I already have separate history assignments for my ds's - who are technically both in "logic" stage this year (5th and 8th). And, they don't necessarily work on history at the same time during the day. We have had Read Aloud Time together in the past, and we do have family discussions about things. But, usually my oldest works fairly independently (too independently, sometimes!); and my younger needs lots of hand-holding as we move from simply narrating to outlining and writing coherent paragraphs. I didn't ever think my oldest would be able to work independently, either! But, here we are. At some point, he figured out the routine, and then he realized he could work faster if Mom wasn't helping him. Big motivator! Also, the older they get the more independent reading and writing they do, and the longer their assignments take to complete. So, the times when both my boys are working - reading, writing, or doing math - I play with my daughter or (yikes!) even clean. Those will be the times in a few years when I sneak in her math or reading or history or whatever. I'm sure the solution will come to you when the time arrives =)

Do you want a different spine? Or, maybe a textbook? I was going to suggest using KHE to just take notes, and let your ds decide after each two-page spread if anything caught his interest - use what interests him for his extra reading. If nothing, you just keep going in KHE. But, it sounds like the KHE reading is really bogging you down. There is a textbook called "Journey Across Time" that is written for middle schoolers that is secular. Do you think something like that (maybe paired with historical fiction) would help? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Journey+across+time

When my dd gets into 1st grade, we'll be in Year 3 of the history rotation. What I'm most likely going to do is use the Usborne History book - possibly even the white one with blue lettering (the old one) for her spine, rather than SOTW. And, supplement with lots of picture books from the library - there will be tons and tons of library books about culture and everyday life and simple biographies, as well as books that will deal with war in a non-frightening way. You can easily use SOTW with your older one, while using Usborne with the younger (or both) - and the Activity Guide will give you the corresponding pages. Then, when you get back to Ancients, start SOTW with your younger. btw - my boys are three years apart, and I often have to do lessons separately with them even when they are using the same materials (both are using SOTW-4 this year) because they just are not on the same level of thought. It is more time-consuming for me, but I prefer to meet each of them where they are. It makes for more peace for me. YMMV

Sue, I use the WTM Literature lists (Required & supplemental) for literature, and primary sources & other books for history. I've been trying to have my dc find their own primary sources and extra history reading this year, and it's been hit and (mostly) miss - LOL. Before, I've always used the lists in both the grammar & logic history sections to assign extra reading. I think the lists in WTM are less overwhelming than the Activity Guide. There is enough there, but not too much - you know, not *everything* has to be added to with extra reading. So, anyway, after reading SWB's post I just finished going through the WTM History chapters to see what's available at the library, and what to order from amazon! I am suddenly panicking about having not covered the Civil War in nearly enough detail.....

I think writing is one area that you just about can't teach yourself. I mean, if that's your talent, then you probably could; but if you can't, then.... When I hear of all the methods and systems in place at even the high school level to ensure that parents and students know exactly what is expected when (emails and websites and phone conferences), I wonder if we homeschoolers expect too much independence too soon. It sounds from your post that the real problem you are having is getting him to write about what he's read. I think I would try doing the assignments with him until he knows the pattern, and knows what you expect. If he's like my 8th grader pretty soon you'll hear, "OK, Mom, I know how to do this now. Just let me go do it, please." Best wishes!

Kate, Do you have a link? I'm looking to cover physics next semester with my 5th grader, but I'm planning to just do one semester. I was thinking about getting a kit, and adding the Usborne and Visual encyclopedias. (Oh, yeah, and the Critical Thinking in Science book I just *had* to have - LOL!) Do you think the physics kit is too much for an entire year? or, did you mean the BJU would be too much? ******** On a different note altogether: I have been perusing the old boards getting ready for 9th grade ancients next year. And, something you posted there has put a bug in my bonnet - loosely, about historical fiction helping you to own a time period or a person. I think you mentioned one of the pharoahs specifically (not Hatshepsut - oh, I can't remember his name!) Anyway, I'm wondering if you would share your favorite "really good books" for high school ancients. I'm playing with the idea of using historical fiction rather than the Penguin or Ponting's world history books for "extra reading". (So, this wouldn't be taking the place of Great Books, but rather helping to make history more alive - and I may end up choosing to use an easier spine than Spielvogel's Western Civ - haven't decided.) I saved a copy of your Middle Ages syllabus from your blog. Oh, my. If I could, I would move to Seattle just to join your co-op!! Any chance you have one for Ancients as well? Thanks! Rhonda

