Thanks, ladies, for assuring me that I'm not just being ungrateful! My 3yo is melting down ~ I will check back later!

Seriously, my Mom told me to pack up the kids and their school books and they'll pick them up Nov. 11 and homeschool them til Thanksgiving. (These are the parents who have never supported me in anything....:001_huh:) Part of me wonders with a chuckle if they just want to see if we *really* do school..... and part of me gets of glimmer of devilish glee imagining my Dad trying to figure out R&S English 8 and Henle Year One... (tho', he did teach me Algebra, and I'm sure that will go well) and part of me is really, really worried. My kids are the average grand-kids and have to compete with their only-child cousin who taught herself to read at 3yo, and who greatly skewed my parent's perceptions of what is reasonable to expect from an average child. So, do I find a way to gracefully refuse? Do I just send library books? Do I send part but not all? The 8th grader is fairly independent, but the 5th grader - oh my! WWYD? Rhonda

Have you seen the Evan-Moore books for Math? I have no personal experience with them - only saw that another homeschool kid was using them at ds's martial arts last year. Here's a link: http://www.evan-moor.com/Title.aspx?CurriculumID=4&SeriesID=9&TitleID=24&EmcID=24 hth, Rhonda

Your girls are so young, and there are so many wonderful library books for you all to be reading together, I would just enjoy Usborne for a few years. Have fun! Rhonda

then I gave up, and we did DandyLion Logic and this year are doing Intro to Logic. BUT - the thing that really got to me about the Critical Thinking books was the subject matter being so far beyond my ds's life experiences at 12yo. Things like high school graduation requirements, driving experiences, taxes, etc. I don't remember specifics but I do remember trying to explain "this is the way the world works" a lot! My current 5th grader (11yo) is doing Mind Benders and Building Thinking Skills-2. For 6th grade, I'm planning on doing the DandyLion Logic, Thinking Toolbox, and Fallacy Detective. In 7th and 8th we'll do the Intro to Logic and Intermediate Logic. (Although, so far my 8th grader is doing fairly well completing the Intro to Logic in one semester....) Best wishes! Rhonda

Dittos, Dittos, Dittos!!!!! Unless he's been talking to one particular "friend", ds appreciates the fact that we homeschool. But, he is adamant about saying that homeschool or public school, either way, he *doesn't* *like* school! He'll do it, and he usually does it fairly cheerfully, but he insists he doesn't enjoy it. Rhonda

Hey! I'm sorry - I thought I had posted before - Anyway... Good news re: logic - on a CD I have from SWB made this summer (but I'm not sure where - it *wasn't* the same as what I heard here in Atlanta), she recommends choosing "something" from Critical Thinking Press in whatever area really interests your child. So, with the Reading & Science & Math Detectives, you are right on track! We really liked the Logic Ancients list for literature! I haven't used the other items you mentioned - though we did try History Odyssey Middle Ages. It was too overwhelming for *my* ds to do independently (which was what I was hoping for). But, hopefully, your mileage will vary! Are you still looking for a Math? Abeka is kind of like a workbook - it is designed for 5th graders to write in the book. But, we often ended up using graph paper, which kind of defeated the purpose. Best of luck! Rhonda

I'm sad to see you deleted your message. =( I was just thinking last night how much more difficult my younger ds's 5th grade *seems* than my oldest's. The jump into Logic stage expectations was much more of a jolt than I anticipated, and I wonder if I was really just too easy on him in 4th grade (ahem!). I guess I expected the jolt with my oldest, because we pulled him out of public school mid-5th grade. I'd be curious to know if other moms of new-to-logic-stage students are feeling a bit - idk, maybe .... incompetent? btw - I know that my younger ds is *so* much ahead of where my oldest was at his age, and I know that with the same baby steps, he'll get to where his older brother is now. But, I still feel nervous - like I forgot to show up for a final exam and I'm going to ruin him somehow - LOL! Anyway, I'd love to talk about your first logic stage year! I bet others would, too. Rhonda

