~