Today, he copied all the problems onto his paper before he started answering them, because looking at all the other problems in the book overwhelms him. And just copying the problems took 30-40 minutes! I *have* copied the problems down for him in the past - I felt guilty that my older ds didn't have to copy his down. And, it's definitely neater than circling problems in his book. But, then he has trouble finishing the test on time. Maybe I should just chuck the tests? (or take two days?) Thanks for your post!

I do this quite often, but I think in trying to satisfy my parents' desire to pick up homeschooling for me until Thanksgiving (having surgury Wed.), I knew that *they* would never see the value in that. I know they'd be thinking he's just being lazy, and sometimes I *do* think that myself, but for some reason I think that the act of handwriting actually interferes with his thinking. which reminds me, I wanted to pick up a pencil-holder thingy!! So, thank you for letting me know I'm not the only one who does this, and that there are brighter days ahead.

I just hope you recognize that as quite an accomplishment, as well as the "going deep" that you say you are looking for. I wouldn't dismiss his music experiences simply because someone (anyone) hasn't deemed them "academic". I would revel in the experience and enjoy it (I'm sure you do!). The worst thing you could do is to compare your academic experience to someone who loves or is gifted at some academic subject as much as your dc loves music. They will never know the joy of what you experience, you know?

Thanks, Colleen! I think this has come to a head because the only way I could talk my parents out of homeschooling my kids for two weeks (they pick them up tomorrow) would have been to insult and hurt them. Can't have that! I am trying not to beat myself up too badly, but I do feel like I have *really* let the kids slide, and I'm just embarrassed. I think maybe I'll have them do Math facts for two weeks - maybe the drills in the back of the book - and then convert to trying to do the whole lesson when I'm feeling better. I'll probably have more questions for you then! Wish I could give you a hug!

If that isn't going deeply into something, then please tell me what is! I was a piano performance major in college, and even *I* don't find the time (anymore) to practice 30 minutes a day, much less 1.5 hours!!!! OTOH, you will know when dc wants to go deeply into something, because he'll ask about it, and you'll help him find the answer to whatever it is. Trust yourself. (And, some kids *are* naturally more - or less - inquisitive than others.) I wouldn't sweat it.

I guess that is my dilemma. I feel like I *should* be doing more because he *knows* his facts if you catch him off guard. If you just interrupt the dinner conversation, and ask him any isolated fact, the answer just zips out. But when he's doing his Math, it is *agony* waiting for him to logic-out the answer. I don't understand why this is so, other than he feels pressured by me (the mean mom/teacher!) during math. And, neither more work nor less work really seems to have an effective cure. On a practical note (to anyone who might read): Do you use the Teacher's book to teach the lesson? I've been reading his book, helping him do the first one or two in each line, and then having him finish the lines on his own. (And, we do some of each type of Review question together before that.) I'm sure I probably read that was how some Math-Mogul used it - LOL! But, I'm thinking maybe I should do the oral drill, and teach the lesson from the book - but then, IDK - it seems like that would take even more time than what we're doing. I do like the idea of assigning the different sections at different times. I used to do that when my oldest did Abeka in 5th grade - actually, we had a separate drill time as well. If you could share your daily teaching strategy, and about how much time it takes you (esp. if you do the teacher's lesson rather than just read the student book), that would be very helpful. Thanks, Rhonda

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and I just can't find that anywhere. I don't think it would work for the lessons about factoring and multiples, because the problems build on each other (use your answers from #2 to answer #3, etc.). But I will look again - maybe I just overlooked something. Thanks!

I do wish it were set up as a workbook - but then, when my oldest used ABeka, which *was* a workbook, I complained because the numbers were too tiny, his place values never lined up, and we ended up using graph paper anyway. (I think I'm just not likely to be appeased anytime soon - LOL!)

Well, it doesn't sound like a consensus - but, I know we'd be doing Math for 3 hours or more if we tried to do it all. He does them correctly, just very slowly. And, he gets overwhelmed (and therefore works even more slowly) the more problems there are to do. Thanks for your feedback, everyone. I may change our set-up (not the curriculum) after Christmas.