I know all the parents of girls will think, "So what?" but I just wanted to post how much easier writing paragraphs has become since my 5th gr ds has covered the outlining lessons in R&S-5. I didn't even do the lessons to true mastery, since we are only outlining the main idea of each paragraph in history (OOP KF). Then, off the top of my head, I wrote out on a sheet of paper: I. A. B. C. D. It was my intention to fill this out *with* him after he had read SOTW, and then let him use it to write his paragraph. But he obviously found it (Wednesday), and knew what to do because it was all filled out when I next saw it! So, now he has created two more outlines on his own. (He must think this is easier than writing a paragraph.) The great thing is that today he did an outline unasked. We tweaked it a bit to give it a good conclusion, and then he wrote his paragraph. (You know, more than 3 sentences - an actual *real* paragraph that flows, even - yay!) I was hoping to use it as dictation (also not a strong suit around here), but gave that up because my 3yo dd wanted to sing and would not be stopped! =) I just wanted to share because even though I have tried to explain to him that he should only be writing about one thing (a person, event, or place), he just didn't get it until those outlining lessons. Maybe this will help someone~ Rhonda

if you want to use the KHE, it *usually* has the same info in it. However, they have added extra information that used to be in a side-bar timeline. So, you will have to pre-read to do this, but you (as the parent) can usually tell when the KHE devolves into sentences which are merely dates and events. Just cross them out. My kids do not work very independently, yet, so if I were doing it, I would just read the KHE with them, and when those sentences come up, point out how they mar the flow of the underlying essay, then cross them out. (My 8th grader could probably handle me crossing them out ahead of time, but I think my 5th grader would be so confused, history would be over for the day!) Or, honestly, SWB's newest recs regarding the KHE is to use it to take notes, not to outline. Then, write down every date in your timeline. Then, *IF* the dc wants to read further, outline from another book (a 3-5 paragraph section!!! Not the whole book or chapter!). Or, do a primary source that week. Even if you do just "take notes", it would seem that listing the main idea and the supporting details would be a part of that. You just really have to become okay with leaving things out. (fwiw, I'm working *really*, *really* hard on this one!!!!) hth, Rhonda

We are doing Physical Science this year, and we did General last year. I find my ds doesn't really learn by writing. I don't have him write anything but lab reports and the Study Guide. BUT, I quiz him orally every day on the On Your Own questions, the definitions, the Study Guide questions that apply to the material he's covered, and the Module Summary (in the back of the Physical Science book). As we discuss, I give him hints, like the "spheres" are in reverse alphabetical order. And, I can teach him how to phrase his thoughts correctly, "No, a jet stream is not a when" kind of thing. I know this really defeats the independent student feature of Apologia, but *all* of our subjects are pretty much like this, so I've just accepted it. :001_smile: Rhonda

This will probably help *you* more than your ds, but... What helped/helps me sometimes is to find the "details" that seem to be elaborating on the same idea, and then ask, "What is that idea?" *That* is the main idea of the paragraph, even if the paragraph doesn't explicitly state that idea. Sometimes the main idea is implied, sometimes it is used as the last sentence in the previous paragraph (as a transition), and sometimes it is used as the first sentence in the next paragraph (as a transition). I also am constantly asking my 5th grader, "What do you think is the most important idea of this paragraph?" and try to get away from, "What is the topic sentence?" because you really *want* the outline to be in his own words. And then, even though we aren't writing down the sub-points yet, I'll talk him through them if we have time. If you can find what will one day become the sub-points, that will help you not feel guilty about not including that info on your outline. When I look back at my oldest's outlines from 5th grade, I realize I often pushed him to summarize the info into one sentence, thinking that info was oh-so-important - (groan!) I guess the trade-off is that the summaries we're doing in R&S 8th will be easier - LOL! hth a bit Rhonda

Can you guys not see by now that you all are dealing with two different definitions of wealth? One definition is relative, and loosely paraphrased as: "Able to buy whatever you (I) want without too much thought." The other is: "Not needing to work, because your accumulated assets are earning you enough money without your continuing efforts - and still, you are able to buy whatever you want without too much thought." So, by the first definition, $250k is (for most people) "wealthy", even though that wage-earner still has to go out and earn that wage every day. But it would really take years of saving the majority of that $250k in order to build an accumulation of assets that would pay you $250k/year even after you quit working - and it would only be *after* that lump sum was accumulated that the person would truly be "wealthy" if you consider the second definition. Personally, I come down on the side of "if it all goes away if you can't get to work, then it isn't wealth". Not that I can't understand calling certain working-class people "wealthy". I'm sure I have, and will continue to do so - but only in the relative sense of the word. =) Rhonda

Sadly, I must admit that my kids are much less peer-oriented than I! What I have found fascinating is that, though it is obviously a "parenting" book, the principles aren't "parenting" principles. They are simply the basic principles that govern all relationships. Now if only I could find someone to re-parent me! (and hopefully move me to Provence, no?) Rhonda

Yes - the Set I exercises are review. (and very helpful around here!) hth, Rhonda ps - There are also chapter reviews, but they aren't cumulative.

but Thank You! I don't know what else to say - but Wow! Eye-opening and encouraging at once. My dh's philosopy of life so blends with this book, and I have always been drawn to that (obviously, I married him!), and yet resisted it out of fear. I can't tell you how comforting it has been to read this book! dd's calling~ Rhonda ps - If you know of any similar books, please let me know

I have ds's - 5th and 8th. This is our first time through the rotation, so we are doing SOTW-4 this year, too. Frankly, there is so much to cover in SOTW and Kingfisher, that I find it hard to add very much! I am adding in "The Making of America" by Robert D. Johnston. It is recommended in WTM, and it does help to cover more of the social and political happenings of America. I just kind of throw it in whenever it's appropriate. And, a few times I have devoted a whole week to "catching up with America" with it. Maybe someone else will chime in~ Rhonda

I have 8th ds, 5th ds, and a 3dd. Because we started hs'ing late, we are still enjoying SOTW (year 4 this year). I know my 3yo is much younger than your 6.5yo's - LOL! But, she still loves reading the picture books that correlate to whatever the boys are learning. I (gulp!) don't even need the Activity Guide to find them. They just come up when I do a search at the library. Since there are so many books at our library that aren't in the AG, and so many books in the AG that *aren't* in our library - well, it's just easier to just search by names, events, keywords of the chapter and accept whatever our library has. (Of course, I can check out 75 books per person, and request them online, and have them sent to our local library for pick up.) We use the literature lists from WTM, though that means I do have to read (or at least skim) through the books. I do still get the Activity Guide for the maps Well...sorry, I have diverted from my original thought - that the problem isn't really one of the books taking a long time to find. But, that you are doing two different years at once. (I always find books for all levels with one library search.) I know you probably felt like you *had* to do Year One with the youngers to correlate with your friend. But, couldn't they just get together and do the projects even though they aren't studying Ancients? I just don't see how switching to TOG will solve the problem of doing two different time periods. But, if you can trust yourself, and just use whatever your library has, rather than feeling bound to the Activity Guide, SOTW can definitely work as a spine for all your kids. Blessings, Rhonda

A non-curriculum help would be to google "how to write a paragraph". There are (or, were a few years ago!) several really neat sites that teach about topic sentences, unity within a paragraph, and how to order or develop the paragraph (order of time or order of importance). I find I need to help my 5th grade ds come up with topic sentence, and think through the supporting details before he writes his narrations if I want a *really* good paragraph. hth, Rhonda

I remember him from the early 90's, when the stock market hit 3,000 (hmmm...maybe 5,000?) IDK - only remember being told never to invest in such an "over-inflated" market unless it was money we kiss good-bye. =) Rhonda

thanks, Janice! So....how are your plans going for "doing your own thing"? If anyone can, it's you! I am trying to ignore how completely ignorant I am in comparison as I'm beginning to launch into 9th grade materials. Ah, well....ignorance is bliss, no? =) Rhonda