(((Colleen))) I'm so sorry. I'm not really very good at dealing with conflict directly. And, during certain times of the month, I'm sure I make even less sense than your mother! I am pretty sure there is *something* bothering *her* about the holidays in general. (maybe having children who won't come all at the same time and at least pretend like they're in a Publix commercial?) So, what I would appreciate if I were her would be a phone call reminding me about the kids' play, and would it still be ok if you stayed at her place Wednesday night? (said as if you *know* that it is ok, you're just being polite) And, then just see where that goes. You might try telling her you know she probably has everything under control, but if there *is* anything she needs for you to do, just let you know. fwiw, my parents are getting to that certain age when they are just rude sometimes! And, I'm sure it would be funny if it didn't cut so close. Like you, I want for my kids to have and love their grandparents. So, I grin and bear it, and hope that one day we'll laugh over it. I pray you have a happy and blessed holiday!

I just finished planning for the next two weeks, and the last lesson (5th grade, btw) said that due to the lesson being so short, the teacher should probably ADD some problems. Oh, my. word. My son would faint!!!!!! *please* tell me I haven't lost my mind and that you skip problems, too. (Or, don't do all the oral drill - or *something!!!*) And, If I have lost my mind - and I don't doubt that I have - and I have been a Math-mom-wimp and desperately need to change my ways .... please be gentle. :bigear:

Librarian Mom, I'm so thrilled! I was brought up in, and currently attend, a Christian church (and after looking at your link, I know you'll know what I mean by that!). Too cool. One of our next big projects is to start writing to prospective colleges to ask about admissions for homeschoolers. I admit I haven't been whole-hearted in this effort ever since I realized this decision (if it comes to fruition) will mean that ds won't be living at home! (And, frankly, I think I just know too much of the goings-on at our local Christian college to be very excited about that possibility.) Your link will certainly help us get some much needed "oomph" to get going in the right direction again! (Doubly so since there is the possibility of a bi-vocational major!!) If you think of anything specific to someone in the Restoration Movement, then please pm me. Thanks again! Rhonda

Wish I could rep you! Thanks for your help - I am one relieved mama!

I was going to post, then I saw the "Related Threads" box down at the bottom of the page. I think more details than you could possibly want are in those threads. There are so many ways to use SOTW. None of them are wrong. One aside comment: you may find that you have to use SOTW differently, or even at different times, for your two oldest. If I remember right they are 6th and 4th? That doesn't seem like a huge spread age-wise. But if your oldest has hit puberty, and is beginning to think more abstractly, while your youngest is still thinking concretely, then you may find that what interests one simply doesn't interest the other. It's not you, or the subject matter necessarily, just the older one may find the activities in the AG baby-ish, while the younger one isn't really ready for analysis & discussion of why things happened (reading between the lines) or extended writing. Make sense? hth, Rhonda

Thanks for the link!

due to my own physical problems this year, Latin has sometimes gotten pushed aside. We are on Week 9 of the MODG syllabus that covers Units 1-7. I have been feeling *very* guilty about this, as I know the last thing my ds wants to do over the summer is Latin - LOL. So, your post is very encouraging. But I'm curious - if you had a student who had only completed through Unit 5, what would you plan for the following year? I pulled out the MODG syllabus, and it looks like - if we can make it through Unit 5, which seems doable - that next year (ds will be in 9th) we could do their Latin I essential. That would review what we've done this year (which might be boring), but it would get us through the rest of First Year Latin by the end of 9th grade. And, that would qualify as Latin II on a transcript, right? Or, would you just pick up with Unit 6 (I could still use MODG) and continue on to ???? Thank you so much! Rhonda

Ok - I think the first question is sort of implied in the WEM questions. I guess I am just feeling compelled not only to describe what *I* think his message is, but what the world has labeled it? Do you think the label is necessary? And, I guess it would be pretty easy to add the other questions in to WEM, too. (Maybe they're there, as well - it's been a while since I worked through our lit for this year, and I didn't do the Rhetoric questions.) Thanks for the info on the TtC Worldviews class. I have TtC here, so I'll have to look that up. Thanks! Rhonda