When my oldest came home in 5th grade, the book which "hooked" him was called Be a Perfect Person in Three Days, by Stephen Manes. I read it out loud to him - just us on the sofa. Hoping this link isn't too long: http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Person-Just-Three-Days/dp/0440413494/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223268745&sr=8-1 Then I used a list off of Listmania at Amazon titled "Great Books for Boys aged 9-12". But, my computer crashed, and I no longer have that link, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to search Amazon to find it! It was filled with books that are wonderful books, but not quite so "high brow" as the average WTM-Mom desires for her progeny ;). We didn't use them for school, but as "Mom reads enough to get dc's interest, then hands him the book and says - you read it!" But, if you go to the link, there is a section titled "Customers Who Bought this Item Also Bought". Scroll through there, and you'll see quite a few. Also, search for Chocolate Fever, and scroll through the ones there, too. Oh, and my favorite read-aloud of all time is definitely The Tale of Despereaux. It has everything a 10yo boy will love, though it is too good for mom to miss! HTH, Rhonda

We started R&S 6 after one year of ABeka (5th grade) - which was our first year hs'ing. When we started hs'ing, ds didn't know what a noun or a verb was. He is now in 8th grade, and doing well with R&S 8th. BUT - - I noticed a *HUGE* jump going from the 6th grade book to the 7th grade. (And, a big jump going from Abeka 5th to R&S 6th.) R&S-7 assumes mastery of Predicate Adjectives, Pred Nom, IO, etc. The "review" at the beginning of the book is not sufficient to bring a 7th grader to mastery - too many concepts are presented too quickly. And, it seemed like there was never "breathing room" in R&S 7. What I mean is that there was rarely a "pure review" lesson where we could say, "OH, yeah, I remember doing this last year. Easy-peasy." There was *always* something new (and once you hit adjective and adverb clauses - Whoa! Watch out!) Not sure what your answer is. I'm sure you can't re-order curriculum. If I had to make R&S-7 work in your situation, I would probably spread each lesson out over 3 (or 4) days. I would consider each lesson "point" as its own lesson - maybe you could do two points a day, but I wouldn't assume so. Probably you will have to stop and fill in the gaps as you go (oh, I have plenty of unpleasant memories of that - tho' with math!). Speaking of math, though, the fact is that the kids will *have* to know the "basic facts" of grammar before going on to more advanced concepts. When I had to fill in gaps in math, sometimes I just had to leave the lesson, and teach on the fly what had to be learned before we could proceed. Other times, we just drilled and drilled and reviewed every day at a separate time from the lesson. I know it's not fun, and you have my deepest sympathy! Hmmm...maybe Mary Daly's diagramming book would be a good supplement? Blessings, Rhonda

I'm just continuing thinking out loud here.... I could see *me* reading it over the summer as a quick refresher/enhancer. I'm certainly no expert, that's for sure! But I'm just wondering if it's "enough" for my high schooler to refresh his 5th grade Ancients memories of such non-western civilizations via the DK book (it's a *beautiful* book, btw! Bet my younger ds (will be 6th) will want it instead of Kingfisher!). Not to imply that one culture is "better" than another - but obviously western thoughts and influences and philosophies are more subtly interwoven into the fabric of my everyday life than those of non-western traditions. There are just so many things that *can* be studied, the problem is there is only so much time. (Especially with a ds who isn't what I'd call "academically minded".) I guess a part of me might be relieved at knowing it's ok to not even *try* to do it all - LOL! Thanks for chatting! Rhonda

I'm not really planning - just looking things over, still. But, I'm wondering, if we only read the sections that apply directly to the book we're reading, won't that mean some sections won't be read at all? For example, since there's nothing about Ancient Egypt on the WTM Ancients Lit list, will we just never read that section of the Spielvogel? Is that one of the "non-western" places we should be sure to read about in the DK History of the World book? Or, Did you read them just to know for sure you had covered everything? Just needing someone to bounce this off of! Thanks~ Rhonda